2nd Round: Warriors vs. Rockets

[Rockethorn1978 6,203]

For real I love the playoffs 

[immortal13 4,059]

4 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Nothing harden does is illegal.

Except for every stepback three he takes

[ChiTownDoc 21,326]

2 hours ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Did you even Clippers series bro? Clippers got buckets of calls while Curry gets mugged every possession. Lou Williams flopped his way into more calls than Harden. 

Oh true but when push comes to shove I’ll always believe the prima donnas in GS will get the calls when it matters most.  The Clips were never a real threat.  But let’s play this out.  Hope I’m wrong.  

[clapclapclap 9,000]

Just caught Sportscenter, I see the NBA is still rigged. 

Playoff ratings down 19%, too.  Maybe others are wising up.

[hookem48 4,808]

the Rockets have one maybe two players that generally get their asses kissed by the refs, the Warriors have at least 4,  not good for the Rockets.

[immortal13 4,059]

5 hours ago, Zavala said:

It was four times he got undercut in the first half. 3 times by Klay. Zero fouls or techs called. Gonna have to get some crutches ready if the Warriors are allowed to jump under three point shooters again.

 

He actually jumped around and cried about this foul call after the play, just like the current Warriors, constantly crying. Iggy grabbed Hardens arm while shooting, got called for the foul, and cried and screamed.

The first one was a total dive

[immortal13 4,059]

4 hours ago, Robin Masters said:

Whenever the refs haven't been giving me even legit undercut fouls, and I need 3 points late in the game, I make sure to do the silliest looking jump forward 3 feet and kick my leg out shot, instead of just shooting the shot with my normal form.

Sorry, yeah you got robbed on some stuff, and they got robbed on some stuff but probably less, but that last shot was stupid. Game on the line it's not  time to rely on the kindness of refs. Hell let Gordon or Paul shoot it if that's all you got.

Harden's body position on that last three

[Vic Mackey 47,849]

LMAO. Regular season pussy as usual. Quick to complain about the refs when they don't buy your flopping, flailing and looking for a foul. Had a legit shot to tie it at the end but instead he throws up some goofy ass shot that wasn't even close but his intentions was not to make the shot but to try and land and kick his feet hoping for free throws. Embarrassing.

[Vic Mackey 47,849]

LMAO.

[Vic Mackey 47,849]

 

[Telegraph_it 3,376]

Vic why the fuck are you posting. Throwing your feet out should not result in techs. Please watch Dallas play. 

[Ricky Butler 2,790]

4 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

Just caught Sportscenter, I see the NBA is still rigged. 

Playoff ratings down 19%, too.  Maybe others are wising up.

Hahahahahaha. What are you talking about? The first round of the playoffs weren’t as good as last season and that’s because of the refs? It’s probably because LeBron is sitting at home. You know what’s bad for ratings? Foul hunting. 

[52-80 19,373]

Bbbbbut bbbbuuuu muh landing zones!

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

Regardless of where you stand, you have to agree this is a difficult series for any set of refs. You have Harden, who’s been fooling refs with his BS more so than almost anyone in the history of the league, then to top it off you have to deal with Draymond Green, CP3, and KD’s constant barking about every missed call. I generally think that basketball is poorly officiated, but man, this is a tough series to officiate. 

[Pam Cummings 9,826]

11 hours ago, Llogg said:

The no-calls were a big deal, maybe even the deciding factor, but Harden exaggerating every motion like a high school drama club production of Cats should not be rewarded. Play like a bitch get treated like a bitch.

I think it's kinda fucked up that the league conditions him to always expect to get that call, so of course he's used to playing a certain way, and now all of a sudden he doesn't get that call. Not even once out of the four times that it happened, lol

Edited April 29, 2019 by Pam Cummings

[Pam Cummings 9,826]

7 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

LMAO.

This kinda makes sense though. When someone runs into you as you shoot a 3, your natural reaction is going to be to try and kick out and land on your butt, rather than risk landing on the other guy's foot.

[aggie08 21,735]

31 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

This kinda makes sense though. When someone runs into you as you shoot a 3, your natural reaction is going to be to try and kick out and land on your butt, rather than risk landing on the other guy's foot.

There is something to that. I tried to find it, but Steph had a sound bite a few years back where he said that, whenever he feels someone in his landing zone, he always crumples up goes to the ground, rather than risk turning his problematic ankle on someone's foot. And if that going to the ground motion happens to also draw a foul call, even better. But I'd wager that he only gets the call about 10% of the time he ends up on the floor. 

Harden's last 3, however, was taken with the goal to create and exaggerate contact every bit as--if not more--prevalent than actually making the shot.

But vast reffing conspiracies are way more fun to talk about.

