2019 San Antonio Spurs Offseason Thread -- Rebuild or Run it Back?

[Mitch Cumsteen 18594]

And then there's this bullshit:

 

Nice to trade Davis Bertans and an overseas prospect so we could add $1.5 million to Demarre Carrol's contract. What a clusterfuck.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Mitch Cumsteen

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

So we absolutely wouldn’t have traded Bertans unless we bring in Morris, right? Or was that going to happen regardless? If not, how does something like this even happen?

Edited July 9, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[C-Man 27285]

1 hour ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

And then there's this bullshit:

 

Nice to trade Davis Bertans and an overseas prospect so we could add $1.5 million to Demarre Carrol's contract. What a clusterfuck.

He'd be an idiot to renege on the agreement with the Spurs at this point. That additional $5M isn't going to go very far considering:

• NY has state income tax
• Cost of living in NYC is >>>>>>>>>>>>> SA

Plus, he'd be joining a garbage team that is going to lose a ton of games.

[Kermit 3159]

14 minutes ago, C-Man said:

He'd be an idiot to renege on the agreement with the Spurs at this point. That additional $5M isn't going to go very far considering:

• NY has state income tax
• Cost of living in NYC is >>>>>>>>>>>>> SA

Plus, he'd be joining a garbage team that is going to lose a ton of games.

Fucking Klutch.

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

 

He'd be an idiot to renege on the agreement with the Spurs at this point. That additional $5M isn't going to go very far considering:

• NY has state income tax
• Cost of living in NYC is >>>>>>>>>>>>> SA

Plus, he'd be joining a garbage team that is going to lose a ton of games.

Uhm....

Being a millionaire in NYC + 5 million more dollars >>>> Being a millionaire San Antonio.

This is really just about being a man.   Are you a man of your word or are you a man who's principles and honor is conditional or convenient.  Marcus Morris will define himself and what kind of person he is.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

Why had that deal not been done?  Wasn't it announced like 3 days ago?

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

13 minutes ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Why had that deal not been done?  Wasn't it announced like 3 days ago?

It takes a little while for things to get done and deals to get inked and approved.  His signing was the last in a series of moves and they probably were awaiting the dominos to fall.  That said, it would behoove PATFO to be way more buttoned up things like this.  We’ve made a number of front office gaffes throughout the years from Dick Jefferson to paying Pau before Paul was delivered and now this.  They all are a bit different but still not great management.  Frankly, RC is sort of sloppy when it comes to free agency work.

[LTtxfan 49378]

Marcus Morris agent will be shit in Spurs-land if this deal falls through.

Bertans traded and Carroll extended a 3rd year just to make financial room for Morris contract.... smh😠

[Cajun 11753]

8 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Being a millionaire in NYC + 5 million more dollars >>>> Being a millionaire San Antonio.

 

I'd say that's highly debatable.  I don't care about tax rates and all that bullshit, because all the other costs are so vastly different.  A few million in SA gets you a gigantic estate, a ranch up in the Hill Country, a Country Club membership, maids, butler, yard-men, the list goes on.  You're a big fuckin deal there.

Same $ figure in NYC gets you a nice condo in a decent part of Manhattan.  You ain't no big deal, you're just another Manhattan millionaire trying to scrape up the ladder.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Cajun

[Hate 20146]

I’m not sure I even want him now. If he is having difficulty deciding to play for a contender or a dumpster fire, that may tell you all you need to know. I get that we aren’t  really a “contender” right now, but we have a better shot than the Knicks. 

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

45 minutes ago, Hate said:

I’m not sure I even want him now. If he is having difficulty deciding to play for a contender or a dumpster fire, that may tell you all you need to know. I get that we aren’t  really a “contender” right now, but we have a better shot than the Knicks. 

This. What Pop said, we want guys who've gotten over themselves.  If he reneges then we dont want em.  

