Chaos on Pennybacker

[Wally Pryor 5262]

Holy shit. 

A man who died at the hands of Austin police officers Sunday evening after a frightening episode of domestic violence on the Pennybacker Bridge over Lake Austin sent texts to his stepdaughter telling her he was about to be killed by officers, authorities said.

Roughly an hour later, his prediction became reality when two officers — one wielding a handgun, the other a rifle — opened fire on the 45-year-old, who could be heard on body-worn camera footage telling them “I have a gun” and “I will shoot you,” police said.

Authorities on Monday afternoon had not identified the man or the officers who fired their weapons. Austin Police Chief Brian Manley said one officer had spent seven years on the force and the other was a four-year veteran with the department.

Both have been placed on administrative duty while concurrent internal and criminal investigations play out, per department policy.

Manley said officers initially rushed to the bridge around 5:10 p.m. after being told of an escalating case of domestic violence that was spinning out of control on the northern end of the Pennybacker Bridge on Capital of Texas Highway (Loop 360).

He said the man was driving with a woman believed to be his wife when a disturbance began in their vehicle. The chief didn’t go into specifics on what was said or done inside, but at some point, the woman bolted out of the vehicle and ran to another car for help. But when she got inside, things became more violent.

Video from a bystander’s dashboard camera shared on social media showed the man using his truck to drive the wrong way on Loop 360 and slam head-on into the car she had entered, crushing the front section of the vehicle and pushing it backward into traffic.

A woman is then seen running across lanes of traffic, trying to get help from other drivers before a man approaches her from behind, grabs her in a bear hug and carries her away.

A few of the drivers, now stopped on the highway, start to bail out of their vehicles to try to help as the couple exits the camera’s field of view.

Manley said emergency operators received calls from numerous witnesses who said a woman had been pushed to the ground and was being pinned, and more from others who reported an injured woman on the ground. The chief said police also received a report that a woman had been stabbed.

The intervention by witnesses, Manley said, likely resulted in the man taking off into a wooded area before police arrived, triggering a search that lasted more than an hour.

The man texted his stepdaughter around 6 p.m. and said her mother was alright, but that he was “going to be killed by officers tonight,” Manley said.

Officers used a police dog to track the man down in the woods, and ordered him to drop his weapon. At 6:21 p.m., the officers began shooting. Police did not provide details on what prompted officers to fire.

Roughly 15 minutes later, first responders started CPR on the man and took him to an area hospital where he was pronounced dead, Manley said. The woman was also taken to an area hospital in serious condition, but with injuries that were not believed to be life-threatening.

Police were scouring the area Monday morning for evidence, including a possible weapon that the man claimed to have.

“This was, as you can tell, a very dynamic scene that took place over an hour, starting with some type of an assault in a vehicle that led to a crash and a foot pursuit,” Manley said.

https://www.statesman.com/news/20190429/crash-pursuit-of-wife-on-pennybacker-bridge-ends-with-police-shooting-man-45

Edited April 30, 2019 by Wally Pryor

[The Maestro 758]

I was on 360 headed South when this happened.   I got stuck in traffic just before the light to cross the bridge.   With all the police cars arriving I knew something bad had happened.   Crazy shit

[phdhorn 6224]

How do they not know who this guy is?  I mean, he was with some woman (presumably his wife).  Did they not ID or talk to the woman?  Was she too badly injured to say WTF was going on and who this guy is?  Weird.

[Native Horn 3515]

He's been ID'd.

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/family-member-identifies-man-killed-by-police-following-domestic-disturbance-at-360-bridge

[phdhorn 6224]

Yeah it was just weird that the article said that after 24 hours.  They obviously had to sit on it or the woman was too injured to talk.

I do like this from the article you posted:
 

Quote

My brother was against guns, against hunting, against anything," she said.

The family member said Dodero was non-violent and thinks police had other options. "He did so much good and was my mother's pillar," she said.

"He was a good kid."  Obviously a non-violent guy.  The truck must have taken off and dragged him along without much choice.  Kind of like when you see headlines that say "SUV plows into stopped vehicles."  Truck must have been a relative of Christine.

[XYZ 2154]

Why did they shoot him?

[huge 3795]

Just now, XYZ said:

Why did they shoot him?

suicide by cop...

[next2naus 439]

I did not know Brain Manly was the Chief, he's a great guy.

[Your Mom 4850]

18 minutes ago, XYZ said:

Why did they shoot him?

Just spitballing here but I'd guess it had something to do with this:

2 hours ago, Wally Pryor said:

... opened fire on the 45-year-old, who could be heard on body-worn camera footage telling them “I have a gun” and “I will shoot you,” 

I'm as leery of cops motives as anyone but if it goes down like that, you get what's coming.  

