2nd Round: Warriors vs. Rockets

[hobbes2702 12844]

How many titles did LeBron win without Kyrie or Wade?

How many titles did Kawhi win without Manu and Tim?

 

[Pam Cummings 9581]

Just now, hobbes2702 said:

Those guys beaten him a lot in recent years?

Lmao. If Kawhi and Durant switched teams who do you think would have a better chance at winning the championship?

[hobbes2702 12844]

Just now, Pam Cummings said:

Lmao. If Kawhi and Durant switched teams who do you think would have a better chance at winning the championship?

So Kawhi needs other players to win titles too? You don’t say...

[aggie08 21434]

Just now, FondrenRoad said:

The one player you mentioned here, Draymond, played like shit until KD went down. And then played like a beast. 

Do what now? By what metric (besides 3pt shooting and cheap shots) has he played like shit? He's averaging 13, 9, and 8 this postseason, and he's been everywhere defensively. His resurrection after a piss poor regular season has been one of the big stories of the playoffs.

[hobbes2702 12844]

Just now, aggie08 said:

Do what now? By what metric (besides 3pt shooting and cheap shots) has he played like shit? He's averaging 13, 9, and 8 this postseason, and he's been everywhere defensively. His resurrection after a piss poor regular season has been one of the big stories of the playoffs.

He’s been awesome the entire playoffs. He and KD both pretty clearly flipped the switch when the playoffs started.

[TheFlyingBoat 906]

59 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

This thread is funny. The same morons who said Durant's move to Golden State killed the NBA now say they're better without him? So were y'all morons now, then, or both?

Don't worry, we know the answer.

The basketball forum should be locked and this should be the only visible post.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

You guys are arguing the same point. Everyone on the team is more engaged when KD isn’t out there. Steph mentally turns into Robin, and Klay doesn’t get the touches to be nearly as effective as he can be when he’s at his best. 

KD is the best player on the planet (except for maybe playoff Kawhi), but when KD isn’t out there, Steph is a fucking killer. One of the best players ever. It just isn’t the same when KD is out there. 

[Pam Cummings 9581]

3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

So Kawhi needs other players to win titles too? You don’t say...

So then what is the point of bringing up "well who beat who more lately?" And that's ignoring the fact that Kawhi spent all of last year being a bitch, and the last time we saw him before that he was carving up the Warriors in the game where he got Zaza'd.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Pam Cummings

[totallynotabuttpirate 5342]

Just now, aggie08 said:

Do what now? By what metric (besides 3pt shooting and cheap shots) has he played like shit? He's averaging 13, 9, and 8 this postseason, and he's been everywhere defensively. His resurrection after a piss poor regular season has been one of the big stories of the playoffs.

I feel like you're arguing with a dinner table. Every take, worse than the last. Bravo to you though for doing it. 

Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows that Draymond has been playing insanely well coordinating the defense this whole series. The defense really suffers when he's on the bench. And his passing has also been on point. Looks like a totally different player than the regular season. 

[hobbes2702 12844]

Just now, Pam Cummings said:

So then what is the point of bringing up "well who beat who more lately?" And that's ignoring the fact that Kawhi spent all of last year being a bitch.

Because head to head still matters and KD outplayed LeBron for two years in a row. 

Sorry Kawhi sat out this year. Maybe we can see them go at it in the finals and Kawhi can take the torch. Until then it’s KD

[Pam Cummings 9581]

4 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Do what now? By what metric (besides 3pt shooting and cheap shots) has he played like shit? He's averaging 13, 9, and 8 this postseason, and he's been everywhere defensively. His resurrection after a piss poor regular season has been one of the big stories of the playoffs.

Yup. Everyone was worried about him going in and he has more than shown up.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, TheFlyingBoat said:

That has to be stupidest line of argumentation I've ever seen in my life. He may not be #1 but how does him being on GSW disqualify him from being the best player in the world?

It doesn't, but he joined a championship team.  We knew they could win a championship without him. You take LeBron off the Cavs and they suck balls. You take KD off the Warriors and they are still the same championship squad they were before he showed up like they showed tonight. 