[Machinator 32099]

Marcus "Bru McCoy" Morris

[Mitch Cumsteen 18594]

8 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Marcus Morris agent will be shit in Spurs-land if this deal falls through.

Bertans traded and Carroll extended a 3rd year just to make financial room for Morris contract.... smh😠

His agent = Rich Paul clutch sports. Aka dejounte murrays agent. Lol. 

[ztejas 43547]

5 hours ago, Cajun said:

I'd say that's highly debatable.  I don't care about tax rates and all that bullshit, because all the other costs are so vastly different.  A few million in SA gets you a gigantic estate, a ranch up in the Hill Country, a Country Club membership, maids, butler, yard-men, the list goes on.  You're a big fuckin deal there.

Same $ figure in NYC gets you a nice condo in a decent part of Manhattan.  You ain't no big deal, you're just another Manhattan millionaire trying to scrape up the ladder.

Plus I hear they can't even make a decent chorizo taco in Manhattan. 

[EvilCaseMcCoy 691]

5 hours ago, Cajun said:

I'd say that's highly debatable.  I don't care about tax rates and all that bullshit, because all the other costs are so vastly different.  A few million in SA gets you a gigantic estate, a ranch up in the Hill Country, a Country Club membership, maids, butler, yard-men, the list goes on.  You're a big fuckin deal there.

Same $ figure in NYC gets you a nice condo in a decent part of Manhattan.  You ain't no big deal, you're just another Manhattan millionaire trying to scrape up the ladder.

Not sure it matters all that much on a 1 year deal.  Not like he's completely uprooting and buying a house in either location.  

Hell,  David Lee lived in the penthouse at Hotel Emma while he played here and has a mansion in LA despite never playing for an LA team. 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

15 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Uhm....

Specifically to Finger's post, WRONG. First of all, it's fucking retarded to say the max income tax rate is "only" 8%. That's almost a dime out of every dollar you earn! For someone in Morris' tax bracket, his federal write off is capped at $10,000. If you WANT Morris in New York, and you're not Morris, sure, that tax differential can be scoffed at. If you're Morris or his financial advisor, it IS significant-- "some" is a lot more than "absolutely nothing".

Second, you pay an effective sales tax in Texas of 8.25% on products (6.25 percent plus municipal taxes), and the same on taxable service (not all services are taxed). In New York city, you pay 8.875% on products, and 4.5% on services. So no, sales tax is not "higher" in Texas, and it's unlikely you'd buy enough taxable services to make it so. 

Lastly, on property tax, the odds are pretty good Morris will be renting anyway, but even if he's not, your property taxes are 1.9% here, so it seems a little disingenuous to say "THE INCOME TAX IS ONLY 8% IN NEW YORK BUT ZOMG PROPERTY TAXES ARE SO HIGH IN TEXAS!!!!". Either a few percentage points are a lot, or they're not. But, it is disingenuous especially because THERE ARE PROPERTY TAXES IN NEW YORK. If Morris buys property in EITHER STATE, he is going to incur a tax liability. So he won't. He'll just rent. Without even looking, I am betting there are taxes and fees on renters in NYC that wouldn't apply in San Antonio. 

Net, Morris pays a significant amount more in taxes in New York than Texas and he does so during the very limited period of his life where he can make several million dollars a year playing basketball. The cost of living calculation(s) aren't insignificant either. 

I am not saying he should pick San Antonio, and I am not saying he would net more in San Antonio than New York (he apparently would earn a lot more in NY and would thus net more). I am saying Mike Finger knows as much about finance as you would expect a sportswriter to know.

Edited July 10, 2019 by SwanderedTalent

[SilasCoade 2622]

Don't athletes pay taxes where the money is earned such that getting paid for games in NY => NY tax rates but games played in TX => TX tax rates? Sure you play more games in NY for the Knicks but it's not an all or nothing proposition.

