2019 San Antonio Spurs Offseason Thread -- Rebuild or Run it Back?

[housious 468]

Later in his career he was decent from mid range. But yeah, he kinda sucked at shooting the ol basketball.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

I guess I phrased that wrong.  I knew he was never a great shooter, but his form was consistent. 

[miguelito 11266]

3 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

This is a Jayhawk level terrible take. Granted, he hit the absolute most important one that he ever took, but he was an abortion of jump shooter. He might have been the worst jump shooting point guard that I can ever remember in the NBA, and almost certainly the worst shooting starting point guard on an NBA champion. He was so bad that teams just refused to guard him outside of about 15 feet. They went under every screen. They never rotated toward him. I get PTSD even watching replays of him rise up for that odd angled left handed garbage push shot. When he took that baseline jumper against the Knicks, I shouted "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!" at the top of my lungs. Even when I watch the replay of it, I still expect him to miss it. 

You and me and a shit load of other people.  "Not Avery!"

God bless him.

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

Reportedly had a good year and made improvements.  With only 1 roster spot open, Pop certainly didn't want another rookie on the roster.  Next year I would imagine he'll have a better shot of coming over as there should be more roster spots as a bunch of our money should be cleared or up for extensions.

[Machinator 32099]

 

[miguelito 11266]

Damn, I guess I got cut.

[Chad 1728]

Marcus Morris or JaMychal Green would be nice fits with the MLE. LMA at the 5 and Green at the 4 would be a nice combo they'd compliment each other's skill sets.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

17 minutes ago, Chad said:

Marcus Morris or JaMychal Green would be nice fits with the MLE. LMA at the 5 and Green at the 4 would be a nice combo they'd compliment each other's skill sets.

I don't think the MLE will be enough for either one of those guys.

With regard to the Summer League roster.... they have some talent this year. Also, Thomas Robinson? He's spent more time in Las Vegas than Caesar's Palace.

[angelfacedmongoloid 80]

Some interesting names on that list. Jordan Barnett for one, good to see him get a shot. And Billy Donovan III on the coaching staff.

[Chad 1728]

13 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

I don't think the MLE will be enough for either one of those guys.

With regard to the Summer League roster.... they have some talent this year. Also, Thomas Robinson? He's spent more time in Las Vegas than Caesar's Palace.

Unfortunately you're probably right, they'll likely fetch more than the MLE. Morris would fit in perfectly and Green has developed into a decent player, either one would strengthen the roster. I'll just hope the Spurs can add a viable big with the MLE.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Wasnt jamychal green on the Spurs roster several years ago?  

[Radical Larry 28648]

Yes he was.

[Tigersnake 670]

Back-up big is a big project for the off season, but I don't see a free agent that we could afford who would move the needle. I am interested in seeing how Darel Poirer performs in summer league. His G-League highlights are really good : good post moves, runs the floor, can shoot with range, a ton of blocks. 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

On 6/28/2019 at 2:05 PM, Tigersnake said:

Back-up big is a big project for the off season, but I don't see a free agent that we could afford who would move the needle. I am interested in seeing how Darel Poirer performs in summer league. His G-League highlights are really good : good post moves, runs the floor, can shoot with range, a ton of blocks. 

I'm pretty sure spurs are the mystery team that offered horford.  We're trading patty and bertans to the same idiot team that Minnesota thinks it's trading Wiggins to.  That should be enough cap space. 

[LTtxfan 49287]

 

[Radical Larry 28648]

Don't expect much to happen outside of re-signing Gay. We have the full MLE.

 

 

 

[Kermit 3157]

1 hour ago, Radical Larry said:

Don't expect much to happen outside of re-signing Gay. We have the full MLE.

 

 

 

Gross.

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

4 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

I'm pretty sure spurs are the mystery team that offered horford.  We're trading patty and bertans to the same idiot team that Minnesota thinks it's trading Wiggins to.  That should be enough cap space. 

Or not....

 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Hey man,I'm just trying to stay optimistic here.  A man can dream!

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

22 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Hey man,I'm just trying to stay optimistic here.  A man can dream!

LOL.  No worries, it just wouldn't open up the necessary space for him even with trading those 2 guys.  Trying to convince Boogie to accept the full MLE is probably more realistic.  He'll probably get offers between 11-15m though and would have ot want to come here to play for Pop.

I'm hopeful that we trade DeRozan at some point this year.

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[Machinator 32099]

 

[Radical Larry 28648]

#6 is in the bag.

[Michael Knight 12989]

game

 

changer

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

3 minutes ago, Machinator said:

 

4 years ago and would have like to have him.  Basically takes Poindexter's spot.  It's a big pile of Meh.  Looking for 45 wins with a bullet!

