Negotiating value for a totaled car

[bernorange 8363]

My son get rear ended last week while stopped at a red light (car title is in my name).  Speed limit on the road was 55mph.  He got hit hard.  Car got pushed into the car in front of him and took major damage to the front and rear.  Thankfully, no one was hurt.

Insurance company for car that hit him has accepted responsibility for the accident and is handling the damage claim.  We had taken the car to two body shops before they had contacted us, so I knew there was a better than even chance the damage would exceed the value of the car.  I took the car to the body shop the insurance company preferred and got the cal today from the insurance company that the damage was too much and they are considering it totaled.

The adjuster sent me an email reporting that they figure the settlement value to be around $8,500.  This is for a basic (no extra options) 2015 Nissan Sentra SV with 63K miles on it.  The car was in good condition with new tires though they have claimed it to be in fair condition (docking ~$1,600 off the settlement valuation - they started at just over $10K).

CarMax has several 2015 Sentra SVs with 50-60K miles for sale right now, but all at around $12K.  Cars.com has a lot of listings for 2015 Sentras from all manner of dealers, but the mileages vary greatly and the prices do to - anywhere from $9,500 (high mileage) up.  The best deal I can find there is from a sketchy looking used car dealership (<Last name>'s Used Cars type of place).

I think the $10K market value referenced in the adjuster's report is about fair for a settlement amount to make me whole on the car that was lost. The proposed settlement amount is a bit of a kick in the ass.

Anyone have any experience in negotiating a totaled car settlement with an insurance agency?  Any advice on how I should handle this?

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2740]

Why are they considering it in fair condition?
You should get a report showing why.

[luke duke 6414]

45 minutes ago, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Why are they considering it in fair condition?

Probably due to heavy damage in both the front and rear.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2740]

Any time they take a condition adjustment it is due to more than usual wear and tear or prior damage. Like really worn seats or floor mats.

[Clintonaldo 2576]

3 hours ago, bernorange said:

My son get rear ended last week while stopped at a red light (car title is in my name).  Speed limit on the road was 55mph.  He got hit hard.  Car got pushed into the car in front of him and took major damage to the front and rear.  Thankfully, no one was hurt.

Insurance company for car that hit him has accepted responsibility for the accident and is handling the damage claim.  We had taken the car to two body shops before they had contacted us, so I knew there was a better than even chance the damage would exceed the value of the car.  I took the car to the body shop the insurance company preferred and got the cal today from the insurance company that the damage was too much and they are considering it totaled.

The adjuster sent me an email reporting that they figure the settlement value to be around $8,500.  This is for a basic (no extra options) 2015 Nissan Sentra SV with 63K miles on it.  The car was in good condition with new tires though they have claimed it to be in fair condition (docking ~$1,600 off the settlement valuation - they started at just over $10K).

CarMax has several 2015 Sentra SVs with 50-60K miles for sale right now, but all at around $12K.  Cars.com has a lot of listings for 2015 Sentras from all manner of dealers, but the mileages vary greatly and the prices do to - anywhere from $9,500 (high mileage) up.  The best deal I can find there is from a sketchy looking used car dealership (<Last name>'s Used Cars type of place).

I think the $10K market value referenced in the adjuster's report is about fair for a settlement amount to make me whole on the car that was lost. The proposed settlement amount is a bit of a kick in the ass.

Anyone have any experience in negotiating a totaled car settlement with an insurance agency?  Any advice on how I should handle this?

Your problem is using what a car lot has the car priced at. CarMax is no haggle for a reason. The adjuster has room. You could always ask to speak to their manager if they won’t come up any.

[mapplewhite132 309]

Try looking up the value on NADA.com. I was able to get a significantly better settlement for my totaled truck by sending in the nada value to the adjuster.

I’d also check kbb, Texas direct auto, and local dealers for comps

[beer 3220]

6 hours ago, bernorange said:

My son get rear ended last week.........took major damage to the front and rear. 

are we not doing phrasing anymore?

[elfenix 34332]

a rebuilt 2015 sentra SV with similar miles sold on ebay for $7500, so $8300 seems like a shit offer.  it does say "loaded" but it doesn't seem like there's anything fancy about it, except maybe the radio/backup cam

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-Nissan-Sentra-SV-/133001502869?_trksid=p2047675.m43663.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc&orig_cvip=true

 

edit: 2014 SV with 40k miles went for $7200 so maybe not so shit

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Nissan-Sentra-SV-4dr-Sedan/254175978852?hash=item3b2e11a564:g:LBkAAOSwmi1cjTat

 

more miles but later model year $6,900

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2016-Nissan-Sentra-SV/113729886864?hash=item1a7ad45a90:g:GxMAAOSw8Kpcw28S

 

edit2: the reason i like ebay for this is because you can see what stuff actually sold for

 

edit3: looking at asking for similar mileage SVs on autotrader i'm going to guess a lot of dealers would hang up on you if you called in offering $8300 for a sentra SV.

