HBO's Watchmen series

[The Dude 1246]

Saw the movie, but it didn’t floor me.  I am really digging this show on HBO, however
 

After the Leftovers I would watch Lindelhof’s adaptation of a dinner menu

Edited October 28, 2019 by The Dude

[52-80 19204]

16 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

whether people can accept it or not, I think watchmen is going to be a very political story with loose tie-ins to current political issues. I imagine some will turn off the show because they see it as an attack on the Right.

what the franchise illustrates (and sets it apart from traditional comics) is that there are no binary good and bad.  its all shades of gray.  Left is also dumb with their strict gun control (cops needing to request gun-release), and their regressing of the police into a limp force

[bolverk 29694]

Good article from Slate drawing the connection between the real-life WWI German propaganda leaflet targeting African American soldiers and the riot leading up to the Tulsa massacre.

https://slate.com/culture/2019/10/watchmen-world-war-i-flyer-92nd-infantry-real-hallo-boys.html

(Includes full text of leaflets.)

[NOMAAA 1696]

another great episode.  the veidt story is interesting, i guess they are all clones or a simulation that Dr. Manhattan is playing with.  The "birth" of Dr Manhattan was awesome. 

[seven 1367]

3 hours ago, 52-80 said:

what the franchise illustrates (and sets it apart from traditional comics) is that there are no binary good and bad.  its all shades of gray.  Left is also dumb with their strict gun control (cops needing to request gun-release), and their regressing of the police into a limp force

The 3 minute long trigger warning before American hero story that everyone just ignores is another good example. 

[mdmost 43011]

30 minutes ago, NOMAAA said:

another great episode.  the veidt story is interesting, i guess they are all clones or a simulation that Dr. Manhattan is playing with.  The "birth" of Dr Manhattan was awesome. 

In the graphic novel, Veidt is a genius who creates new species of animals. So it's not a shock that he could clone people or make human looking androids. And I think he's trying to replicate Dr. Manhattan's birth so he can be that and live on. 

I loved the newsstand owner and delivery guy talking which is a nod to the graphic novel. The newsstand owner was Bunny Colvin from The Wire. 

Interested to see Silk Spectre's return. The Hooded Justice segment was great. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by mdmost

[oSuJeff97 3435]

21 hours ago, mdmost said:

I think the reason to show the Tulsa massacre was to show that the area has always been home to radical, racist elements. The Klan is now traded out for the Seventh Cavalry. Most of the cops appear to be black. Blacks seem to live in the nicer neighborhoods where the poor white trash are sequestered in Nixonville (a trailer park). What the movie didn't show was how far right (no CR) Rorschach was. The idea being if this follows the graphic novel, the Seventh Cavalry is full of racists who took Rorschach's journal as a manifesto. In the novel, Rorschach drops his journal off in the mail to a right wing conspiracy theory newspaper where he tells of Oz's plans and who murdered the Comedian. 

I could be wrong here, but I don't think it's so much that Rorschach was "far-right" in his political ideology... it's that he had a completely uncompromising view of "justice," e.g., he would never accept the idea that Ozy/Veidt would (essentially) commit a massive crime in order to save humanity from itself... Rorschach would say that humanity should just let itself play out and if it destroys itself, then it destroys itself.

Rorschach, if he were in 2019 Tulsa, would have as little patience/sympathy for the Seventh Calvalry as the Russian did. He'd be the first person running through Nixonville busting heads.

I think the idea of the Seventh Kalvary taking his journal as their manifesto is playing with the idea of hate groups/terrorists/etc., subverting ideas to justify their violence.

Edited October 28, 2019 by oSuJeff97

[52-80 19204]

^^exactly right.

 

How about that miss crookshanks thougj

 

[Pato del Muerto 52532]

The reznor score is noticeable and great, IMO. 

Also, watched and read some online stuff to get a better understanding of the world since I never read the novel and barely watched the movie years ago, and one Easter egg clip on IMDb thinks that Don Johnson is nite owl. Shows owl mugs and other owl things around him, up to the owl ship that crashes. I don’t consider that a spoiler based on his role so far. 

[babysdaddy 2725]

5 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The reznor score is noticeable and great, IMO. 

Also, watched and read some online stuff to get a better understanding of the world since I never read the novel and barely watched the movie years ago, and one Easter egg clip on IMDb thinks that Don Johnson is nite owl. Shows owl mugs and other owl things around him, up to the owl ship that crashes. I don’t consider that a spoiler based on his role so far. 

Has Reznor done a score since the The Social Network?  It is awesome

[mdmost 43011]

5 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

The reznor score is noticeable and great, IMO. 

Also, watched and read some online stuff to get a better understanding of the world since I never read the novel and barely watched the movie years ago, and one Easter egg clip on IMDb thinks that Don Johnson is nite owl. Shows owl mugs and other owl things around him, up to the owl ship that crashes. I don’t consider that a spoiler based on his role so far. 

