Researchers: Myers-Briggs Ain't Worth A Shit

[phdhorn 6224]

They say you can take it like 5 weeks later and get an entirely different "personality".  This is exactly what happens with me.  I can take it 3 times and get radically different results.  To me that test is pure bullshit.  Now it's true, I have multiple personalities and run a sleazy hotel in California with a spooky Victorian house up the hill, but it's still a joke.  As IMHO are 90% of all personality tests.  Might as well put the types on a Twister spinner and go for it.

Quote

The Myers-Briggs Type Indicator is one of the most popular personality tests in the world. It’s also one of the most regularly debunked.

The test sorts people into one of 16 four-letter personality types based on their preferences for Sensing (S) or Intuition (N), Extraversion (E) or Introversion (I), Thinking (T) or Feeling (F), and Judging (J) or Perceiving (P). The company’s website boasts the assessment has a 90% accuracy rating and a 90% average test-retest correlation, “making it one of the most reliable and accurate personality assessments available.”

Many researchers, however, have long questioned the MBTI’s scientific merit.

“In social science, we use four standards: are the categories reliable, valid, independent, and comprehensive?” Adam Grant, a professor of industrial psychology at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School, wrote in an essay on the subject.“For the MBTI, the evidence says not very, no, no, and not really.”

Personality tests to pursue (or avoid): Find the right personality, behavioral tests for your company

These faults are likely in part because neither of its creators, Katherine Cook Briggs and her daughter Isabel Briggs Myers, had formal training in psychology, explained Merve Emre, author of "The Personality Brokers,” which explores the history of the MBTI.

Katherine Briggs became interested in Carl Jung’s book “Psychological Types” and began “typing” everyone she knew, said Emre, a professor at Oxford University. In 1943, amid the labor boom of World War II, her daughter took that system and designed a questionnaire to determine what job a worker’s personality is best suited for.

“It really was this very unscientific process,” Emre said.

In 1975, Consulting Psychological Press, now known as the Myers-Briggs Company,  commercialized the test and became its exclusive world wide publisher, according to Suresh Balasubramanian, the company's general manager/senior vice president of products, programs, marketing. The company has spent decades improving the assessment and doing more research on its validy, Balasubramanian said.

Research has since found that upwards of 50% of people got a different score when they re-took the MBTI just five weeks later. Studies have also shown that the test is not effective at predicting people’s success in different jobs.

Job applications: Should you apply for a job you're not qualified for?

Balasubramanian claims the research discrediting the MBTI is outdated, but the statistics have been so often repeated by subsequent articles and studies that it created a sort of "Internet myth." He added that the problems those researchers encountered have long since been fixed.

"When you look at validity of the instrument it is just as valid as any other personality assessment," Balasubramanian said.

Today, some 1.5 million people take the test online each year and 88 of the Fortune 100 companies are clients of the Myers-Briggs Company, according to Balasubramanian. So why do people continue to take a test that reporters from Vox said in 2015, “has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign?”

Emre, the Oxford professor, explained that unlike other personality tests, the MBTI is appealing because it is “nonjudgemental” meaning that that all the results are positive.

It was designed that way because its creators “thought that would be very motivating for workers to believe the only purpose of the indicator was to match them to the best job that was suited for them,” Emre said.

She added that the test satisfies an innate desire to know more about ourselves and an easy way to describe that self to others.

"Once you know that you can figure out ways to bring your life choices into alignment with that version of yourself," Emre said. “I think that’s a really, really appealing fantasy that we can aspire to a kind of self governance and a kind of coherence."

 

[DaysOff 7977]

United Airlines uses something called the Hogan to pre screen pilot applicants before any interview process starts. If you "fail" maybe we'll get back to you in a year or two and you can retake it. Lost out on a lot of good people that are probably at Delta now.

Apparently it was written by a woman, so I advise all new hires to let their spouse take it for them. Fucking HR man.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

I think the test has a very small benefit in helping people understand some of their inherent tendencies, depending on how strongly you score in a category. But I don't think it's worth anything to a third party trying to evaluate anyone.

I've taken it a half dozen times and I'm always an INTJ, and the I and J are always very strongly pronounced. Knowing that has helped me develop professionally, so for what it cost me ($0), I am glad to have taken it. 

[UTGrad98 2282]

As an INTJ I concur with this assessment. 

[Pato del Muerto 52632]

Seems like very few social science experiments are repeatable, as people are dynamic creatures that are effected by things like stress, mood and diet. 

Social science is just more fuzzy than hard science. 

