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Posted
2 hours ago, Vegas64 said:

 

So then you guys see the dilemma.

Talks, sanctions, plans (e.g. The Obama and to a lesser extent the Biden way) doesn't work because Iran is disingenous.

Threats and Sabre-Rattling (e.g. The Trump way) doesn't work, it incentives and speeds up development (which is already sped up over years past due to advancements)

Nothing works, so we will fight over them or with them.

Is there a seperate ledge for nuclear war / WWIII or is it shared with the Fall of the American Republic ledge?

You say Iran is disingenuous, and I'd agree with you.

But I'd argue everyone is disingenuous. The United States certainly is on all sorts of things. Sometimes purposefully, and sometimes by making promises they end up not having the political will to fulfill. 

How important is having possession of nuclear weapons for state sovereignty? What are the consequences to a ruling regime compared to the benefits? Why would we ever expect a nation state that has embarked on possessing nuclear weapons to genuinely give up that pursuit?

If one doesn't want nuclear proliferation to occur then the only way to slow it down is to make the consequence for pursuing it so painful that it's unthinkable to do so. Since what I mean by that is abhorrent, we're left with a world where more people will have access to nuclear weapons. It would also be helpful if we'd do a better job of guaranteeing the sovereignty of countries that do give up possession of nuclear weapons. 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

It would also be helpful if we'd do a better job of guaranteeing the sovereignty of countries that do give up possession of nuclear weapons. 

Which was very successfully done by the US with it's political stability on protecting foreign allies for decades. We managed to be a part of convincing Ukraine to cease it's nuclear weapons pursuit, and look what that got them. 

Donald Trump and Republicans turning their backs on allies signals the US is no longer reliable as an ally, and it has single handedly erased decades of US diplomacy by Republican and Democrat presidents alike. It's now a global arms race to ensure you're a country with a dead man's switch to keep other countries like the US, China,  and Russia from invading you. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

You got a source for this?

From Semafor (below) that confirms that when unofficial negotiations between Biden’s team and Iran collapsed, U.S. officials cited Iran’s refusal to cooperate on UN nuclear inspections. Specifically, Iran resisted addressing uranium traces found at undeclared sites and blocked International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors. This lack of transparency led Western nations to pass a censure resolution against Iran at the IAEA.

https://www.semafor.com/article/06/05/2024/iran-west-tensions-nuclear-transparency-uranium-inspections

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Posted
45 minutes ago, SL Xpress said:

How important is having possession of nuclear weapons for state sovereignty? ... Why would we ever expect a nation state that has embarked on possessing nuclear weapons to genuinely give up that pursuit?

See Ukraine....

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Posted
2 hours ago, SL Xpress said:

You say Iran is disingenuous, and I'd agree with you.

But I'd argue everyone is disingenuous. The United States certainly is on all sorts of things. Sometimes purposefully, and sometimes by making promises they end up not having the political will to fulfill. 

How important is having possession of nuclear weapons for state sovereignty? What are the consequences to a ruling regime compared to the benefits? Why would we ever expect a nation state that has embarked on possessing nuclear weapons to genuinely give up that pursuit?

If one doesn't want nuclear proliferation to occur then the only way to slow it down is to make the consequence for pursuing it so painful that it's unthinkable to do so. Since what I mean by that is abhorrent, we're left with a world where more people will have access to nuclear weapons. It would also be helpful if we'd do a better job of guaranteeing the sovereignty of countries that do give up possession of nuclear weapons. 

I agree with you 100%.

In general we are seeing (in my view) the natural end result of when human civilization and societies come together for a tenuously held and sued-by-the-threat-of-force peace golden era.

History is littered with the ebbs and flows of such periods and it's generally great for mankind when we can prolong it, due to all the advancements and qualities we can focus on versus when societal growth grinds to a halt for the tactical-- armament, re-armament, having babies to repopulate the young men slaughtered in wars, replacing slain kings/leaders, fighting against internal infighting that undermines military and political strength, etc.

We seem to be plummeting towards the end of a great era. I'm so on the ledge you can call me Heath Ledger

Posted
3 hours ago, wildcat09 said:

You got a source for this?

i'm going to laugh so hard when he says it is from an email newsletter he gets and still claims to not be animaltobacco.

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Posted
1 hour ago, Hermanator said:

Which was very successfully done by the US with it's political stability on protecting foreign allies for decades. We managed to be a part of convincing Ukraine to cease it's nuclear weapons pursuit, and look what that got them. 

