[Surly Official Firing Squad] David Pierce Has Left The Building - FIRED

[Tex Long 4393]

Just now, Royale with cheese said:

"I washed it down with some snakebite remedy, which I always keep handy. Only, however, after first being bitten by a snake, which I also always keep handy." -- W. C. Fields

As good an excuse as any.

Fields is also on record as complaining that the African safari he went on was a failure of a vacation, because just a few days into the trek, the bearers lost the entire supply of whiskey in a river-crossing, and the group had nothing but food and water the rest of the way.

[The_Great_Hornsby 3236]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I’m just ready to move on. The excuses, the what-ifs, the hoping for better. We aren’t a top 10 program right now which is why CDC will make a change 

This is where I am at. I'll reserve for final judgement after the regional concludes today or tomorrow. But if CDC wants to make a change, I am okay with it. But we shouldnt fire him unless we have a great option lined up. 

[Tex Long 4393]

3 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I’m just ready to move on. The excuses, the what-ifs, the hoping for better. We aren’t a top 10 program right now which is why CDC will fucking well had best make a change 

More better.

[jimmyjazz 45919]

59 minutes ago, Js1 said:

We aren’t a top 10 program right now which is why CDC will make a change 

This is a perspective I can get behind.  CDC made the standard clear.  While I don't think he's irrational in the sense that he would (hypothetically) fire a coach like Jerritt Elliot for a down year next year, he has to consider where the baseball program stands right now, which will almost surely hinge on 2 straight years w/o reaching the CWS.  Is that unacceptable?  Eh, it's not good.  Texas should expect a program that is dominant enough to warrant a top 16 national seed with the perks that come along with it; namely, a regional with 3 lesser teams to beat.  Having to beat one of the best teams in the country twice to advance to the Supers is a pretty big red flag.

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

10 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

This is a perspective I can get behind.  CDC made the standard clear.  While I don't think he's irrational in the sense that he would (hypothetically) fire a coach like Jerritt Elliot for a down year next year, he has to consider where the baseball program stands right now, which will almost surely hinge on 2 straight years w/o reaching the CWS.  Is that unacceptable?  Eh, it's not good.  Texas should expect a program that is dominant enough to warrant a top 16 national seed with the perks that come along with it; namely, a regional with 3 lesser teams to beat.  Having to beat one of the best teams in the country twice to advance to the Supers is a pretty big red flag.

I’d argue that Texas should be hosting a regional almost every year. 

[immamac 42847]

Pierce doesn't make a deep run and he's fired. He's 1 more inexplicable loss from this being over for him. 

[Js1 85321]

3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I’d argue that Texas should be hosting a regional almost every year. 

I agree with this 

[jimmyjazz 45919]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

I’d argue that Texas should be hosting a regional almost every year. 

I'd agree.  If the standard is top 10 then top 16 isn't hard to argue with.

We have to allow for random down years, though, but the hard part is figuring out when a slump is a long-term trend.

Based on past history (Cliff & Augie), we missed the post-season 7 times in 49 years.  So, making a regional 6 years in 7 is consistent.  Hosting that regional should be almost an automatic (CDC's "Top 10" standard).  Augie made the CWS 8 times in 20 years. which seems another reasonable mark to hit.  Say, 3-4 times per 7 years.  I'm not sure what I would say is the standard once we get there.

 

[Dbeasy 15048]

23 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

This is a perspective I can get behind.  CDC made the standard clear.  While I don't think he's irrational in the sense that he would (hypothetically) fire a coach like Jerritt Elliot for a down year next year, he has to consider where the baseball program stands right now, which will almost surely hinge on 2 straight years w/o reaching the CWS.  Is that unacceptable?  Eh, it's not good.  Texas should expect a program that is dominant enough to warrant a top 16 national seed with the perks that come along with it; namely, a regional with 3 lesser teams to beat.  Having to beat one of the best teams in the country twice to advance to the Supers is a pretty big red flag.