[phdhorn 6224]

I also think one of the pitfalls of this test, especially when talking to a buncha people I've known who have taken it, is that they actually try to steer themselves over to that personality type, or forcibly fake-attach themselves to behave like that type (or justify shortcomings as "well I'm naturally a 1234 type, so it's expected."  I think taking it for more than casual fun and curiosity is unwarranted, even if it seems like it "pegs" some people.  Hell after a few questions I even begin to pick up the syntax and knowing if I answer in a certain way, I'll get a certain result.

Give me the ink blots any day!

[Brisketexan 105462]

I took a Strengthfinders assessment a couple of years ago (along with everyone else on the team on a large volunteer project).  I found it to be pretty accurate.  The result of that was mostly that everyone became more comfortable with their role, and with the roles of their fellow team members.  That was helpful.

[Brisketexan 105462]

18 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

I also think one of the pitfalls of this test, especially when talking to a buncha people I've known who have taken it, is that they actually try to steer themselves over to that personality type, or forcibly fake-attach themselves to behave like that type (or justify shortcomings as "well I'm naturally a 1234 type, so it's expected."  I think taking it for more than casual fun and curiosity is unwarranted, even if it seems like it "pegs" some people.  Hell after a few questions I even begin to pick up the syntax and knowing if I answer in a certain way, I'll get a certain result.

Give me the ink blots any day!

Dude.  They all look like boobs.

Or maybe that's jut me.

[HiggyBaby 2548]

As an INTP I’m waiting to see what the responses are so that I can then form my own.

[jimmyjazz 46283]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I took a Strengthfinders assessment a couple of years ago (along with everyone else on the team on a large volunteer project).  I found it to be pretty accurate.  The result of that was mostly that everyone became more comfortable with their role, and with the roles of their fellow team members.  That was helpful.

The world needs ditch diggers, too.

[retread 2951]

#teamINTJ

[Pato del Muerto 52632]

The point isn’t that it’s tough to fool. It’s easy to fool by it’s nature. The idea is if you take it honestly it should be pretty accurate. 

I don’t think it’s news to most people whether they are introverted or extroverted, or the other differentiators, nor would it be tough to see how to game it if one was so inclined.

so it’s usefulness is limited to strangers who have to judge you without knowing you.

 

[miguelito 11327]

This is why people should just stick to horoscopes.

[tokamak 6443]

Pseudoscience is worthless? Stop the presses!

These things are like horoscopes. It's all confirmation bias. Lay out a bunch of generalized platitudes and people will fit themselves in neatly according to what they already believe. We did a Myers Briggs ripoff at work a few months ago (I guess my employer was too cheap to spring for the real deal?) that was based on colors or something. After the session they wanted to come around and put two stickers with your two primary colors on everyone's badges so that we'd "know how to interact with each other". I kinda treated it like I do when one of my kids wants to give me a princess sticker - it's very important to them and costs me nothing (except some time, but hey, they're paying me), so sure, why not.

[BTW 370]

I agree about the MB: I took it once ans was an INTJ, I took it later ans was an ENFP.  Maybe I changed, maybe it was the test?

A couple of months ago I took the Enneagram as Part of some group/team building thing.  I seemed to be much more "spot on" than the MB and when I read the descriptions of my findings I found my self agreeing, not only with their assessments of me, but those of my wife/friends.  

[Chips O'Toole 1327]

I always hated personality tests because this particular one was so worthless.

A couple of years ago I had a few sessions with a counselor who pointed me to the Enneagram test which I skeptically filled out. It was surprisingly very insightful and accurate, and I have since recommended it to a few family members who have agreed that it is pretty accurate and sometimes eerily on-point.

[YChang 3463]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Seems like very few social science experiments are repeatable, as people are dynamic creatures that are effected by things like stress, mood and diet. 

Social science is just more fuzzy than hard science. 

Actually personality psychology is one of the branches of psych that's had results replicated in multiple studies etc...

What sucks is the irresponsible companies peddling something like a Myers-Briggs into HR departments as the only thing that matters in recruiting or career development. 

7 minutes ago, Chips O'Toole said:

I always hated personality tests because this particular one was so worthless.

A couple of years ago I had a few sessions with a counselor who pointed me to the Enneagram test which I skeptically filled out. It was surprisingly very insightful and accurate, and I have since recommended it to a few family members who have agreed that it is pretty accurate and sometimes eerily on-point.

Ennegrams can be great tool to explore and understand how certain issues carries across generations. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by YChang

[Brisketexan 105462]

1 hour ago, phdhorn said:

 

[Brisketexan 105462]

Don't know why that last post showed up that way.