Donald Trump and Republicans turning their backs on allies signals the US is no longer reliable as an ally, and it has single handedly erased decades of US diplomacy by Republican and Democrat presidents alike. It's now a global arms race to ensure you're a country with a dead man's switch to keep other countries like the US, China,  and Russia from invading you. 

It wasn't very successfully done. After the US, the former Soviet Union, UK, France, China, India, Pakistan, North Korea, Israel and South Africa developed nuclear weapons. South Africa, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine gave them up after possessing them. 

I'm saying countries have a lot of incentives to develop a nuclear weapon, and the disincentives are wholly inadequate. But adequate discincentives are likely horrifying. 

Posted
15 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

I agree with you 100%.

In general we are seeing (in my view) the natural end result of when human civilization and societies come together for a tenuously held and sued-by-the-threat-of-force peace golden era.

History is littered with the ebbs and flows of such periods and it's generally great for mankind when we can prolong it, due to all the advancements and qualities we can focus on versus when societal growth grinds to a halt for the tactical-- armament, re-armament, having babies to repopulate the young men slaughtered in wars, replacing slain kings/leaders, fighting against internal infighting that undermines military and political strength, etc.

We seem to be plummeting towards the end of a great era. I'm so on the ledge you can call me Heath Ledger

While I certainly agree with you, I'm also reminded of all the times throughout human history when contemporaries felt like they were living in the end times, and it turned out not to be that way. Of course, sometimes it really was, at least from their perspective. 

It's inherently impossible to have genuine historical perspective on the times you're currently living in. Nonetheless, we can all see trends, and the trends do not feel very good right now. I think my biggest fear is we seem to be collectively leaning into the basest aspects of our humanity - especially in the United States - and I'm not sure what arrests that other than really negative outcomes. On a selfish level, I don't particularly want to live through those really negative outcomes. 

I hope for a George Washington/Thomas Jefferson/Abraham Lincoln/Teddy Roosevelt/FDR/Reagan type. I voted Republican all my life (for presidential elections) until 2016. Given where the party has gone, I don't see how someone like that wins the Republican nomination in the future, much less a general election. 

Honestly, at the foundational level my biggest fear is that in the near future our votes aren't going to matter any more. 

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Posted
41 minutes ago, sidis said:

i'm going to laugh so hard when he says it is from an email newsletter he gets and still claims to not be animaltobacco.

Quote

 

From Semafor (below) that confirms that when unofficial negotiations between Biden’s team and Iran collapsed, U.S. officials cited Iran’s refusal to cooperate on UN nuclear inspections. Specifically, Iran resisted addressing uranium traces found at undeclared sites and blocked International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors. This lack of transparency led Western nations to pass a censure resolution against Iran at the IAEA.

https://www.semafor.com/article/06/05/2024/iran-west-tensions-nuclear-transparency-uranium-inspections

 

 

Get a life, nerd.

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Posted
4 hours ago, Hermanator said:

Which was very successfully done by the US with it's political stability on protecting foreign allies for decades. We managed to be a part of convincing Ukraine to cease it's nuclear weapons pursuit, and look what that got them. 

Donald Trump and Republicans turning their backs on allies signals the US is no longer reliable as an ally, and it has single handedly erased decades of US diplomacy by Republican and Democrat presidents alike. It's now a global arms race to ensure you're a country with a dead man's switch to keep other countries like the US, China,  and Russia from invading you. 

 

4 hours ago, Tonesky said:

See Ukraine....

We all got it guys

Posted
24 minutes ago, Irwin F Fletcher said:

Seems like the Air Force is practicing bombing runs on the roads in and around Shreveport/Bossier City. 

20250401_164147~2.jpg

Bombing Louisiana?  If Senator Kennedy is back in state ...

mmm-ill-allow-it.gif

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Posted
Seems like the Air Force is practicing bombing runs on the roads in and around Shreveport/Bossier City. 
20250401_1641472.thumb.jpg.53de4555b7c8acadacd333c1b36b79a0.jpg

Tell me you don’t know where the B-52s are stationed without telling me you don’t know where the B-52s are stationed.

I’m old enough to remember seeing this same sight- a BUFF on final in its unique nose down attitude- all the time in Fort Worth.
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Posted
3 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:


Tell me you don’t know where the B-52s are stationed without telling me you don’t know where the B-52s are stationed.

The Love Shack? 

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Posted

With this administration, we're probably going to see orders to make a bombing run sent by WhatsApp, with a fat-fingered typo, and just like that....we'll bomb this place:

iraan_texas.jpg

...and Rankin will take its rightful place as the big dog of one of the most desolates stretches of W. Texas.

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