ECF: Bucks vs Raptors

[Brothahorn 10087]

Watched that live. It was awkward as fuck. Even Middleton was like "what the fuck dude?!?!" I wonder if something was lost in translation and heard something other than the question asked because that reaction was totally out of character for Giannis. And Malika Andrews, god damn!!!

Maybe G doesn’t like females talking basketball.

[PittsburghTiger 6210]

It will be insufferable watching that Drake guy get almost as much TV time as the players. 

Just stop! 

[ztejas 43552]

3 hours ago, aggie08 said:

"Dynasty" was a poor word choice. But popular thought--including my own--was, "Wow, they're already this good, and they're only going to get better. They may not win it this year, but they'll be around for awhile."

They still may be. Giannis's work ethic is undeniable, so he'll put up the shots this offseason. But man, locking yourself into a Giannis/Bledsoe/Middleton core has to be pretty scary. Will they also match what someone else offers Brogdon and completely eat up their cap?

I've been saying all season that I don't think that Bledsoe and Middleton are particularly good--certainly not All-Star caliber if the selections weren't divided by conference--but I thought that the Bucks were better than the sum of their parts and could compete for championships for years to come. This series showed that they're missing another playmaker desperately.

Yeah they aren't winning shit with Bledsoe imo. But they have some good pieces and building around Giannis ain't exactly hard. 

[Huckleberry 33119]

3 hours ago, aggie08 said:

"Dynasty" was a poor word choice. But popular thought--including my own--was, "Wow, they're already this good, and they're only going to get better. They may not win it this year, but they'll be around for awhile."

They still may be. Giannis's work ethic is undeniable, so he'll put up the shots this offseason. But man, locking yourself into a Giannis/Bledsoe/Middleton core has to be pretty scary. Will they also match what someone else offers Brogdon and completely eat up their cap?

I've been saying all season that I don't think that Bledsoe and Middleton are particularly good--certainly not All-Star caliber if the selections weren't divided by conference--but I thought that the Bucks were better than the sum of their parts and could compete for championships for years to come. This series showed that they're missing another playmaker desperately.

I don't watch much Eastern Conference basketball, but Giannis looked like a player I would not want to build a championship team around if I was running a team. No outside shot and when the playoffs came and defenses were quicker to help and more intensely focused he would frequently get into the lane with no idea what he was going to do. Then an awkward half-hearted step back mid-range one-handed shot that barely drew or didn't even draw iron was the result way too often.

Basically what I'm saying is they're actually missing a primary playmaker in playoff crunch time. I admit I didn't watch much of him all season, but what I saw in the playoffs did not look like a leader on a championship team.

[Zavala 1384]

14 hours ago, C-Man said:

Feel dirty that I have to root for GS in the Finals

Sorry my phone won't delete the quote.

Anyway above poster is right. Greek Freak isn't going to 'develop' a jumper. He's tall Russell Westbrook.

[Kermit 3159]

42 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I don't watch much Eastern Conference basketball, but Giannis looked like a player I would not want to build a championship team around if I was running a team. No outside shot and when the playoffs came and defenses were quicker to help and more intensely focused he would frequently get into the lane with no idea what he was going to do. Then an awkward half-hearted step back mid-range one-handed shot that barely drew or didn't even draw iron was the result way too often.

Basically what I'm saying is they're actually missing a primary playmaker in playoff crunch time. I admit I didn't watch much of him all season, but what I saw in the playoffs did not look like a leader on a championship team.

I don’t know that he has a midrange shot. It’s bizarre, his lack of shooting prowess even 15 feet from the basket. 

[PittsburghTiger 6210]

That was just about unwatchable at the end. The final 30 seconds took about 25 minutes. Horrible.

[SilasCoade 2622]

Disagree with everyone doubting Giannis's ability to improve his shooting. His shot looks fundamentally sound. He's clearly put a priority of developing his body and physical dominance the past couple of years, but it's not like he's Dennis Rodman out there.

[Brothahorn 10087]

I don't watch much Eastern Conference basketball, but Giannis looked like a player I would not want to build a championship team around if I was running a team. No outside shot and when the playoffs came and defenses were quicker to help and more intensely focused he would frequently get into the lane with no idea what he was going to do. Then an awkward half-hearted step back mid-range one-handed shot that barely drew or didn't even draw iron was the result way too often.
Basically what I'm saying is they're actually missing a primary playmaker in playoff crunch time. I admit I didn't watch much of him all season, but what I saw in the playoffs did not look like a leader on a championship team.