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[Chad 1728]

This is exactly the way I expected free agency to go down, the Spurs had practically zero flexibility. Rudy's contract isn't a back breaker, the Spurs have two true wings on the roster which they lacked last season and the young talent will continue to develop. I'd expect the Spurs to move Marco or Forbes for a big if they can't sign one with the MLE. I did see several projections of Green back to the Spurs on the MLE which I wouldn't complain about. No high expectations for 2019-2020, maybe a 5 seed at the highest?

[BurdineBandit 815]

Consensus on Spurs twitter and PtR seems to be that Carroll is a great fit and not just a replacement for Poindexter/Cunningham, but a big upgrade. I didn't know much about the dude, but he appears to be a PJ Tucker type of player that averages a couple more ppg than PJ ever did (granted low offensive usage in Houston). I like it. The only real big splash I was intrigued by would've been Bojan, nobody else really seemed feasible/likely.

[angelfacedmongoloid 80]

Really wish we could've got Ed Davis. Signed in Utah for $10m for 2 years. Oh well

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

That's 15 signed right?  I guess metu better be ready.  Or there are some trades to be made.  

[Kermit 3157]

It’s a good thing Metu is playing Summer League so the Spurs can assess his development...oh wait. 

[ztejas 43495]

17 hours ago, Chad said:

maybe a 5 seed at the highest?

5 seed at the highest? What 4 teams are you taking over a healthy Spurs roster without even thinking about it? 

I can't name one unless the Lake show gets Kawhi. West is wide open. 

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

3 hours ago, BurdineBandit said:

Consensus on Spurs twitter and PtR seems to be that Carroll is a great fit and not just a replacement for Poindexter/Cunningham, but a big upgrade. I didn't know much about the dude, but he appears to be a PJ Tucker type of player that averages a couple more ppg than PJ ever did (granted low offensive usage in Houston). I like it. The only real big splash I was intrigued by would've been Bojan, nobody else really seemed feasible/likely.

Foundation bias.  Just hype.  He's a nice steady vet who can do some different things but this doesn't move the needle at all.

1 hour ago, Kermit said:

It’s a good thing Metu is playing Summer League so the Spurs can assess his development...oh wait. 

Has it been announced he's missing the entire SL season?  I know he's missing the first stint but thought they were hoping he could play the 2nd leg.

24 minutes ago, ztejas said:

5 seed at the highest? What 4 teams are you taking over a healthy Spurs roster without even thinking about it? 

I can't name one unless the Lake show gets Kawhi. West is wide open. 

Denver, Utah, Houston (still but we'll see what they do), Lakers (they'll fill out), Portland, OKC (probably), and that's without knowing what the Warriors will be or how quickly the Cans can become good.  We'll have to see how good and how much marginal utility DJM can provide but basically we're a year older + DJM from last year's squad.  So White, Murray, Jakob and hopefully Lonnie should be better but LMA, Marco, Patty and Rudy may all recede.  

[Kermit 3157]

29 minutes ago, ztejas said:

5 seed at the highest? What 4 teams are you taking over a healthy Spurs roster without even thinking about it? 

I can't name one unless the Lake show gets Kawhi. West is wide open. 

Utah, Denver, Houston maybe?

[ztejas 43495]

I wouldn't take Houston over us. Probably give y'all Denver. Maybe on Utah. 

We'll see. Not sure I see any 60 win teams - seems like a lot will be in the 55-56 range which I think we can get to.

Not saying I would be surprised if we're the 5 seed - but I don't think that is this teams ceiling. 

[Kermit 3157]

29 minutes ago, ztejas said:

5 seed at the highest? What 4 teams are you taking over a healthy Spurs roster without even thinking about it? 

I can't name one unless the Lake show gets Kawhi. West is wide open. 

Utah, Denver, Houston maybe?

[ztejas 43495]

I wouldn't take Houston over us. Probably give y'all Denver. Maybe on Utah. 

We'll see. Not sure I see any 60 win teams - seems like a lot will be in the 55-56 range which I think we can get to.

Not saying I would be surprised if we're the 5 seed - but I don't think that is this teams ceiling.

[Chad 1728]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

5 seed at the highest? What 4 teams are you taking over a healthy Spurs roster without even thinking about it? 

I can't name one unless the Lake show gets Kawhi. West is wide open. 

Denver is going to be very good again, quite possibly the #1 seed in the west. Portland had a nice off season. The Jazz have a pretty solid roster assembled. Houston is a toss up, it could really go either way. I'm just basing it off how things presently stand. If the Lakers pull a shocker and land Kawhi they're the unquestionable #1 in the west with Denver/Portland fighting for #2.