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

43 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Don't athletes pay taxes where the money is earned such that getting paid for games in NY => NY tax rates but games played in TX => TX tax rates? Sure you play more games in NY for the Knicks but it's not an all or nothing proposition.

Correct and then where you reside affects other taxes.  Many folks "live" in Jersey, Pennsylvania, or Connecticut if they're really concerned about residency but still have a flat in NYC.  

 

2 hours ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

His agent = Rich Paul clutch sports. Aka dejounte murrays agent. Lol. 

This is the real story.  PATFO and Clutch don't get along and it's going to impact us for the next decade.

 

8 hours ago, Cajun said:

I'd say that's highly debatable.  I don't care about tax rates and all that bullshit, because all the other costs are so vastly different.  A few million in SA gets you a gigantic estate, a ranch up in the Hill Country, a Country Club membership, maids, butler, yard-men, the list goes on.  You're a big fuckin deal there.

Same $ figure in NYC gets you a nice condo in a decent part of Manhattan.  You ain't no big deal, you're just another Manhattan millionaire trying to scrape up the ladder.

Sure, that may be interesting to a kid born in Texas or any other small town in America.  Morris is from Philly, having a huge estate with nothing to do at 29 probably isn't that interesting to him at this stage in his life. 

[ztejas 43547]

54 minutes ago, Llogg said:

Don't athletes pay taxes where the money is earned such that getting paid for games in NY => NY tax rates but games played in TX => TX tax rates? Sure you play more games in NY for the Knicks but it's not an all or nothing proposition.

You're right - but it is still more than half either way. In Texas you aren't paying taxes on close to 50 games played. In New York you are paying taxes on probably 70 games with the rates dependent on which state the games are played in. 

I believe the only games that you don't pay state income tax on are in Memphis, Orlando, Miami, Houston, Dallas and San Antonio. 

[PilotsError 2325]

I mean, young guys with money would probably rather live in NY than SA.  That's not exactly controversial.

He may more friends on the Knicks, or think he can start and score more points. I don't know.  Not everyone is enamored with PATFO.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

I heard something about how the knicks can pay him more this year, and he will get a chance to re-enter free agency again next year. Any truth to that, or did I hear that wrong? Either way, what a cluster fuck

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

19 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

I heard something about how the knicks can pay him more this year, and he will get a chance to re-enter free agency again next year. Any truth to that, or did I hear that wrong? Either way, what a cluster fuck

Both deals would be essentially 1 year as our offer had a Player Option the 2nd year.  The Knicks reported (above) is for more than 5 million more for that 1 year.

EDIT:  Realized the NY offer hadn't been linked.

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by Patrick Bateman

[ztejas 43547]

I'm trying to think if anyone else is on the market if he doesn't sign. I know GS just waived Livingston but he would just further crowd our backcourt. 

[ztejas 43547]

I'll answer my own question, some interesting names:

Vince Carter

Ryan Anderson

Kenneth Fareid

Andrew Bogut

Pau Gasol (who I don't want again)

Greg Monroe

Lance Stephenson (don't want)

Tyson Chandler (old as shit)

Amir Johnson

Tyler Zeller

Jonas Jerebko

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by ztejas

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I'll answer my own question, some interesting names:

Vince Carter

Ryan Anderson

Kenneth Fareid

Andrew Bogut

Pau Gasol (who I don't want again)

Greg Monroe

Lance Stephenson (don't want)

Tyson Chandler (old as shit)

Amir Johnson

Tyler Zeller

Jonas Jerebko

 

None of those guys are worth the MLE.  Best bet is to probably sign someone like Thomas Robinson to a minimum contract and keep your powder dry for a buy out possibility.

 

[Kermit 3159]

I don’t blame Marcus. Getting paid more to do the same job is something we all aspire to. I don’t blame his representation, as it would be negligence on their part not to make the most for their client. The Knicks, however, can burn in the seventh layer of Hell. 