For sure, KD has never taken a middling team over the hump.  He couldnt do it in OKC.  LeBron did it with the Cavs.  But even LeBron can't take a garbage team over the hump like the Lakers. Team matters. But the reality is that GS didn't need KD to win a title. It wasn't even a Shaq to LA and then Miami situation.  It was a Shaq to the Bulls or Spurs situation. It was a great player joining a team that was already the best in the league.  

[A’Dam Psycho 1469]

5 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

It doesn't, but he joined a championship team.  We knew they could win a championship without him. You take LeBron off the Cavs and they suck balls. You take KD off the Warriors and they are still the same championship squad they were before he showed up like they showed tonight. 

For sure, KD has never taken a middling team over the hump.  He couldnt do it in OKC.  LeBron did it with the Cavs.  But even LeBron can't take a garbage team over the hump like the Lakers. Team matters. But the reality is that GS didn't need KD to win a title. It wasn't even a Shaq to LA and then Miami situation.  It was a Shaq to the Bulls or Spurs situation. It was a great player joining a team that was already the best in the league.  

He took them to the finals. Lebron had Kyrie and Love. What do you mean middling? I’m convinced you don’t actually watch bro

Edited May 11, 2019 by A’Dam Psycho

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

He took them to the finals

And they lost. 

[satyanash 14281]

1 minute ago, FondrenRoad said:

And they lost. 

The loss had nothing to do with KD. He scored 30.6 ppg shooting 55% from the field at 40% from downtown in the Finals.

If anyone lost OKC those finals, it was Harden. His play was abysmal.

[A’Dam Psycho 1469]

Just now, FondrenRoad said:

And they lost. 

To a super team. I’m honestly not understanding your point. You’re sounding like a serious Bronsexual

[FondrenRoad 4378]

18 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

You guys are arguing the same point. Everyone on the team is more engaged when KD isn’t out there. Steph mentally turns into Robin, and Klay doesn’t get the touches to be nearly as effective as he can be when he’s at his best. 

KD is the best player on the planet (except for maybe playoff Kawhi), but when KD isn’t out there, Steph is a fucking killer. One of the best players ever. It just isn’t the same when KD is out there. 

Yep. Rockets win close games with KD in and lose close games when he is out. And Curry is the difference. He killed this game.  And GS still scored 118. They had everyone involved and they played like it. When KD takes his 35 out of that 118, some players become less engaged, including Curry. 

In game 4, Houston squandered a lead and KD and Curry both bricked 3s to tie the game.  If KD is out, the game goes mostly the same way, but Curry makes that 3. 

[A’Dam Psycho 1469]

2 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Yep. Rockets win close games with KD in and lose close games when he is out. And Curry is the difference. He killed this game.  And GS still scored 118. They had everyone involved and they played like it. When KD takes his 35 out of that 118, some players become less engaged, including Curry. 

In game 4, Houston squandered a lead and KD and Curry both bricked 3s to tie the game.  If KD is out, the game goes mostly the same way, but Curry makes that 3. 

Lol Goodnight bro

Edited May 11, 2019 by A’Dam Psycho

[Surly Bevo 24696]

I would say that if other players play less interested with fortune and glory on the line because of the particular line-up/individual out there with them then that’s a poor reflection on those particular players. In any sport...ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

2 minutes ago, satyanash said:

The loss had nothing to do with KD. He scored 30.6 ppg shooting 55% from the field at 40% from downtown in the Finals.

If anyone lost OKC those finals, it was Harden. His play was abysmal.

I get it. He scored a lot and excelled at individual statistics.  How many assists per game did he have?  He could have scored 50 a game. Other team is gonna score at least 90. He needs to involve and excite his teammates. 

Harden was a 6th man on OKC. The best player on a team needs to make the other players around him better. Jordan made fucking Tony Kukoc a star. Does KD ever make anyone around him better?  I haven't seen it from him.

That he makes an NBA champion still capable of being an NBA champion doesnt mean much. 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

9 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

Lol Goodnight bro

Goodnight to you as well bro. 