[52-80 19,373]

43 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

This kinda makes sense though. When someone runs into you as you shoot a 3, your natural reaction is going to be to try and kick out and land on your butt, rather than risk landing on the other guy's foot.

Is this nga serious?

[Huckleberry 34,407]

This kinda makes sense though. When someone runs into you as you shoot a 3, your natural reaction is going to be to try and kick out and land on your butt, rather than risk landing on the other guy's foot.

Who ran into whom? Green landed 3 feet away from where Harden took off.

[Zavala 1,384]

14 hours ago, Llano Estacado said:

Lulz.
 

 

Watch the first 20 seconds. Look at the takeoff and landing. Harden was ending on his ass regardless of where the defender was. You don’t shoot, jump 3 feet foward, and kick your legs forward at a 45 deg angle. That’s not a normal shooting motion.

 

He's anticipating the contact because he's been undercut 4 times previously without getting a call. 

At a certain point you don't want to risk breaking your ankles.

Curry falls down EVERY 3 point shot he takes contact or no contact, they've learned to shoot that way to protect themselves from injury, since half the time you land after a shot on top of a defender's foot.

[Zavala 1,384]

26 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

This kinda makes sense though. When someone runs into you as you shoot a 3, your natural reaction is going to be to try and kick out and land on your butt, rather than risk landing on the other guy's foot.

Who ran into whom? Green landed 3 feet away from where Harden took off.

 

They admitted they missed these to the coaches. 

 

[Huckleberry 34,407]

Yeah, I wasn't talking about those. That was pretty clear.

[Zavala 1,384]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

Yeah, I wasn't talking about those. That was pretty clear.

You have to take that into consideration though - that is why the end got so crazy. They repeatedly did this shit and got away with it, it got in their heads. They don't want to leave on a stretcher like Kawaii. The Warriors play dirty, and they get away with it. I don't understand why the Rockets wouldn't do the exact same thing to them, and take out their best player. 

[aggie08 21,735]

You would think that, if Harden was so worried about injury, he wouldn't exaggerate his shooting motion so frequently, trying to land on top of someone several feet in front of his takeoff point.

[Nolacycling 893]

IMO, this why you cannot win w/Harden. The nuances of the rules can be argued all day, but the weak spot in Harden's game is that he is depending on someone else to make him successful. Yes, many, many other players do this, but when you lead the league in free throw attempts you're depending on it more often. There's always going to be a game in a season or a playoff where you're not going to get that call and you need to change your game. Durant had a season where he invented that double arm swing while holding the ball  making contact with the defender's outstretched arms. After a season it stopped being called and he adapted. Harden is also fighting the addage that at the end of a game the referees swallow their whistles.

[immortal13 4,059]

17 minutes ago, Zavala said:

He's initiating the contact 

Fify

[LCHorn 2,749]

4 minutes ago, Nolacycling said:

IMO, this why you cannot win w/Harden. The nuances of the rules can be argued all day, but the weak spot in Harden's game is that he is depending on someone else to make him successful. Yes, many, many other players do this, but when you lead the league in free throw attempts you're depending on it more often. There's always going to be a game in a season or a playoff where you're not going to get that call and you need to change your game. Durant had a season where he invented that double arm swing while holding the ball  making contact with the defender's outstretched arms. After a season it stopped being called and he adapted. Harden is also fighting the addage that at the end of a game the referees swallow their whistles.

You’re talking about someone who just blew away a record for unassisted three’s and is both high usage and highly efficient and maintain he needs someone else to make him successful?  

 

[Nolacycling 893]

When relying on a referee to make a call, yes.

[aggie08 21,735]

20 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

You’re talking about someone who just blew away a record for unassisted three’s and is both high usage and highly efficient and maintain he needs someone else to make him successful?  

 

Well, how many years in a row now does this make us talking about how Harden is officiated differently in the playoffs and how he plays poorly in large part because of that?

I totally understand Houston's gripe: games should be officiated the same way in April as they are in November. But the NBA has made it pretty clear for awhile now that they at least try to crack down on flopping and acting more in the postseason, and Harden is patient zero. The natural consequence of that is that some actual fouls go uncalled due to reputation.

Drawing fouls on three pointers is a huge part of Houston's gameplan. They make no secret about that. Harden personally draws over 100 fouls on threes every season, more than any other TEAM total. Most were legit, I'm sure. Plenty of others were sold with body contortions and unnatural motions to create contact. The refs are well aware of this too, and in real-time it can be hard to tell the two apart. Those calls didn't go their way yesterday; they might tomorrow. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by aggie08

[Pam Cummings 9,826]

30 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

You would think that, if Harden was so worried about injury, he wouldn't exaggerate his shooting motion so frequently, trying to land on top of someone several feet in front of his takeoff point.

