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Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran.

Anastasis

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Anastasis

Anastasis 23,480

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23 minutes ago, Lagunamadre said:

Man this makes me fucking ragey. Trump puts two of the biggest warmongers in the world in positions of power in his administration and it takes them about a year to get us to the ledge of a massive war while the president golfs, watches TV and tweets. 

Go snap up some RTN and XOM shares, the neocons are back baby and the war business is booming again! 

I remember when some of the left "leaning" posters on this board were worried about the effects of Trump's blustering on MIC stocks.  LMT doing just fine. 

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Lagunamadre
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My ex-wife is cheating on me!!! 

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You vote for the white versions of those people.

Monster
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Assuming we don't flip flop presidents until everyone riots, and Biden gets the office, how long do you think it'll be before we go to war with Iran? The loathing of Trump is well documented on t

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13,220

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1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

I'm not sure. Can you list some of them?

The IDF. Saudi Arabia.

There are two pretty obvious ones. We don't even have to go with covert, "regime-change" focused groups.

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Who is clamoring for war with Iran?

Everyone painting Iran as an aggressor or bad actor. Everyone who is not vocally and actively speaking out not only against war in Iran but who is non-critical of the obvious effort from the government and mass media to make this war happen.

It is the exact same centrist shrugging that we saw in the lead-up to Iraq.

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Fozzz

Fozzz 152

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The US has been piling sanction upon sanction and for no reason other than to destabilize and immiserate the Iranians.  Not because of Hezbollah or the Houthis or any of that shit - they simply want to make Iran suffer as much as possible.  The US wants to destroy Iran but they don't have the luxury to simply invade so instead they are trying to destroy them economically.  Iran has finally reached a breaking point.  

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NowThis

NowThis 931

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6 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

The US has been piling sanction upon sanction and for no reason other than to destabilize and immiserate the Iranians.  Not because of Hezbollah or the Houthis or any of that shit - they simply want to make Iran suffer as much as possible.  The US wants to destroy Iran but they don't have the luxury to simply invade so instead they are trying to destroy them economically.  Iran has finally reached a breaking point.  

sanctions are a cause of war; Imagine if Russia blockaded Britain, causing immense suffering of the ordinary people, but not to the Queen bitch or PM. The elite are unaffected by sanction you know, only the grunts lose their life savings and spiral into misery.  So, in all objectivity, the Iranians are right to fire upon US military assets.  

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retread

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5 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

so if you live in iran, and you're not sure if you're going to get attacked, do you just sit on your phone refreshing trump's twitter feed?

is this where we are right now as a society?

The 'good' news is that he'll probably tweet out the location before the actual strike.

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18,940

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1 hour ago, bad_teammate said:

The IDF. Saudi Arabia.

There are two pretty obvious ones. We don't even have to go with covert, "regime-change" focused groups.

Everyone painting Iran as an aggressor or bad actor. Everyone who is not vocally and actively speaking out not only against war in Iran but who is non-critical of the obvious effort from the government and mass media to make this war happen.

It is the exact same centrist shrugging that we saw in the lead-up to Iraq.

You should have just thrown in the United States military for good measure.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29,949

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25 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

In one report on NPR, they referred to the drone as a military aircraft without mentioning it was unmanned. Most of the time they called it a drone, but that one time made me feel a little sick. That's inciting.

If FOX and the GOPS start banging the drum, then I'll count it as further evidence that their criminal enterprise is worse than I imagine and they will do anything to avoid being discovered

If Iran acts again, we'll be pretty darn close to level-headed anti-Iran war citizens being accused of wanting to "cut and run" instead of being manly men who want to vicariously get into the shit.

Read the opening to Grant's autobiography. I was reading it when we were gearing up for the invasion of Iraq. He so accurately writes about the unstoppable momentum of a pro-war faction. He writes about the Mexican War.

We'll lose this war the same way we lost the Iraq invasion and Viet Nam. A prominent former soldier and war historian had a chance to talk to a North Vietnamese general years after the war. The American, who tells the story himself, said to the general, "You never defeated an American army in the field."

The general replied, "That's absolutely true. It's also irrelevant."

What did we win in Iraq? What could we have won in Viet Nam? What's the big prize for smashing Iran's regular armed forces? Death, debt, and scars for everybody in the theater of war.

Idiot World is about to get bloody. Again.

If Bolton gets us into this war (I know Trump is ultimately responsible), I think I might be able to skin him alive myself, and I'm not a violent man. Actually, let's just give him the worst death anybody in the conflict experiences. Some kid burning alive or maybe a farmer trying to keep his intestines in his body cavity.

You get older, you really start hating being forced to watch the same insane movie over and over.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23,367

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9 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

In one report on NPR, they referred to the drone as a military aircraft without mentioning it was unmanned. Most of the time they called it a drone, but that one time made me feel a little sick. That's inciting.

If FOX and the GOPS start banging the drum, then I'll count it as further evidence that their criminal enterprise is worse than I imagine and they will do anything to avoid being discovered

If Iran acts again, we'll be pretty darn close to level-headed anti-Iran war citizens being accused of wanting to "cut and run" instead of being manly men who want to vicariously get into the shit.

