HBO's Watchmen series

[oSuJeff97 3435]

On 12/3/2019 at 8:48 PM, T’Boo Ted Marshall said:

Maybe the ring in his head was blocking him from remembering who he really is.

Good call! 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

Did Manhattan state his "life" ends or just that there is a tragedy? I can't recall.

[NOMAAA 1696]

said their relationship lasted 10 years and ended in tragedy.

[hornian 5222]

28 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Did Manhattan state his "life" ends or just that there is a tragedy? I can't recall.

He also says they are going to transport him against his will and destroy him. 
 

However he’s already been destroyed, twice. Once as Jon Osterman (in the original accident) and once as Dr. Manhattan (by Adrian Veidt). He came back both times. It’s one of the best quotes from the book, along the lines of “if it didn’t destroy Jon Osterman; why would it destroy Dr. Manhattan.” 
 

So even if the 7th Kalvary does succeed in destroying him, I doubt he stays destroyed. 

[Rougarou 594]

Good episode, not great like some of you guys seem to think.

[NOMAAA 1696]

16 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

Good episode, not great like some of you guys seem to think.

haha.  solid post.

[Rougarou 594]

2 hours ago, NOMAAA said:

haha.  solid post.

I think you are making fun of me, but I don’t experience posts like you do. I’m texting you right now, 6 months ago about this episode being good but not great.

[52-80 19205]

this show has  lot of dong

[Pato del Muerto 52535]

I’ll play along, but I don’t like timeline plots because of the paradoxes that arise. 

DM talks about the future he is experiencing as if it cannot be changed. Angela will have dinner with him, they will be together for 10 years, etc. either that or he is manipulating the timeline to go where he chooses. 
 

I need to watch the ep again, as I’m still a bit confused about how he knows Angela is will’s granddaughter, and when he tells will what’s going on such that Angela can have drm ask about the robe, and why he does it and allows for future events to affect the past. 

[sidis 9832]

26 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I’ll play along, but I don’t like timeline plots because of the paradoxes that arise. 

DM talks about the future he is experiencing as if it cannot be changed. Angela will have dinner with him, they will be together for 10 years, etc. either that or he is manipulating the timeline to go where he chooses. 
 

I need to watch the ep again, as I’m still a bit confused about how he knows Angela is will’s granddaughter, and when he tells will what’s going on such that Angela can have drm ask about the robe, and why he does it and allows for future events to affect the past. 

because from his perspective, it is all happening at the same time and what must be is inevitable.

[52-80 19205]

man, what a good episode to tie all the loose ends from the last few

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

Yes, it's difficult to think through all of the possibilities of how time is impacted if someone basically experienced everything from ~1955-2009, 2019+ at the same moment.  

If that is the truth, then this creates some inconsistencies in the movie since DM learns things throughout the movie that he didn't know earlier in the movie.  If the TV show is correct, then basically if he learns someone in the future, then his past knows it as well. In the movie, he should have know what Adrian would eventually do since he (DM) experiences it.

[Dark Horse 2284]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Yes, it's difficult to think through all of the possibilities of how time is impacted if someone basically experienced everything from ~1955-2009, 2019+ at the same moment.  

If that is the truth, then this creates some inconsistencies in the movie since DM learns things throughout the movie that he didn't know earlier in the movie.  If the TV show is correct, then basically if he learns someone in the future, then his past knows it as well. In the movie, he should have know what Adrian would eventually do since he (DM) experiences it.

In the comic, and I’m pretty sure in the movie, his perception of time is affected by the tachyons. That’s why he wasn’t aware of Ozy’s plan. His perception of time in the movie is consistent with the TV show. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

3 hours ago, Dark Horse said:

In the comic, and I’m pretty sure in the movie, his perception of time is affected by the tachyons. That’s why he wasn’t aware of Ozy’s plan. His perception of time in the movie is consistent with the TV show. 

