Jump to content

Jamaal Charles Hanging em Up.

Patrick Bateman

By Patrick Bateman
in Football

 Share

Recommended Posts

ztejas

ztejas 43528

Posted
Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Kinda funny. I think the more outrageous statement/question of the the two you responded to was him being the most athletic dude. And I’m not saying he isn’t.

What the fuck are you talking about... no one said the "most athletic" anything as far as I've gathered. 

As for the rest - no he isn't deserving of the hall of fame. Try and be somewhat objective because you're looking at this through a 2 foot thick burnt orange piece of glass. 

Injuries happen and derail many careers. You don't make the hall because you were awesome before you got injured. Had he not been sidelined due to injury his yards per carry wouldn't be what it is. 

Also - at the same time - had he stayed healthy yes he probably makes the hall. 

Edited by ztejas
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cam4mav

cam4mav 771

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 

Injuries happen and derail many careers. You don't make the hall because you were awesome before you got injured. Had he not been sidelined due to injury his yards per carry wouldn't be what it is. 

 

it's not like his YPC was an outlier on like 200 or less rushing attempts total or something. I agree with your other points but framing his YPC record as some anomaly that wouldn't hold up if he was healthy and got more carries is...... just illogical. That makes zero sense. He really was just that fucking good at turning nothing into something and something into 80 yard TD's. Dude's jersey was coated in teflon mixed with sprinter speed. JC was the truth.

 

 

  • Hook 'Em 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites
wood

wood 11243

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, cam4mav said:

it's not like his YPC was an outlier on like 200 or less rushing attempts total or something. I agree with your other points but framing his YPC record as some anomaly that wouldn't hold up if he was healthy and got more carries is...... just illogical. That makes zero sense. He really was just that fucking good at turning nothing into something and something into 80 yard TD's. Dude's jersey was coated in teflon mixed with sprinter speed. JC was the truth.

Yep. A 5.4 ypc avg over 1400+ carries is not anomalous. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ztejas

ztejas 43528

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, cam4mav said:

it's not like his YPC was an outlier on like 200 or less rushing attempts total or something. I agree with your other points but framing his YPC record as some anomaly that wouldn't hold up if he was healthy and got more carries is...... just illogical. That makes zero sense. He really was just that fucking good at turning nothing into something and something into 80 yard TD's. Dude's jersey was coated in teflon mixed with sprinter speed. JC was the truth.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, wood said:

Yep. A 5.4 ypc avg over 1400+ carries is not anomalous. 

Not saying it isn't impressive. Just that it probably would have fallen down a bit were he to have a longer career.

Again - were he to have a longer career he would have put up more numbers and been a lock for the hall. I just think where he stands is weird territory. Volume wise he wasn't quite there to be heralded as one of the greats - even though he was definitely on track for that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
cam4mav

cam4mav 771

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, ztejas said:

 

Not saying it isn't impressive. Just that it probably would have fallen down a bit were he to have a longer career.

Again - were he to have a longer career he would have put up more numbers and been a lock for the hall. I just think where he stands is weird territory. Volume wise he wasn't quite there to be heralded as one of the greats - even though he was definitely on track for that.

agree to disagree (aka you are being big dumb), but to state 1400+ carries and 5.4 YPC would have gone down had he gotten more carries, given he was healthy, is just fucking silly. He was the ONLY weapon on some absolutely shite chiefs teams. It's such a shame that his injuries kept him from playing a bigger role in the Andy Reid / Alex Smith Chiefs turn around. And treating 1400 carries like it's too small of a sample size to be of use is just..... no. 

 

Agree his career totals are in this weird zone of "yes he was really fucking good" and "no that's not quite a HOF career". 

 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
ztejas

ztejas 43528

Posted
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, cam4mav said:

agree to disagree (aka you are being big dumb), but to state 1400+ carries and 5.4 YPC would have gone down had he gotten more carries, given he was healthy, is just fucking silly. He was the ONLY weapon on some absolutely shite chiefs teams. It's such a shame that his injuries kept him from playing a bigger role in the Andy Reid / Alex Smith Chiefs turn around. And treating 1400 carries like it's too small of a sample size to be of use is just..... no. 

 

Agree his career totals are in this weird zone of "yes he was really fucking good" and "no that's not quite a HOF career". 

 

Whatever dude. Not doing this namby pamby dance at 2 a fucking clock in the morning. 

JC was sick. You're grasping at straws and we're mostly on the same page. Hook 'em and fuck OU. 

Edited by ztejas
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
South Austin

South Austin 52568

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, cochamps said:

Gayle Sayers says hi.

No he doesn’t. Because Gayle Sayers is dead, Jim.