[Machinator 32097]

Thank God this series is over. Every possible talking point has been beaten to death.

[LTtxfan 48977]

Thank God for the ignor user feature...... 😀

[aggie08 21434]

Houston bet the house on doubling and trapping Curry every time down, daring anyone else to beat them, and they got burned for it.

That said, you could play that game out 100 times, and I'm not sure Iggy hits 5 threes and Livingston drops in 11 in the same game ever again. Seriously, every time Houston built up a 5, 6, or 7 point lead, Iggy hit a 3. Unreal. Cliche to say, but heart of a champion.

[aggie08 21434]

Steph with his back up against the wall:

Game 4 2015 Finals- 22-7-2

Game 5 2015 Finals- 37-7-4

Game 6 2015 Finals- 25-8-6

Game 5 2016 WCF- 31-7-6-5

Game 6 2016 WCF- 31-10-9 (the Klay game)

Game 7 2016 WCF- 36-5-8

Game 6 2018 WCF- 29-5-6 Game 7 2018 WCF- 27-8-9

Game 6 2019 WCSF- 33 points in the second half

Not a bad way to cap what was truly an awful series for him.

(I know, I know, no mention of the 2016 Finals Game 7... can't win 'em all)

Edited May 11, 2019 by aggie08

[hobbes2702 12844]

Man watching the highlights again and PJ Tucker is fucking awesome. I’m not saying he’s always perfect or even great but he just fucking works. Incredible player and easily my favorite horn in the league.

Edited May 11, 2019 by hobbes2702

[52-80 19096]

5 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

The regular season is super important 

#1 seed won the titles 7 of the last 10 years so yeah the regular season is pretty indicative of championship potential

[victory88 5659]

We have some really stupid basketball fans on here.  I mean really stupid.  The warriors themselves say Durant carried them.  Listen to any of the player interviews. It's not like Steph was disengaged when Durant was playing with them.  He just wasn't hitting his shots.  Neither was Klay.  It's a testament to them that they stepped up with him not being there.  And please shut the fuck up about the warriors being better without Durant.  He was their finals MVP for their last two championships.  Ask Steve Kerr why they rely on Durant so much.  It's because he's the best player on the team.  Everyone on the team knows this.  This is not a situation like OKC where there's tension between Westbrook and Durant about who needs to have the ball in their hands.  Steph and company wanted him to join because they know they needed him.  They are going to try very hard to get him to re-sign.  

Also, I'm so tired of hearing the bitching about Durant's success not counting because he's playing with other great players.  The dude took OKC to the finals and had them consistently in the finals conversation.  He had GS on the ropes 3-1 and no one else on that team helped worth a shit in that series.  OKC is also cheap as hell and they have to rely on the draft and cannot get big names to join.  Playing with Westbrook is a nightmare.  He hogs the ball and plays recklessly.  Look at the drop off since Durant left.  They are a bottom half playoff team without him.  He was never going to win a championship there.   I'm not sure why Steph or other players don't get the same criticism.  Steph has always had 2 other all star players on his team.  Lebron had Wade and Bosh in their prime.  He had Kyrie and Love (when he was still an all star caliber player).  In today's NBA, you cannot win without other great players.   Lebron is still a top two player and look at what he accomplished with shitty players on the lakers.  No other players get the criticism Durant gets.  The guy is having a historic playoff success and yet we have people here saying the Warriors are better without him...

 

 

[Pam Cummings 9581]

2 hours ago, victory88 said:

We have some really stupid basketball fans on here.  I mean really stupid.  The warriors themselves say Durant carried them.  Listen to any of the player interviews. It's not like Steph was disengaged when Durant was playing with them.  He just wasn't hitting his shots.  Neither was Klay.  It's a testament to them that they stepped up with him not being there.  And please shut the fuck up about the warriors being better without Durant.  He was their finals MVP for their last two championships.  Ask Steve Kerr why they rely on Durant so much.  It's because he's the best player on the team.  Everyone on the team knows this.  This is not a situation like OKC where there's tension between Westbrook and Durant about who needs to have the ball in their hands.  Steph and company wanted him to join because they know they needed him.  They are going to try very hard to get him to re-sign.  

