Chernobyl HBO

[Nueces River Rat 5533]

7 minutes ago, bolverk said:

True. The family I stayed with still had a mid-80s Trabant. Good lord what a piece of shit.

I should also point out that Wust was about 5 miles from a Soviet-designed nuclear power plant that had been under construction but never completed because of the reuinification, which we were grateful for because of having Chernobyl still fairly fresh on our minds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stendal_Nuclear_Power_Plant

If you ever saw a YUGO in the late 80's,  it was about as close to a commie made POS as we got in this country at time other than when Gorbie vistied Reagan and toured the US and brought his own vehicle.  

GM, Chrysler,  and Ford made some crap that tied for second.    

Edited May 29, 2019 by Nueces River Rat

[bolverk 29474]

2 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

If you ever saw a YUGO in the late 80's,  it was about as close to a commie made POS as we got in this country.

GM, Chrysler,  and Ford made some crap that tied for second.    

Oh, I remember. The Yugo, however, was like a rally car doing the Dakar in comparison to that piece of shit.

[Nueces River Rat 5533]

Question about episode three.   Did the Miners really strip their clothes off and work in the nude in the real event?    What's funny in episode four, they made the soldiers who were put in charge of killing abandoned pets wear a piece of metal around their nuts as if that was going to help prevent radiation from making them sterile or freak out their sperm.   What about the poor miners?   Did the ones who managed to survive lose their manhood?  

Edited May 29, 2019 by Nueces River Rat

[RPM 26267]

1 minute ago, Nueces River Rat said:

What's funny in episode four, they made the soldiers who were put in charge of killing abandoned pets wear a piece of metal around their nuts as if that was going to help prevent radiation from making them sterile or freak out their sperm.

They didn't make them wear it. It was a homemade thing the older guys came up with.

[Nueces River Rat 5533]

1 minute ago, RPM said:

They didn't make them wear it. It was a homemade thing the older guys came up with.

Too much Vodka....   I guess if I had to live in that hell hole during the Cold War  ,  I would have  drunk  Vodka hourly.   

[AUS-97HORN 11725]

47 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Question about episode three.   Did the Miners really strip their clothes off and work in the nude in the real event?    What's funny in episode four, they made the soldiers who were put in charge of killing abandoned pets wear a piece of metal around their nuts as if that was going to help prevent radiation from making them sterile or freak out their sperm.   What about the poor miners?   Did the ones who managed to survive lose their manhood?  

you have to remember that radiation was even more foreign to a soviet citizen than an american one. The soviets sure as hell didnt teach the public about how radiation was absorbed, and all most people knew was 3rd hand information that too much radiation made you sterile and that lead stopped the radiation.

these guys just did the best they could think of (based on what they knew)  to stop their jewels from being fried

[mulletpelini 5210]

On 5/26/2019 at 4:03 PM, wutang75 said:

My family has had CC on for years (I actually thought most people did this). I will say it takes away from the story because you get to the point you are just staring at the bottom of the screen. 

 

On 5/27/2019 at 9:47 PM, bolverk said:

3) The contrast between the beat up Soviet truck with the heavily duct-taped driverside door briefly passing in front of the newfangled German robot was a really incredible cinematographic shot.

Wanna know a good way to miss this^?  Have the stupid captions on.  WTF

3 hours ago, Turkleton said:

Season, duh!!

Next season, Rise of Scherbina

Emily Watson, while not all that attractive, is racked.

[retread 2951]

Siap. Thread from a Russian writer  

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1133199099640074247.html

That link has the pictures that go along with his comments/story.

Quote

Slava Malamud @SlavaMalamud

As promised, I will recap Episode 4 of #ChernobylHBO in the thread below. Recaps of episodes 1-3 are in the pinned thread on my feed. This one was... special. Until this morning, I didn't know it would be. Allow me to proceed in the the order I choose and see where it takes me.
Today was my step-father's 71st birthday. I was visiting him in Rochester, NY. We aren't what you'd call extremely close, but we aren't on bad terms, either. It's just... complicated. Anyway, he watches a lot of crappy Russian TV so I recommended he tries Chernobyl. He said no...
"No, I won't", he said. "Don't want to."
"Why not? It's very well made and you can get the dubbed Russian version online..."
"Because I was there, that's why. And I don't need this again."
Turns out, my step-father, then Captain Veytsman, was sent to the Exclusion Zone in 1986...

