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Posted

Pierbattista Pizzaballa is literally the most fun sequence of nine syllables I can possibly imagine in human linguistic expression.

that is fucking awesome.

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Posted
6 hours ago, Js1 said:

As always, progress is slow. Which angers people who want things done faster. Which usually leads to massive backlash 

Big ships take a long time to turn around.

Is there such a thing as a large business, organization, or government that doesn't have some type/level of corruption?

Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Bevo&Pevo said:

Big ships take a long time to turn around.

Is there such a thing as a large business, organization, or government that doesn't have some type/level of corruption?

Churches and religious organizations are held to a higher standard, particularly when it comes to legal and ethical considerations.

Edited by Harrison Stafford
Posted
7 hours ago, Hermanator said:

Possibly, but they could see the far right movement globally as a chance to restock the flock. 

This coming age of suffering once the leadership tanks the US and world economies is ripe for this stuff taking advantage. Religion always does it's best work during times of suffering when people are mentally defeated and emotionally vulnerable. It's why people always become super Christian or Islamic in prisons. 

Let's just say that a lot of those movements globally are not happy with the number of non-white members of the Catholic Church, and don't want to be around that.  Francis's impact will be felt for a long time to come, as GOLL mentioned, but I doubt they are swinging towards the Nazis (as imamac mentioned).

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Posted
“It’s not a crime. Yes, but it’s a sin,” he said. “Fine, but first let’s distinguish between a sin and a crime.”
“It’s also a sin to lack charity with one another,” he added.

Sin isn't real. Smash away Surly gays.
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Posted
31 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Let's just say that a lot of those movements globally are not happy with the number of non-white members of the Catholic Church, and don't want to be around that.  Francis's impact will be felt for a long time to come, as GOLL mentioned, but I doubt they are swinging towards the Nazis (as imamac mentioned).

It goes right back to asses in seats and coins in the coffers. 

You might get a slight uptick of some racist folks in the US going back to Catholic Church, maybe a bit in Europe in a couple of countries. However, you aren't getting Methodist, Baptist, Scientists or snake dancers converting, and the numbers there would be vastly offset by losses in Africa, Asia, Central and South America. That lean into the Nazi make zero business sense and there is plenty of negative shit you can say about the Catholic Church but a lack very basic level demographics and complete lack of basic business sense aren't two of them. No upside and a massive downside.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

It goes right back to asses in seats and coins in the coffers. 

You might get a slight uptick of some racist folks in the US going back to Catholic Church, maybe a bit in Europe in a couple of countries. However, you aren't getting Methodist, Baptist, Scientists or snake dancers converting, and the numbers there would be vastly offset by losses in Africa, Asia, Central and South America. That lean into the Nazi make zero business sense and there is plenty of negative shit you can say about the Catholic Church but a lack very basic level demographics and complete lack of basic business sense aren't two of them. No upside and a massive downside.

Nazism feels like an overstatement here but a rightward swing towards authoritarianism is clearly having its moment at various levels including the catholic church. See my post above about the US College of Bishops supporting Oklahoma's attempt to open a public catholic charter school using public funds. There is also liberalization in some of the protestant denominations, particularly with women and gays, and I know of people who have converted to Catholicism specifically because they like the old rules and the high unliklihood that the doctrines on those issues will ever change. As far as racial issues, there is significant segregation among catholic parishes, the Mexicans go to their churches, the whites to theres, Asians have their own parishes, etc., etc., it usually falls in line with population of the areas surrounding the parish. I don't know the demographics on Black catholics but I don't think it's a formidable block in the US. I know it's expanding in Africa, but the rich white folks at the suburban parishes aren't exactly exposed to that at any level.

Edited by 'stache
Posted

Tagie is known as Asian Francis. So no, it would not be some massive backslide or reverse course if he got selected 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

Those are all old dudes. No wonder why they always have to pick another one. 

The betting favorite is 67. He’s a baby compared to most of the list 

Posted
5 hours ago, 'stache said:

Nazism feels like an overstatement here but a rightward swing towards authoritarianism is clearly having its moment at various levels including the catholic church. See my post above about the US College of Bishops supporting Oklahoma's attempt to open a public catholic charter school using public funds. There is also liberalization in some of the protestant denominations, particularly with women and gays, and I know of people who have converted to Catholicism specifically because they like the old rules and the high unliklihood that the doctrines on those issues will ever change. As far as racial issues, there is significant segregation among catholic parishes, the Mexicans go to their churches, the whites to theres, Asians have their own parishes, etc., etc., it usually falls in line with population of the areas surrounding the parish. I don't know the demographics on Black catholics but I don't think it's a formidable block in the US. I know it's expanding in Africa, but the rich white folks at the suburban parishes aren't exactly exposed to that at any level.

I'm not dismissing what you're saying but this NYT Article confirms some of what I was thinking. Catholicism was on a down trend but has stabilized with a shift south and west. That shift is in large part attributed to immigrants in the US, and not white ones. The other is a return of Hispanics to the church.

While the current priest joining may consider themselves less progressive, at least a portion of that can likely be the shift of part the progressive political side to the louder extremes thus altering where they see themselves on spectrum.

Happy to see any data that speaks alternatively to this information.