[PilotsError 2325]

We don't HAVE to sign someone right now.  Keep flexible and see who becomes available during the season.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

44 minutes ago, Kermit said:

I don’t blame Marcus. Getting paid more to do the same job is something we all aspire to. I don’t blame his representation, as it would be negligence on their part not to make the most for their client. The Knicks, however, can burn in the seventh layer of Hell. 

That was kind of the point I was getting at when I made my post earlier. Other than giving us his word, it makes perfect sense that he would do this. I’m sure he would take a little less to be on a contender, but I’m sure he doesn’t view us as a contender. It just sucks that we made corresponding moves, assuming he would be here. 

 

And a hard fuck no to everyone on ztejas’s list. 

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

 

[ztejas 43547]

57 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

That was kind of the point I was getting at when I made my post earlier. Other than giving us his word, it makes perfect sense that he would do this. I’m sure he would take a little less to be on a contender, but I’m sure he doesn’t view us as a contender. It just sucks that we made corresponding moves, assuming he would be here. 

 

And a hard fuck no to everyone on ztejas’s list. 

I mean... I wouldn't call it "my" list. It's just a list of notable UFAs. I think a couple of those names might be interesting pick ups but most of them would add very little. 

I don't think we need to sign anyone right now either. 

[Mitch Cumsteen 18594]

1 hour ago, Kermit said:

I don’t blame Marcus. Getting paid more to do the same job is something we all aspire to. I don’t blame his representation, as it would be negligence on their part not to make the most for their client. The Knicks, however, can burn in the seventh layer of Hell. 

The Knicks have already signed free agent PFs Taj Gibson, Julius Randle, and Bobby Portis this offseason. And they also have Kevin Knox at PF who was the 9th pick in the draft last year along with another young second year C in Mitchell Robinson. That frontcourt couldn't be more crowded. Adding Marcus Morris for $15 million makes about as much sense basketball-wise as everything else that franchise has done over the past decade plus.

[ztejas 43547]

19 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

 

Neat. Will this help him make wide open 3 pointers next season? 

[Kermit 3159]

58 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

The Knicks have already signed free agent PFs Taj Gibson, Julius Randle, and Bobby Portis this offseason. And they also have Kevin Knox at PF who was the 9th pick in the draft last year along with another young second year C in Mitchell Robinson. That frontcourt couldn't be more crowded. Adding Marcus Morris for $15 million makes about as much sense basketball-wise as everything else that franchise has done over the past decade plus.

Absolutely. They fully intend to trade him come December for draft picks. It’s bush league 

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

1 hour ago, Kermit said:

Absolutely. They fully intend to trade him come December for draft picks. It’s bush league 

Yep.... or a couple of the others.  But the expiring, 1 year deal seems like he'll be on a short-term deal and then shuffled off to a contender for a couple of 2nd round picks.

 

[Cajun 11753]

10 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Correct and then where you reside affects other taxes.  Many folks "live" in Jersey, Pennsylvania, or Connecticut if they're really concerned about residency but still have a flat in NYC.  

 

This is the real story.  PATFO and Clutch don't get along and it's going to impact us for the next decade.

 

Sure, that may be interesting to a kid born in Texas or any other small town in America.  Morris is from Philly, having a huge estate with nothing to do at 29 probably isn't that interesting to him at this stage in his life. 

You grossly oversimplify here, but I understand why--you need to in order to preserve the point.  

The reality is that plenty of young Spurs from all over the globe over decades have done just fine in SA and have plenty to do.  Hell, they aren't even in town half the year, if that.

Millions in SA gives you a LOT to do mi amigo negro.

 

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

1 hour ago, Cajun said:

You grossly oversimplify here, but I understand why--you need to in order to preserve the point.  

The reality is that plenty of young Spurs from all over the globe over decades have done just fine in SA and have plenty to do.  Hell, they aren't even in town half the year, if that.

Millions in SA gives you a LOT to do mi amigo negro.