He was a part of the Likvidatsiya Posledstviy (the "elimination of consequences", as it was called in that coldblooded Soviet jargon of the time). He was stationed in Tiraspol, Moldavian SSR, an artillery commander, when he was ordered to assemble all chemical units and move out.
He was in charge of an area in the zone which included several condemned villages. They were to inspect vehicles and personnel, guard the roads, perform animal control and catch interlopers. He said looters became a big problem after a while. People raided abandoned buildings...
"They'd check us for radiation every day. They always put us down for 25 roentgen. 25 was the highest allowable level, you see. So they just entered 25 on the paperwork. Who knows how much we got."
"Jesus, why didn't you ever tell me?"
"You didn't ask"

Soviet men...
I wrote about this to @clmazin and he said it's just as well the now-retired Lieutenant Colonel of the Soviet Army Vladimir Veytsman won't be watching tonight's episode. It would hit way too close to home. It certainly would. It did for me, and I sure as hell wasn't there.

So, I will do the animal control soldiers scenes first. And - hey, here it is! The red and green flag to the left of Pavel. That's Moldavian SSR. That tent may have been occupied by one of my step-father's boys... So, yes, I am engrossed in the world of a TV drama, obviously.

Bacho is a Georgian name. The actor, who is Lebanese, actually looks like a stereotypical Georgian man: curly hair, big nose, a somewhat sultry look. But, even more impressively, he somehow SOUNDS Georgian. It's impossible to relay the colorful Georgian accent in English, but...

...he pulls it off. His character traits are stereotypically Georgian: he is passionate, he has quirky rules he is dead serious about, he presents a happy front, he drinks like a horse. The show went to the lengths of making one character look and act as a typical ethnic minority

So, no, having the actors speak British English doesn't ruin it for me. In fact, it even enhances the experience. Seeing and hearing the ethnic traits of the Northern Caucasus through that accent was surreal. Also, look at that babushka! You gonna tell me she is not Ukrainian?

The monologue she delivers sets the tone for the episode, which is stubbornness and resilience in the face of unimaginable pain. Now, would a Ukrainian village woman in 1986 speak of Stalin like this? I don't know. My own grandma did speak of the famine, but she never used...

... the term Holodomor nor would she attribute it to Stalin specifically. Still, in many areas of Ukraine people probably did just that. Many Ukrainians certainly never forgot or forgave. And, besides, that monologue, and those pictures, the Soviet history redux, are just so good
Even more importantly, the stubbornness and the unyielding strength (the traits I saw in my own grandma, who died at 98 after living a life very similar to this character's) are extremely true to life. I love it how we never actually see her get up and leave.

This goes back to the ridiculous task of excavating "the Russian soul" which this show undertakes & somehow succeeds in. The miners in Episode 3 showed that Russians could be disdainful and defiant of authority (while remaining patriotic and selfless). The babushka does the same.
So, let's talk a bit more about all of them speaking English. It doesn't bother me, but I have grown up on Soviet films about WWII where all German characters spoke perfect Russian and the viewers were simply expected to use their damn imaginations.

To me, the only things to be wary of is using the turns of phrase (like rhymes or puns) that would not be possible to pull off in Russian. The show sidesteps those mines. In fact, it goes the other way. Like the "egg basket" here. "Eggs", natch, is what Russians call testicles

On the other hand, this phrase was probably used to elicit a knowing smile from the US audience. I can't quite imagine the loyal party man Shcherbina saying this, given how proud the Soviets were of putting he first man in space, which they considered the end of the space race

Shcerbina's railing against the stupidity of the party bigwigs who put propaganda tropes ahead of the life-saving work may or may not have happened, but the underlying point is true. Propaganda and "Honor of the Motherland" has been Russia's No. 1 priority from Potemkin's time

I utterly believe the venom in Shcherbina's voice when he is forced to confront German technological superiority. This was a huge thorn in the side of many Russians ("Who won the fucking war?!"). And the reluctance to ask the West for anything is absolutely true.