I don't think he was Nite Owl but that might explain why Silk Spectre returns to investigate his death. Either that or he was given Archie by the original Nite Owl after he and Laurie moved away from crime fighting. I am really enjoying the story moving from costumed heroes to cops who have to wear masks to protect themselves. I think the Klan outfit was misdirection. That might've been Judd's father's Klan outfit as he tries to reconcile with his past. He's obviously the boy in the picture that was on his desk. Then again, he could've been the 2nd shooter in Angela's house. 

Edited October 29, 2019 by mdmost

[CooterBrown 18015]

Has Reznor done a score since the The Social Network?  It is awesome

Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, a bunch of documentaries, some shorts. 66 composer credits on IMDB. He also did the soundtrack for a bunch of movies like Man On Fire.

[DougO 5253]

On 7/20/2019 at 6:19 PM, Tom said:

The movie was probably my favorite super hero film after Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy.  I know I'm in the minority of people who loved the movie.

The Leftovers was also one of my all-time favorite television series.  There's no way I'm not watching this.

I thought the Watchman movie was great, and wish there had been more instead of other worn out shitty comic themes.  Got tired of being suckered by HBO for one or two shows a year and a whole lot of shitty shit for way too much money.

[SydneyCarton 48127]

19 hours ago, oSuJeff97 said:

I could be wrong here, but I don't think it's so much that Rorschach was "far-right" in his political ideology... it's that he had a completely uncompromising view of "justice," e.g., he would never accept the idea that Ozy/Veidt would (essentially) commit a massive crime in order to save humanity from itself... Rorschach would say that humanity should just let itself play out and if it destroys itself, then it destroys itself.

Rorschach, if he were in 2019 Tulsa, would have as little patience/sympathy for the Seventh Calvalry as the Russian did. He'd be the first person running through Nixonville busting heads.

I think the idea of the Seventh Kalvary taking his journal as their manifesto is playing with the idea of hate groups/terrorists/etc., subverting ideas to justify their violence.

In the graphic novel he was far, far right. He wrote regularly to the far right newspaper, and there were spots where he talked about how their ideology and newspaper was the last beacon of truth to him in a world gone mad. But as another poster said, he could be far right and still “good” in a world where everything is gray. And it doesn’t mean he might not still hate the 7th Kavalry in this world as well. 

[Bookman 4639]

22 hours ago, NOMAAA said:

another great episode.  the veidt story is interesting, i guess they are all clones or a simulation that Dr. Manhattan is playing with.  The "birth" of Dr Manhattan was awesome. 

Wonder what he's going to do with the bodies in the basement.

[Pato del Muerto 52532]

2 hours ago, Bookman said:

Wonder what he's going to do with the bodies in the basement.

Halloween decorations 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

12 hours ago, mdmost said:

I don't think he was Nite Owl but that might explain why Silk Spectre returns to investigate his death. Either that or he was given Archie by the original Nite Owl after he and Laurie moved away from crime fighting. I am really enjoying the story moving from costumed heroes to cops who have to wear masks to protect themselves. I think the Klan outfit was misdirection. That might've been Judd's father's Klan outfit as he tries to reconcile with his past. He's obviously the boy in the picture that was on his desk. Then again, he could've been the 2nd shooter in Angela's house. 

There's something else I noticed when I re-watched the first episode... during the opening scene in 1921 Tulsa, when the family is escaping with young Lou Gossett, Jr., he looks up and the camera lingers on a Klan guy in his robes walking down Greenwood Ave., with his mask off and carrying a rifle.  I don't recall if his robes had a badge on it or not... need to go back and look... but I always thought the camera lingered on his face for a reason... he's the only white face they specifically showed in the opening sequence.  I'm wondering if that was maybe Don Johnson's grandfather?  Hmmm.

[Bookman 4639]

These episodes deserve multiple rewatches. There are so many details in each scene. Or you can go to YouTube and watch a video by someone who has done all the work.

[Goredho 17412]

Spoiler alert, scroll by if you haven't seen the first episode.

Watched ep 1 last night while high.  I could have used a Star Wars text scroll box.  Don Johnson's demise was telegraphed and a little forced.  As soon as I saw him acting sweet, nice and likable in a family social situation, I was like, yep, this fucker gonna die.  So I was sort of meh about it all.  I will give it a couple more episodes and see if it hooks me.

[Bama Chick 28596]

I just watched a couple of YouTube videos on the series and one of them mentioned Will Reeves’s letter from his dad and I thought this question they asked was interesting.

Does the letter say “Watch over this boy” or “Watch over this, Boy”?

Also the first episode opened with Young Will Reeves watching a movie.

The movie was about the first black US Marshall. Named Bass Reeves.

Will’s grandfather?