Read the opening to Grant's autobiography. I was reading it when we were gearing up for the invasion of Iraq. He so accurately writes about the unstoppable momentum of a pro-war faction. He writes about the Mexican War.

We'll lose this war the same way we lost the Iraq invasion and Viet Nam. A prominent former soldier and war historian had a chance to talk to a North Vietnamese general years after the war. The American, who tells the story himself, said to the general, "You never defeated an American army in the field."

The general replied, "That's absolutely true. It's also irrelevant."

What did we win in Iraq? What could we have won in Viet Nam? What's the big prize for smashing Iran's regular armed forces? Death, debt, and scars for everybody in the theater of war.

Idiot World is about to get bloody. Again.

If Bolton gets us into this war (I know Trump is ultimately responsible), I think I might be able to skin him alive myself, and I'm not a violent man. Actually, let's just give him the worst death anybody in the conflict experiences. Some kid burning alive or maybe a farmer trying to keep his intestines in his body cavity.

You get older, you really start hating being forced to watch the same insane movie over and over.

Before we ever get in a war, the end game needs to be clearly defined and obtainable.  That’s the conversation everyone should be having with this Iran shit. 

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4,580

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2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Before we ever get in a war, the end game needs to be clearly defined and obtainable.  That’s the conversation everyone should be having with this Iran shit. 

No, the conversation should be about not getting into a war. 

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Mojo Hand

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11 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Which is the ONLY logical conclusion when you start talking about an end game in Iran. 

The problem with that is that the march to war isn't about logical conclusions.   For example, at the time, there was an end game conversation in Iraq.   It was that we will be welcomed and cheered by the people as liberators.   That was enough.  It won't be hard to come up with some bullshit about Iran either. 

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Onboard 2.0

Onboard 2.0 9,083

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3 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

The problem with that is that the march to war isn't about logical conclusions.   For example, at the time, there was an end game conversation in Iraq.   It was that we will be welcomed and cheered by the people as liberators.   That was enough.  It won't be hard to come up with some bullshit about Iran either. 

The irony is the young, and middle class would welcome a change and more open, western type society.  Not a reason to go to war though, by any stretch of the imagination.

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32,395

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The President speaks, ladies and gentlemen.  It was all just a mistake.

https://www.axios.com/trump-iran-drone-attack-734955a7-12db-44ad-add1-d6ce3f6360b9.html

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President Trump said in in a pool spray with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau Thursday that he does not believe Iran intentionally shot down an unmanned U.S. drone flying in international airspace over the Strait of Hormuz, claiming it was probably "a mistake made by somebody who shouldn’t have been doing what they did."

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23,367

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4 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

The problem with that is that the march to war isn't about logical conclusions.   For example, at the time, there was an end game conversation in Iraq.   It was that we will be welcomed and cheered by the people as liberators.   That was enough.  It won't be hard to come up with some bullshit about Iran either. 

Our end game in Iraq was nation building and bringing democracy to the Iraqi people.  That was an insanely ambitious goal and proved to be an awful decision.   It would be hard to sell that again.  

My underlying point was the conversation needs to be about war and under what conditions should we go to war. 

I’m of the opinion war is sometimes necessary but for defensive reasons.  There would be nothing defensive about going to war with Iran. 

 

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Hugo Stiglitz

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1 minute ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

The President speaks, ladies and gentlemen.  It was all just a mistake.

https://www.axios.com/trump-iran-drone-attack-734955a7-12db-44ad-add1-d6ce3f6360b9.html

 

Trump is being handed the best political cover he could ask for and he’s blowing it.  I’m glad he’s blowing it because fuck a war with Iran but it’s interesting to watch Trump dismiss an opportunity to control the media narrative away from his scandals. 

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32,395

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Just now, Irwin F Fletcher said:

Either Trump understands that battling Iran is a lose-lose for him or the drone was actually over Iranian air space and Trump can't use this incident as an attempt to flex his military muscle.

Or, Putin told him to stand down.

https://thehill.com/policy/international/449546-putin-warns-war-between-us-and-iran-would-be-catastrophe

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Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday warned that war between the U.S. and Iran would be a “catastrophe,” as tensions between the two countries heighten following the downing of a U.S. military drone.

“It would be a catastrophe, for the region at the very minimum, because it will lead to an increase of violence, and potential increase in refugees from the region,” Putin said during an annual “direct line” with the Russian public. “But also, for those who would attempt it, it could have possibly sad consequences.”

Sad.  Lulz.

 

 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29,194

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4 minutes ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:

Either Trump understands that battling Iran is a lose-lose for him or the drone was actually over Iranian air space and Trump can't use this incident as an attempt to flex his military muscle.

little from column a, little from column b.

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Francisco 2.0

Francisco 2.0 32,395

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1 minute ago, housious said:

Are you disappointed that he's not using it to fuel the war machine? Because it seems like you are. 

Nah.  Just find it amusing as hell.  He wants to be tough, talk tough.  Take no prisoners.  And now he calls it a mistake made by an Iranian private or somesuch.

Those words coming from a diplomatic President would have meaning.  Coming from Trump, well, it just sounds like he has cold feet now.

 

 

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