Some of his struggles was due to a horrible offense. Putting him in the middle of the floor, having a stagnant offense that allowed Toronto to basically zone up at times didn’t help.

[Beau Vine 54471]

3 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

That was just about unwatchable at the end. The final 30 seconds took about 25 minutes. Horrible.

Can someone explain to me what the referees feel the need to run across the floor after a review and explain the situation to the TV crew?  They did it so many times last night that Webber quit standing up to hear.

Why wouldn't they just grab the PA mic and announce it to the whole crowd in the arena?

[totallynotabuttpirate 5406]

1 minute ago, Beau Vine said:

Can someone explain to me what the referees feel the need to run across the floor after a review and explain the situation to the TV crew?  They did it so many times last night that Webber quit standing up to hear.

Why wouldn't they just grab the PA mic and announce it to the whole crowd in the arena?

Pro and college football definitely have the best system here. 

[C-Man 27286]

6 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

I don't watch much Eastern Conference basketball, but Giannis looked like a player I would not want to build a championship team around if I was running a team. No outside shot and when the playoffs came and defenses were quicker to help and more intensely focused he would frequently get into the lane with no idea what he was going to do. Then an awkward half-hearted step back mid-range one-handed shot that barely drew or didn't even draw iron was the result way too often.

Basically what I'm saying is they're actually missing a primary playmaker in playoff crunch time. I admit I didn't watch much of him all season, but what I saw in the playoffs did not look like a leader on a championship team.

I was thinking the same thing. Don't see him much -- if at all -- other than the eye-popping stats. Kawhi is already an alpha dog -- wonder if Giannis ever gets there.

[Message Board User 12396]

Just about everything that is being said now about Giannis was said about Lebron when he was 24.

All that's missing is someone chiming in about Greek Freak's missing clutch gene.

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

When LeBron was 24 he attempted 4.7 3PA/gm and he hit .344%. He also already had a pretty decent and good looking shot from inside the arc, and was already a transcendent player who had the passing ability and court vision of Magic Johnson.

Giannis meanwhile takes 2.8 3PA/gm hitting them at a.256% clip. He also does not have a good/reliable jumper from anywhere really, and also lacks LBJ's athleticism, hang time, finishing ability, and all-time great court vision/passing skills. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Goo Punch

[conVINCEd 21473]

Has anybody in NBA history gone from being a bad shooter to an above average shooter?  Particularly big guys.  Most big guys who can shoot have that as their most valued attribute entering the league, and teams think they can pack some weight on them over time and teach them how to play defense. People think of shooting as a skill, but there is a talent element to it that can’t be taught.  There’s a reason Dell Curry’s offspring can both shoot.

[Goo Punch 4275]

2 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

Has anybody in NBA history gone from being a bad shooter to an above average shooter?  Particularly big guys.  Most big guys who can shoot have that as their most valued attribute entering the league, and teams think they can pack some weight on them over time and teach them how to play defense. People think of shooting as a skill, but there is a talent element to it that can’t be taught.  There’s a reason Dell Curry’s offspring can both shoot.

Jason Kidd is the first one who comes to mind, but he's obviously a guard. 

[conVINCEd 21473]

Kidd was the first that popped into my mind as well.  I have not followed Brook Lopez’s career in any meaningful way, but I get the impression he stepped up his shooting game later in his career.  But after that I can’t think of anyone else.

[Hate 20149]

Has anybody in NBA history gone from being a bad shooter to an above average shooter?  Particularly big guys.  Most big guys who can shoot have that as their most valued attribute entering the league, and teams think they can pack some weight on them over time and teach them how to play defense. People think of shooting as a skill, but there is a talent element to it that can’t be taught.  There’s a reason Dell Curry’s offspring can both shoot.

Hakeem wasn’t a great shooter when he entered the league, but he was a great shooter after a few years. It was a completely different era though.

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 hour ago, conVINCEd said:

Kidd was the first that popped into my mind as well.  I have not followed Brook Lopez’s career in any meaningful way, but I get the impression he stepped up his shooting game later in his career.  But after that I can’t think of anyone else.

PJ Tucker should have immediately come to my mind,  but to be fair I had just woken up. That said, Lopez is a good example of what's becoming a new trend: you want to stick around in the NBA? Be able to hit catch-and-shoot threes. Lopez averaged something like 0.1 3PA for like the first 7+ years of his career or something. He started shooting threes in LA, continued in Brooklyn, and now has found the perfect home in Milwaukee. Completely turned his career trajectory around almost overnight.

