Laptop for son.

[midtown 3350]

My son wants a laptop to game and also to use for school. He's 12 and it's going to be a confirmation gift from his mom and I. How much fire power does he need for gaming? Any suggestions on brands? I'm thinking about $600 - 700

 

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[Dahobbs 18192]

13 minutes ago, midtown said:

 

My son wants a laptop to game and also to use for school. He's 12 and it's going to be a confirmation gift from his mom and I. How much fire power does he need for gaming? Any suggestions on brands? I'm thinking about $600 - 700

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

How serious is he about gaming? $600 to $700 will be fine for school stuff,  browsing, and light gaming. That however will never get you a true gaming laptop. I need a better idea on the expectations for gaming and maybe even some example games to give you a recommendation. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Dahobbs

[TwiceHorn 31987]

15 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

How serious is he about gaming? $600 to $700 will be fine for school stuff,  browsing, and light gaming. That however will never get you a true gaming laptop. I need a better idea on the expectations for gaming and maybe even some example games to give you a recommendation. 

He's right.  True gaming laptops with the graphics capability approaching that of desktops are $1500-2000 machines.  Hell, maybe more, I don't keep up, but suffice it to say the upper end of the laptop spectrum.  This assumes we're talking PC versions of console-type games (Playstation/Xbox), or even playing online games like WoW etc.  The reason being, you're taking a several hundred dollar graphics card (the heart of those machines), that throws off a lot of heat, and making it small and stuffing it in a small box with little heat removal capacity

[Nueces River Rat 5742]

My son wants a laptop to game and also to use for school. He's 12 and it's going to be a confirmation gift from his mom and I. How much fire power does he need for gaming? Any suggestions on brands? I'm thinking about $600 - 700
 
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I’d look for reconditioned MacBook directly from Apple or Gazelle. They come with a one year warranty. That’s what I got my kids for their first laptops and they lasted pretty much through high school.

[Nivek 17330]

Razor Blade Stealth is a good little machine but above that price point. I imagine it will last a while.

[Dahobbs 18192]

10 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I’d look for reconditioned MacBook directly from Apple or Gazelle. They come with a one year warranty. That’s what I got my kids for their first laptops and they lasted pretty much through high school.

He said gaming first. That immediately disqualifies a mac. 

[Nueces River Rat 5742]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

He said gaming first. That immediately disqualifies a mac. 

10-4.  

But the Mac checks the boxes for a long term investment vs a Windows driven product.   I have a Mac for personal and home use and Lenovo for business and the later wants me to slit my wrist or go listen to some one running their finger nails over a chalk board in closed room all day.  

[crash_davis 23465]

the recent macs have been plagued with problems: shitty keyboard which will fail, and fail again, and a screen which will die because of shitty design which will break the cable. 

computers are not investments.  investments grow money over time, not lose value.

[Nueces River Rat 5742]

6 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

the recent macs have been plagued with problems: shitty keyboard which will fail, and fail again, and a screen which will die because of shitty design which will break the cable. 

computers are not investments.  investments grow money over time, not lose value.

Using the term loosely.  But a few years ago when I got my first Mac,  I was having issues left and right with several Windows PC's at home and work.   The time (money) having Techs to look at issues, replacing parts or machines in total made my Mac a solid investment.  

Edited April 30, 2019 by Nueces River Rat

[Dahobbs 18192]

16 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

10-4.  

But the Mac checks the boxes for a long term investment vs a Windows driven product.   I have a Mac for personal and home use and Lenovo for business and the later wants me to slit my wrist or go listen to some one running their finger nails over a chalk board in closed room all day.  

Yeah, I get it. A Macbook Pro with dual boot windows using Boot camp could probably game ok. But Macs just aren't geared toward gamers. The graphics hardware tends to be more of the professional side, which doesn't usually have great driver support for games. And the OS itself doesn't support the tools that developers want/need to get their games working (e.g., APIs like DirectX). Point being, anyone who wants a gaming machine isn't going to be a Mac customer in the first place and isn't going to have your issues with using Windows. 