[Uncle Nate 2097]

Quote

...sent texts to his stepdaughter telling her he was about to be killed by officers, authorities said.

Roughly an hour later, his prediction became reality when two officers... 

Premeditated suicide by cop.

And fuck him for doing that.  Not only hurting his loved ones by selfishly taking his own life, but also potentially ruining the lives of these cops. Killing someone, even if justified, takes a huge toll on a person. These guys will never be the same, even if they had no other choice.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Uncle Nate

[hayden_horn 11365]

29 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

Just spitballing here but I'd guess it had something to do with this:

I'm as leery of cops motives as anyone but if it goes down like that, you get what's coming.  

while i agree that this guy was determined to be killed by cops, if they started shooting without knowing whether this dude actually had a weapon, i'm still going to have a problem with it.

the cowboy culture of texas cops needs to be curtailed. 

if it all went down according to current reporting, then the guy was determined to die. i guess for some of yall that doesn't warrant any sympathy, but just because someone wants the cops to kill them doesn't mean the cops SHOULD kill them.

[Pato del Muerto 52588]

51 minutes ago, Your Mom said:

Just spitballing here but I'd guess it had something to do with this:

I'm as leery of cops motives as anyone but if it goes down like that, you get what's coming.  

You left out the last couple of words, which may or may not be important. “Police said.”  The cops told us what’s on the body cams but haven’t yet showed us. If it went down like they said, the video will be released at some point. 

[Wally Pryor 5262]

58 minutes ago, next2naus said:

I did not know Brain Manly was the Chief, he's a great guy.

He does seem like it. 

Got the job after his handling of the bomber situation last spring.  Outside of a couple hiccups early on in that investigation, Manley was outstanding all around. 

[irishtexan 11522]

If a guy comes up to you and says "I have a gun, I'm going to shoot you" and you shoot him first, is that justifiable? Probably, right? So If a guy tells a cop, "I have a gun and I'm going to shoot you" and makes any kind of move to pull a concealed weapon, he's gonna get killed. End of story.

I am generally distrustful of police. I hate that there are so many shitty corrupt cops. I hate that their fellow officers cover for those "bad cops" but still believe themselves to be "good cops." I believe cops don't do nearly enough (or receive enough training in) to deescalate. But I do understand they are in a precarious position of occasionally having to take on the "bad guys" and that when someone says "I have a gun. I'm going to shoot you" and they make a move, shooting that person first is justifiable nearly every time - for a cop or for a private citizen.

[irishtexan 11522]

1 minute ago, BurntEyes said:

You're casting a very broad brush on self defense. The rules of deadly use of force in self defense vary greatly state by state.

In Texas you must fear for your life.

So taking you example away from either person's home, one guy is found dead from a gun shot wound from another.

Guy claim he said he had a gun and was going to kill me.

No gun was found. There were no witnesses. There is no history between the men. There was nothing that happened before that anyone witnessed. (All of which may or may not be the case in the instance above)

Even in Texas with pretty strong pro self defense laws in place, it isn't clear cut that the guy is walking uncharged on self defense. In fact, I would say it was very unlikely.

In New York he is absolutely being charged for homicide.

 

The guy texted his step daughter to say he was going to be killed by the police that night. I'm assuming the body cam footage cited in the article accurately documented him saying "i've got a gun and I'm going to kill you". It was his plan to be killed by the cops. You say those words and you make a sudden move to grab something in your waistband under your shirt or behind your back, then the other person has justifiable fear for their life. Sometimes a shooting is justified. If the events were accurately portrayed in the article, this would be an example of that.  

If he didn't say that, or if he had his arms in the air when he said it and never made a move, then there wasn't justifiable fear for his life.

[XYZ 2154]

1 minute ago, irishtexan said:

The guy texted his step daughter to say he was going to be killed by the police that night. I'm assuming the body cam footage cited in the article accurately documented him saying "i've got a gun and I'm going to kill you". It was his plan to be killed by the cops. You say those words and you make a sudden move to grab something in your waistband under your shirt or behind your back, then the other person has justifiable fear for their life. Sometimes a shooting is justified. If the events were accurately portrayed in the article, this would be an example of that.  

If he didn't say that, or if he had his arms in the air when he said it and never made a move, then there wasn't justifiable fear for his life.

How close were the cops to him? Were they under cover? Did the guy actually have a gun? Did he ambush the cops? Because it sounds like a manhunt. So if the “perp” runs into the woods and the cops chase him, I have a hard time visualizing the “fear for their lives” angle. It looks more like what predators do.