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Shoot, I'd be happy with a 5 seed.  Pop  won't burn out his guys to chase seeding.  But I'm pretty sure all the Spurs championships came as a 1 or 2 seeds.  Looks like they got 2007 as a #3.

 

[BurdineBandit 815]

I will never underestimate what two plus (plus-plus) defenders at guard can do. The Rockets want to run back another season of Harden-ball with 35 year old CP3? Not scared. The Jazz want to run 32 year-old Mike Conley and Jamaal Murray at us? Not scared. I would be a lot more confident if the Splash Brothers were healthy and we had to play them too. Not scared. Two solid guards on defense with an improvement from DJM gets us extra wins this year.

I was counting on extra wins last year since LaMarcus had to carry us during Kawhi's holdout year, but that was also assuming our only defensive stopper was going to be on the team for at least one regular season game. He wasn't. Now we have a healthy rotation on the bench and hopefully LW to replace Marco. This organization's identity is centered around solid defensive play, and we haven't been able to get that for two years because for two years in a row our best defensive player has missed the year due to injury. Let's try it again.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18550]

4 hours ago, BurdineBandit said:

Consensus on Spurs twitter and PtR seems to be that Carroll is a great fit and not just a replacement for Poindexter/Cunningham, but a big upgrade. I didn't know much about the dude, but he appears to be a PJ Tucker type of player that averages a couple more ppg than PJ ever did (granted low offensive usage in Houston). I like it. The only real big splash I was intrigued by would've been Bojan, nobody else really seemed feasible/likely.

Carroll is 33 years old and has probably lost half a step but there's no question he fills the need for another wing and he's an upgrade at what they had there last year. Plus, the price is right and he will come off the books in two years at the same time as Aldridge, Derozen (if he opts in), Mills and Gay. It's an almost no risk deal for the Spurs and there's no question that he makes them better.

 

27 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I wouldn't take Houston over us. Probably give y'all Denver. Maybe on Utah. 

We'll see. Not sure I see any 60 win teams - seems like a lot will be in the 55-56 range which I think we can get to.

Not saying I would be surprised if we're the 5 seed - but I don't think that is this teams ceiling. 

I hate the Rockets but for sure they are better than the Spurs. The Rockets mailed in the first half of the season and still won 53 games. Harden makes my eyeballs ache but he is a gotdamned witch. Denver is only getting better as their young players mature. Depending on what happens with the Lakers and Kawhi, Utah almost certainly had the best off season of any team that didn't win the Zion lottery or sign Kevin Durant. Adding Conley and Bogdanovic to that core elevates them to near the top of the west. Speaking of the Lakers, they have Lebron, AD and Kuzma and will add either Kawhi or some decent pieces with what's left of their cap. They are definitely better than Spurs even without signing Kawhi.

The Warriors are still better than the Spurs. They will still have Curry and Draymond, and now D'Angelo Russel for whatever that is worth, and should be getting Thompson back around the all-star break. Those four along with flotsam and jetsam are better than anything the Spurs can throw out there. Portland seems to be shooting themselves in the dick this offseason. Who knows what the fuck they are doing but if Nurkic (who is reportedly way ahead in his recovery) makes it back they are still formidable. I would say they are at worse a push with the Spurs

So that's 5 teams: Houston, Utah, LAL, Denver and GS that are on paper better than the Spurs. Maybe Portland, too. If the Clippers get Kawhi, you can throw them in there as well.

You guys need to remember what this team looked like last year. They were pathetic on the road. They were awful on defense and couldn't get stops when they needed them. They played too much iso ball,  bogged down on offense way, way too much and didn't take enough threes to scare anybody. Everybody is optimistic about Murray and White, and Walker too even though we haven't gotten enough of a look at him, but they are all going to have to take major jumps forward for this team to improve on its win total. Hopefully, they have another deal in the works for another front court player. 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

45 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I wouldn't take Houston over us. Probably give y'all Denver. Maybe on Utah. 

We'll see. Not sure I see any 60 win teams - seems like a lot will be in the 55-56 range which I think we can get to.

Not saying I would be surprised if we're the 5 seed - but I don't think that is this teams ceiling.

I would love to hear your argument that justifies not taking Houston over us, with the way both teams are currently constructed. Because unless I’m just missing something, on the surface, that take seems pretty ridiculous. Are you just banking on Houston falling apart because they can’t get along? 

