[Surly Official Firing Squad] David Pierce Has Left The Building - FIRED

[petscii 1,189]

3 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Funny you mention that. I remember that Long beach state regional. Those games against long beach state were fucking criminal. Crooked ass umpires.  

My favorite thing was Long Beach tried to sell a new ticket for the final game.  It was an all regional pass.   Arguing with a student and asking to speak to someone who actually graduated from college was not my finest hour...

 

 

Edited May 28 by petscii

[Horn80 6,074]

 I’m ready for change but only if the right guy is available to be hired.  Unfortunately, aggy got that guy.

[BrazilHorn 6,576]

Lot of sunk cost fallacy in this thread. 
Yes DP has got Horns to CWS, yes he has got them to regionals but he is not guy to win the CWS. 
 

He is in year 8 for fuck’s sake. This isn’t some up and coming coach, this is a proven “ok” guy, not the guy for future. 

[petscii 1,189]

1 hour ago, Horn80 said:

 I’m ready for change but only if the right guy is available to be hired.  Unfortunately, aggy got that guy.

Pass on that.  I would hire the Tennessee skipper as raw as he may be personality-wise over the TCU -> Aggie coach.  Who has been nothing but a cretin since his wife caught him cheating on her and tossed him out of his house across from Lufton Stadium.   He went out of his way at TCU during the Pierce hiring saga to re-ink a new deal with TCU.  He can shove that purple pen up has ass.
 

Edited May 28 by petscii

[troph 24,548]

21 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

Lot of sunk cost fallacy in this thread. 
Yes DP has got Horns to CWS, yes he has got them to regionals but he is not guy to win the CWS. 
 

He is in year 8 for fuck’s sake. This isn’t some up and coming coach, this is a proven “ok” guy, not the guy for future. 

[troph 24,548]

10 hours ago, chase25 said:

Honestly probably a fair comparison, and guess who replaced Rick Barnes? Shaka fucking Smart because why? Oh yeah he had that one Final Four run that one year at VCU. That is pretty much exactly what is playing out in this thread, just the baseball version.

I agree DP is a lot like Rick Barnes - almost good enough to be elite. Texas basketball never should have let Rick leave (can’t recall if he was fired or the seat was hot he just left). Either way, Rick Barnes met the Texas basketball standard. 
 

Texas baseball standards are much higher they just are. I think you know that. I think you agree with that.
 

as for Shaka, I think CDC is a much better evaluator of coaching talent and will hire well if he makes a move. And if it takes two hires to get there then let’s get there, I find that a better path forward than hoping a guy who is 61 that is almost good enough can get over the hump before his retirement in the next 10 or so years.

Edited May 28 by troph

[The_Great_Hornsby 3,319]

5 minutes ago, troph said:

I agree DP is a lot like Rick Barnes - almost good enough to be elite. Texas basketball never should have let Rick leave (can’t recall if he was fired or the seat was hot he just left). Either way, Rick Barnes met the Texas basketball standard. 
 

Texas baseball standards are much higher they just are. I think you know that. I think you agree with that.
 

as for Shaka, I think CDC is a much better evaluator of coaching talent and will hire well if he makes a move. And if it takes two hires to get there then let’s get there, I find that a better path forward than hoping a guy who is 61 that is almost good enough can get over the hump before his retirement in the next 10 or so years.

Bad take

[petscii 1,189]

4 minutes ago, troph said:

I agree DP is a lot like Rick Barnes - almost good enough to be elite. Texas basketball never should have let Rick leave (can’t recall if he was fired or the seat was hot he just left). Either way, Rick Barnes met the Texas basketball standard. 
 

Texas baseball standards are much higher they just are. I think you know that. I think you agree with that.
 

as for Shaka, I think CDC is a much better evaluator of coaching talent and will hire well if he makes a move. And if it takes two hires to get there then let’s get there, I find that a better path forward than hoping a guy who is 61 that is almost good enough can get over the hump before his retirement in the next 10 or so years.

I like DP and would be fine if he stayed, but Troph really makes the best argument for canning him and moving on...    

[Js1 85,056]

7 minutes ago, troph said:

I agree DP is a lot like Rick Barnes - almost good enough to be elite. Texas basketball never should have let Rick leave (can’t recall if he was fired or the seat was hot he just left). Either way, Rick Barnes met the Texas basketball standard. 

Barnes didn't advance past the first weekend for his final 7 seasons at Texas. 

He no longer met the standard he set.