I was thinking more that he didn’t know that comedians was lauries father.  Later he discovered it, but wouldn’t that mean he knew that before as well?

Edited December 10, 2019 by Nice Guy Eddie

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2652]

13 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Oxy and his punishment, and how he can potentially escape. The cake makes an appearance with what I think was 7 candles. Previously it was mentioned that he disappeared 7 years from the main story timeline so the cake would represent that his story is now caught up. Sets it up that the comet crashing to earth may be him.

who eats a egg made by Dr. M? Angela, Senator Joe? 

 

22 hours ago, hornian said:

Dr. Manhattan said he could put his powers into some organic matter, and a person could ingest that matter and absorb his powers. 

This whole season has a theme with eggs. 

He told Angela to watch the eggs in the kitchen he was making waffles, but she crushed them. 

That has to be a Chekhov’s Gun. He put his powers in an egg. Who is going to eat it and become the new Dr. Manhattan?

Angela seems too obvious. I doubt it is actually Bob Benson, I mean Senator Bob Benson. 

My money’s on Will Reeves. 

I bet it’s his oldest adopted son. Remember he was doing something crazy with the castle Toy thing earlier?  Maybe after he gets his Powers he will always have had his powers?  Time is a flat circle and all that jazz  

[Augustus 3061]

7 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I’ll play along, but I don’t like timeline plots because of the paradoxes that arise. 

DM talks about the future he is experiencing as if it cannot be changed. Angela will have dinner with him, they will be together for 10 years, etc. either that or he is manipulating the timeline to go where he chooses. 
 

The paradoxes are fascinating, but only seem impossible when you think of time as linear, as we experience it.

And you're right:  It's impossible for anyone/anything to have knowledge of future of events without the universe being completely deterministic.  If the future can unfold differently, then he didn't "know" what would occur.

At least, I've never been able to think my way out of that unavoidable conclusion.  And I've tried.  

If the multiverse really exists, and everything possible actually does happen, then it doesn't matter anyway.  Because it all happens.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Augustus

[Augustus 3061]

And I couldn't agree more with mdmost.

The writing isn't just really good, it's outstanding.

[52-80 19205]

7 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Yes, it's difficult to think through all of the possibilities of how time is impacted if someone basically experienced everything from ~1955-2009, 2019+ at the same moment.  

If that is the truth, then this creates some inconsistencies in the movie since DM learns things throughout the movie that he didn't know earlier in the movie.  If the TV show is correct, then basically if he learns someone in the future, then his past knows it as well. In the movie, he should have know what Adrian would eventually do since he (DM) experiences it.

DMs deterministically/fatalistic loophole is that it's already happened (and happening at the same time).  What he knows in the (linear) past, because he learned it from the (linear) future, already happened.  Therefore he already knew it in the past

It's a convenient loophole

[Bookman 4639]

On 12/8/2019 at 9:14 PM, NOMAAA said:

Assume it was remotely 

On re-watch Dr. Manhattan didn't obliterate the guy behind the cannon. He just fell down and later got back up.

[Helobious 9464]

I'm really, really loving this show. That horseshoe/cake callback was fantastic. 

[Lurch 5931]

I'm really, really loving this show. That horseshoe/cake callback was fantastic. 

I missed this. What was the significance of the horseshoe

[Helobious 9464]

7 hours ago, Lurch said:

 

I missed this. What was the significance of the horseshoe

 

First episode, first scene we meet Veidt. His servants give him a cake and a horseshoe to cut the cake with. Veidt gets frustrated & says “this is a horseshoe, not a knife”. It was the first hint that something was off with his servants, in addition to just being super random.

[seven 1367]

1 hour ago, Helobious said:

First episode, first scene we meet Veidt. His servants give him a cake and a horseshoe to cut the cake with. Veidt gets frustrated & says “this is a horseshoe, not a knife”. It was the first hint that something was off with his servants, in addition to just being super random.