[ztejas 43495]

40 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

Carroll is 33 years old and has probably lost half a step but there's no question he fills the need for another wing and he's an upgrade at what they had there last year. Plus, the price is right and he will come off the books in two years at the same time as Aldridge, Derozen (if he opts in), Mills and Gay. It's an almost no risk deal for the Spurs and there's no question that he makes them better.

 

I hate the Rockets but for sure they are better than the Spurs. The Rockets mailed in the first half of the season and still won 53 games. Harden makes my eyeballs ache but he is a gotdamned witch. Denver is only getting better as their young players mature. Depending on what happens with the Lakers and Kawhi, Utah almost certainly had the best off season of any team that didn't win the Zion lottery or sign Kevin Durant. Adding Conley and Bogdanovic to that core elevates them to near the top of the west. Speaking of the Lakers, they have Lebron, AD and Kuzma and will add either Kawhi or some decent pieces with what's left of their cap. They are definitely better than Spurs even without signing Kawhi.

The Warriors are still better than the Spurs. They will still have Curry and Draymond, and now D'Angelo Russel for whatever that is worth, and should be getting Thompson back around the all-star break. Those four along with flotsam and jetsam are better than anything the Spurs can throw out there. Portland seems to be shooting themselves in the dick this offseason. Who knows what the fuck they are doing but if Nurkic (who is reportedly way ahead in his recovery) makes it back they are still formidable. I would say they are at worse a push with the Spurs

So that's 5 teams: Houston, Utah, LAL, Denver and GS that are on paper better than the Spurs. Maybe Portland, too. If the Clippers get Kawhi, you can throw them in there as well.

You guys need to remember what this team looked like last year. They were pathetic on the road. They were awful on defense and couldn't get stops when they needed them. They played too much iso ball,  bogged down on offense way, way too much and didn't take enough threes to scare anybody. Everybody is optimistic about Murray and White, and Walker too even though we haven't gotten enough of a look at him, but they are all going to have to take major jumps forward for this team to improve on its win total. Hopefully, they have another deal in the works for another front court player. 

I'm not high on the Warriors. I think they will have major issues defensively without Durant and Thompson. 55 wins would be a great season for them. And I mean great. 

I really don't know what to think of Houston. That team peaked 2 years ago in my opinion and since then every one of their key pieces has gotten 2 years older. I'm not sure if Harden keeps it up for another season. If he does, to be bullish on the Rockets you have to assume that Paul, Gordon and Tucker will all play 70ish plus games and not have any major decline. That seems like a shaky proposition to me. 

Dejounte has the potential to be really, really good and just rehabbed for an entire season and is probably why I am higher on this team than many of you. In the 2nd half of 2018 he went 10.0 / 7.0 / 3.5/ 1.7 steals and 1.8 TO on 47% field goal in just 26 minutes per game.

Of course I remember what this team looked like last year - yet we still won 48 games. Dejounte, White, Walker, Bertans and Poeltl should all improve (though I'd expect maybe 4 of them to improve and one to regress for whatever reason). DeRozan isn't getting any worse and was quietly very good last season. LaMarcus isn't getting any younger but his game hardly relies on athleticism or youth. Patty is trash but we know that going in. Rudy missed significant time last year, if we can get 70ish good games from him that would be a plus as well. 

Carroll isn't a world beater 8th man but he will be an improvement over some of the garbage we were running out there last season. 

And Popovich is still at the helm. I will still bet against other teams in the West before I bet against the Spurs to win 50+ games. People in this thread were chirping that we would finish at .500 or worse last season. We finished 14 games above. 

TLDR - I don't see us being worse than last year and almost expect us to be better. If that's the case, we should be solidly in the mix between the 4th-6th seeds with a punchers chance at 3rd. It really just depends on how the cards fall in the West, but I think there are very few teams if any guaranteed to finish in the top 5. 

[ztejas 43495]

39 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I would love to hear your argument that justifies not taking Houston over us, with the way both teams are currently constructed. Because unless I’m just missing something, on the surface, that take seems pretty ridiculous. Are you just banking on Houston falling apart because they can’t get along? 

No, I'm banking on this Chris Paul trend continuing:

2017-18	32	HOU	NBA	PG	58	58	31.8	6.3	13.8	.460	2.5	6.5	.380	3.8	7.2	.532	.550	3.5	3.8	.919	0.6	4.8	5.4	7.9	1.7	0.2	2.2	2.4	18.6
2018-19	33	HOU	NBA	PG	58	58	32.0	5.2	12.4	.419	2.2	6.1	.358	3.0	6.3	.479	.508	3.0	3.5	.862	0.6	3.9	4.6	8.2	2.0	0.3	2.6	2.5	15.6

[C-Man 27234]

2 hours ago, ztejas said:

I wouldn't take Houston over us. Probably give y'all Denver. Maybe on Utah. 