[Nueces River Rat 5742]

9 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Yeah, I get it. A Macbook Pro with dual boot windows using Boot camp could probably game ok. But Macs just aren't geared toward gamers. The graphics hardware tends to be more of the professional side, which doesn't usually have great driver support for games. And the OS itself doesn't support the tools that developers want/need to get their games working (e.g., APIs like DirectX). Point being, anyone who wants a gaming machine isn't going to be a Mac customer in the first place and isn't going to have your issues with using Windows. 

Got it.   I used to keep up with all the trends and stuff with computing, but once I had kids, a business and other stuff I kind of lost track of all the trends in computer world.  I thought with X-box, Playstation and all that jazz, the PC for gaming would become secondary and it did for awhile. But it appears the PC got a second wind and it's really rebounded as a platform for the serious gamer. 

[Cheeseweasel 26439]

13 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

I’d look for reconditioned MacBook directly from Apple or Gazelle. They come with a one year warranty. That’s what I got my kids for their first laptops and they lasted pretty much through high school.

 

If it is for gaming, you're gonna have a  hard time. If it's for facebook & apps, get an IPad.

[ztejas 44114]

https://www.sagernotebook.com/Best-Gaming-Laptops/?af=G1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxueiwpH44QIVUb7ACh0rOw9qEAAYASAAEgKWt_D_BwE

Don't look back. Spend whatever you think is reasonable. 

They are made by ze Germans. Mine is still kicking just fine after 3-4 years of heavy use (all the way through college) although it's shelved now that I have a new desktop.  

[gyroprotagonist 2597]

what type of gaming?  Are we talking about apps like on a phone gaming? or like PC games that need decent hardware to pull off?

My son is 11 and he's had a little $150 chromebook for 2 or so years now.  it was enough to do internet research and write papers and of course play google playstore apps.

[midtown 3350]

I'll aks him what kind of gaming he wants to do when I get back from vacation

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[Dendox 102]

2 hours ago, midtown said:

I'll aks him what kind of gaming he wants to do when I get back from vacation

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk
 

fortnite

[crash_davis 23465]

2 hours ago, midtown said:

I'll aks him what kind of gaming he wants to do when I get back from vacation

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circle jerk.

[I Plead Da Fif 361]

8 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

He said gaming first. That immediately disqualifies a mac. 

I know that this is usually a thing, but games run pretty smoothly on my MacBook Pro 2018 with a Radeon Pro 560X with 4GB of RAM. I realize that's a pretty pricey option, but it doubles as a workstation and a gaming laptop right now.

[Dahobbs 18192]

2 minutes ago, I Plead Da Fif said:

I know that this is usually a thing, but games run pretty smoothly on my MacBook Pro 2018 with a Radeon Pro 560X with 4GB of RAM. I realize that's a pretty pricey option, but it doubles as a workstation and a gaming laptop right now.

Yup. As I said above, that is really the only possible option. And it is just as (if not more) expensive than some of the best true gaming laptops, but with a fraction of the gaming chops. 

[ztejas 44114]

8 minutes ago, I Plead Da Fif said:

I realize that's a pretty pricey option, but it doubles as a workstation and a gaming laptop right now.

So will any decent gaming laptop with windows. 

 

[I Plead Da Fif 361]

15 minutes ago, ztejas said:

So will any decent gaming laptop with windows. 

 

Why would anyone choose to develop on Windows? I don't understand this. I've always found a unix based system as a barrier of entry for software development ever since I was removing Windows from my laptop and installing Ubuntu at 20. I work for a .NET SAAS company now and they pay for Parallels or VMWare to build the app for our dev team.

[ztejas 44114]

4 minutes ago, I Plead Da Fif said:

Why would anyone choose to develop on Windows? I don't understand this. I've always found a unix based system as a barrier of entry for software development ever since I was removing Windows from my laptop and installing Ubuntu at 20. I work for a .NET SAAS company now and they pay for Parallels or VMWare to build the app for our dev team.

His kid is 12. I'm trying to answer OP's question. If his 12 year old son needs a developing workstation then he can install linux on his new gaming PC. "workstation" is ambiguous - that doesn't necessarily mean developing. Regardless, this is getting off topic. 

[Dahobbs 18192]

11 minutes ago, I Plead Da Fif said:

Why would anyone choose to develop on Windows? I don't understand this. I've always found a unix based system as a barrier of entry for software development ever since I was removing Windows from my laptop and installing Ubuntu at 20. I work for a .NET SAAS company now and they pay for Parallels or VMWare to build the app for our dev team.