Edited May 28 by Js1

[troph 24,548]

2 hours ago, Js1 said:

Barnes didn't advance past the first weekend for his final 7 seasons at Texas. 

He no longer met the standard he set.

I think hindsight suggests otherwise. And I’m not sure the Texas basketball standard isn't much higher than consistently making it to the round of 32 and occasionally making the sweet sixteen and once a decade doing better. That’s essentially Texas basketball history since Penders. 

2 hours ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

Bad take

Show your work. 

Edited May 28 by troph
"isn't much higher" instead of "is much higher"

[BurntOrange&White 39,486]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

I think hindsight suggests otherwise. And I’m not sure the Texas basketball standard is much higher than consistently making it to the round of 32 and occasionally making the sweet sixteen and once a decade doing better. That’s essentially Texas basketball history since Penders. 

Show your work. 

If Texas baseball standard ever falls to Texas basketball standard, which is seems like some fans in this thread seem to have done, then the baseball program is cooked.

Edited May 28 by BurntOrange&White

[troph 24,548]

51 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If Texas baseball standard ever falls to Texas basketball standard, which is seems like some fans in this thread seem to have done, then the baseball program is cooked.

if we're correct, DP won't win a title here, then if we aren't careful it'll be 30 years since our last title.

[Balcones 430]

53 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If Texas baseball standard ever falls to Texas basketball standard, which is seems like some fans in this thread seem to have done, then the baseball program is cooked.

You are the guy that wants a skipper who routinely cant make it out of a regional (1x regional in 7 tries).  Losses to Florida Gulf Coast University (yes, a real school), Western Michigan, Charlotte, and fucking UCONN.  

[BurntOrange&White 39,486]

3 minutes ago, Balcones said:

You are the guy that wants a skipper who routinely cant make it out of a regional (1x regional in 7 tries).  Losses to Florida Gulf Coast University (yes, a real school), Western Michigan, Charlotte, and fucking UCONN.  

 

 

Edited May 28 by BurntOrange&White

[Balcones 430]

1 minute ago, troph said:

if we're correct, DP won't win a title here, then if we aren't careful it'll be 30 years since our last title.

We have no idea what we will/can do.  You only can see what he has done.  That has been posted at length on here.  

You think Gary Gilmore or Mike Betesole can win one?

[Balcones 430]

1 minute ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Oh shit.  You want to look at Tuesday games in mid-season or just post-season?  Cause Bakich has some real good Tuesday games.

[BurntOrange&White 39,486]

Just now, Balcones said:

Oh shit.  You want to look at Tuesday games in mid-season or just post-season?  Cause Bakich has some real good Tuesday games.

God it's going to be glorious to watch you back track when Pierce is canned.

[troph 24,548]

1 minute ago, Balcones said:

We have no idea what we will/can do.  You only can see what he has done.  That has been posted at length on here.  

You think Gary Gilmore or Mike Betesole can win one?

you serious clark? he's been here 8 years. he's 61. He's in the last 20% of his career. He's a known quantity if there ever was one.

[Balcones 430]

2 minutes ago, troph said:

you serious clark? he's been here 8 years. he's 61. He's in the last 20% of his career. He's a known quantity if there ever was one.

I see.  If you haven't won a Title by age 61, then you never will.  I wasn't aware of that.

[Balcones 430]

4 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

God it's going to be glorious to watch you back track when Pierce is canned.

I can't wait to see how miserable you are when Texas wins post-season games.  You love to see the team be unsuccessful.  

[BurntOrange&White 39,486]

Which resume is better if you were hiring for baseball?

 

 

Which of those is the strongest resume? 

[BurntOrange&White 39,486]

10 minutes ago, Balcones said:

I see.  If you haven't won a Title by age 61, then you never will.  I wasn't aware of that.

I'd actually be curious to see a list of coaches who were 60+ years old that won titles.

 

So far:

 

Augie(66, 2005)
Rod Dedeaux(63, 1978)

 

Edited May 28 by BurntOrange&White

[troph 24,548]

4 minutes ago, Balcones said:

I see.  If you haven't won a Title by age 61, then you never will.  I wasn't aware of that.

Read my posts stop arguing for arguing sake we're too old to be like that. I've said multiple times I could be wrong. But at this point, it's not really likely. Past performance may not be indicative of future results, except it usually is. He's had 8 years here, and other than the MSU series he hasn't sniffed the last weekend of the year. His teams are way out matched in Omaha. If you're telling me despite that he's more likely than not to win it all here then ok. I just don't see it.