I believe he also says "I don't need that yet". I'm probably getting confused though 

Edited December 11, 2019 by seven

[Message Board User 12395]

Still not yet renewed for a second season.

[RPM 26327]

5 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Still not yet renewed for a second season.

There's about a zero percent chance it doesn't get renewed.

[seven 1367]

I heard on a podcast that Lindelof has said this is supposed to be a self contained season and didn't have plans for additional seasons and if there are additional seasons he doesn't think he'll be involved. 

[Js1 85449]

4 minutes ago, seven said:

I heard on a podcast that Lindelof has said this is supposed to be a self contained season and didn't have plans for additional seasons and if there are additional seasons he doesn't think he'll be involved. 

Yup. He’s finishing his story In 9 episodes. If someone else wants to continue he’s ok with that 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

It did say season finale and not series finale on the preview for episode 9, so we will see.

[Lurch 5931]

Somebody is about to get paid.

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

One thing that has stood out to me is that Dr. M seems resigned to his fate. No urgency at all to save himself from the 7K. He only intervenes to save Angela. 

It’s been pointed out on podcasts that Dr. M constantly feels the pain and fear of his creation. He also feels all of his emotions, all the time, all at once. This doesn’t seem like a very enjoyable existence. Maybe he wants to die? 

Fogdancer is about a super solider that constantly feels regret and sorrow about his actions during the Vietnam War. It’s thesis:  the only escape is death.

Also one more small thing, I didn’t see a man behind the canon immediately before or after it captured Dr. M. Maybe it was locked on to him and set to fire automatically? 

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

1 hour ago, Lurch said:

Somebody is about to get paid.

I think the showrunner Damon Lindelof is being sincere when he says he just wants to do one season. Right this minute, he probably is done. 

He’s expressed regret at how long Lost went on. He’s also a Watchmen super fan that wrote a lengthy letter to the fans explaining his motives. 

I do agree that HBO is going to back the Brinks truck up for him.

Something that’a been hinted at is an anthology like show. Theoretically, Season 2 would be Watchmen, but with completely different characters. The Minute Men source material would make sense, but I’m not sure Lindelof would do a period piece set in the 30s and 40s. The Comedian in Vietnam would also be a darned good show, but again period piece. Maybe Lindelof’s writing partner Jeff Jensen would be interested? Lindelof has said repeatedly that Jensen is a much bigger Watchmen fan than even himself. Jensen would be jumping from writing Lost recaps to running a show. It would be a huge leap, but everybody starts somewhere. 

I think Lindelof is a really bright guy that will have plenty of opportunities to do whatever he wants creatively. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by billfromlaketravis

[Pato del Muerto 52535]

37 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

One thing that has stood out to me is that Dr. M seems resigned to his fate. No urgency at all to save himself from the 7K. He only intervenes to save Angela. 

It’s been pointed out on podcasts that Dr. M constantly feels the pain and fear of his creation. He also feels all of his emotions, all the time, all at once. This doesn’t seem like a very enjoyable existence. Maybe he wants to die? 

Fogdancer is about a super solider that constantly feels regret and sorrow about his actions during the Vietnam War. It’s thesis:  the only escape is death.

Also one more small thing, I didn’t see a man behind the canon immediately before or after it captured Dr. M. Maybe it was locked on to him and set to fire automatically? 

But as Angela points out, why would he have fear since he knows what happens from the time of his accident until his destruction, minus the decade as cal. And normally I’d say the missing decade would be filled in by learning of things afterward, but it seems so far that his destruction might be right after he “wakes up,” in which case he probably knows very little about the last 10 years of his life. 

[billfromlaketravis 11520]

9 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

But as Angela points out, why would he have fear since he knows what happens from the time of his accident until his destruction, minus the decade as cal. And normally I’d say the missing decade would be filled in by learning of things afterward, but it seems so far that his destruction might be right after he “wakes up,” in which case he probably knows very little about the last 10 years of his life. 