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

1 minute ago, XYZ said:

How close were the cops to him? Were they under cover? Did the guy actually have a gun? Did he ambush the cops? Because it sounds like a manhunt. So if the “perp” runs into the woods and the cops chase him, I have a hard time visualizing the “fear for their lives” angle. It looks more like what predators do.

Dead men don't testify. Rule #1A.

[irishtexan 11522]

4 minutes ago, XYZ said:

How close were the cops to him? Were they under cover? Did the guy actually have a gun? Did he ambush the cops? Because it sounds like a manhunt. So if the “perp” runs into the woods and the cops chase him, I have a hard time visualizing the “fear for their lives” angle. It looks more like what predators do.

Undercover? What the fuck are you talking about? You didn't read the article, did you? The guy was in a physical altercation with a woman in his car. She jumped out of his car and frantically jumped into another car to seek help. No one does that unless they are in serious fear for their safety. The guy then drives his car the wrong way on 360 and smashes his car into the car that the woman jumped into. They then got out and he wrestled her to the ground and tried to drag her away. So yes. This was a manhunt for a guy that beat up his wife and fled.

 

10 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

We aren't that far apart.

Where we differ is until I know that all the things claimed are facts and not claims and know the specifics of the shooting I'm reserving judgement.

There are some big IFs in your post above.

Agree that if the account did not happen as noted, then it's not so cut and dry. But when you have a guy that assaults his g/w/w, smashed his car into the car she tried to escape in, told his step daughter he would be killed by the police, and then body cam footage says "I have a gun. I'm going to kill you", then it all adds up. This isn't the Houston no-knock raid. 

[formermav43 4606]

13 minutes ago, XYZ said:

How close were the cops to him? Were they under cover? Did the guy actually have a gun? Did he ambush the cops? Because it sounds like a manhunt. So if the “perp” runs into the woods and the cops chase him, I have a hard time visualizing the “fear for their lives” angle. It looks more like what predators do.

Right? Aside from steering his vehicle into oncoming traffic to cause a head-on collision, pulling a woman from the car and bear-hugging her, pinning her to the ground, and allegedly stabbing her, there was no reason to fear this guy was potentially violent. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by formermav43

[RomaVicta 30011]

Irish Texan assumes that there's more to the provocation than the victim's statements. There is no evidence to support that as yet.

911 callers would have been asked if they had seen a gun. Did anyone answer yes? Seems it would have been mentioned in the press briefing.

We don't know nearly enough to conclude it was or was not a good shooting.

My gut feeling is that the police could have stood off and waited for a trained negotiator. We will see.

[phdhorn 6224]

IMO, a guy who slams his car into someone else with at least the unconcern, if not pointed intent, that someone will be killed, and who continues to exhibit life-threatening actions after that, well let's just say that shooting and killing this guy isn't at this point as egregious as some other police shootings.  At the very least.

Or, a violent person who showed that they are more than willing to kill someone gets killed, yawn.

[XYZ 2154]

The perp was clearly not of sound mind, nobody is arguing that. What I question is did the cops NEED to kill him?

[Horn_Spanker 524]

At least they didn't rape him.  

Is that thug mentality gone since Art left?  Do we have good guys now?

[Brisketexan 105315]

3 hours ago, next2naus said:

I did not know Brain Manly was the Chief, he's a great guy.

I've met him a few times (we even get our haircut at the same place....yeah, I have a boring haircut).  He's willing to engage in conversation about some tough topics.  Nobody's perfect, but he's a step up for us.

2 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

while i agree that this guy was determined to be killed by cops, if they started shooting without knowing whether this dude actually had a weapon, i'm still going to have a problem with it.

the cowboy culture of texas cops needs to be curtailed. 

if it all went down according to current reporting, then the guy was determined to die. i guess for some of yall that doesn't warrant any sympathy, but just because someone wants the cops to kill them doesn't mean the cops SHOULD kill them.

I'm definitely withholding judgment here.  IF the facts are as they've been relayed, I suspect it's a justifiable shooting.

1) a suspect with an immediate history of serious violence (like, it happened minutes ago).

2) retreats to a wooded area (where it's difficult to see exactly what he's doing).

3) that area is very close to a lot of civilians (both passerby and residents)

4) this violent person keeps telling you he has a gun and is going to shoot you.

5) the person does something (makes a move, charges at you, something like that) that tells you that, if he has a gun, he is an immediate threat to you and others.

Under that set of facts, I believe that shooting the suspect is justified.  We shall see what the facts show.