Also, I'm so tired of hearing the bitching about Durant's success not counting because he's playing with other great players.  The dude took OKC to the finals and had them consistently in the finals conversation.  He had GS on the ropes 3-1 and no one else on that team helped worth a shit in that series.  OKC is also cheap as hell and they have to rely on the draft and cannot get big names to join.  Playing with Westbrook is a nightmare.  He hogs the ball and plays recklessly.  Look at the drop off since Durant left.  They are a bottom half playoff team without him.  He was never going to win a championship there.   I'm not sure why Steph or other players don't get the same criticism.  Steph has always had 2 other all star players on his team.  Lebron had Wade and Bosh in their prime.  He had Kyrie and Love (when he was still an all star caliber player).  In today's NBA, you cannot win without other great players.   Lebron is still a top two player and look at what he accomplished with shitty players on the lakers.  No other players get the criticism Durant gets.  The guy is having a historic playoff success and yet we have people here saying the Warriors are better without him...

 

 

Nice try, but no. Having Kyrie and Love or Wade and Bosh isn't the same thing as joining the Warriors.

Yeah, everyone needs good teammates to win. Durant just needed 3 other hall of fame level players. If Durant and Harden had switched teams last year, guess what, Harden would have a ring too.

Bron's one championship in Cleveland is worth 10 Durant Warriors championships to me.

Edited May 11, 2019 by Pam Cummings

[Thatguy 8504]

Basketball is a rhythm game, and there is only one ball. If you introduce a guy who is going to get a lot of touches then other people aren't. It's that simple. All it takes is for a shooter to fall down the rotation of shots just a little bit and they start missing.

The W's are a good team without KD. However, KD makes them almost unbeatable. To suggest otherwise is plain silly. The problem with them is that they know it. So they dont turn it on until they get their backs up against the wall. We saw it last year as well. They didnt really play hard until they got to the Cavs.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[aggie08 21434]

8 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Basketball is a rhythm game, and there is only one ball. If you introduce a guy who is going to get a lot of touches then other people aren't. It's that simple. All it takes is for a shooter to fall down the rotation of shots just a little bit and they start missing.

The W's are a good team without KD. However, KD makes them almost unbeatable. To suggest otherwise is plain silly. The problem with them is that they know it. So they dont turn it on until they get their backs up against the wall. We saw it last year as well. They didnt really play hard until they got to the Cavs.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

I agree with all this, up until the very last part. They played plenty hard against the Rockets last year (if not always particularly well). It was a not so well kept secret that they were extremely motivated to wipe they floor with Houston in the WCF because of all the talking they had done. They tried, but Houston was really fucking good, and defended their asses off.

The Rockets weren't quite as good this year, though I thought Harden played much better this series than he did in the WCF. Still not enough though. This one is going to sting.

Obligatory: fuck Chris Paul.

[HookEm 2444]

Wade > Curry but close
Bosh = Klay
Ray Allen
Miami was only 5 years removed from winning a title.

The only difference is that LeBron assembled the team instead of joining it. I suppose what Ray Allen did is most similar to Durant.

If Durant had kept the nice guy image everyone would have moved on by now.

[d2o 1602]

22 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Wade > Curry but close
Bosh = Klay
Ray Allen
Miami was only 5 years removed from winning a title.

The only difference is that LeBron assembled the team instead of joining it. I suppose what Ray Allen did is most similar to Durant.

If Durant had kept the nice guy image everyone would have moved on by now.

I love Wade more than most of the guys here but........dafuq??

Wade was among the top 5 players in the league when LBJ went to MIA.   Steph was the back to back MVP coming off a 73 win season.

Ray Allen joined the Heat in the 3rd season the big 3 got together.

Most importantly the Heat lost int he first round the yr before LBJ joined them.  

 

Edited May 11, 2019 by d2o

[NowThis 931]

scoring 26 in the 4th isn't bad, but giving up 36 is over the top.  Can't really fault the Rockets players for their offensive production -  The Splash duo just went off, hitting miracle shot after miracle shot, guys in their face with perfect D , double teamed, DID NOT MATTER. Splash!.  2 of the best bombers of all time, just can't be covered. 