As negative as I’ve been on Pierce, almost since the beginning, it’s not actually his CWS appearance record that bothers me. It’s the inconsistency of the program from year to year, the lack of development, striking out with key recruits, A&M on the rise, the frustrating pitching, and coaching personnel issues. The performance in the World Series once there is also concerning. 

[Tex Long 4393]

Just now, Dbeasy said:

As negative as I’ve been on Pierce, almost since the beginning, it’s not actually his CWS appearance record that bothers me. It’s the inconsistency of the program from year to year, the lack of development, striking out with key recruits, A&M on the rise, the frustrating pitching, and coaching personnel issues. The performance in the World Series once there is also concerning. 

So, on balance, would you say we give him three more years? Two? One? 

[Balcones 316]

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'd agree.  If the standard is top 10 then top 16 isn't hard to argue with.

We have to allow for random down years, though, but the hard part is figuring out when a slump is a long-term trend.

Based on past history (Cliff & Augie), we missed the post-season 7 times in 49 years.  So, making a regional 6 years in 7 is consistent.  Hosting that regional should be almost an automatic (CDC's "Top 10" standard).  Augie made the CWS 8 times in 20 years. which seems another reasonable mark to hit.  Say, 3-4 times per 7 years.  I'm not sure what I would say is the standard once we get there.

 

Seems like Pierce is in line with what you are describing.

[tx 3 putt 76933]

Talent level wasn’t there this year. I’d blame him for portal failure but no idea what kind of nil budget hes working with.

 

[UnhappilyMarried 815]

1 hour ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

This is where I am at. I'll reserve for final judgement after the regional concludes today or tomorrow. But if CDC wants to make a change, I am okay with it. But we shouldnt fire him unless we have a great option lined up. 

There just isn’t a slam dunk. O’Connor is 1-4 in Omaha since the ‘15 title. Are Bakich or Canham proven enough? I’m operating under the assumption that Jarrett or an SEC name would be lost causes. After that you’re looking at Duke? NC Sts coach is 70.

That said, keeping Pierce for a few more years doesn’t change that picture at all. There’s never going to be a slam dunk that a school won’t fight tooth and nail for. 

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

20 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I'd agree.  If the standard is top 10 then top 16 isn't hard to argue with.

We have to allow for random down years, though, but the hard part is figuring out when a slump is a long-term trend.

Based on past history (Cliff & Augie), we missed the post-season 7 times in 49 years.  So, making a regional 6 years in 7 is consistent.  Hosting that regional should be almost an automatic (CDC's "Top 10" standard).  Augie made the CWS 8 times in 20 years. which seems another reasonable mark to hit.  Say, 3-4 times per 7 years.  I'm not sure what I would say is the standard once we get there.

 

I think realistic expectations should be something like:

 

Host and advance to supers 4/5 years
 

Advance to CWS 50% of time or more

Play for the title once every 4-5 years

Edited June 2 by BurntOrange&White

[cochamps 1879]

3 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

Talent level wasn’t there this year. I’d blame him for portal failure but no idea what kind of nil budget hes working with.

 

I think we should host most years, but it seems like our baseball NIL is not great.  That will influence any coach looking at accepting the job.  It should influence our decision-makers (though to what extent, I don't really know).

[jimmyjazz 45919]

Just now, BurntOrange&White said:

I think realistic expectations should be something like:

Host and advance to supers 4/5
Advance to CWS 50% of time or more

Play for the title once every 4-5 years

No real argument from me.

[WBT 20564]

34 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Texas should expect a program that is dominant enough to warrant a top 16 national seed with the perks that come along with it; namely, a regional with 3 lesser teams to beat. 

I'd go further.  1 top 8 seed in 7 years is unacceptable.  The way to win championships is to get to Omaha consistently and the way to get there consistently is to host both weekends.  Pierce deserves credit for his other 2 CWS trips but there was a lot of luck involved in Ole Miss pulling their regular home regional choke job in 2018.

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

Just now, cochamps said:

I think we should host most years, but it seems like our baseball NIL is not great.  That will influence any coach looking at accepting the job.  It should influence our decision-makers (though to what extent, I don't really know).