[Bama Chick 28596]

I just watched a couple of YouTube videos on the series and one of them mentioned Will Reeves’s letter from his dad and I thought this question they asked was interesting.

Does the letter say “Watch over this boy” or “Watch over this, Boy”?

Also the first episode opened with Young Will Reeves watching a movie.

The movie was about the first black US Marshall. Named Bass Reeves.

Will’s grandfather?

[Augustus 3061]

Curious about the "anniversary" that the clones/bots are celebrating with Ozy.  We've seen two of them now.

[mulletpelini 5214]

 

18 hours ago, Bookman said:

Wonder what he's going to do with the bodies in the basement.

compost for more tomato trees

[Bookman 4639]

5 hours ago, Augustus said:

Curious about the "anniversary" that the clones/bots are celebrating with Ozy.  We've seen two of them now.

I assume it's the squid anniversary. It's a squid cake.

[oSuJeff97 3435]

10 hours ago, Bookman said:

I assume it's the squid anniversary. It's a squid cake.

Ooooh shit.  Also - does that mean that Ozy scene in episodes 1 and 2 are a year apart?  

[Bookman 4639]

1 hour ago, oSuJeff97 said:

Ooooh shit.  Also - does that mean that Ozy scene in episodes 1 and 2 are a year apart?  

No I bet every day is the anniversary.

[mulletpelini 5214]

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by mulletpelini

[oSuJeff97 3435]

Something I caught on a second watch of episode 2.... when Regina King is taking LGJ outside at the end of the episode, the first shot is a POV shot of the top of her car from whatever/whomever "rescued" LGJ.... right after the POV shot, he looks up at the sky and then gives a knowing look, like, "they're here... I guess I'm about to leave..."

This show is so good.

[Goredho 17412]

Just watched ep 2, I’m in.

[hobbes2702 13049]

On 10/28/2019 at 4:23 PM, babysdaddy said:

Has Reznor done a score since the The Social Network?  It is awesome

He scores every Fincher movie.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

On 10/30/2019 at 6:42 PM, Bookman said:

No I bet every day is the anniversary.

Veidt might be in another dimension or time.  Remember there was a report that he was missing. Also tomatoes don’t grow on trees here. Veidt could have some connection to Gossett, Jr, as gossett  knows people in high places and was pulled away by the giant magnet plane. And I do think a year has passed for veidt. in the last episode he was just starting to write his play and now they’re delivering the play.

and if clones are in the mix, who knows if that was really don Johnson hanging from the tree or not.  

love seeing Ellsworth from Deadwood show up as the grandfather, or some relative of the kids. 

[oSuJeff97 3435]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Veidt might be in another dimension or time.  Remember there was a report that he was missing. Also tomatoes don’t grow on trees here. Veidt could have some connection to Gossett, Jr, as gossett  knows people in high places and was pulled away by the giant magnet plane. And I do think a year has passed for veidt. in the last episode he was just starting to write his play and now they’re delivering the play.

and if clones are in the mix, who knows if that was really don Johnson hanging from the tree or not.  

love seeing Ellsworth from Deadwood show up as the grandfather, or some relative of the kids. 

I thought the same thing on my second viewing.

People were already theorizing that Don Johnson was Nite Owl.  There was the newspaper headline that said Veidt was dead in the first episode (IIRC).

So, Veidt used a clone of himself to fake his death and go to wherever he is to put on kickass plays about Dr. Manhattan and create tomato trees - then uses a clone of Don Johnson to fake *his* death and bring him wherever he is?  LGJ is somehow connected?  There is no spoon?

[seven 1367]

He was declared dead after missing for a long time, they didn't find a body or anything. 

I think the supplemental material hbo has put out said nite owl has been in jail since the mid 90's?

Edited November 1, 2019 by seven

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

33 minutes ago, seven said:

He was declared dead after missing for a long time, they didn't find a body or anything. 

I think the supplemental material hbo has put out said nite owl has been in jail since the mid 90's?

At least in the movies, the Nite Owl broke the law by wearing a mask. 

[seven 1367]

Yeah, him and silk spectre 2 were jailed for masking up again. She got out because she agreed to work for the government (enter special agent Laurie Blake) 

[jeevsie 3737]

For clarity's sake - we haven't seen any superpowers in the show yet, correct?

[mdmost 43011]

No but in fairness, the only person with superpowers was Dr Manhattan. The rest were just costume heroes. Veidt would be the closest and that had more to do with using 100% of his brain. The rest were just smart like Nite Owl or physically skilled like Rorschach and Silk Spectre. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by mdmost

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

 

1 hour ago, jeevsie said:

For clarity's sake - we haven't seen any superpowers in the show yet, correct?

 

55 minutes ago, mdmost said:

No but in fairness, the only person with superpowers was Dr Manhattan. The rest were just costume heroes. Veidt would be the closest and that had more to do with using 100% of his brain. The rest were just smart like Nite Owl or physically skilled like Rorschach and Silk Spectre. 