But the whole point here, I believe, is once again Russia's tremendous strength, resilience and what the Brits call bloody-mindedness. Russia is a very Asiatic culture in many ways. It values the collective way more than mere human lives. This sounds brutal, and it is...

But it also allows it to survive major cataclysms and battle against impossible foes in the ways that other, happier cultures never would. Of course they'd throw "biorobots" (expendable human bodies) with goddamn shovels at the twenty Hiroshimas lying on that roof!

Americans, when involved in another foreign conflict, often talk about the brave men and women in uniform and how putting them in harm's way is a tough decision that can't be taken lightly. Russians don't think like that. If you're in uniform, being in harm's way is why you exist

Russia, as it should be abundantly clear, isn't a very happy culture at all. But it also defeated Hitler, in many ways thanks to being the way it is. It's the absolutely last choice to deliver the mankind any kind of happiness. But, sometimes, it's the only one strong enough...

A couple of notes on the small details that I tried my best to pick up. First of all, I've been intrigued at what they've all been smoking on this show. Turns out, Sochinskiye is surprisingly popular, though it wasn't the most common Soviet brand.

None of that mamby-pamby stuff for the grizzled vet Bacho, though. He smokes filterless Meteor, which has probably created an equivalent of half a Hiroshima in his lungs. Luckily, Georgian men have notoriously long life expectancy.

The vodka scenes aren't a cheap Russian stereotype. The "liquidators" were positively showered in drink. It was thought to somehow help against radiation. Russians are sometimes incredibly devoted to hack remedies. See also the milk scene in Episode 2.

And I will raise a 200mg glass to this absolutely perfect Soviet librarian. Yes, some Russian women could purse their lips for the English national team of lip-pursing.

Not only does this actual Soviet car have actual Soviet license plates, it's the plate with the correct two-letter code (KX) for the Kiev Oblast, where Pripyat is located. This is the kind of absolutely fanatical attention to detail that makes #Chernobyl a genre-redefining show

And finally... That song. "Black Raven".
Black raven, black raven,
Why do you circle over me?
You won't have your prey,
Black raven, I'm not yours!

It's a folk song often sang by Russian soldiers. And it's, of course, about resiliency, stubbornness, refusal to die.

The scene has the singer repeat this stanza over and over. The black raven is being consistently denied. The actual song ends with the stubborn soldier's succumbing to the inevitable. "I see my death is near. Black raven, I am all yours."
Russia has no happy endings.
Good night.

 

[crimsonlonghorn 2306]

I got to spend a couple of weeks in Russia back in 1992 right after the collapse of the Soviet Union. They've nailed every bit of it in this show, right down to the shabby tile and the greasy sausages for lunch and drinking vodka out of a tin cup. Also, the outhouses.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

11 hours ago, retread said:

Siap. Thread from a Russian writer  

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1133199099640074247.html

That link has the pictures that go along with his comments/story.

 

How crazy that the show actually has a tent with a flag matching his step-father's unit.  They really did their homework. 

[PilotsError 2286]

When they were going building to building, I thought they would come across the old lady's corpse.  With a bullet in her head.

[Dutchrudder 11126]

This show is fantastic, can't wait to watch ep 4 tonight!  

[Incredulity 11568]

On 5/26/2019 at 6:15 PM, troph said:

I’m talking more about the hues of the entire show not the buildings and decor or fashion and it’s a common way western film depicts Eastern Europe and Russian in the Soviet era, I could be wrong but life isn’t as drab as the film makes it seem. I could be imagining it though I’m going to pay closer attention.

 

Anecdote:  

 

I once hooked up with a woman in Frankfurt Germany in the early 2000's.  She grew up in East Germany.  

Her comment about the change after the fall of the wall.  "Color came to the East".

[Nueces River Rat 5533]

10 hours ago, crimsonlonghorn said:

I got to spend a couple of weeks in Russia back in 1992 right after the collapse of the Soviet Union. They've nailed every bit of it in this show, right down to the shabby tile and the greasy sausages for lunch and drinking vodka out of a tin cup. Also, the outhouses.