Sayers was elected to the HOF in an era before the offensive explosion in the NFL which produced crowded lines of players with impressive career stats vying to get in.  And Sayers was electric at a time when we just didn’t see players like that, and still hadn’t when he got in the HOF. Seems like these days that longevity and/or Super Bowls is what can tip the scales in your favor. 

As impressive as his injury-shortened career was, I don’t think Jamaal gets in.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Had Enough

Had Enough 2085

Posted
Posted
What the fuck are you talking about... no one said the "most athletic" anything as far as I've gathered. 
As for the rest - no he isn't deserving of the hall of fame. Try and be somewhat objective because you're looking at this through a 2 foot thick burnt orange piece of glass. 
Injuries happen and derail many careers. You don't make the hall because you were awesome before you got injured. Had he not been sidelined due to injury his yards per carry wouldn't be what it is. 
Also - at the same time - had he stayed healthy yes he probably makes the hall. 

I exchanged athletic for talented. Excuse the hell out of me. My point is still the same.

There are older guys in the Hall with lesser stats than Charles. No way in hell was Jerome Bettis a better RB than him. If we’re going to be a stats compiler rather truly the best of all time, that’s fine. If you want to say, 5 years of production is not enough, I understand. If you were to just consider a players peak and not just 1 or 2 years, then Charles could be in a discussion with that top group. And unfortunately Earl didn’t have more better years or a longer career than Charles. He just got more carries over those same years. Earls and Charles total yards from scrimmage were similar.

And I don’t think Charles will come close to the Hall because I think more voters are concerned with the compiler aspect of it. He did some amazing things on crappy teams.

If you were to compare Charles at his best years to others at their best years, then he’s in the discussion amongst the best. I’m talking 5 best years. For him, you just can’t go out 6, 7, 8 years.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Revolution512

Revolution512 1495

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, wood said:

VY was the most dominant college player I've ever seen, but at a different position. Shit he was able to do still blows my mind, and if he was coming out into the current NFL, he would rewrite everything. Even as it is, he changed the game forever imho, even at the NFL level. When it comes to RBs, JC is up there with Ricky & Earl, imho, but I can't really see putting any of them ahead of VY10 the goat.

Vince peaked in Pasadena. He didn’t want the grind it took in the NFL

  • Fuck You 11
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cochamps

cochamps 1879

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, South Austin said:

No he doesn’t. Because Gayle Sayers is dead, Jim.

Sayers was elected to the HOF in an era before the offensive explosion in the NFL which produced crowded lines of players with impressive career stats vying to get in.  And Sayers was electric at a time when we just didn’t see players like that, and still hadn’t when he got in the HOF. Seems like these days that longevity and/or Super Bowls is what can tip the scales in your favor. 

As impressive as his injury-shortened career was, I don’t think Jamaal gets in.

Overreaction Friday?  My comment was just a response to his regarding not getting in with an injury shortened career.  Sayers was transcendent imo & deserves to be in.

I really don’t have a strong opinion about Jamal’s candidacy.

Tell your Mom hello.😉

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
mininghorn88

mininghorn88 2297

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

Yeah, the injury shortened career comment was bizarre. Terrell Davis is on hold on line 2 (and was not nearly the player either Sayers or Charles were).

Beat me to it. Came here to post that. He was above 1000 yards only 4 or 5 times with one of those years at 2000 yards or so. About 7500 yards for his career.

Edited by mininghorn88
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 6724

Posted
Posted

I’m guessing the point trying to be made about the injury shortening his career is this - Running backs not named Ricky Williams see a drop in production as they age. Some of them greatly. If Charles stays healthy and slows down, there’s no way his YPC doesn’t drop.

In his prime and when heathy, dude was absolutely special.

Does anyone wanna buy the cleats he wore against NE when he ran for a couple of hundred yards in the 4th qtr? I know a guy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Had Enough

Had Enough 2085

Posted
Posted
Beat me to it. Came here to post that. He was above 1000 yards only 4 or 5 times with one of those years at 2000 yards or so. About 7500 yards for his career.

Right. Also look at Earl’s career. Not that much different from Charles. More rushing TDS but no receiving production. I didn’t look up Davis but maybe similar.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
wood

wood 11243

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, UncleSonny said:

Is Chris Johnson a Hall of Famer? He basically had a 6 great seasons, including one of the best year's a rb has ever had in '09.