[hayden_horn 11365]

1 hour ago, phdhorn said:

IMO, a guy who slams his car into someone else with at least the unconcern, if not pointed intent, that someone will be killed, and who continues to exhibit life-threatening actions after that, well let's just say that shooting and killing this guy isn't at this point as egregious as some other police shootings.  At the very least.

Or, a violent person who showed that they are more than willing to kill someone gets killed, yawn.

i understand this mentality, but i still need evidence that they had a legitimate fear of this guy. 

yes, he went psycho with the car. but after he's fled into the woods, did the cops have a legitimate fear for their life? that's the metric. 

just because a violent person wants to die at the hands of the cops doesn't mean the cops have to kill him.

the military rules of engagement are stricter than those we assign to cops. i'm not sure that should be the case.

[phdhorn 6224]

Yes but apparently he said he had a gun and will kill, and made a move to threaten.  He already almost killed people with his car, and apparently by stabbing the woman (who will survive).

I think there are some instances/people that, sorry, played their aces out.  This guy is one of them.  Understanding the facts could change of course, which would lead to other reactions, my point is that even based on this evidence, this guy submitted his "kill me" card pretty openly.  This is at the very least not a typical "cop problem" situation, not at all.  He had already caused injury, it wasn't like the facts are unclear on that.

Another side argument which I won't deal with right now, is the oft-repeated "defense" that this guy "wasn't mentally right" or some other "moment of rage".  Maybe, maybe not.  But even if this guy thought he was Attila the Hun, you injure or kill others, and show no immediate course of action differently, which apparently multiple witnesses said is the way it went down, then I simply don't have any problem with offing him.  I'm not dancing in the street about it, it's sad.  But all of that goes out the window when he continues to pose an immediate danger to the public.  And man, he was, period.

If the cops somehow fucked this up, it's gonna be a really tough sell to a grand jury.  Maybe, with a very slightly microscopic maybe, they could have waited.  But I have no problem at this point whatsoever that they didn't.  In any case, this is clearly not a typical "bad cop" situation.  Not at all.

[High Plains Drifter 11052]

3 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

You left out the last couple of words, which may or may not be important. “Police said.”  The cops told us what’s on the body cams but haven’t yet showed us. If it went down like they said, the video will be released at some point. 

Well, its not like cops have ever lied about what video footage actually showed or anything like that.

[3adays 454]

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/eyewitness-describes-suspects-final-moments-near-pennybacker-bridge

The above link has an interesting interview with a bystander who stepped in to help. He and others had the suspect pinned down when someone came up claiming to be a “federal agent” and told them to let him up. It was at that point he ran to the woods. 

 

[CooterBrown 18027]

https://www.facebook.com/carlos.dodero.3

Looks like they just got married this month and just got back from their honeymoon in Greece.

 

[Gardner Barnes 1562]

This happened right in front of me. Literally. I had a front row seat to this entire thing. On the video taken from SB 360 the Honda suv almost backs up into my vehicle.

I thought it was a bunch of drunks TBH

I was stuck there for over an hour.

[MissingInAction 25178]

Maybe he named his dick "a gun", and was masturbating furtively in the cops direction?

[wild_turkey 3182]

2 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

but after he's fled into the woods, did the cops have a legitimate fear for their life? that's the metric. 

Is that the only metric? The man just committed acts of violence, was on the run in the woods, and claiming to have a gun which he intended to kill with. Suppose the cops didn't fear for their lives but they also didn't have a way to cleanly apprehend him. If they let him run and he later harms other civilians, then what? Maybe they took him down for the sake of public safety.

There's a lot of ifs and maybes in the story, but based on what we know so far, it seems reasonable that this guy was shot. If different facts come out later, then we can all be outraged.

[hayden_horn 11365]

6 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

Is that the only metric? The man just committed acts of violence, was on the run in the woods, and claiming to have a gun which he intended to kill with. Suppose the cops didn't fear for their lives but they also didn't have a way to cleanly apprehend him. If they let him run and he later harms other civilians, then what? Maybe they took him down for the sake of public safety.

There's a lot of ifs and maybes in the story, but based on what we know so far, it seems reasonable that this guy was shot. If different facts come out later, then we can all be outraged.

to be clear, i'm not necessarily outraged, but more inclined to not believe the first cop account outright. but the account is confusing, i will grant you that:

Quote

Lokey caught up with the suspect and together with another man was able to subdue the. But the situation was only under control for a few moments.

"We had him pinned down. Some people had called the cops and then somebody walked up and said I'm a federal agent, y'all can get off of him and he pointed at the assailant and he said you can go wait over there," said Lokey.