I’ll default to @closetojumping on baseball NIL. I think I recall a post that says he has a pretty good budget he just uses it poorly or something of that nature. 

[immamac 42847]

Just now, cochamps said:

I think we should host most years, but it seems like our baseball NIL is not great.  That will influence any coach looking at accepting the job.  It should influence our decision-makers (though to what extent, I don't really know).

They had everything they needed. 

[WBT 20564]

27 minutes ago, immamac said:

He's 1 more inexplicable loss from this being over for him. 

It's going to be easily explicable.

[chase25 2048]

wrong thread

 

Edited June 2 by chase25

[Dbeasy 15048]

16 minutes ago, Tex Long said:

So, on balance, would you say we give him three more years? Two? One? 

O. And I believe that despite all the arguing on this thread, the administration is taking a hard look at him. 

Edited June 2 by Dbeasy

[UnhappilyMarried 815]

4 minutes ago, cochamps said:

I think we should host most years, but it seems like our baseball NIL is not great.  That will influence any coach looking at accepting the job.  It should influence our decision-makers (though to what extent, I don't really know).

The SEC patch on the jersey will help here 

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

Just now, UnhappilyMarried said:

The SEC patch on the jersey will help here 

Not when his results don’t especially vs teams with that same patch

[tx 3 putt 76933]

7 minutes ago, cochamps said:

I think we should host most years, but it seems like our baseball NIL is not great.  That will influence any coach looking at accepting the job.  It should influence our decision-makers (though to what extent, I don't really know).

 

maybe I’m wrong here, but DF is heavily outdated. Turf field, curious how many sec teams have turf ? The stands, concessions, lay out was cool in the 70’s. But bottom line, ncaa doesn’t care, cut them their check and you’re good to host 

pure blasphemy, Dell Diamond would be a good host site 

Edited June 2 by tx 3 putt

[troph 24789]

20 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

As negative as I’ve been on Pierce, almost since the beginning, it’s not actually his CWS appearance record that bothers me. It’s the inconsistency of the program from year to year, the lack of development, striking out with key recruits, A&M on the rise, the frustrating pitching, and coaching personnel issues. The performance in the World Series once there is also concerning. 

I agree with this. I did bow out earlier this season one reason is pierce the other is we switched to YouTube tv so getting LHN was unreasonably hard. Whatever but I did observe from a distance. I came back for the regionals because I do think he gets more out of his teams in the post season, it’s actually his best coaching trait, the problem is the baseline team is never the best or close enough to out perform and be the best. There are always holes, deep flaws in his teams. The fact is the program isn’t steady. That’s a problem. 

[troph 24789]

20 minutes ago, Balcones said:

Seems like Pierce is in line with what you are describing.

On that single metric yeah he’s going alright. The rest of it not close.

[WBT 20564]

4 minutes ago, UnhappilyMarried said:

The SEC patch on the jersey will help here 

I don't buy that would hinder the right coach at all.  We're Texas.

[troph 24789]

10 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I think realistic expectations should be something like:

 

Host and advance to supers 4/5 years
 

Advance to CWS 50% of time or more

Play for the title once every 4-5 years

You can quibble about whether this should be the standard but it’s about as close to the historical performance of the program over 80 years as you can describe. You may slightly over state it but if so only by a smidge. Because it’s the historical performance over a 80 year period I tend to think it should be the stated standard for Texas baseball.

[UnhappilyMarried 815]

1 minute ago, WBT said:

I don't buy that would hinder the right coach at all.  We're Texas.

Elite players - hs and transfers - don’t want to showcase their talent in Lawrence and Cincinnati 

[WBT 20564]

1 minute ago, UnhappilyMarried said:

Elite players - hs and transfers - don’t want to showcase their talent in Lawrence and Cincinnati 

How about Omaha?

Minute Maid or Globe Life every year?

Edited June 2 by WBT

[troph 24789]

Just now, WBT said:

How about Omaha?

Exactly. The program will get a bump but any time there’s an issue with Texas performance it’s about Texas not the league Texas is in. When this program is on it’s the best and second is rarely close. We are our own worst enemy 

[EZ$ 2104]

10 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

I’ll default to @closetojumping on baseball NIL. I think I recall a post that says he has a pretty good budget he just uses it poorly or something of that nature. 