They  could have filmed it in College Station  I take it.   Except I don't know what aggys drink out of a tin cup.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Nueces River Rat

[RPM 26267]

51 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Except I don't know what aggys drink out of a tin cup.

You don't want to know.

[Deej 76620]

1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

They  could have filmed it in College Station  I take it.   Except I don't know what aggys drink out of a tin cup.

Precum. 

[Loco 3752]

[Guest Lobo]

The show is also, among so many other narrative devices, doing a very elegant job (given the nuance) of illuminating so many (not all, but probably most) of the characters desire for self-preservation juxtaposed against their baked-in desire to serve the state.  It transcends spirituality because, at least for them, service to the state over a faith/church/religion is more plausible because at least you can see/hear the State.  

[bolverk 29474]

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Lobo said:

The show is also, among so many other narrative devices, doing a very elegant job (given the nuance) of illuminating so many (not all, but probably most) of the characters desire for self-preservation juxtaposed against their baked-in desire to serve the state.  It transcends spirituality because, at least for them, service to the state over a faith/church/religion is more plausible because at least you can see/hear the State.  

I like this turn of phrase. The thing to keep in mind though is that from the perspective of these characters in that period service to the state was an absolute necessity for self-preservation. The dangers presented by radiation poisoning were an esoteric dilemma in comparison to the very real and known dangers of the bullet.

[Loco 3752]

6 hours ago, bolverk said:

I like this turn of phrase. The thing to keep in mind though is that from the perspective of these characters in that period service to the state was an absolute necessity for self-preservation. The dangers presented by radiation poisoning were an esoteric dilemma in comparison to the very real and known dangers of the bullet.

Yeah, but I think your discounting a few things..

1) The guys at the plant knew that if their worst fears were true, they were already dead men walking...  I think most folks knowing that would say fuck it, I'm going down swinging and fuck this reactor in particular

2) Group think is a real thing... If you're raised to consider yourself a piece of a collective, then self sacrifice is not really such a big deal...  my parents, grandparents, etc... sacrificed for me, I will do the same for the greater good.  The Japanese/Hezbolah/Isis/(insert your religious extremist groups here) all routinely got young men/women/kids to sacrifice themselves for a "better future"  I honestly think the sales pitch would be easier if you were sacrificing to save folks rather than explode them... but hey I'm not a true believer

 

Of course there was the old, you can go easy or you can go hard choice...  but I don't think that was the only factor.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

On 5/10/2019 at 3:19 PM, Schulz2.0 said:

I wouldn’t say the RBMK improvements were minor. They removed the graphite tips from the bottom of the control rods. They increased the speed of the control rods. Chernobyl’s reactor #4 was scrammed seconds into the power transient that caused the issue. The control rods were so slow (a full scram would have taken 7-8 seconds due to the height they had withdrawn the control rods) that it didn’t stop it. Safety systems (like the emergency core cooling system testing they were doing) were corrected or implemented. Another big issue was general training and understanding of the plant systems and how they effect the plant/reactor. A big overhaul in training programs was implemented after this.

No more vodka breaks.... before 3:00 in the afternoon ?

[Nueces River Rat 5533]

3 hours ago, Loco said:

Yeah, but I think your discounting a few things..

1) The guys at the plant knew that if their worst fears were true, they were already dead men walking...  I think most folks knowing that would say fuck it, I'm going down swinging and fuck this reactor in particular

2) Group think is a real thing... If you're raised to consider yourself a piece of a collective, then self sacrifice is not really such a big deal...  my parents, grandparents, etc... sacrificed for me, I will do the same for the greater good.  The Japanese/Hezbolah/Isis/(insert your religious extremist groups here) all routinely got young men/women/kids to sacrifice themselves for a "better future"  I honestly think the sales pitch would be easier if you were sacrificing to save folks rather than explode them... but hey I'm not a true believer

 

Of course there was the old, you can go easy or you can go hard choice...  but I don't think that was the only factor.

The foundation for the communist system is the collective instead of the individual and its documented throughout the history of the wicked system of governance, those who try to be individuals end up dead pretty soon after they express themselves.  Or in a prison camp which resembles hell on earth to where eventually they will die.  