Most of those with VY in the backfield freeing him up. There's a striking difference between his numbers with VY and without. CJ was awesome though. Fast af. But Jamaal did it in a shitty offense where he was the main threat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Blotto

Blotto 23568

Posted
Posted

I'm a Broncos fan and will gladly admit Charles was a better pro rb than Davis. But, TD was a key figure on a b2b Super bowl winning team. He was the key guy on that 98 team, morso than Elway.  Without that success on the biggest stage the NFL offers, TD doesnt get in either. 

image.thumb.png.d856685858c6b1e9f6455999df3e1c95.png

It sucks for guys like JC,  but HOFs favor guys with rings. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Had Enough

Had Enough 2085

Posted
Posted

Here’s some interesting info on JC. Year 1 was basically a waste while Chiefs won 2 games. Larry Johnson carried the load. His numbers weren’t good. Two years prior Johnson had 1,800 rush yards. LJ had about 3x the Carries and averaged 4.5 to 5.3 for JC.

Year 2. JC had 190 Carries versus LJs 132. YPC of 5.9 versus 2.9. 7 TDs versus 0. That’s a hell of a disparity and could lead one to believe JC should have been getting more chances not only year 2 but probably year 1. Jamaal only started 10 games.

Unfortunately this didn’t extend his career in the end but rather limited his best years.

Year 3. Thomas Jones had more carries at 3.7 per versus 6.4. The carry difference was only 245 to 230. The year prior Jones had 1,400 rushing.

Matt Cassel and young Alex Smith were his QBs. Again, his first 8 seasons he never averaged less than 5.0 yards per rush. The first or second leading ball carrier on his teams in those years never averaged 5 yards. Often they were less than 4 per carry.

He won’t get anywhere near the Hall would be my guess but due to numbers and longevity. He had a unique skill set like few others. The burst and acceleration or rather lack of deceleration out of the cut are in the small minority of 2 or 3 ever. Yes, had he played longer that YPC comes down. But he also had mediocre support and mostly had year 1 pissed away and another year with an early injury.

Pretty impressive.

(Yes, I know this was not requested but it piques curiosity when such discussions come up.)

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 2 months later...
RabidM

RabidM 2668

Posted
Posted

Jamaal is one of the most underappreciated players ever. The knee injuries will ultimately keep him out, but he deserves it. He was crazy special. I love watching his highlights... the NFL  highlights are just as sick as the college ones. What he did athletically at the position was unprecedented.

  • Hook 'Em 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Horn Dogg

Horn Dogg 3939

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, RabidM said:

Jamaal is one of the most underappreciated players ever. The knee injuries will ultimately keep him out, but he deserves it. He was crazy special. I love watching his highlights... the NFL  highlights are just as sick as the college ones. What he did athletically at the position was unprecedented.

I still watch that 80 yard TD vs OU in 2005 every so often!  The Ramonce Taylor block on that big ass D-lineman was bad ass as well.

 

Edited by Horn Dogg
  • Hook 'Em 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Had Enough

Had Enough 2085

Posted
Posted
Jamaal is one of the most underappreciated players ever. The knee injuries will ultimately keep him out, but he deserves it. He was crazy special. I love watching his highlights... the NFL  highlights are just as sick as the college ones. What he did athletically at the position was unprecedented.

Two plays come to mind.

Knocking the piss out of AJ Hawk after the pick. AND….

the most under appreciated play of all time in the context of what it may have done for us. Late in the 1st half versus tOSU. Catches a pass but rather than immediately go out of bounds to stop the clock he cuts upfield for enough yards to get us in FG range before half. We don’t get that FG, our chances of winning decrease quite a bit.
  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
South Austin

South Austin 52568

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Two plays come to mind.

Knocking the piss out of AJ Hawk after the pick. AND….

the most under appreciated play of all time in the context of what it may have done for us. Late in the 1st half versus tOSU. Catches a pass but rather than immediately go out of bounds to stop the clock he cuts upfield for enough yards to get us in FG range before half. We don’t get that FG, our chances of winning decrease quite a bit.

I remember both of those plays vividly.  Underrated plays when considering the entirety of his Longhorn career, but they showed how just a couple games into his true freshman season that he was going to be a special player for us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Had Enough

Had Enough 2085

Posted
Posted
I remember both of those plays vividly.  Underrated plays when considering the entirety of his Longhorn career, but they showed how just a couple games into his true freshman season that he was going to be a special player for us.

No doubt. He could play physical for his size. And the Hawk hit in that environment was pretty awesome and memorable.

And as a side note in that game, he had another modest run weaving in and out of traffic that was awesome to see from the end zone view. From that view, there were no holes to run through. He had to make moves at each level to create those yards.

There are certain guys that have a unique characteristic that makes them fun to watch. That’s JC. A strong runner for his slight frame with great vision and unmatched acceleration out of a cut.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
B00M

B00M 6457

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, T-shirt Sip said:

I missed the Nebraska game where he rushed for like 1000 yards in the 4th. I just want to see the entirety of that quarter and can't find it anywhere. 