Imagine a WR duo of Jerry Rice and Randy Moss. Literally, that's what we had to cover with regular dudes who played well and gave 100% effort.  Just outmatched in talent. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

32 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Wade > Curry but close
Bosh = Klay
Ray Allen
Miami was only 5 years removed from winning a title.

The only difference is that LeBron assembled the team instead of joining it. I suppose what Ray Allen did is most similar to Durant.

If Durant had kept the nice guy image everyone would have moved on by now.

Wade is better than curry, yet curry was a back to back mvp, and the first ever unanimous mvp in the history of the league (wade never won a single mvp). But wade was better than Steph, huh? Wade doesn’t even believe that. And I’m not just talking mvp. Having to account for Steph and Klay from a team defense standpoint is different than having to account for wade. Ray Allen made a huge shot in the finals, but at that point in his career he was a shell of his former self. And when you say Miami was 5 years removed from winning s title, it’s not even in the same ballpark as what KD did. KD literally joined the team that won more regular season games than any in the history of the sport. A team that was a bone headed Draymond Green suspension away from winning that series in 5 or 6 and going back to back. Lebron joined a team that got bounced the first round the previous year and added one star. Nobody liked that move either, but it’s not nearly as bad as what KD did (especially considering it was the team he was up 3-1 against, and lost).

They can say all the right things if they want, but this team didn’t NEED KD. Would they be as dominant without him, probably not, but a full year of those guys knowing they can’t count on KD and they still finish as a top 2 team in the west. Steph and Klay would be completely different players, and they would probably be viewed as such if KD weren’t there. They count on him too much without getting back to the beautiful warriors basketball that won them a championship before KD got there.

Edited May 11, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[TommyGufano 6021]

I don't know why yall are giving him a hard time. I want to see him keep going. There' s a lot of meat left on that bone.

Norris Cole > Iguodala 

Draymond = Jamal Magloire 

Erick Dampier > David West

The 2006 championship Heat were very relevant. The 15-67 2008 Heat are not worth mentioning.

[aggie08 21434]

So does this end all of the "We would have won with CP" talk from last year, or nah?

If anything, last night makes a damn compelling case that last year's WCF would have been over in 5 with Iggy out there.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

So does this end all of the "We would have won with CP" talk from last year, or nah?

If anything, last night makes a damn compelling case that last year's WCF would have been over in 5 with Iggy out there.

Not necessarily, but I can’t wait for them to audit this series and explain to us how they would’ve beat this team if not for the refs.

[aggie08 21434]

I'm glad somebody said it. Even if we're just talking playoffs--where Wade earned a deserved reputation as a beast--Curry is significantly better. When you factor in regular season, it's no contest.

[aggie08 21434]

4 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Not necessarily, but I can’t wait for them to audit this series and explain to us how they would’ve beat this team if not for the refs.

Maybe there were a few uncalled defensive 3 second calls on Houston right before Steph's 3's. Everyone knows that, with the free throw and possession, those possessions would have only been worth an estimated 2.06894 points had the refs called more infractions on the Rockets.

[TommyGufano 6021]

11 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

So does this end all of the "We would have won with CP" talk from last year, or nah?

If anything, last night makes a damn compelling case that last year's WCF would have been over in 5 with Iggy out there.

I'd listen to an argument that 2018 CP was more important to Houston's success than 2019 CP. But he did get hurt last year. So it doesn't matter.

[Machinator 32097]

29 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Wade is better than curry, yet curry was a back to back mvp, and the first ever unanimous mvp in the history of the league (wade never won a single mvp). But wade was better than Steph, huh? Wade doesn’t even believe that. And I’m not just talking mvp. Having to account for Steph and Klay from a team defense standpoint is different than having to account for wade. Ray Allen made a huge shot in the finals, but at that point in his career he was a shell of his former self. And when you say Miami was 5 years removed from winning s title, it’s not even in the same ballpark as what KD did. KD literally joined the team that won more regular season games than any in the history of the sport. A team that was a bone headed Draymond Green suspension away from winning that series in 5 or 6 and going back to back. Lebron joined a team that got bounced the first round the previous year and added one star. Nobody liked that move either, but it’s not nearly as bad as what KD did (especially considering it was the team he was up 3-1 against, and lost).