 

Do I?  Yes, it's my opinion that the typical NBA player under 30, specifically those who were raised in inner cities or metropolitan areas would prefer to live in NYC over San Antonio, especially if they were to make way more money.  Not all, but the majority.  If you feel differently, you are more than welcome to your opinion, and we will simply agree to disagree.  This isn't brain surgery.

Moving on... 

Spoon is looking like he can develop into a nice NBA backup guard.  He'll spend some time here in ATX so try to get a look at him in person but I've been impressed.  Apparently Luka is a project but pretty talented.  Gonna take some time.  Johnson is too up and down right now.  Looks timid one night and aggressive the next.  Sort of his rep coming out, he wasn't aggressive enough all the time.

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Patrick Bateman
Contractions are fun

[SilasCoade 2622]

Samanic is a very high beta player at this point. Lots of really poor plays sprinkled in with some nice basketball skill.

[LTtxfan 49378]

56 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Moving on... Spoon is looking like he can develop into a nice NBA backup guard.  He'll spend some time here in ATX so try to get a look at him in person but I've been impressed.  Apparently Luka is a project but pretty talented.  Gonna take some time.  Johnson is too up and down right now.  Looks timid one night and aggressive the next.  Sort of his rep coming out, he was aggressive enough all the time.

Spoon is closest to providing a little depth if (worst case) an injury occurs next spring.  Luka and Nelson are GREEN... lots of ATX time this season.  Not sure either one will see much of any playing time in SA until late in Year 2.

[Cajun 11753]

Quote

  This isn't brain surgery.

No, it's rocket surgery.

Good GAWD, like playing cards with my sister's kids.

[LTtxfan 49378]

7 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Spoon is closest to providing a little depth if (worst case) an injury occurs next spring.  Luka and Keldon are GREEN... lots of ATX time this season.  Not sure either one will see much of any playing time in SA until late in Year 2.

Correction... Keldon

(Damn autocorrect)

[ztejas 43547]

11 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Do I?  Yes, it's my opinion that the typical NBA player under 30, specifically those who were raised in inner cities or metropolitan areas would prefer to live in NYC over San Antonio, especially if they were to make way more money.  Not all, but the majority.  If you feel differently, you are more than welcome to your opinion, and we will simply agree to disagree.  This isn't brain surgery.

Moving on... 

Spoon is looking like he can develop into a nice NBA backup guard.  He'll spend some time here in ATX so try to get a look at him in person but I've been impressed.  Apparently Luka is a project but pretty talented.  Gonna take some time.  Johnson is too up and down right now.  Looks timid one night and aggressive the next.  Sort of his rep coming out, he wasn't aggressive enough all the time.

 

Yeah I'm not calling him Spoon. 

[Kermit 3159]

His momma named him Quindarry, imma call him Quindarry.

[Patrick Bateman 3933]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Yeah I'm not calling him Spoon. 

Looks like Morris will be going to NYC.

 

[Radical Larry 28664]

Where he’ll later be bought out or traded to his Klutch buddy in Los Angeles.

[ztejas 43547]

40 minutes ago, Kermit said:

His momma named him Quindarry, imma call him Quindarry.

He prefers Quindar Erspoon, Esq. 

[ztejas 43547]

11 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Looks like Morris will be going to NYC.

 

I hope his favorite pizza place is closed every night and he has to eat Sbarro after striking out at the club. 

[Eastwood 4394]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

I hope his favorite pizza place is closed every night and he has to eat Sbarro after striking out at the club. 

In San Antonio, we call that "pulling a DeJuan Blair."

[Hate 20146]

I hope he blows out his knee in training camp. Fuck him.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

40 minutes ago, Hate said:

I hope he blows out his knee in training camp. Fuck him.

Lol god damn, your user name checks out in this thread so often 

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Double post. Now mine is checking out 

Edited July 11, 2019 by youdunnf'dup