If you're developing games, Windows is the option right now for the PC market. MacOS doesn't support the nifty APIs that developers rely upon. Technically Apple has Metal, but it hasn't seen widespread adoption. (1) it is a pain to work with. (2) the user base is still much smaller than Windows, which already has difficulties getting developers to do proper ports from consoles. (3) Apple doesn't provide a good way to get the best in graphics cards into their machines. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by Dahobbs

[Nivek 17330]

Using the term loosely.  But a few years ago when I got my first Mac,  I was having issues left and right with several Windows PC's at home and work.   The time (money) having Techs to look at issues, replacing parts or machines in total made my Mac a solid investment.  

I am not as savvy as others on here. I have had several Dells from 2005-2015 and most were good machines, heavy, and solidly built. I went cheap on a Toshiba and though it had the hardware I wanted, the build quality was poor and it was uncomfortable to use (corners would dig into forearms). In seeking a replacement, I opted for the Razor Blade Stealth (13 in - yeah it is a little goofy) but the build quality is solid and it had all of the hardware I wanted. There is no flex in the computer casing when picking it up. Last I checked there were only 3 companies making single piece casings, Apple, Huwei, and Razor. The Huwei is a apple copy but for Windows and loaded with Chinese spyware and I believe their c-level executive was being arrested for espionage by Canadians when I was considering my purchase.

[TwiceHorn 31987]

It is my understanding that despite a fairly rocky start with "ultrabooks," there are a number of manufacturers/models out there in Windoze boxes that rival Macbooks for build quality and are at least somewhat cheaper for comparable or better hardware.

That said, a "thin and light" or "ultrabook" type laptop is not going to fill the bill for any kind of heavy duty gaming.

[Nivek 17330]

It is my understanding that despite a fairly rocky start with "ultrabooks," there are a number of manufacturers/models out there in Windoze boxes that rival Macbooks for build quality and are at least somewhat cheaper for comparable or better hardware.
That said, a "thin and light" or "ultrabook" type laptop is not going to fill the bill for any kind of heavy duty gaming.

True. Their 15 inch sucker is a little more in line with gaming. Also this company manufacturers an external video card that uses a usb-c port for additional hp for gaming.

[midtown 3350]

Children children... He isn't playing in the egames world championship. Fuck apple. What kind of computer should I get for $600

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[Nivek 17330]

Children children... He isn't playing in the egames world championship. Fuck apple. What kind of computer should I get for $600

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Then get him and Apple II plus, and tell him to not be such a pussy and carry it.

[Dahobbs 18192]

4 hours ago, midtown said:

Children children... He isn't playing in the egames world championship. Fuck apple. What kind of computer should I get for $600

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For gaming? A desktop. You're wasting money otherwise at that price. For school work and browsing? I could probably recommend you a slightly bulky machine that would perform fine and be of ok build quality. But, from a performance perspective you could also just buy a 300 dollar chromebook and get the same thing in a slightly cheaper case. 600 dollars really is no man's land for laptops. 

Move to 1000 and some good gaming laptops become available. Move to 800 and some decent starter ultrabooks become available. 600 is craptop range. Too expensive for chromebooks, but too cheap for something actually good. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Dahobbs

[ztejas 44114]

2 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

For gaming? A desktop. You're wasting money otherwise at that price. For school work and browsing? I could probably recommend you some almost ultrabooks that would work well and be of decent build quality. But, from a performance perspective you could also just buy a 300 dollar chromebook and get the same thing in a slightly cheaper case. 600 dollars really is no man's land for laptops. 

This is basically it. I know I linked to Sager in this thread but their cheapest model is $750 and the included graphics card has just 2 GB of RAM. 

To be able to run most AAA titles you're going to need at least 4 GB - and to get a decent framerate on anything past minimum graphics settings you're looking at more like 6-8 GB without even accounting for the CPU or RAM. 