They can say all the right things if they want, but this team didn’t NEED KD. Would they be as dominant without him, probably not, but a full year of those guys knowing they can’t count on KD and they still finish as a top 2 team in the west. Steph and Klay would be completely different players, and they would probably be viewed as such if KD weren’t there. They count on him too much without getting back to the beautiful warriors basketball that won them a championship before KD got there.

I think they need a healthy KD to beat the Bucks and Giannis.

[aggie08 21434]

2 minutes ago, Machinator said:

I think they need a healthy KD to beat the Bucks and Giannis.

I agree. Which is weird to say when, even without KD, Golden State probably has 3 of the best 4 players in a potential series. But they wouldn't have the best player.

Milwaukee has a real '14-'15 Warriors vibe to them. Young, super hungry team who is quickly realizing how scary good they are. Led by a transcendent, unstoppable superstar on the verge of taking over the league. In other words, even better than the sum of their parts.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

15 minutes ago, Machinator said:

I think they need a healthy KD to beat the Bucks and Giannis.

Let’s say, hypothetically, that they don’t get a healthy KD back. Maybe he doesn’t recover like they expect him to, and he doesn’t return this postseason. Do you think, deep down, KD is rooting for Milwaukee a little bit? Sure those are his boys, but he’s obviously had his back and forth with Draymond where Draymond was suspended for essentially saying “we don’t need you, we can win without you. Like we did before you got here.” That was “conduct detrimental to the team” lol

[d2o 1602]

1 minute ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Let’s say, hypothetically, that they don’t get a healthy KD back. Maybe he doesn’t recover like they expect him to, and he doesn’t return this postseason. Do you think, deep down, KD is rooting for Milwaukee a little bit? Sure those are his boys, but he’s obviously had his back and forth with Draymond where Draymond was suspended for essentially saying “we don’t need you, we can win without you. Like we did before you got here.” That was “conduct detrimental to the team” lol

No.

[A’Dam Psycho 1469]

4 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Let’s say, hypothetically, that they don’t get a healthy KD back. Maybe he doesn’t recover like they expect him to, and he doesn’t return this postseason. Do you think, deep down, KD is rooting for Milwaukee a little bit? Sure those are his boys, but he’s obviously had his back and forth with Draymond where Draymond was suspended for essentially saying “we don’t need you, we can win without you. Like we did before you got here.” That was “conduct detrimental to the team” lol

Durant was on twitter posting pictures celebrating Warriors win. So no

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

5 minutes ago, A’Dam Psycho said:

Durant was on twitter posting pictures celebrating Warriors win. So no

Well of course not last night. His only chance of returning this year was if GS went to the next round. He’s obviously rooting for that. I’m saying if he can’t return at all and they go on to win the championship without him (somehow), that would really play into the “that was the greatest team of all time that he joined, and they didn’t NEED him to keep winning titles. He just made it a lot easier” narrative. 

Edited May 11, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[NowThis 931]

52 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

I don't know why yall are giving him a hard time. I want to see him keep going. There' s a lot of meat left on that bone.

Norris Cole > Iguodala 

Draymond = Jamal Magloire 

Erick Dampier > David West

The 2006 championship Heat were very relevant. The 15-67 2008 Heat are not worth mentioning.

did i just read that Norris Cole is better than Iggy?  lulz 

[d2o 1602]

8 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Well of course not last night. His only chance of returning this year was if GS went to the next round. He’s obviously rooting for that. I’m saying if he can’t return at all and they go on to win the championship without him (somehow), that would really play into the “that was the greatest team of all time that he joined, and they didn’t NEED him to keep winning titles. He just made it a lot easier” narrative. 

Win or lose this yr that narrative is and will always be there

 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

You’re missing the joke, NowThis. He’s just making fun of the idea that someone would say Wade is better than Steph.