It will be interesting in episode five to see what happens to the scientist.   Episode one had him recording his notes on  tapes and the KGB following him years later.    I'd really like to know if the KGB big dog who  was put in charge of the operation after the first group of comrades were "taken"  off the job  (yea they ended up in Siberia or six feet under real quick) knew what his superiors were trying to do was BS and if he eventually cracked as well. 

The thing about the whole Soviet Union during that time is much of what was being put out at the time by the Soviets was a facade.  I mean they were the first to launch a manmade object into space, but never ever could get the infrastructure in place to get a man to the moon.   While they had nukes and could blow up the world if they wanted to,  a lot of their conventional military infrastructure was not all that it was made out to be like we saw in the May Day and other Communist holiday celebrations in Red Square.  

[Fozzz 152]

lmao

[Deej 76620]

3 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

It will be interesting in episode five to see what happens to the scientist.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 minutes ago, Deej said:

Exactly.  He was just "re assigned".

[Bama Chick 28596]

Ugh, I told y’all Ludmilla’s story had a horrible end.

It’s super gut wrenching to read it in her own words but I thought the show did a good job of telling it.

She’s still alive and has had some health issues but nothing like most of the other people who were in the thick of it at Hospital Number Six.

Because her fetus literally took and absorbed all the radiation. Just nightmarish.

And the stories of the animal liquidators are SO much more graphic and horrific than what the show presented.

On the podcast, the writer says they actually filmed one of the more awful scenes but took it out of the show because he said it felt like it was abuse of the viewers.

It involves shot but not dead dogs. And the liquidators ran out of bullets before they could put them out of their misery. The end result being dogs buried alive in wet concrete.

Since this is a miniseries, I have a feeling it’s going to clean house come awards season since it won’t have to compete against the big prestige dramas.

[Chewbacca 7730]

On 5/28/2019 at 9:35 PM, retread said:

Siap. Thread from a Russian writer  

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1133199099640074247.html

That link has the pictures that go along with his comments/story.

 

Holy shit.  I can't believe how good this show is.  Shame it's only a 5 parter.

[Eskimohorn 5623]

Holy shit.  I can't believe how good this show is.  Shame it's only a 5 parter.

I disagree. Think its about right. No need for fluff.

[Sbbruin 21785]

On 5/28/2019 at 6:00 PM, Nueces River Rat said:

If you ever saw a YUGO in the late 80's,  it was about as close to a commie made POS as we got in this country at time other than when Gorbie vistied Reagan and toured the US and brought his own vehicle.  

GM, Chrysler,  and Ford made some crap that tied for second.    

I went to school with the first guy in this commercial.  The Yugo was truly the greatest piece of crap to ever grace American roadways.

 

[Guest Lobo]

Sorry some of you poors who could only afford the base GV model, but some of us were able to afford the GVL or GVX and enjoyed living Socialist life to the fullest. 

Watching the dynamic change between the Boris and Valery characters has been a very subtle and brilliant undertone of the series.  Boris still loves his authority and station, but has come to realize the futility of serving a state apparatus that constantly trips over its own tangled web of lies and incompetence.  Valery went from cock-eyed optimistic scientist, who while he hates capitalism and has himself lied to serve the state in the past, to realizing that he can access resources he never thought possible to "fit his hunches."  I dunno, hard to describe, just really enjoy watching them pass each other in the night like two lost ships.  

[PilotsError 2286]

If you were surfing other tabs during the first five minutes of episode one, you may want to go back and watch.  Just a tip.

[Chewbacca 7730]

33 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

 

I disagree. Think its about right. No need for fluff.

 

I agree with that.  Just that I don't want it to end is really what I was getting at.

[Deej 76620]

If you were surfing other tabs during the first five minutes of episode one, you may want to go back and watch.  Just a tip.

.

[DaysOff 7911]

Poor guy is getting type cast.

[RPM 26267]

At least he's still hanging in there.

[mulletpelini 5210]

7 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

I agree with that.  Just that I don't want it to end is really what I was getting at.

told you there was season 2 earlier.

[Eskimohorn 5623]

At least he's still hanging in there.

Not in the Sherlock Holmes sequel.