[crash_davis 23465]

12 hours ago, midtown said:

Children children... He isn't playing in the egames world championship. Fuck apple. What kind of computer should I get for $600

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https://slickdeals.net/laptop-deals/ always look at slickdeals before buying computers and laptops

 

 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/dell-inspiron-2-in-1-13-3-touch-screen-laptop-amd-ryzen-5-8gb-memory-256gb-solid-state-drive-era-gray/6208228.p?ref=8575135&loc=5439a9586c1411e9bf55c258c79c70910INT&acampID=5439a9586c1411e9bf55c258c79c70910INT&skuId=6208228 13" touchscreen

https://slickdeals.net/f/13047847-lenovo-ideapad-s340-15-6-fhd-ips-i5-8265u-8gb-ddr4-256gb-pcie-ssd-type-c-win10h-520-f-s?src=catpagev2 

https://slickdeals.net/f/13044475-dell-inspiron-15-5000-laptop-ryzen-5-2500u-15-6-1080p-touchscreen-16gb-ddr4-1tb-hdd-vega-8-type-c-win-10-499-shipping-walmart?src=catpagev2 hdd, buy a 500gb ssd for $60

https://slickdeals.net/f/13038385-asus-vivobook-s-intel-core-i5-8250u-processor-8gb-ddr4-ram-256-gb-ssd-nvidia-geforce-mx150-15-6-fhd-wideview-display-asus-nanoedge-bezel-metal-cover-fingerprint-599?src=catpagev2  decent gps may be able to play "some" games

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3873]

On 4/29/2019 at 11:29 PM, Nivek said:

Razor Blade Stealth is a good little machine but above that price point. I imagine it will last a while.

Don't.  Razor's customer service is the opposite of Apple's.  I'm a week into trying to get an under warranty Razor sent off for repair.  Apple would have had it repaired and back to us by now.

[Dahobbs 18192]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

https://slickdeals.net/laptop-deals/ always look at slickdeals before buying computers and laptops

 

 

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/dell-inspiron-2-in-1-13-3-touch-screen-laptop-amd-ryzen-5-8gb-memory-256gb-solid-state-drive-era-gray/6208228.p?ref=8575135&loc=5439a9586c1411e9bf55c258c79c70910INT&acampID=5439a9586c1411e9bf55c258c79c70910INT&skuId=6208228 13" touchscreen

https://slickdeals.net/f/13047847-lenovo-ideapad-s340-15-6-fhd-ips-i5-8265u-8gb-ddr4-256gb-pcie-ssd-type-c-win10h-520-f-s?src=catpagev2 

https://slickdeals.net/f/13044475-dell-inspiron-15-5000-laptop-ryzen-5-2500u-15-6-1080p-touchscreen-16gb-ddr4-1tb-hdd-vega-8-type-c-win-10-499-shipping-walmart?src=catpagev2 hdd, buy a 500gb ssd for $60

https://slickdeals.net/f/13038385-asus-vivobook-s-intel-core-i5-8250u-processor-8gb-ddr4-ram-256-gb-ssd-nvidia-geforce-mx150-15-6-fhd-wideview-display-asus-nanoedge-bezel-metal-cover-fingerprint-599?src=catpagev2  decent gps may be able to play "some" games

Of those, the first, 3rd and 4th are the only ones that can game at all. The 4th will have the best gaming chops, but the reviews are pretty rough. The first and 3rd will have close to the same performance for games. The third has double the memory, but it comes in a worse case and with a slow mechanical hard-drive. Oh, and it weights nearly 5 lbs. But all the rest weigh close to 4 lbs, so none of them are exactly mobile. 

As I said, craptops. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Dahobbs

[TwiceHorn 31987]

14 hours ago, midtown said:

Children children... He isn't playing in the egames world championship. Fuck apple. What kind of computer should I get for $600

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk
 

I think you are kind of mistaken.  He doesn't have to be some kind of champion gamer, but if he wants to play graphics intensive games, even something like Diablo or World of Warcraft, most $600 laptops are not going to do that well, even acceptably.

Now if games means angry birds and candy crush or whatever, that's a different story.

[crash_davis 23465]

3 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Of those, the first, 3rd and 4th are the only ones that can game at all. The 4th will have the best gaming chops, but the reviews are pretty rough. The first and 3rd will have close to the same performance for games. The third has double the memory, but it comes in a worse case and with a slow mechanical hard-drive. Oh, and it weights nearly 5 lbs. But all the rest weigh close to 4 lbs, so none of them are exactly mobile. 

As I said, craptops. 

uhhh, they are all under $600.  we're not talking about $1200 machines.  $600 means there's going to be compromises.  