We saw a TV broadcast in the background with Dr Manhattan (or a deep fake video of him) on Mars destroying some castle looking structure. 

All or most of the masked characters seem to possess fighting skills that the non-masked people do not.  But not to the level of comic superpowers.

[bamachine 1231]

BTW, I may be way off on this but I thought that might have been a persimmon, rather than a tomato, that he picked rom the tree. I know it was a little too red but they do grow on trees and look like reddish orange tomatoes.

[Js1 85447]

Ooh oooh oooh Jean Smart is so fantastic 

[hornian 5222]

Well that was a giant blue dildo. 

[hornian 5222]

On 11/1/2019 at 1:59 PM, bamachine said:

BTW, I may be way off on this but I thought that might have been a persimmon, rather than a tomato, that he picked rom the tree. I know it was a little too red but they do grow on trees and look like reddish orange tomatoes.

Yes, you were off on that, the letter tonight made it abundantly clear. 
 

I really like the Veidt story line. I think he set himself up on a sort of escape room of an island/country and he has to escape using his wits and limited technology to do it. Or the person/company who bought his company did that to keep him occupied for years. Whatever is going on, it’s good shit. 

[Michael Knight 12989]

On 10/28/2019 at 8:59 PM, mdmost said:

I don't think he was Nite Owl but that might explain why Silk Spectre returns to investigate his death. Either that or he was given Archie by the original Nite Owl after he and Laurie moved away from crime fighting. I am really enjoying the story moving from costumed heroes to cops who have to wear masks to protect themselves. I think the Klan outfit was misdirection. That might've been Judd's father's Klan outfit as he tries to reconcile with his past. He's obviously the boy in the picture that was on his desk. Then again, he could've been the 2nd shooter in Angela's house. 

Rorscash was basically a fuck you to Steven Ditko from Alan Moore

[Augustus 3061]

That episode was fantastic.

[Js1 85447]

7 hours ago, hornian said:

Yes, you were off on that, the letter tonight made it abundantly clear. 
 

I really like the Veidt story line. I think he set himself up on a sort of escape room of an island/country and he has to escape using his wits and limited technology to do it. Or the person/company who bought his company did that to keep him occupied for years. Whatever is going on, it’s good shit. 

I think he’s on Mars or the moon. Perhaps Dr. Manhattan created a place for him on Mars and is guarding him 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

That could make sense, given that he was making a spacesuit looking thing.

[mdmost 43011]

I think it's more he's at the ends of the Earth somewhere. The comic made it very clear that Dr Manhattan was done with being involved with humanity. 

That was a great yet weird episode. Feels like Senator Bob from Mad Men is behind the 7th Kalvary stuff. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by mdmost

[Js1 85447]

100%.  The whole bomb thing felt very planned.  Like he knew he wasn't going to be in danger by going with the guy - he volunteered so quickly considering how many cops were there. 

And he's definitely using it for his presidential run.  

Edited November 4, 2019 by Js1

[A-Tex Devil 2451]

I was thinking -- if this show continues on this pace of quality, Lindelof has found himself a nice little niche -- continuation of popular literary materials.  Leftovers Season 1 was good, but far inferior to 2 and 3, which were extensions of the source material that 1 was based on.  Watchmen is an extension of source material from the very beginning.  Someone give him Handmaids Tale so he can course correct.

I enjoyed the episode.  It seemed obvious Senator is tied to 7th Kavalry in some way.  It might as well have been Sheriff Bart pulling the gun on himself to escape the stage in Blazing Saddles.  I liked the misdirect of Laurie shooting him anyway. 

- I agree with Veidt theory above that he is in some kind of prison not on earth/not in this dimension.  

- Senator Keene-- related to Keene Act I presume.  They haven't gotten into that in much detail yet.

- Nice callout of the motel - Black Freighter Inn, or somesuch....

I'll spoil this question in case it screws up a reveal to folks that haven't read/seen original.  

Spoiler

I am just starting comic and haven't seen movie in ten years.  Was it well know that Laurie's dad was the Comedian?  I didn't remember that, but perhaps I just forgot.  I thought she went by "Jupiter" or the original Polish surname in the comic/movie.

 

[mdmost 43011]

30 minutes ago, A-Tex Devil said:

 

  Hide contents

I am just starting comic and haven't seen movie in ten years.  Was it well know that Laurie's dad was the Comedian?  I didn't remember that, but perhaps I just forgot.  I thought she went by "Jupiter" or the original Polish surname in the comic/movie.

 

 

Blake is her father's name. It was revealed when the Comedian was her father when she was on Mars with Dr Manhattan.  Her and Nite Owl changed their names at the end of the comic. I guess she went to her father's name when she joined the FBI. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by mdmost