Lokey says he had no reason to doubt the man claiming to be a federal agent so he and the other man holding Dodero let him go. Within seconds Lokey says Dodero was running across the Pennybacker Bridge and into a wooded area. A short time later, shots rang out.

"I understand later, when he was in the woods, he claimed to the cops that he had a gun and he was going to shoot them and then that's when they shot him," said Lokey.

Lokey says he never saw a gun during the few minutes he and another man had Dodero pinned down.

"I could see all around his waistband that he didn't have a gun tucked in anywhere. He had on a t-shirt and if he'd had a pistol holstered, we would have seen it. I had his legs pinned down so if he had one hidden somewhere in his pants I would have noticed," said Lokey.

24 hours after the dangerous encounter, the husband and stepfather doesn't think his quick action deserves any recognition.

"I don't feel like a hero. I don't feel like I did anything unusual. I think anytime you see somebody who needs help you help them," said Lokey.

Lokey says he still doesn't understand why someone would pretend to be a federal agent and tell them to let go of the suspect. But he says if a situation like this ever comes up again, he'll ask to see a badge.

we need to know more about this federal agent who has no idea how to arrest and/or subdue a suspect.

[jimmyjazz 46120]

Didn't Manley indicate that the body cam footage was compromised or unclear?  I'm not sure we're going to get much there.

[Brisketexan 105315]

16 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

to be clear, i'm not necessarily outraged, but more inclined to not believe the first cop account outright. but the account is confusing, i will grant you that:

we need to know more about this federal agent who has no idea how to arrest and/or subdue a suspect.

The individual was last seen wearing this uniform:

[crash_davis 23115]

damn all that drama and getting yourself kilt over another person.  crazy stupid.

[hayden_horn 11365]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Didn't Manley indicate that the body cam footage was compromised or unclear?  I'm not sure we're going to get much there.

weird how that always seems to happen when a civilian body turns up with cop bullets inside it.

[hayden_horn 11365]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The individual was last seen wearing this uniform:

[Trey3216 15355]

2 hours ago, High Plains Drifter said:

Well, its not like cops have ever lied about what video footage actually showed or anything like that.

It's also not typical that when this happens they have dozens of passerby eye-witnesses, i.e., eye-witnesses with zero loyalty or bias to the immediately preceding events.  

[3adays 454]

The cops were trying like hell to find a gun yesterday. I passed over the Pennybacker Bridge around 4:30PM and they were still looking. Oddly enough at that same time their was an ambulance on the south bound lane of the bridge and some dude was strapped to a gurney. To clarify, this was on Monday a day after the incident. 

[Gardner Barnes 1562]

The cops were trying like hell to find a gun yesterday. I passed over the Pennybacker Bridge around 4:30PM and they were still looking. Oddly enough at that same time their was an ambulance on the south bound lane of the bridge and some dude was strapped to a gurney. To clarify, this was on Monday a day after the incident. 

People fall off that cliff all the time.

[Steel Shank 9430]

That's her (the victim) on the left in the bikini.

 

[jimmyjazz 46120]

So . . . is there any confirmation that the guy actually HAD a gun?

[Dbeasy 15090]

The individual was last seen wearing this uniform:

"FBI: Female Body Inspector."
"You know, because we're both in law enforcement, we both like women, but hey I got a weird sense of humor."

[phdhorn 6224]

Rep for posting a gigantic picture.  Face is meh, but... wait... she has a face?
Looks like she's in for a new companion...

[irishtexan 11522]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Didn't Manley indicate that the body cam footage was compromised or unclear?  I'm not sure we're going to get much there.

 

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

weird how that always seems to happen when a civilian body turns up with cop bullets inside it.

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, hayden_horn said:

weird how that always seems to happen when a civilian body turns up with cop bullets inside it.

well, look, if you don't do anything that a cop arbitrarily decides is worth shooting you over, you have NOTHING to worry about

[mightyfine 3]

The cops were trying like hell to find a gun yesterday. I passed over the Pennybacker Bridge around 4:30PM and they were still looking. Oddly enough at that same time their was an ambulance on the south bound lane of the bridge and some dude was strapped to a gurney. To clarify, this was on Monday a day after the incident. 

I was going to post about this. I drove by right as the ambulance had arrived and the cops had the shirtless guy handcuffed laying on his back the on the shoulder. Don't recall seeing any other vehicles stopped other than the patrol car and the ambulance. Trying to search for info on that later yesterday evening was futile as all the keywords for searching obviously brought up stories of the shooting and that ordeal

[SHOOTER12 8826]

1 hour ago, Steel Shank said:

That's her (the victim) on the left in the bikini.

 

I'd stab that.....

[LongestHorn 759]

undefeated