OK, but how can you blame the guy for wanting the call and trying to get it, when he has been conditioned into thinking he will get it?

 

Especially seeing as how some of those are legit fouls that anyone should get.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Pam Cummings

[52-80 19,373]

22 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

You’re talking about someone who just blew away a record for unassisted three’s and is both high usage and highly efficient and maintain he needs someone else to make him successful?  

 

I mean he's shooting 36% in the playoffs so far....

[Rockethorn1978 6,203]

Some of you prove you’ve never played basketball in your life. Nowhere in the rule book does it state anything about where you land after a jump shot, every shooter is unique in their own way, you can go sideways, forward or backwards on any shot so it doesn’t matter if you shoot and land 3 feet away from your original take off point. Harden got run into by klay, the draymond one at the end wasn’t a foul in my eyes, but stating you are doing something illegal or wrong by jumping forward is like saying you can’t fade away 3 feet on a shot. You can’t initiate the contact no matter if you go straight up and down or 3 feet away.

[immortal13 4,059]

9 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Some of you prove you’ve never played basketball in your life. Nowhere in the rule book does it state anything about where you land after a jump shot, every shooter is unique in their own way, you can go sideways, forward or backwards on any shot so it doesn’t matter if you shoot and land 3 feet away from your original take off point. Harden got run into by klay, the draymond one at the end wasn’t a foul in my eyes, but stating you are doing something illegal or wrong by jumping forward is like saying you can’t fade away 3 feet on a shot. You can’t initiate the contact no matter if you go straight up and down or 3 feet away.

Oh please tell us stories of how you used to play and how good you were....

[52-80 19,373]

He's Derkas cousin

4 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Oh please tell us stories of how you used to play and how good you were....

 

[HtownHorn 15,243]

55 minutes ago, Zavala said:

You have to take that into consideration though - that is why the end got so crazy. They repeatedly did this shit and got away with it, it got in their heads. They don't want to leave on a stretcher like Kawaii. The Warriors play dirty, and they get away with it. I don't understand why the Rockets wouldn't do the exact same thing to them, and take out their best player. 

Because the Rockets can't get close to the Warrior shooters due to having to fight through multiple illegal screens.

[Vic Mackey 47,849]

Why do people even bother watching if it's all rigged? Shut the fuck up already. No problem watching in the regular season and up to this point but the second anything goes wrong, omg it's rigged!!! Jesus fucking christ. Would they have said it was rigged if their team won? Absolutely not. 

[Nolacycling 893]

Ok, so what do the Rockets and James Harden do differently next game? How do they adapt?

[52-80 19,373]

2 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

Why do people even bother watching if it's all rigged? Shut the fuck up already. No problem watching in the regular season and up to this point but the second anything goes wrong, omg it's rigged!!! Jesus fucking christ. Would they have said it was rigged if their team won? Absolutely not. 

It's amusing watching people shred their own intelligence, whatever little of it they have left

[Rockethorn1978 6,203]

21 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Oh please tell us stories of how you used to play and how good you were....

Tell me one thing in what I wrote that was wrong? Since you know so much. 

52-80 amazing how much time you have on your hands being so wealthy and rich. I am still laughing at what a complete loser you have to be on a fucking message board to say “I was eating pizza in Italy” lol!  Internet millionaires are so impressive.

[Huckleberry 34,407]

32 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Some of you prove you’ve never played basketball in your life. Nowhere in the rule book does it state anything about where you land after a jump shot, every shooter is unique in their own way, you can go sideways, forward or backwards on any shot so it doesn’t matter if you shoot and land 3 feet away from your original take off point. Harden got run into by klay, the draymond one at the end wasn’t a foul in my eyes, but stating you are doing something illegal or wrong by jumping forward is like saying you can’t fade away 3 feet on a shot. You can’t initiate the contact no matter if you go straight up and down or 3 feet away.

The only reason the 3 foot jump forward is being mentioned is because it directly determines who initiated contact. Nobody is saying it's illegal to jump forward, but if you jump 3 feet forward into a defender who jumped (approximately) vertically than you're the one who initiated contact. That's the entire point.

Your post proves that you've never comprehended written English in your life much more than other people's posts indicate they've never played basketball.

[Tylerocks 2,595]

3 minutes ago, Nolacycling said:

Ok, so what do the Rockets and James Harden do differently next game? How do they adapt?

Well they need to make 3's for 1.  Shooting like shit against the Warriors is not a recipe for success.

James went "hero"ball too much in game 1.  That being said he has to out of necessity sometimes. 

Capela was non-existent.

Faried?

Rivers should be an improvement over Shumpert.

[Rockethorn1978 6,203]

2 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

It's amusing watching people shred their own intelligence, whatever little of it they have left

Anyone agreeing with Vic and challenges another’s intelligence LOL! You’re an impressive human being man. Tell us more of how rich and amazing you are! 