Dude. You need to watch that whole game to truly appreciate that insane 4th quarter.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Popular Post
SpiralOut

SpiralOut 1818

Posted
  • Popular Post
Posted

To this day it still chaps my ass that people don't understand how much luck and outside forces control an athlete's destiny, especially in football.

Everyone now is of the opinion that Vince wasn't great in the NFL (I'd argue his ever improving stats suggest he just hadn't hit his stride yet).  Someone in this very thread stated that Vince just couldn't hack it in the NFL because he didn't want to commit to the grind.  Yeah, ok.  Sure, buddy.  Being drafted by the Titans to play for a HC that not only didn't want him as a QB, who was actively trying to sabotage his career, probably hurt his chances of becoming a great NFL QB.  Maybe having an idiot HC who favored a washed-up drunk and Norm Chow as an OC might have hurt his chances a bit.  Just maybe.

Now compare Vince's situation to, say, Aaron Rodgers.  Instead of going to a bottom-feeder team with no talent and an idiotic, malicious HC, he fell down to the bottom of the 1st round of the Draft and got picked by the Packers.  Instead of being immediately thrown to the wolves with no help, Aaron got to sit on the sidelines and learn the game.  He got to watch future HoFer Brett Favre play every week.  Instead of being sabotaged at every turn, ol' Aaron had the full support of a top-flight organization who did everything to nurture this guy's talent and help him maximize his talent.  Or do you all think Aaron Rodgers would be a sure-fire HoF lock and a Super Bowl winner under Fisher with the Titans?

We all get that life isn't fair.  So I'll never understand why we only acknowledge that when things don't work out for us or others.  When people get lucky with their circumstances we act like they got there all on their own through just their hard work and talent.  Bull-fucking-shit.  Tom Brady would be a middling, retired QB who might not have even seen the field if he didn't A) get drafted by Belichick and B) if Drew Bledsoe didn't get obliterated against the Jets.  All credit to Brady for making the most of his chance, but he got incredibly lucky. 

All of that to say, Jamaal absolutely deserves to be in the Hall.  Forces outside his control severely limited his playing time early in his career, made him basically a one-man show in KC, and then eventually wrecked his knees and ended his career.  Despite everything, dude still did stuff no one else has managed to achieve.  Maybe one day Tyreek Hill or some other super special talent will surpass his YPC, but Jamaal did it first.  And he didn't have a Mahomes or a Kelce or an Andy Reid to help him.   

People always love to talk about speed, but I think the word that goes best with Jamaal is agility.  Like, he personifies the word.  I have a picture of him somewhere on an old hard drive in a game for the Horns where he is making a cut and he is legitimately almost perpendicular with the ground.  Dude had radical balance.  He could bounce out of almost anything.  You think he'll be going down any second now and he just keeps cutting and moving and dodging and embarrassing the fuck out of defenders.  He was a once-in-a-generation talent.  Oh, and he also happens to be a nice dude, too. 

Sorry about the rant, but fuck anyone not bowing down to the greatness of Jamaal fucking Charles.  He was one of the greatest players we've ever had on the 40 acres and he took that to the NFL and dominated.  If he had stronger knee ligaments he'd be going down in history as arguably the greatest RB of all-time. 

  • Hook 'Em 7
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites
cam4mav

cam4mav 771

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, SpiralOut said:

People always love to talk about speed, but I think the word that goes best with Jamaal is agility.  Like, he personifies the word.  I have a picture of him somewhere on an old hard drive in a game for the Horns where he is making a cut and he is legitimately almost perpendicular with the ground.  Dude had radical balance.  He could bounce out of almost anything.  You think he'll be going down any second now and he just keeps cutting and moving and dodging and embarrassing the fuck out of defenders.  He was a once-in-a-generation talent.  Oh, and he also happens to be a nice dude, too. 

 

As our lord and savior Greg Davis once said.....

 

"he's like a wisp of smoke"

 

His speed turned his 20 yard runs into 80 yard runs. His agility/balance turned his 3 yard runs into those 20 yard runs. That's why he's the YPC leader in all of the history of the got damned national fucking football league.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Johnny Sack

Johnny Sack 8397

Posted
Posted

JC almost never got stopped for a loss or no gain.  Which is why I was always perplexed how we would bring in Melton or Selvin for short yardage.  He was by far our best short yardage back.  And personally I think he has a couple more 50+ yard TD runs had we let him handle all the second/third/fourth and 1s.  Stacking the box against him is dangerous.  You better not miss.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business and Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Subscribe!... Donate!... Advertise... COOKIE MONSTER!

×
×
  • Create New...