[Zepol87 9173]

I was behind in the thread reading each post and almost lost it and didn't finish the thread. Glad you got it

[Mach 1 1677]

I went back and rewatched the first 4 episodes in anticipation of the finale.  The show is remarkable.  Production value, acting, score, authenticity, drama ... outstanding.

I imagine other would be television producers out there watching this thinking, fuck me, the bar just got raised.

[Buzzrock 14881]

Damn I thought the finale was tonight

[Parliament 14153]

On 5/30/2019 at 6:55 PM, Deej said:

.

Spoilers, Man!

[oSuJeff97 3435]

On 5/30/2019 at 12:47 PM, Bama Chick said:

Ugh, I told y’all Ludmilla’s story had a horrible end.

It’s super gut wrenching to read it in her own words but I thought the show did a good job of telling it.

She’s still alive and has had some health issues but nothing like most of the other people who were in the thick of it at Hospital Number Six.

Because her fetus literally took and absorbed all the radiation. Just nightmarish.

And the stories of the animal liquidators are SO much more graphic and horrific than what the show presented.

On the podcast, the writer says they actually filmed one of the more awful scenes but took it out of the show because he said it felt like it was abuse of the viewers.

It involves shot but not dead dogs. And the liquidators ran out of bullets before they could put them out of their misery. The end result being dogs buried alive in wet concrete.

Since this is a miniseries, I have a feeling it’s going to clean house come awards season since it won’t have to compete against the big prestige dramas.

Uggg thank goodness they didn't show that shit.

Of all the horrible things they've shown in this series, those scenes were by far the hardest to watch for me. I had a much easier time watching the dude laying in the hospital bed with his skin literally melting off his body.

[CurlyDumps 4456]

15 hours ago, Mach 1 said:

I went back and rewatched the first 4 episodes in anticipation of the finale.  The show is remarkable.  Production value, acting, score, authenticity, drama ... outstanding.

I imagine other would be television producers out there watching this thinking, fuck me, the bar just got raised.

also remarkable is that it was written by Craig Mazin, who has mostly done comedy -  That shitty Disaster Movie spoof, Hangover 2, Identity Thief...

[RamjetFDO 10567]

Uggg thank goodness they didn't show that shit.
Of all the horrible things they've shown in this series, those scenes were by far the hardest to watch for me. I had a much easier time watching the dude laying in the hospital bed with his skin literally melting off his body.

My wife heard about that story line before last week's episode and refused to watch it because of that. I watched, cringed at that section, then told her about the rest of the episode plot afterwards.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

1 hour ago, RamjetFDO said:

3 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Uggg thank goodness they didn't show that shit.
Of all the horrible things they've shown in this series, those scenes were by far the hardest to watch for me. I had a much easier time watching the dude laying in the hospital bed with his skin literally melting off his body.

My wife heard about that story line before last week's episode and refused to watch it because of that. I watched, cringed at that section, then told her about the rest of the episode plot afterwards.

Yeah my girlfriend left the room and was just like, "I'm not watching this. Let me know when this shit is over and I'll come back..."  I felt like leaving with her.  Damn it was rough.

[Upgrayedd 5806]

On 5/30/2019 at 11:30 AM, Sbbruin said:

I went to school with the first guy in this commercial.  The Yugo was truly the greatest piece of crap to ever grace American roadways.

 

Put it in H

[Bama Chick 28596]

also remarkable is that it was written by Craig Mazin, who has mostly done comedy -  That shitty Disaster Movie spoof, Hangover 2, Identity Thief...

He’s also Ted Cruz’s roommate from freshman year at Princeton who is notorious for still hating him and shittalking him on Twitter. /noCR

[Sbbruin 21785]

Put it in H

It gets 40 hectares on a gallon of kerosene.

[RPM 26267]

8 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

 

It gets 40 hectares on a gallon of kerosene.

 

and can cut an apple into 3 pieces.

[Buzzrock 14881]

For some reason I’m able to completely separate tv from reality when it comes to those animal scenes. Maybe because I grew up on a farm where animal death was a daily occurrence, I don’t know. But those scenes don’t faze me at all because I know they aren’t real and the subject matter doesn’t bother me that much.

Abuse of children however: yeah I’m leaving the room.