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Jamaal Charles Hanging em Up.

Patrick Bateman

By Patrick Bateman
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cam4mav

cam4mav 771

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

JC almost never got stopped for a loss or no gain.  Which is why I was always perplexed how we would bring in Melton or Selvin for short yardage.  He was by far our best short yardage back.  And personally I think he has a couple more 50+ yard TD runs had we let him handle all the second/third/fourth and 1s.  Stacking the box against him is dangerous.  You better not miss.

Right. Breaks through the line and it's not "oh damn they converted" it's "Oh SHIT he's gonna score"

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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Because of that horrible stutter he was able to overcome, he was regarded as special needs and allowed to compete in the Special Olympics as a kid. Can you imagine how pissed you'd be if you had a kid with legit special needs who was special needs fast having to compete against Jamaal fucking Charles? I can only imagine all the muttering in the stands at all those meets.

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cam4mav

cam4mav 771

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44 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Because of that horrible stutter he was able to overcome, he was regarded as special needs and allowed to compete in the Special Olympics as a kid. Can you imagine how pissed you'd be if you had a kid with legit special needs who was special needs fast having to compete against Jamaal fucking Charles? I can only imagine all the muttering in the stands at all those meets.

Damnit Mimsyyyyy

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shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

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Posted
On 10/8/2021 at 4:12 PM, Had Enough said:

Here’s some interesting info on JC. Year 1 was basically a waste while Chiefs won 2 games. Larry Johnson carried the load. His numbers weren’t good. Two years prior Johnson had 1,800 rush yards. LJ had about 3x the Carries and averaged 4.5 to 5.3 for JC.

Year 2. JC had 190 Carries versus LJs 132. YPC of 5.9 versus 2.9. 7 TDs versus 0. That’s a hell of a disparity and could lead one to believe JC should have been getting more chances not only year 2 but probably year 1. Jamaal only started 10 games.

Unfortunately this didn’t extend his career in the end but rather limited his best years.

Year 3. Thomas Jones had more carries at 3.7 per versus 6.4. The carry difference was only 245 to 230. The year prior Jones had 1,400 rushing.

Matt Cassel and young Alex Smith were his QBs. Again, his first 8 seasons he never averaged less than 5.0 yards per rush. The first or second leading ball carrier on his teams in those years never averaged 5 yards. Often they were less than 4 per carry.

He won’t get anywhere near the Hall would be my guess but due to numbers and longevity. He had a unique skill set like few others. The burst and acceleration or rather lack of deceleration out of the cut are in the small minority of 2 or 3 ever. Yes, had he played longer that YPC comes down. But he also had mediocre support and mostly had year 1 pissed away and another year with an early injury.

Pretty impressive.

(Yes, I know this was not requested but it piques curiosity when such discussions come up.)

i turned prematurely grey watching those first few seasons. people who around shaggy back then will remember me and maybe one or two other gluttons for punishment who would brave our hangover every sunday for years just to stream Chiefs games (you think streaming sucks now? imagine it 11-12 years ago) just so that we could pull our hair out about guys like Larry Johnson, Thomas Jones, and Peyton Hillis taking carries away from Jamaal. fuck Todd Haley.

also, it's ridiculous that Andy Reid was the first coach Jamaal ever had who gave him goal line carries. Jamaal was outstanding in goal line situations, and ended up being a touchdown hog once given the chance. Jamaal Charles is a Hall of Fame player, who may or may not have had a HoF career due to so many seasons lost to injury and coaching incompetence. 

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Had Enough

Had Enough 2088

Posted
Posted

Jamaal Charles is a Hall of Fame player, who may or may not have had a HoF career due to so many seasons lost to injury and coaching incompetence. 



This is very true. If I had vote, he’d be in though. I’d hang my hat on YPC and total yards from scrimmage.

I do seem to recall you touting JC as an every down, every situation back. I do have a slight understanding of using Jones and Johnson as they recently came off productive years but damn if there wasn’t a disparity.
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SarkAfterDark

SarkAfterDark 1694

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On 1/5/2022 at 11:30 AM, South Austin said:

Might as well toss out the "what if Jamaal had stayed for his senior year in 2008" punch in the nads.

He came out in a loaded RB draft as well. Likely a first rounder if he waits a year and probably goes to a team/coach that would utilize him properly early in his career. Two factors that I know played a part in him leaving early, Mack saying no to him running track in the spring, and pressure from certain people at home. 

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Braff Zacklin

Braff Zacklin 13655

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That someone in the modern era could average 5.4 yards per carry for a career is mind boggling. Jim Brown averaged 5.2 ypc, but he was a man among boys and outweighed many of the linemen he played with/against.

Only knocks on Jamaal were durability and ball security. He was a decent blocker for his size, formidable running and receiving, and a threat to score from anywhere, at any time.

If Sayers is in the HoF, then so should be Jamaal.