[UTPhil2006 3,790]

4 minutes ago, Balcones said:

I can't wait to see how miserable you are when Texas wins post-season games.  You love to see the team be unsuccessful.  

It’s a win win. Win and win. Lose and he’s likely gone. 

[troph 24,548]

this is the only question that matters to me - considering all we know about David Pierce - is he more likely than not to win the CWS at Texas?

If you say yes, he's a keeper.

If you say no, then his tenure should end.

If the head baseball coach at Texas isn't more likely than not to win the CWS then he's the wrong guy.

[troph 24,548]

and the notion that ANYONE here is rooting for Texas to lose is a silly argument. We all want Texas to win that's why we are here. What a juvenile argument.

[Balcones 430]

3 minutes ago, troph said:

Read my posts stop arguing for arguing sake we're too old to be like that. I've said multiple times I could be wrong. But at this point, it's not really likely. Past performance may not be indicative of future results, except it usually is. He's had 8 years here, and other than the MSU series he hasn't sniffed the last weekend of the year. His teams are way out matched in Omaha. If you're telling me despite that he's more likely than not to win it all here then ok. I just don't see it.

Read my posts, as well. 

 

He has 6 complete seasons here.  2020, no one went to CWS.  2024 is still going.  In his six seasons, he has 3 CWS, and a top 3 finish.  

[The_Great_Hornsby 3,319]

1 hour ago, troph said:

Show your work. 

We went through a couple of coaches before we found Sark and that led to us wandering in the desert for a decade. I would gladly have traded hanging on to Mack for a couple of more good (not great) seasons until we found a homerun hire to avoid the dark hole we had to endure. 

[BurntOrange&White 39,486]

Just now, The_Great_Hornsby said:

We went through a couple of coaches before we found Sark and that led to us wandering in the desert for a decade. I would gladly have traded hanging on to Mack for a couple of more good (not great) seasons until we found a homerun hire to avoid the dark hole we had to endure. 

We also went through multiple ADs, presidents, and BoR chairs during that time period. It's almost like that has something to do with it....

[troph 24,548]

1 minute ago, Balcones said:

Read my posts, as well. 

 

He has 6 complete seasons here.  2020, no one went to CWS.  2024 is still going.  In his six seasons, he has 3 CWS, and a top 3 finish.  

if he makes the finals this year I'll change my mind. I'll revise going forward to say 7 seasons. 

again, making the CWS is not the standard - making the CWS and being competitive for the last weekend is the standard. He's not meeting it.

[troph 24,548]

2 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

We went through a couple of coaches before we found Sark and that led to us wandering in the desert for a decade. I would gladly have traded hanging on to Mack for a couple of more good (not great) seasons until we found a homerun hire to avoid the dark hole we had to endure. 

That's the football standard not baseball.

and I would not have traded hanging on to Mack, but the AD was a fucking dumpster fire then, it's not now. There's no reason to believe CDC wouldn't hire one of the best. Shit if DP is canned you know he already probably has his guy, if he's not canned either CDC believes in DP or else he doesn't think a better hire is out there.

 

[Balcones 430]

11 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Which resume is better if you were hiring for baseball?

 

 

 

Which of those is the strongest resume? 

Damn.  I wasn't aware Pierce has made the post season every year except 1 in his 13 years coaching.  The fact that he did that at Sam and Tulane make it even more impressive.

[BurntOrange&White 39,486]

1 minute ago, Balcones said:

Damn.  I wasn't aware Pierce has made the post season every year except 1 in his 13 years coaching.  The fact that he did that at Sam and Tulane make it even more impressive.

So answer the question, which one of those resumes is the best if you were the AD at Texas looking to fill the baseball HC position.

Edited May 28 by BurntOrange&White

[troph 24,548]

If you can't see the Tenn coach and ECU coach have better resumes than DP at the time of his hiring then I have have nothing else to say but wow.

 

* I would not hire the guy that coached Mich.

Edited May 28 by troph

[Balcones 430]

3 minutes ago, troph said:

if he makes the finals this year I'll change my mind. I'll revise going forward to say 7 seasons. 

again, making the CWS is not the standard - making the CWS and being competitive for the last weekend is the standard. He's not meeting it.

OK.  Here is your quote:  He's had 8 years here, and other than the MSU series he hasn't sniffed the last weekend of the year.  