Any way, I've always chuckled at this quip: "Yeah, I took a personality test.  I failed."

I remember the Scientology dipshits would always bug us as we walked by asking if we wanted to take a "free personality test?"  I liked to respond with "you're testing my personality right now, asshole."

[DaysOff 7977]

I always hated personality tests because this particular one was so worthless.

A couple of years ago I had a few sessions with a counselor who pointed me to the Enneagram test which I skeptically filled out. It was surprisingly very insightful and accurate, and I have since recommended it to a few family members who have agreed that it is pretty accurate and sometimes eerily on-point.

Fuck my wife has joined that cult. YOU NEED TO READ THIS BOOK, YOU'RE SUCH A TYPE 5.

[GringoSalado 1652]

3 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I think the test has a very small benefit in helping people understand some of their inherent tendencies, depending on how strongly you score in a category. But I don't think it's worth anything to a third party trying to evaluate anyone.

Came here to post this ^

[GringoSalado 1652]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The point isn’t that it’s tough to fool. It’s easy to fool by it’s nature. The idea is if you take it honestly it should be pretty accurate. 

I don’t think it’s news to most people whether they are introverted or extroverted, or the other differentiators, nor would it be tough to see how to game it if one was so inclined.

so it’s usefulness is limited to strangers who have to judge you without knowing you.

 

I've had to take it 3 times, and I always thought the Introvert/Extrovert binary was obvious and therefore suspect, but I'll be damned if I innately understand the other types even today, after reading their descriptors for the hundredth time. And I always score off the chart on everything except I/O where I've scored barely Introverted once and barely Extroverted twice.

 

When I read my overall type it does make sense, but a lot of my horoscope does as well.

 

I guess my reaction is a blended meh. I've never had anybody oversell this test or its use in my situation so I always thought it harmless but somewhat useful.

[Pato del Muerto 52632]

About 15 years ago I tried to get into pharm sales. Every application from every company had a personality test to fill out.  First couple I did honestly, which should have led to non salesperson type results. I’d immediately get a no thanks email. 

So then I tried to tailor my answers to the typical salesperson personality:  outgoing, work the room, like to meet new people, that bullshit. Got the same no thanks emails. Never was able to talk to a live person, even on the phone. 

 

[High Plains Drifter 11053]

My thoughts on personality tests can be summarized as follows:

 

 

 

 

Does that make me a INTJ or an EPXQ or what?

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

well, definitely not an INTJ

[El Diablo 4232]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude.  They all look like boobs.

Or maybe that's jut me.

It's two bats, tugging at something. (Flowers For Algernon reference...)

[RDCanecutter 26477]

It was the horoscope of the 90s.

But I think I am a lot like Gen. George Patton. [dadada, dadada, dadada, dadadaaaaa]

[Dbeasy 15128]

I have become extremely skeptical about both personality tests and career tests after two experiences.

I took the career test that my kids took. Out of 350 careers, it actually recommended the one career that I actually had selected in real life. Perfect right? Nope. After receiving a four year degree in that area and practicing for two years in the profession, I discovered I hated that career with a passion. The test measured the wrong things. It measured things I found interesting, NOT important aspects of real jobs. I changed careers and have been happy ever since.

A few years ago I took a personality test. It was very difficult for me to answer the questions. It all depended upon the context of the situations but the questions never set the broad context. In particular, the test kept asking over and over and over questions about competitive situations. The results of the test, and other tests, indicated I was a perfect candidate for a job except for one thing - I was deemed “unreliable” due to my competitiveness score. Anyone who knows me would laugh. I got the job anyway and proceeded to pulverize our competition into the dirt. Just kidding.

The tests measure the wrong things.

[Brisketexan 105462]

2 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

The tests measure the wrong things.

Sounds like someone's bitter....

[Dahobbs 17703]

3 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Seems like very few social science experiments are repeatable, as people are dynamic creatures that are effected by things like stress, mood and diet. 

Social science is just more fuzzy than hard science. 

Very true, it is actually a bit of a crisis right now:

https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/02/the-replication-crisis-may-also-be-a-theory-crisis/

 

A replication crisis has called into question results from behavioral (and other) sciences. Complaints have focused on poor statistical methods, the burying of negative results, and other “questionable research practices” that undermine the quality of individual studies.

But methods are only part of the problem, as Michael Muthukrishna and Joseph Henrich argue in a paper in Nature Human Behaviour this week. It’s not just that individual puzzle pieces are low in quality; it’s also that there’s not enough effort to fit those pieces into a coherent picture. "Without an overarching theoretical framework,” write Muthukrishna and Henrich, “empirical programs spawn and grow from personal intuitions and culturally biased folk theories.”

see also: https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/08/why-do-only-two-thirds-of-famous-social-science-results-replicate-its-complicated/

[F250 28827]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude.  They all look like boobs.