Spending your NIL to keep Porter Brown and Jack O’Dowd would definitely be considered “spending poorly”. 

[hobbes2702 13033]

4 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:

 

maybe I’m wrong here, but DF is heavily outdated. Turf field, curious how many sec teams have turf ? The stands, concessions, lay out was cool in the 70’s. But bottom line, ncaa doesn’t care, cut them their check and you’re good to host 

pure blasphemy, Dell Diamond would be a good host site 

DF is not outdated anymore. Although not having cup holders on the chairs is a fucking crime.

For all the complaining about the turf it is a non factor. This isn’t the old carpet.
Disch could be bigger and we probably should make the bleachers permanent down the left field line but I like having the food trucks.
Dell was the fucking worst regional host site. Maybe that’s just because of the results we had though. 

[BurntOrange&White 39931]

3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

DF is not outdated anymore. Although not having cup holders on the chairs is a fucking crime.

For all the complaining about the turf it is a non factor. This isn’t the old carpet.
Disch could be bigger and we probably should make the bleachers permanent down the left field line but I like having the food trucks.
Dell was the fucking worst regional host site. Maybe that’s just because of the results we had though. 

Is Omaha grass and dirt? This isn’t Astro turf so the advantages aren’t there anymore. Go to grass and dirt like I’m sure all other SEC teams are. Disch could definitely use more upgrades and seating moving forward. 

Edited June 2 by BurntOrange&White

[WBT 20564]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Dell was the fucking worst regional host site. Maybe that’s just because of the results we had though. 

And it was as hot as the surface of the sun that year.  Followed by a monsoon Sunday? night.

[UnhappilyMarried 815]

2 minutes ago, WBT said:

How about Omaha?

Minute Maid or Globe Life every year?

We went to Omaha back to back years and got TCUs 4th outfielder and a turmoil-filled USCs C and Sunday arm.

I don’t understand how there’s possibly an argument that being in the SEC won’t significantly improve our standing with transfers. And our standing with potential Pierce replacements. 

[hobbes2702 13033]

3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Is Omaha grass and dirt? This isn’t Astro turf so the advantages aren’t there anymore. Go to grass and dirt like I’m sure all other SEC teams are. 

Oh I agree, I’m just saying it isn’t a big deal. It’s not like the turf is driving away recruits or making us lose games. Thats my only point.

I still though don’t see that happening with us having no practice field. That’s always been the excuse in the past at least 

Edited June 2 by hobbes2702

[Hookem2147 21217]

3 minutes ago, UnhappilyMarried said:

Elite players - hs and transfers - don’t want to showcase their talent in Lawrence and Cincinnati 

The SEC bump will help a little. It hasn’t been a major hindrance overall but it has popped up from time to time. We lost out on a few portal guys over the years because they wanted to play in the SEC and not the Big 12. One last year was transferring from another Big 12 program and said he liked Texas but didn’t want to stay in the conference.

[UnhappilyMarried 815]

1 minute ago, Hookem2147 said:

The SEC bump will help a little. It hasn’t been a major hindrance overall but it has popped up from time to time. We lost out on a few portal guys over the years because they wanted to play in the SEC and not the Big 12. One last year was transferring from another Big 12 program and said he liked Texas but didn’t want to stay in the conference.

Assumed Branch didn’t want to play for Rodriguez 

[MuellerHorn 4230]

21 minutes ago, cochamps said:

I think we should host most years, but it seems like our baseball NIL is not great.  That will influence any coach looking at accepting the job.  It should influence our decision-makers (though to what extent, I don't really know).

 

20 minutes ago, immamac said:

They had everything they needed. 

Witt commanded an outsized portion of baseball's NIL budget. Re-injury (remaining injured?) really hurt this team in terms of overall performance, pitching depth, and ROI on NIL. Pierce obviously had some bad luck with his transfer pool, but he's still the person accountable for roster decisions.