No coach, not any coach on planet Earth, sniffed the finals in 2020 or 2024.  No one.  In the six other years, he has made it to the CWS three times.  Only people in Omaha can sniff the title.  There are 305 D1 baseball teams.  Only 8 make it to Omaha. 

[BurntOrange&White 39,486]

2 minutes ago, Balcones said:

OK.  Here is your quote:  He's had 8 years here, and other than the MSU series he hasn't sniffed the last weekend of the year.  

No coach, not any coach on planet Earth, sniffed the finals in 2020 or 2024.  No one.  In the six other years, he has made it to the CWS three times.  Only people in Omaha can sniff the title.  There are 305 D1 baseball teams.  Only 8 make it to Omaha. 

If Vitello was obtainable would you replace Pierce with him? 

[Balcones 430]

5 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

So answer the question, which one of those resumes is the best if you were the AD at Texas looking to fill the baseball HC position.

Well, one is from 2016 and the others go through 2024.  In 2016, we hired the right guy.  Those other guys have nothing on DP in 2016.

[BurntOrange&White 39,486]

1 minute ago, Balcones said:

Well, one is from 2016 and the others go through 2024.  In 2016, we hired the right guy.  Those other guys have nothing on DP in 2016.

Forget the years....this is about resume prior to arriving at Texas.....

 

Just look at the resumes and tell me but you can't because his is arguably the worst resume out of those.

Edited May 28 by BurntOrange&White

[Balcones 430]

3 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

If Vitello was obtainable would you replace Pierce with him? 

He has been to the CWS twice.  He is 0-4.  No way. 

Is that is how it is done?

[Balcones 430]

4 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Forget the years....this is about resume prior to arriving at Texas.....

 

Just look at the resumes and tell me but you can't because his is arguably the worst resume out of those.

South San Antonio High School[edit]

After briefly playing baseball professionally, Gustafson embarked on a successful 14-year-high school coaching career that began in 1953 at South San Antonio High School in San Antonio, Texas. During his 14 seasons at South San, Gustafson's teams won the Class 3A State Championships an impressive seven times: 1958, 1959, 1961, 1963, 1964, 1966,1967.^[1]

[closetojumping 62,132]

1 hour ago, troph said:

I think hindsight suggests otherwise. And I’m not sure the Texas basketball standard is much higher than consistently making it to the round of 32 and occasionally making the sweet sixteen and once a decade doing better. That’s essentially Texas basketball history since Penders. 

Show your work. 

He can't. His only viewpoint is the simpleton angle of "we could do worse, look at football!".

18 minutes ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

We went through a couple of coaches before we found Sark and that led to us wandering in the desert for a decade. I would gladly have traded hanging on to Mack for a couple of more good (not great) seasons until we found a homerun hire to avoid the dark hole we had to endure. 

You and the @Balcones Pierce dickrider are like the combined echeese chimera of the baseball board. Just looming like gargoyles over several threads, waiting to swoop in and shriek when anyone deigns to posit reasonably that Texas could and should do better than continue on with an aging, angry midget that can't get it done at the highest level. It's pathetic to watch. You guys should be relegated to a David Pierce Hagiographer thread where you can echochamber yourselves into masturbatory fanfic about the accomplishments of your tiny hero. 

Bakich or Canham could be had for roughly what Pierce makes or less. Both are in bad spots regarding team/conference alliances. Bakich resurrected Michigan and took them to the CWS finals, which Pierce hasn't done. He's young enough and he's an excellent recruiter and developer. Canham hasn't made it to the CWS yet, but he's won a regional and he's coaching a national seed this year, and he's 39 years old. People covering OSU have raved about him. 

People can talk about Vitello or other SEC coaches, but any SEC school trying to swipe a coach faces a path to success that is fraught with peril, risking public egg on the AD's face along the way. 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,780]

As often as you call Pierce a midget,, I'm guessing that you're about 5'2"

[ConferenceRoom 6,123]

Yeah, but he's super fast. 

[closetojumping 62,132]

7 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

As often as you call Pierce a midget,, I'm guessing that you're about 5'2"

Nailed it. 

As sensitive as you appear to be about it, kind of seems like an accusation that could also be an admission. 