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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

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Terell Davis is kind of a joke. He was later revealed to be a system RB. For a while there Shanahan found a long string of nobodys who all popped it for 1300 yards or so for a season or two only to be replaced by the next man up. Davis just a) was first in line; and B) held it down longer than the rest of them. Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns, and Tatum Bell all had 1000 yd seasons in that era, not to mention Clinton Portis, who was far more talented. His YP dropped off from 5.5 his first two seasons in the league (both with Denver) and never topped 4.3 again, even though he was running for 1300-1500 yards regularly for a few years in DC.

Denver allowed you to match or exceed your college stats as an RB in a way I've never seen. Droughns rode the pine for three years and finally got his chance his fourth year in the league, matched his senior numbers at Oregon, cashed in, had one decent year for Cleveland (a half-yard per carry less than at Denver) and two bad ones, and hung 'em up.

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The Dog

The Dog 44133

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

That someone in the modern era could average 5.4 yards per carry for a career is mind boggling. Jim Brown averaged 5.2 ypc, but he was a man among boys and outweighed many of the linemen he played with/against.

 

That stat is what gets him into Canton. It won't be as fast as it should be but he should get in. He probably has to wait for Peterson to get in first, though. Not sure they'll put two RBs in the same class.

Edit to add - 5.4 yards per carry is the highest in NFL history for a RB with more than 750 carries. 

Edited by The Dog
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Zeus

Zeus 6127

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Posted
14 hours ago, Braff Zacklin said:

That someone in the modern era could average 5.4 yards per carry for a career is mind boggling. Jim Brown averaged 5.2 ypc, but he was a man among boys and outweighed many of the linemen he played with/against.

Only knocks on Jamaal were durability and ball security. He was a decent blocker for his size, formidable running and receiving, and a threat to score from anywhere, at any time.

If Sayers is in the HoF, then so should be Jamaal.

*bottling

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Blotto

Blotto 23570

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12 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Terell Davis is kind of a joke. He was later revealed to be a system RB. For a while there Shanahan found a long string of nobodys who all popped it for 1300 yards or so for a season or two only to be replaced by the next man up. Davis just a) was first in line; and B) held it down longer than the rest of them. Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns, and Tatum Bell all had 1000 yd seasons in that era, not to mention Clinton Portis, who was far more talented. His YP dropped off from 5.5 his first two seasons in the league (both with Denver) and never topped 4.3 again, even though he was running for 1300-1500 yards regularly for a few years in DC.

Denver allowed you to match or exceed your college stats as an RB in a way I've never seen. Droughns rode the pine for three years and finally got his chance his fourth year in the league, matched his senior numbers at Oregon, cashed in, had one decent year for Cleveland (a half-yard per carry less than at Denver) and two bad ones, and hung 'em up.

Alex Gibbs returning to the Broncos as OLine coach in 95 was probably the biggest reason for that. While he didnt invent the zone blocking scheme, he kicked ass in the NFL with it. I think at its peak (98) Denver had the lightest offensive line in the league. After he left Denver, he went to Atlanta where they also had a lot of success. 

https://www.si.com/nfl/talkoffame/nfl/alex-gibbs-one-of-greatest-line-coaches-ever

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Jkwellborn

Jkwellborn 6731

Posted
Posted
Terell Davis is kind of a joke. He was later revealed to be a system RB. For a while there Shanahan found a long string of nobodys who all popped it for 1300 yards or so for a season or two only to be replaced by the next man up. Davis just a) was first in line; and B) held it down longer than the rest of them. Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Reuben Droughns, and Tatum Bell all had 1000 yd seasons in that era, not to mention Clinton Portis, who was far more talented. His YP dropped off from 5.5 his first two seasons in the league (both with Denver) and never topped 4.3 again, even though he was running for 1300-1500 yards regularly for a few years in DC.
Denver allowed you to match or exceed your college stats as an RB in a way I've never seen. Droughns rode the pine for three years and finally got his chance his fourth year in the league, matched his senior numbers at Oregon, cashed in, had one decent year for Cleveland (a half-yard per carry less than at Denver) and two bad ones, and hung 'em up.

Didn’t Davis have a 2,000 yard season?
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Bateshorn

Bateshorn 9936

Posted
Posted (edited)

I mean Davis was a legit running back, but he was a system guy while the league was trying to figure out how to play that zone blocking scheme.  Being a good player on a great team during a period of scheme transition can make good players look like world beaters.

I would argue Charles was playing on weak teams with JAG qbs, and put up stats that are kinda hard to put into perspective. Averaging 5 yards per carry in the modern NFL is mind bottling. 
 

To me, if you want to comp to a different sport, he’s like Pedro Martinez: a player putting up insane numbers during a period where it’s just unfathomable that players could do even 3/4 of that.  Although Martinez eventually got a ring, albeit after he had passed is short but intense prime. 

Edited by Bateshorn
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MaybeACoordinator

MaybeACoordinator 8349

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Jkwellborn said:


Didn’t Davis have a 2,000 yard season?