[Rockethorn1978 6,203]

1 minute ago, Huckleberry said:

The only reason the 3 foot jump forward is being mentioned is because it directly determines who initiated contact. Nobody is saying it's illegal to jump forward, but if you jump 3 feet forward into a defender who jumped (approximately) vertically than you're the one who initiated contact. That's the entire point.

Your post proves that you've never comprehended written English in your life much more than other people's posts indicate they've never played basketball.

There were 3 other fouls that happened where that didn’t take place, Klay jumped into harden 3 times and no call. If you can’t be objective then don’t point out the one play that proves you are right. Because like I said, the draymond play wasn’t a foul. Did you read my post? Since you comprehend English so well.

[conVINCEd 21,477]

Just now, Rockethorn1978 said:

There were 3 other fouls that happened where that didn’t take place, Klay jumped into harden 3 times and no call. If you can’t be objective then don’t point out the one play that proves you are right. Because like I said, the draymond play wasn’t a foul. Did you read my post? Since you comprehend English so well.

He kicked his legs forward on most/all of them.  The last one was just the most absurd.

[Rockethorn1978 6,203]

Just now, conVINCEd said:

He kicked his legs forward on most/all of them.  The last one was just the most absurd.

So Steve javy a former official who came on and said those three were fouls is also wrong? The announcers? Jalen rose and Paul Pierce? All wrong too? And he didn’t kick his legs on those and it wasn’t even close. Clearly you can’t be objective. 

[immortal13 4,059]

10 minutes ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

Tell me one thing in what I wrote that was wrong? Since you know so much. 

52-80 amazing how much time you have on your hands being so wealthy and rich. I am still laughing at what a complete loser you have to be on a fucking message board to say “I was eating pizza in Italy” lol!  Internet millionaires are so impressive.

Lighten up, Francis

[Rockethorn1978 6,203]

Ok no more official bitching. Doesn’t matter now.

i will say this if Houston loses tomorrow it’s over, because they won’t win 4 straight and they aren’t winning game 7 in Oakland.

[immortal13 4,059]

11 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

The only reason the 3 foot jump forward is being mentioned is because it directly determines who initiated contact. Nobody is saying it's illegal to jump forward, but if you jump 3 feet forward into a defender who jumped (approximately) vertically than you're the one who initiated contact. That's the entire point.

Your post proves that you've never comprehended written English in your life much more than other people's posts indicate they've never played basketball.

This

[Patrick Bateman 3,966]

1 hour ago, Zavala said:

 

They admitted they missed these to the coaches. 

 

IMO, the NBA has these issues because they've done a poor job in defining such things as they have a couple of principles at work.  IMO, the first isn't a foul.  Harden jumped forward, Klay jumped forward.  So you have the principle of verticality and the space shouldn't be reserved.  A jump shooter goes up vertical or fades then absolutely they should be given a landing zone.  I object to anyone comparing any of these fouls to Kawhi, so please stop.  Kawhi faded away by a foot and Zaza came under him even as he faded.  There are two fouls here as Klay hit James on two jump shots in which he went up vertical.  IMO, there is no foul on Draymond as he wouldn't have hit Harden and James knew it and kicked his legs out.  

And let's not pretend the Rockets not only teach trying to draw fouls with the landing zone principle, but they track, record, and lobby the NBA politically in trying to get more of these fouls.  They kick their legs up, stick their hips out, and jump forward many, many times to try and get these calls.  There is a quiet campaign by Morey (and Cuban btw, Dallas fans) to enforce the LZ principle more aggressively and IMO, it's a reason less people are tuning in to the NBA as they've gotten tired of some of this type of basketball.  I absolutely believe in protecting players and jump shooters, but perhaps not rewarding them when they compromise their verticality earlier in the season would be best so they can get used to better rules and a more enjoyable brand of basketball.  You lean forward, jump forward, stick any body part outside of going up vertically then you lose your landing zone protections, this is how it should be.  So I understand both points, but the snapback of Houston's constant politicking around this problem cost them a couple of fouls yesterday.

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[aggie08 21,735]

Here's a really good article from 2017 showing how Harden has very much earned the reputation that he constantly has to fight against in the playoffs:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/fivethirtyeight.com/features/james-harden-gets-fouled-on-3s-more-than-any-nba-team/amp/

With a nice little nugget at the end, showing how these kind of calls can just as easily go the other way, even against the Warriors:

Teams will do their best to stop Harden from using the trick once the postseason starts. But if last year’s playoffs are any indication, that may not work, either: Harden drew five whistles on just 42 3-point attempts. Three of those fouls came in one half, in a game against the Warriors.