[Hookem2147 21217]

6 minutes ago, EZ$ said:

Spending your NIL to keep Porter Brown and Jack O’Dowd would definitely be considered “spending poorly”. 

Getting a guy who hit .323 last year with 12 homers and 59 RBI’s to bypass professional opportunities and come back was seen as a very good get at the time.

Obviously hindsight is 20/20. I don’t think anyone could have predicted the year he had.

[chase25 2048]

4 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

The SEC bump will help a little. It hasn’t been a major hindrance overall but it has popped up from time to time. We lost out on a few portal guys over the years because they wanted to play in the SEC and not the Big 12. One last year was transferring from another Big 12 program and said he liked Texas but didn’t want to stay in the conference.

Kolby Branch?

[Hookem2147 21217]

1 minute ago, UnhappilyMarried said:

Assumed Branch didn’t want to play for Rodriguez 

Rodriguez recruited and signed him to Baylor. There wasn’t any bad blood based on my understanding.

[jimmyjazz 45919]

14 minutes ago, EZ$ said:

Spending your NIL to keep Porter Brown

Uh, he hit 0.323 with 12 HR last year.  Not a bad call.  He fell off a cliff, maybe the $ went to his head, but it wasn't a bad decision whatsoever.

EDIT:  already covered, I hit send about 5 seconds late

Edited June 2 by jimmyjazz

[MuellerHorn 4230]

Look no farther than Schloss in College Station to compare program health. He's in his third year with an obvious upward trajectory and a real sense of how to command the transfer portal to upgrade the roster. Sure, DP's aggregate results haven't been bad in the grand scheme of college baseball, but how can anyone have confidence in him when there's no consistent performance across the program? He's completely bungled on-field assistant coaching hires, shown his arrogance and a lack of leadership when it comes to pitching development/the pitching coach position, and hasn't proven to be able to manage the roster composition well. 

He's not a bad coach if Texas wants to be a top-10 or 15% program. But that's not the standard, nor representative of the advantages a coach has at a program like Texas.

Edited June 2 by MuellerHorn

[MuellerHorn 4230]

5 minutes ago, MuellerHorn said:

Look no farther than Schloss in College Station to compare program health. He's in his third year with an obvious upward trajectory and a real sense of how to command the transfer portal to upgrade the roster. Sure, DP's aggregate results haven't been bad in the grand scheme of college baseball, but how can anyone have confidence in him when there's no consistent performance across the program? He's completely bungled on-field assistant coaching hires, shown his arrogance and a lack of leadership when it comes to pitching development/the pitching coach position, and hasn't proven to be able to manage the roster composition well. 

He's not a bad coach if Texas wants to be a top-10 or 15% program. But that's not the standard, nor representative of the advantages a coach has at a program like Texas.

Look no further*

[Levi 2586]

8 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Oh I agree, I’m just saying it isn’t a big deal. It’s not like the turf is driving away recruits or making us lose games. Thats my only point.

I still though don’t see that happening with us having no practice field. That’s always been the excuse in the past at least 

Yeah I highly doubt recruits don’t like turf.  More high schools are switching to turf for baseball because they’re cheaper to maintain and it allows them to host tournaments/playoff games without fear of rain canceling them. 

[hobbes2702 13033]

8 minutes ago, MuellerHorn said:

Look no farther than Schloss in College Station to compare program health. He's in his third year with an obvious upward trajectory and a real sense of how to command the transfer portal to upgrade the roster. Sure, DP's aggregate results haven't been bad in the grand scheme of college baseball, but how can anyone have confidence in him when there's no consistent performance across the program? He's completely bungled on-field assistant coaching hires, shown his arrogance and a lack of leadership when it comes to pitching development/the pitching coach position, and hasn't proven to be able to manage the roster composition well. 

He's not a bad coach if Texas wants to be a top-10 or 15% program. But that's not the standard, nor representative of the advantages a coach has at a program like Texas.

Schloss can lick my taint.

[MuellerHorn 4230]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

Schloss can lick my taint.

And what if Texas hired him? (which I doubt happens, because A&M will spend any amount of money to not lose him to Texas).