He did, but you can either believe that all the HS recruiting services, Davis's coaches at UGA, and every team in the NFL that passed him over five times in the draft were wrong about his skill level, or you can believe he happened to catch lightning in a bottle in Denver, where his somewhat limited skill set -- he did get to the hole in a hurry and could make that one cut count -- was ideally matched to a new offensive scheme that caught the league's defenses off guard. 

Put Charles in that situation, and we'd see the 10-yard minimum offense of Hornfans dreams for real. He'd have run for 3000 yards per season in that blocking scheme at that time. I kid, but only a little. 

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Doc Daneeka

Doc Daneeka 6769

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Just wanted to say that Jamaal Charles is a bad ass. I’m not sure even enough Texas fans realize how much of a badass, even as early as the Ohio State game. There are players like VY, Earl, and Ricky where every time they have the ball in their hands, you think they could score. Jamaal is right there, too, probably even more so than Ricky as far as pure “he’s gone” potential.

Also, Kansas City should be thankful for Charles and Priest Holmes. And DJ, for that matter. Three of the best players in that franchise’s history. 

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Doc Daneeka

Doc Daneeka 6769

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Posted
1 minute ago, 'stache said:

Ugh. Still distinctly recall the fourth quarter comeback in Stillwater led by this guy. Fucking beast. 

That was one of the most shellshocked fanbases filing out of a stadium I’d ever seen. The “enemy of my enemy” thing kind of took the edge off of being in Stillwater for me, so I still felt kinda bad walking out of there. Not as bad as if Texas had lost, but kinda bad. 

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LTtxfan

LTtxfan 49337

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Doc Daneeka said:

Just wanted to say that Jamaal Charles is a bad ass. I’m not sure even enough Texas fans realize how much of a badass, even as early as the Ohio State game. There are players like VY, Earl, and Ricky where every time they have the ball in their hands, you think they could score. Jamaal is right there, too, probably even more so than Ricky as far as pure “he’s gone” potential.

Also, Kansas City should be thankful for Charles and Priest Holmes. And DJ, for that matter. Three of the best players in that franchise’s history. 

Yeah crazy that Chiefs didn't have better success during those times.   JC, Priest, and DJ were amazing CFB and NFL players!!! 🤘

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Braff Zacklin

Braff Zacklin 13655

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, LTtxfan said:

Screenshot_2023-09-22-08-03-14_kindlephoto-5645402.thumb.png.3cd8aee088e828716a23baf849bace3c.png

 

https://www.on3.com/teams/texas-longhorns/news/jamaal-charles-one-of-nine-first-year-nominees-to-the-pro-football-hall-of-fames-2024-class/

Hope that news bodes well for Jamaal. The maker of this vid certainly is of the opinion that Mr. Charles deserves enshrinement.

 

Edited by Braff Zacklin
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South Austin

South Austin 52582

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Posted
3 hours ago, HookEm said:

I have Jamaal Charles as #2 on my list of best UT RBs that I have personally watched play.  The list goes:

  1. Ricky Williams
  2. Jamaal Charles
  3. Cedric Benson
  4. Bijan Robinson
  5. Ramonce Taylor
  6. D'Onta Foreman

Earl was before my time as well.  Maybe it's a recency bias, and I absolutely loved watching Benson, but I might have to give Bijan the nod over him.  He moves better in space than I remember Ced, and he's a much better pass catcher out of the backfield. 

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HookEm

HookEm 2467

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Posted

Ced could turn a 2 yard run into a 5 yard run with regularity. Dude gets criminally underrated as time passes. He was an absolute hoss.

Plus he has at least a claim as the best high school player in Texas state history.

If he wasn’t such an ass, he would have been a lot more celebrated.

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 33082

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Posted
52 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Ced could turn a 2 yard run into a 5 yard run with regularity. Dude gets criminally underrated as time passes. He was an absolute hoss.

Plus he has at least a claim as the best high school player in Texas state history.

If he wasn’t such an ass, he would have been a lot more celebrated.

Attitude has nothing to do with it. He was a really good running back. He was not as good as Williams, Charles, or Robinson. 

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sidis

sidis 9832

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Posted

started following horns in 94. off the top of my head:

1. Ricky

2. JC; Freshman & Senior Benson; Bijan

3. a fuckload of distance

4. Sophomore and Junior Benson

5. i guess Foreman maybe.

6. Hodges Mitchell, Selvin Young (underrated, productive guys)

7. R. Taylor; Malcolm Brown; J. Gray

8. Shon Mitchell; Priest; Roschon; Ricky Brown; 2008 Fozzy

9. Other years Fozzy; Cody Johnson; Ogby; Bergeron; 2005 Henry "Shelton;" Tre Watson

10. Tre Newton; Vondrell McGee; Warren; Keontay Ingram; Ivan Williams

11. Daniel Young; Kenny Hayter; Victor Ike; Toneil Carter; Chris Robertson

12. Will Matthews

13. Fuckload of distance.

14. Kyle Porter

 

obviously, if i had followed horns prior to that, Earl, Leaks, Gilbert, and Metcalf would all be 5 and above.

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