BTW The only reason I even know this stuff is because 3PM is a category in the shaggy fantasy league, so it's my job to know who hits threes. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Catdaddyhorn 3448]

The bigman who comes into the league without the ability to shoot,  but develops into a decent shooter fits the description of just about every successful big man not named Shaq or Dirk over the last 30 years. Hakeem, the Admiral, Ewing, Mourning, Garnet, etc. They all developed into plus shooters by the end of their careers.

Giannis shot around 12% from 3 for nearly the first half of the season. So the 26% 3pt% he ended the year with represents a significant improvement over the last half of the year. Dude is only 24 and picked up basketball much later than his counterparts in the league, so his growth curve and room for improvement even at his current age is difficult to predict. I’d probably stay away from making definitive assessments of what he can’t do. 

Needless to say he never spent one second in the D league. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Catdaddyhorn

[Catdaddyhorn 3448]

I actually thought Giannis was the guy who Fran Fraschilla famously predicted on draft night “is 2 years away from being 2 years away”,but turns it was some Bruno guy drafted by Toronto. But Giannis was just as raw and unrefined coming into the league. His predraft videos were hilariously amateurish. Dude looked like he was playing in the equivalent of a YMCA rec league. So all the prediction and comments about him being a wasted first round pick weren’t as ridiculous then as they look now.

[Message Board User 12396]

1 hour ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

I actually thought Giannis was the guy who Fran Fraschilla famously predicted on draft night “is 2 years away from being 2 years away”,but turns it was some Bruno guy drafted by Toronto. But Giannis was just as raw and unrefined coming into the league. His predraft videos were hilariously amateurish. Dude looked like he was playing in the equivalent of a YMCA rec league. So all the prediction and comments about him being a wasted first round pick weren’t as ridiculous then as they look now.

Troof.

That was the Anthony Bennett draft and I lol at the douchebags who claim that the Cavs should've drafted Giannis.  Well no shit Mr Hindsight, but nobody had Giannis going in the top 10 at the time and some thought he was undraftable.  If I remember right, he was averaging something like 4 points a game in what wasn't even the best league in Greece.  And you are correct - Some of the highlights they showed seemed like he was going against 5'9" dudes at the local rec center.

To cut this short since I'm half-drunk from a memorial day cookout, he still has a lot of room to grow - again, 6 years ago he was in the Greece 3rd division while Kawhi was in the NBA Finals (and choking that year).  So give it time and I think you'll see similar improvement to Kawhi as long as he keeps his head on straight and avoids the Kardashians.

All the morons who are saying "Well, the Bucks may need to blow it up and start over" or "Giannis isn't a guy you can build around" should take up self-flagellation as a hobby.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Message Board User

[Goo Punch 4275]

Isn't Jimmy Butler a FA? That's the kind of player the Bucks need, for the exact same reasons the Sixers need him. 

[Kermit 3159]

Essentially. He’s got a player option next season, but he’s chasing a max. 

[Catdaddyhorn 3448]

Jimmy Butler has the type of tenacity and overall will you love to have, but his ball stopper playing style isn't really something that will work well in Milwaukee IMO. Jimmy would be perfect in Houston where all they do is ISO and as long as you can knock down the 3 at a 35+% clip they're good with it. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

1 hour ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Jimmy Butler has the type of tenacity and overall will you love to have, but his ball stopper playing style isn't really something that will work well in Milwaukee IMO. Jimmy would be perfect in Houston where all they do is ISO and as long as you can knock down the 3 at a 35+% clip they're good with it. 

he's shown he has the ability to adapt in Philly, but more importantly he gave the Sixers a legit all-around scoring threat/perimeter player that they needed so badly at the end of games in the playoffs. that's where Butler came up huge more than a couple times for a Philly team that was *this* close to knocking Toronto out of the playoffs. He's definitely have a learning curve in that system just like he did in Philly, but there's a reason that everyone is saying, "Philly better hope they re-sign Butler after just half a season. He got up to speed more quickly than I thought he would, and he was ready to go in the playoffs. If Milwaukee had a legit second scoring threat like him I think they could get over the hump.

[Goo Punch 4275]

but also i don't know shit about the NBA so what I'm suggesting might be stupid. 

[LTtxfan 49378]

8 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Isn't Jimmy Butler a FA? That's the kind of player the Bucks need, for the exact same reasons the Sixers need him. 

Some talk that Lakers might consider Jimmy Butler  if Unibrow, Kyrie, Kawhi or KD don't end up as Lakers.