Or maybe that's jut me.

I think it depends on the set of ink blots being used. I've never seen a set that had any boobs in it, it seems I always get the ones that are shaped like bulging dicks or sticks of butter, it seems like they are really into buttery dicks.

 

[Brisketexan 105462]

1 minute ago, F250 said:

I think it depends on the set of ink blots being used. I've never seen a set that had any boobs in it, it seems I always get the ones that are shaped like bulging dicks or sticks of butter, it seems like they are really into buttery dicks.

 

[tx 3 putt 77592]

Elite ENTJ here, less yapping and more work por favor 

 

forget his name, but a UT prof is an expert on this stuff. He hosted our 3 day mba boot camp and damn his talks on this was fascinating.

Edited May 7, 2019 by tx 3 putt

[retread 2951]

[52-80 19271]

no wai.

[tx 3 putt 77592]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude.  They all look like boobs.

Or maybe that's jut me.

The all look like a chick with big tits to me 

[52-80 19271]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

soo.....his mother had a soft penis?

[Pato del Muerto 52632]

All Rorschach are strongly vaginal. 

[Brisketexan 105462]

6 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

All Rorschach are strongly vaginal. 

......which bothers some men. The word itself makes some men uncomfortable. Vagina.

[High Plains Drifter 11053]

13 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

All Rorschach are strongly vaginal. 

Skip to 1:20

 

 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

+1 on Enneagram being pretty insightful, IMO. 

[phdhorn 6224]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

......which bothers some men. The word itself makes some men uncomfortable. Vagina.

I used to live in Maryland, just across the river from Vagina.

[Nivek 16994]

Astrology for pseudo-intellectuals.

[The Dog 44170]

United Airlines uses something called the Hogan to pre screen pilot applicants before any interview process starts. If you "fail" maybe we'll get back to you in a year or two and you can retake it. Lost out on a lot of good people that are probably at Delta now.

Apparently it was written by a woman, so I advise all new hires to let their spouse take it for them. Fucking HR man.

I was Myers-Briggs’d at Delta so they probably had to take it there too.

[SquishMitten 10447]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Sounds like someone's bitter....

If you can fit inside, you’ve already failed 

[Pescado_Rojo 19442]

5 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

About 15 years ago I tried to get into pharm sales. Every application from every company had a personality test to fill out.  First couple I did honestly, which should have led to non salesperson type results. I’d immediately get a no thanks email. 

So then I tried to tailor my answers to the typical salesperson personality:  outgoing, work the room, like to meet new people, that bullshit. Got the same no thanks emails. Never was able to talk to a live person, even on the phone. 

 

Are you a super hot chick?

No?

Then you aren't qualified. 

[Pato del Muerto 52632]

5 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Are you a super hot chick?

No?

Then you aren't qualified. 

Yeah I was trying to recall if there was a gender ID question or not 

[Brisketexan 105462]

13 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Yeah I was trying to recall if there was a gender ID question or not 

Was there any math on the test?

[Dolemite 143]

9 hours ago, phdhorn said:

They say you can take it like 5 weeks later and get an entirely different "personality".  This is exactly what happens with me.  I can take it 3 times and get radically different results.  To me that test is pure bullshit.  Now it's true, I have multiple personalities and run a sleazy hotel in California with a spooky Victorian house up the hill, but it's still a joke.  As IMHO are 90% of all personality tests.  Might as well put the types on a Twister spinner and go for it.

 

Mine has remained constant over the last 10 years or so. I know this guy. Try his test. Free, no registration. https://www.careerplanner.com/MB/Free-Personality-Test2.cfm

This is another site that has held the same over time. http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp

If borderline you can consider behavior under stress and back into your type.https://www.psychologyjunkie.com/2015/08/02/how-each-mbti-type-reacts-to-stress-and-how-to-help/

 

[Dolemite 143]

5 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

About 15 years ago I tried to get into pharm sales. Every application from every company had a personality test to fill out.  First couple I did honestly, which should have led to non salesperson type results. I’d immediately get a no thanks email. 

So then I tried to tailor my answers to the typical salesperson personality:  outgoing, work the room, like to meet new people, that bullshit. Got the same no thanks emails. Never was able to talk to a live person, even on the phone. 

 

You can't fool the test. If you try, it will return results that indicate you were dishonest with your answers.