[troph 24,548]

29 minutes ago, Balcones said:

South San Antonio High School[edit]

After briefly playing baseball professionally, Gustafson embarked on a successful 14-year-high school coaching career that began in 1953 at South San Antonio High School in San Antonio, Texas. During his 14 seasons at South San, Gustafson's teams won the Class 3A State Championships an impressive seven times: 1958, 1959, 1961, 1963, 1964, 1966,1967.^[1]

DP had a better resume than Coach Gus when Gus was hired, that's your argument for keeping Pierce - nearly 7 full seasons in at age 61? really?

 

The only argument to keep DP is that he's been to the CWS 3 out of 6 full seasons, finishing 3rd and it's only a matter of time before he wins it all.  That last part is the most crucial because again, just making the series isn't the standard, being in the mix for the last weekend and winning it all is the standard. Many of us do not believe he has what it takes to win it all and that he has hit his ceiling which falls short of the Texas baseball standard.

Edited May 28 by troph

[Levi 2,576]

30 minutes ago, troph said:

If you can't see the Tenn coach and ECU coach have better resumes than DP at the time of his hiring then I have have nothing else to say but wow.

 

* I would not hire the guy that coached Mich.

I have already said this once, but to me, this is a totally irrelevant point to make in regards to how we should look at hiring a replacement for Pierce. Why are we looking at their entire resumes and not Pierce? I think it’s possible to understand that he has put himself in a hole that a lot of us don’t think he can get out of, but at the same time acknowledging his pretty good success at Texas.

We should be aiming higher than some of the proposed resumes. And this is coming from me who has had Canham as an option with what he has done at Oregon state and being a head coach in the minors means he has an eye for development. 

[Dbeasy 14,953]

Just to clarify Texas’ and CDC’s coaching decisions.  Barnes was let go not because of wins and losses directly but because of behaviors that ultimately led to too many losses. So that wasn’t a bad decision to fire him. They had no other choice. Allegedly (legal caveat). 

CDC hired our current basketball coach because the people who contributed significant funds to the program were comfortable giving him a chance. It is unclear to me whether CDC made a  mistake by not pushing back on that sentiment and hiring a coach out there that is most probably better. I’ve felt from the beginning he made a mistake, but I don’t have the full picture.   

Herman won a lot of games but was ultimately fired for things besides just wins and losses. 

The decision on Pierce will include not just wins and losses. This is why the apologist’s arguments of world series appearances is so weak. It demonstrates an incomplete understanding of his entire body of work. 

[troph 24,548]

 

 

28 minutes ago, Levi said:

I have already said this once, but to me, this is a totally irrelevant point to make in regards to how we should look at hiring a replacement for Pierce. Why are we looking at their entire resumes and not Pierce? I think it’s possible to understand that he has put himself in a hole that a lot of us don’t think he can get out of, but at the same time acknowledging his pretty good success at Texas.

We should be aiming higher than some of the proposed resumes. And this is coming from me who has had Canham as an option with what he has done at Oregon state and being a head coach in the minors means he has an eye for development. 

I don't disagree with much here, I was just participating in that line of discussion. But I think the idea of hiring someone with a better track record now than DP had at the time of his hiring is a method of trying to decipher the signal that someone else has a higher ceiling at Texas than DP, even if DP thus far has done better than them. Basically comparing the trajectory of their careers not at the same calendar date but at the same point in their careers. As to its merit, well, I have no position there and defer frankly to CDC as the AD who for the first time in my adult life has a great track record of hiring.

[jimmyjazz 45,513]

1 hour ago, troph said:

again, making the CWS is not the standard - making the CWS and being competitive for the last weekend is the standard. He's not meeting it.

Your language is a bit imprecise ("being competitive for the last weekend"), but let's look at a couple of statistics, shall we?

Texas has made it to the CWS 38 times.  We were champions 6 times and runner-up 6 times.  This is a hit rate of 31.6%, or just under one "final weekend" appearance for every 3 trips to Omaha.  David Pierce has taken Texas to Omaha . . . 3 times.  He's not yet off that pace, although he's close.

For further color, Texas has made it to the CWS 38 times in 74 seasons since our first appearance in 1949.  This is a hit rate of 51.4%.  David Pierce has gotten us to Omaha 3 times in 6 seasons, or 50% of the time.  Just off the pace.

I don't think he's missed your "standard" by any measurable amount.  I'm sure you'll have some way to equivocate your way out of this, though.

Edited May 28 by jimmyjazz

[YGIFS 19,449]

53 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

As often as you call Pierce a midget,, I'm guessing that you're about 5'2"

Yes, but he has small hands, subtle voice.  Smells of cabbage.  And not the kind Babe Ruth used to put under his ball-cap.