My understanding is that Dr. M experiences   everything all at once. The future, the past, and the present. When he feels fear in the present, he’s experiencing his creation in 1959. 

[NOMAAA 1696]

would be totally ok with him doing this as one season and starting another new series next season. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13515]

I’m not ok with the series ending the season. I doubt all of the stories will be wrapped up.

[52-80 19205]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I’m not ok with the series ending the season. I doubt all of the stories will be wrapped up.

ozymandias teleports a gigantic blue dong on tulsa oklahoma and it kills everyone on the planet

[Js1 85449]

32 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

ozymandias teleports a gigantic blue dong on tulsa oklahoma and it kills everyone on the planet

[seven 1367]

Dr manhattan also experiences all of his orgasms through life simultaneously, so he's got that going for him 

[BrazilHorn 6623]

On 12/9/2019 at 2:49 PM, 52-80 said:

this show has  lot of dong

This. Great show but when you see the “Nudity” advisory at start of episode be aware that 90% of it is dong or dude’s asses. NTTIAWWT. 
 

But if you’re expecting  gratuitous boob shots a la “Game of Thrones” you’ll be sorely disappointed. 
 

I dig the Looking Glass character, my favorite part of the show by far. Keep waiting for him to start breaking out in song. 

[ABSR 5319]

5 hours ago, NOMAAA said:

would be totally ok with him doing this as one season and starting another new series next season. 

He could do it like the different Fargo TV series.

[Nuge 1970]

Don't have much to add other than I really enjoy having "whoa, holy shit!" moments when watching a show.

Thank you HBO - now, don't fuck this up.

[Js1 85449]

2 hours ago, Nuge said:

Don't have much to add other than I really enjoy having "whoa, holy shit!" moments when watching a show.

Thank you HBO - now, don't fuck this up.

That was also my reaction when I saw Cal's penis. 

[Buzzrock 14935]

Cal could also have been killed in the accident in Vietnam. Real Cal might be dead.

Boom!

[Buzzrock 14935]

That was also my reaction when I saw Cal's penis. 

Dr M can do a lot of impressive things, but being hung like that in the arctic might be the most impressive.

I’d look like I had two bellybuttons.

[Buzzrock 14935]

How come no one knows what Veidt did at the end of the book/movie? Wasn’t that in Rorshach’s journal?

[mdmost 43011]

2 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

How come no one knows what Veidt did at the end of the book/movie? Wasn’t that in Rorshach’s journal?

The only people who knew were Dr Manhattan, Rorschach, Nite Owl, and Laurie. Rorschach mailed his journal off to a conspiracy paper. So it's out there but no one believes the lunatic fringe. Veidt's confession to President Redford is the only reason anyone else would know. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by mdmost

[Augustus 3061]

There are so many great moments in this series, but one of my favorites so far was Veidt in the boat, pulling babies from the water.  Looks one over, and with some exasperation just tosses it back in the lake.

Struck my funny bone I guess, because I rarely have genuine LOL moments watching anything.

[Jojen 31]

5 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

How come no one knows what Veidt did at the end of the book/movie? Wasn’t that in Rorshach’s journal?

Rorschach sent his journal before traveling to Veidt’s lair with the others, so the it could only contain whatever he had figured out up to that point.

[hornian 5222]

10 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

How come no one knows what Veidt did at the end of the book/movie? Wasn’t that in Rorshach’s journal?

Uh, did you miss the part where the US Government knows? And basically all the 7th kalvary because of Bob Benson? And Looking Glass now?

[Buzzrock 14935]

Uh, did you miss the part where the US Government knows? And basically all the 7th kalvary because of Bob Benson? And Looking Glass now?

I meant the general public. The implication at the end of the book and film was that R’s journal would bring everything to light. I think they knew Veidt was up to something before they headed to Antarctica or they wouldn’t have gone.