 

edit4: there's a few in the dallas area listed below $9000 for similar miles, i assume any of those would sell for $8300 or less

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=515096535

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=512417586

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=513184676

 

san marcus:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=514874169

Edited May 8, 2019 by elfenix

[IDIOTsavant 8502]

[bernorange 8363]

OK, so Clintonaldo sent me a PM and when I tried to read it, Surly gives me an EX3 error code.  Something that was posted in the Borked thread suggested to me to try changing my theme to see if I could read it.  BIG MISTAKE.  If you change to the last theme in the list, you will lose complete access to Surly.  The entire site disappears into Error 500 borkland.  I just got access to the site restored (but I still can't read/respond to PMs).

So, I couldn't read Surly, but I did search around the internets and found a couple of decent pages discussing this negotiating process (posting in case anyone else is interested):

https://clearsurance.com/blog/5-tips-to-negotiate-the-best-settlement-for-my-totaled-car

http://www.zbllc.net/Total_Losses_and_Creative_Settlements.php

So, there are two main issues we have to agree upon - the base valuation for  2015 Nissan Sentra SV and the condition adjustment.  I could try to explain what I've done, but it's probably easier to copy/paste the email I sent the adjuster:

Quote

Hi <adjuster>,

I have received your valuation report and I'm reviewing it.

Your valuation claims a base value of $10,075.22.  This number was calculated as an average of the adjusted sale or list prices for vehicles listed in the report.

The four vehicles listed with an sold price have incomplete vin numbers, so it's impossible for me to determine their accident history or otherwise how comparable they are to my car.  There is also no indication if the sale was financed or not (ie. what the terms of the sale were).

The vehicles listed with a for sale price (excepting the ones from CarMax) include a "Projected Sold Adjustment" that is not explained.  It seems arbitrary.

I looked up my car on NADA and it reports a value of $10,325.  I have printed and attached that report to this email.

I also looked up comps on autotrader.com and cargurus.com (attached).  On both sites, I was able to filter the search for just 2015 Sentra SV base model (without additional options/features).  I was able to additionally filter out (hide/remove) listings for vehicles with an accident history.

cargurus.com lists nine (9) vehicles (excluding the sponsored listings) with an average list price of $11,854.  If we were to apply your arbitrary "Projected Sold Adjustment" of 7.84%, we would get an adjusted average list price of $10,925.

autotrader.com lists four (4) vehicles (excluding the featured listing) with an average list price of $11,890.  All four vehicles listed here were also listed in the cargurus.com listing.

Based upon these findings, your base valuation appears to be too low.

The zbllc link I posted above mentions this:

Quote

...
The third database valuation company has a unique approach to determining fair market settlements. This company uses a ratio approach to some predetermined condition they consider typical based on the age and mileage of the loss vehicle. Based on this ratio, a standard for valuation is assumed and is used to justify condition adjustments.

Unfortunately, when a vehicle does not receive a rating of “good” in a category, it results in a decrease in the predetermined ratio. However, there is no way to measure what a good or fair rating by category means, or the impact to the weighted average of the overall vehicle. This ratio reduction is then used to reduce the supposed average vehicle value and is referred to as a “condition adjustment”. For valuation or adjustment purposes, this database company assumes good as the typical vehicle measurement. What is “good”? For that matter what is “poor” or “exceptional”?
...

That matches what I'm seeing in the adjuster's report:

I sent the adjuster another email:

Quote

Hi <adjuster>,

You valuation report contains a page covering condition adjustments.  On this page there is a grading of fair or good for various areas of the car.  The page does not explain what criteria is used (or covered) for each category (area) grade nor how the condition adjustment is calculated.  Please explain.

I'm still waiting for the adjuster to respond to either email.  Meanwhile, the insurance agent handling the claim called me and asked if I would accept the adjuster's valuation.  I told her I had sent the adjuster emails and I'm waiting for responses. 

I sent my son to the body shop to take more pictures of the windshield, dashboard, car body (everywhere except the damaged front and back), etc.  I have those and plan to contest the "fair" valuation for the glass, dash, paint and body, possibly the others.  That car was in good shape and those valuations are BS.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2740]

Yeah for a 4 year old car you should start seeing those condition adjustments being commensurate.  Meaning, it is expected to have some wear on the carpets under the gas pedal.  It should have multiple small scratches and smaller dings.   If you didn't see those it would go into the "above average" category and would be additional value.  

As you pointed out, they haven't done a good job showing what is typical.

[Gil Bang 26018]

I'm trying to figure out how you attach a printed report to an email

[bernorange 8363]

Just now, Gil Bang said:

I'm trying to figure out how you attach a printed report to an email

I have magical powers (and a printer driver that prints to PDF files):  https://download.cnet.com/PrimoPDF/3000-18497_4-10264577.html

[El Diablo 4232]

On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 7:34 PM, luke duke said:

Probably due to heavy damage in both the front and rear.