We'll see. Not sure I see any 60 win teams - seems like a lot will be in the 55-56 range which I think we can get to.

Not saying I would be surprised if we're the 5 seed - but I don't think that is this teams ceiling. 

Yeah, I don't see this Spurs team getting to 55-56 win territory.

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

1 hour ago, BurdineBandit said:

I will never underestimate what two plus (plus-plus) defenders at guard can do. The Rockets want to run back another season of Harden-ball with 35 year old CP3? Not scared. The Jazz want to run 32 year-old Mike Conley and Jamaal Murray at us? Not scared. I would be a lot more confident if the Splash Brothers were healthy and we had to play them too. Not scared. Two solid guards on defense with an improvement from DJM gets us extra wins this year.

I was counting on extra wins last year since LaMarcus had to carry us during Kawhi's holdout year, but that was also assuming our only defensive stopper was going to be on the team for at least one regular season game. He wasn't. Now we have a healthy rotation on the bench and hopefully LW to replace Marco. This organization's identity is centered around solid defensive play, and we haven't been able to get that for two years because for two years in a row our best defensive player has missed the year due to injury. Let's try it again.

Jamaal Murray is a guard for the Nuggets.  The Utah Jazz backcourt is Conley and Donovan Mitchell.  We have a healthy rotation but injuries will happen.  Getting DJM back will help but we still aren't a great defensive team nor do we have a consistent go to scorer.  We may be a team that is a little better than last year but don't see it in tangible results.  There were 6 teams who's advanced stats were all better than the Spurs and all except for maybe Houston and OKC who are about the same; only the Warriors have taken a step back  and then you have the Lakers who will be much better with help.  We also had zero money in a great free agent year to make even small changes to get better like signing a Bogs or looking at a Julius Randle type.  Next year, when we have tons of money coming off the books, the FA class is shallow.  I'm sure we'll do what we do, run efficient sets, be extremely well coached, have players work the system and embrace roles.  It will be a team with little drama and we'll beat up on the dregs of the league -- enough to put us in position to make the playoffs.  But make no mistake, we're not really much of a contender unless at least 2 of the young guys make enormous leaps.

 

Edited July 1, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[ztejas 43495]

29 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Yeah, I don't see this Spurs team getting to 55-56 win territory.

I think we can win 7 more games than we did last year. I don't think that's unfeasible. 

I'd expect us more in the 50-52 range but sometimes teams outdo expectations. We will definitely need a couple of surprise seasons to get there though. 

[ztejas 43495]

12 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

There were 6 teams who's advanced stats were all better than the Spurs and all except for maybe Houston and OKC who are about the same; only the Warriors have taken a step back  and then you have the Lakers who will be much better with help. 

Right, but do you expect us to be worse than last season? At the minimum our rotation should be deeper and younger. And the youngins will have more experience. 

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Right, but do you expect us to be worse than last season? At the minimum our rotation should be deeper and younger. And the youngins will have more experience. 

I think we're going to be about the same or a little better.  The only thing we've really added (considering how Pop treats rookies) is DJM coming off ACL surgery.  Combo guard is our strongest position.  I think we'll be solidly in the playoff hunt and dangerous in the first round if we get in but I don't think we've jumped up into the top 5 in the West at all.

 

[ztejas 43495]

6 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I think we're going to be about the same or a little better.  The only thing we've really added (considering how Pop treats rookies) is DJM coming off ACL surgery.  Combo guard is our strongest position.  I think we'll be solidly in the playoff hunt and dangerous in the first round if we get in but I don't think we've jumped up into the top 5 in the West at all.

 

I agree with all of that - I think my main point is that I question how much of a "jump" is really needed to crack the top 5 in the West this season - so I don't think I would set that as our ceiling just yet. 

Looking forward to it either way. If we can get hot and see some development going into the playoffs I like us as a darkhorse. 

Let's see where Kawhi signs. The Clippers might be pretty fucking salty too if he goes there. 

[Patrick Bateman 3918]

Congrats to the rooks.

Weatherspoon accepted a 2 way deal so he'll spend a ton of time in Austin.  Wouldn't be surprised if Johnson did too.  No idea on Samanic.

[C-Man 27234]

47 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I think we can win 7 more games than we did last year. I don't think that's unfeasible. 

I'd expect us more in the 50-52 range but sometimes teams outdo expectations. We will definitely need a couple of surprise seasons to get there though. 

The point is 55-56 wins usually gets you into the top three in overall conference standings. By your own admission, we're probably 5th at best based on how things stand right now.