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3873]

14 hours ago, midtown said:

Children children... He isn't playing in the egames world championship. Fuck apple. What kind of computer should I get for $600

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk
 

Hate to tell  you a $600 laptop can't handle today's gaming graphics demands.

Edited May 1, 2019 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[Dahobbs 18192]

25 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

uhhh, they are all under $600.  we're not talking about $1200 machines.  $600 means there's going to be compromises.  

I know, that was my point. What his son is asking for isn't really compatible with a $600 price point. I wasnt criticizing your selections, they are good ones for the price range.

[52-80 19379]

the youtube channel dave2d has pretty extensive coverage of the gaming-laptop genre, and there are videos about budget laptops or recommendation at different price points

 

for everyone else who doesnt play games, just get a refurb apple

[midtown 3350]

Thanks for all the suggestions.  Continue squabbling

Edited May 1, 2019 by midtown

[Dahobbs 18192]

1 hour ago, Dahobbs said:

Of those, the first, 3rd and 4th are the only ones that can game at all. The 4th will have the best gaming chops, but the reviews are pretty rough. The first and 3rd will have close to the same performance for games. The third has double the memory, but it comes in a worse case and with a slow mechanical hard-drive. Oh, and it weights nearly 5 lbs. But all the rest weigh close to 4 lbs, so none of them are exactly mobile. 

As I said, craptops. 

To add, I personally would choose from 1 or 4 if you're keeping with this price point. I still highly recommend bumping it to 1000. Much better machines are available.

[shnsajax 3605]

He says gaming, but the transition to porn will be soon and you really don't need all that fire power for that. 

[crash_davis 23465]

1 hour ago, shnsajax said:

He says gaming, but the transition to porn will be soon and you really don't need all that fire power for that. 

why not both?

[RDCanecutter 26853]

1 hour ago, shnsajax said:

He says gaming, but the transition to porn will be soon and you really don't need all that fire power for that. 

It took a million posts, but here's the truth.

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3873]

1 hour ago, shnsajax said:

He says gaming, but the transition to porn will be soon and you really don't need all that fire power for that. 

He'll be watching 4-8K resolution in VR.

[shnsajax 3605]

Just now, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

He'll be watching 4-8K resolution in VR.

That thought did actually occur to me as well. 

[crash_davis 23465]

this is it.

https://express.google.com/u/0/product/Acer-Nitro-5-AN515-42-R5ED-15-6-Notebook-Ryzen-5-2500U-2-GHz-8-GB-RAM-1-TB-HDD-Black/3475155456199051940_3831646339569844341_125181302?ved=0CBQQ0FUoB2oYChMI25Tygo_74QIViQkKAx2YlAMPELwE

 

[Quagmire 2147]

He says gaming, but the transition to porn will be soon and you really don't need all that fire power for that. 

Yep better invest in a jizz proof keyboard

[elfenix 34658]

On 4/30/2019 at 10:33 AM, ztejas said:

https://www.sagernotebook.com/Best-Gaming-Laptops/?af=G1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxueiwpH4

Spoiler

 

4QIVUb7ACh0rOw9qEAAYASAAEgKWt_D_BwE

Don't look back. Spend whatever you think is reasonable. 

They are made by ze Germans. Mine is still kicking just fine after 3-4 years of heavy use (all the way through college) although it's shelved now that I have a new desktop.  

that's a clevo (taiwanese engineering and chinese manufacturing) chassis.  only thing sager is doing is screwing in ram and SSD.  they may pick a specific panel for the screen as well. 

[ztejas 44114]

10 hours ago, elfenix said:

that's a clevo (taiwanese engineering and chinese manufacturing) chassis.  only thing sager is doing is screwing in ram and SSD.  they may pick a specific panel for the screen as well. 

I am aware. I own one. 

Should have said they are assembled by ze Germans. Which they do very well, at a great price point, while providing excellent customer service. 

I don't think you would save any money by trying to part out and build a gaming laptop yourself.

[Fudge Nuggets 19407]

On 4/30/2019 at 6:07 PM, midtown said:

I'll aks him what kind of gaming he wants to do when I get back from vacation

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk
 

Our man went on vacation and left his kid(s) behind.  This is how you parent, people.