That would be "Vic" condition.

[Clintonaldo 2576]

7 hours ago, bernorange said:

OK, so Clintonaldo sent me a PM and when I tried to read it, Surly gives me an EX3 error code.  Something that was posted in the Borked thread suggested to me to try changing my theme to see if I could read it.  BIG MISTAKE.  If you change to the last theme in the list, you will lose complete access to Surly.  The entire site disappears into Error 500 borkland.  I just got access to the site restored (but I still can't read/respond to PMs).

So, I couldn't read Surly, but I did search around the internets and found a couple of decent pages discussing this negotiating process (posting in case anyone else is interested):

https://clearsurance.com/blog/5-tips-to-negotiate-the-best-settlement-for-my-totaled-car

http://www.zbllc.net/Total_Losses_and_Creative_Settlements.php

So, there are two main issues we have to agree upon - the base valuation for  2015 Nissan Sentra SV and the condition adjustment.  I could try to explain what I've done, but it's probably easier to copy/paste the email I sent the adjuster:

The zbllc link I posted above mentions this:

That matches what I'm seeing in the adjuster's report:

I sent the adjuster another email:

I'm still waiting for the adjuster to respond to either email.  Meanwhile, the insurance agent handling the claim called me and asked if I would accept the adjuster's valuation.  I told her I had sent the adjuster emails and I'm waiting for responses. 

I sent my son to the body shop to take more pictures of the windshield, dashboard, car body (everywhere except the damaged front and back), etc.  I have those and plan to contest the "fair" valuation for the glass, dash, paint and body, possibly the others.  That car was in good shape and those valuations are BS.

The short of it is I said I am surprised they aren’t being flexible if you are willing to sign a full release. I would stress to them that your son is extremely sore and that you are ready to put this behind you. An adjuster worth a shit could find some compromise with you. Don’t go all Harry Hardcock on the person. Be nice as it is always harder to tell a nice person no. 

[bernorange 8363]

Thanks.  I don't know yet if they are being flexible.  Still waiting for the adjuster to respond to my comments.

[conVINCEd 21469]

I can’t believe the most important question hasn’t been asked yet.  Which insurance company?

[Beau Vine 54428]

3 hours ago, Clintonaldo said:

 Be nice as it is always harder to tell a nice person no. 

Wut?  We're talking about an insurance company here.

[bernorange 8363]

Yeah, so this is fun.  The adjuster called me two days ago.  He didn't have any answers for the questions in my emails.  He called to clarify my questions as if the language in the emails wasn't clear.  I confirmed the questions in the emails.  He said he'd get some answers and get back to me.  Today I get a call from the agent handling the claim.  She says the adjuster had processed my emails and there was no basis to change his valuation - they aren't going to negotiate shit and I can suck a big dick (not in those words).

[Clintonaldo 2576]

1 hour ago, bernorange said:

Yeah, so this is fun.  The adjuster called me two days ago.  He didn't have any answers for the questions in my emails.  He called to clarify my questions as if the language in the emails wasn't clear.  I confirmed the questions in the emails.  He said he'd get some answers and get back to me.  Today I get a call from the agent handling the claim.  She says the adjuster had processed my emails and there was no basis to change his valuation - they aren't going to negotiate shit and I can suck a big dick (not in those words).

Do you carry full coverage on that vehicle?

[bernorange 8363]

No.

[Reagan1k 3024]

I just went through this.  Critical to get a  copy of the Market Valuation Report on your vehicle and the ones they used as a comparison.

Actually the adjuster was pretty cool and sent me a full copy of the report without me asking.

I went line by line and found a few discrepancies.  I still had the window sticker and paperwork on the car and found a few options the car had that she didn't properly account for.

I also provided a receipt for new premium tires I'd installed a couple months prior and they gave me credit for that.

I pulled up auto-trader and picked 3-4 comparable vehicles and sent her those with the missed options and tire receipt and they came up about $2500 from the initial offer.

[Clintonaldo 2576]

21 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

I just went through this.  Critical to get a  copy of the Market Valuation Report on your vehicle and the ones they used as a comparison.

Actually the adjuster was pretty cool and sent me a full copy of the report without me asking.

I went line by line and found a few discrepancies.  I still had the window sticker and paperwork on the car and found a few options the car had that she didn't properly account for.

I also provided a receipt for new premium tires I'd installed a couple months prior and they gave me credit for that.

I pulled up auto-trader and picked 3-4 comparable vehicles and sent her those with the missed options and tire receipt and they came up about $2500 from the initial offer.

A good adjuster doesn’t take things personal and tries to pay the correct price. It’s easy to miss options. 

[RDCanecutter 26472]

Serious question: How close is OP to the Mexican border?