Posted
13 hours ago, Zepol87 said:

Watched conclave on a flight home yesterday. Good timing 

I was just thinking about this movie, which I too saw on a plane recently, and had the opposite reaction. What bad timing. Had the pope died in the couple of months in the run-up to the Oscars, this movie would have been a must-see and probably gotten a dead pope bump in the academy and voters minds. He dies 6 months later and now a handful of people will watch it on a plane.

Posted
15 hours ago, Harrison Stafford said:

Churches and religious organizations are held to a higher standard, particularly when it comes to legal and ethical considerations.

What fucking planet do you live on, lulz. 

Posted
32 minutes ago, Vegas64 said:

I was just thinking about this movie, which I too saw on a plane recently, and had the opposite reaction. What bad timing. Had the pope died in the couple of months in the run-up to the Oscars, this movie would have been a must-see and probably gotten a dead pope bump in the academy and voters minds. He dies 6 months later and now a handful of people will watch it on a plane.

Have you seen Mikey Madison nude though?

Posted
5 minutes ago, Blotto said:

What fucking planet do you live on, lulz. 

I took that to mean that while religious organizations do not meet those standards, lots of folks expect religious leaders to act more morally - even if they don’t.

You even see it in criminal statues.  There are harsher penalties if the exploiter is in charge of the youth that he or she molests.    It’s like how I would prefer that my politicians do not get caught with a mistress. But I have a different standard if that politician is always banging the familyvalues drum.  Which is not to say it’s OK to cheat on your wife if you’re not a family values Republican, it’s just not as hypocritical as when you are personally posing as a moral example to the public.  

I think that is what he means by saying held to a higher standard.

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Posted
1 minute ago, Gatorubet said:

I think that is what he means by saying held to a higher standard

I guess I just disagree. Thats the beauty of the whole goddamn scam. Leaders of these organizations can fuck around, embezzle money, have affairs, maybe the occasional diddle, and all the believers fall in line once they turn on the water works and claim that their sky fairy has accepted their pleas for forgiveness. CEOs get fired all the time for shit that preachers just giggle about and keep raking in that sweet sweet rube money. Organized religion is a fucking cancer. 

Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Blotto said:

I guess I just disagree. Thats the beauty of the whole goddamn scam. Leaders of these organizations can fuck around, embezzle money, have affairs, maybe the occasional diddle, and all the believers fall in line once they turn on the water works and claim that their sky fairy has accepted their pleas for forgiveness. CEOs get fired all the time for shit that preachers just giggle about and keep raking in that sweet sweet rube money. Organized religion is a fucking cancer. 

Actually, we are not disagreeing.   You look at the issue from the standpoint of members of the congregation or religion.  Your view on that is entirely correct.  I’m looking at it from the standpoint of those who are not members of the congregation or that religion.  there appears to be universal condemnation so long as you are not one of the particular cult members.

 I totally agree with you that Moonies are going to Moonie

Edited by Gatorubet
Posted
12 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

image.thumb.jpeg.8922370bd16f1d809b51f759b0ff8357.jpeg

NYT listed our dude Pizzaballa, Parolin, Erdo, Tagle, Fridolin Ambongo of Congo, Matteo Zuppi of Italy, and Anders Arborelius of Sweden as contenders. No mention of Ouellet or Scola.

Posted
12 hours ago, Kennythetiger said:

Those are all old dudes. No wonder why they always have to pick another one. 

Reading between the lines, kinda seems like that's on purpose. I think they're afraid to appoint someone who would be Pope for like 30 years.

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Posted
7 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Reading between the lines, kinda seems like that's on purpose. I think they're afraid to appoint someone who would be Pope for like 30 years.

Yep, that Pope could amass some serious power, both while he's living, but also over who succeeds him.

Posted
18 minutes ago, tokamak said:

NYT listed our dude Pizzaballa, Parolin, Erdo, Tagle, Fridolin Ambongo of Congo, Matteo Zuppi of Italy, and Anders Arborelius of Sweden as contenders. No mention of Ouellet or Scola.

Maybe a sports betting site isn’t the best informed

Posted
27 minutes ago, tokamak said:

Reading between the lines, kinda seems like that's on purpose. I think they're afraid to appoint someone who would be Pope for like 30 years.

Quote

Since 1900, the average age at election has been 67, and the average age at the end of their papacy has been 78. The youngest in the past 600 years was Pope Leo X, who was 38 at election. The oldest was Pope Gregory XII, who was 81 at election. 

 
per iphone AI

That gives each pope slightly over a decade, on average, to make his mark.

Posted
1 minute ago, Pig Bellmont said:

Maybe a sports betting site isn’t the best informed

I just checked and Ouellet is 80 and Scola is 83. I think technically they could be elected (any Catholic male is eligible), but they won't even be at the conclave so it seems pretty unlikely. So yeah, I don't think I'd be willing to put money on them.

Posted
52 minutes ago, tokamak said:

NYT listed our dude Pizzaballa, Parolin, Erdo, Tagle, Fridolin Ambongo of Congo, Matteo Zuppi of Italy, and Anders Arborelius of Sweden as contenders. No mention of Ouellet or Scola.

 

16 minutes ago, tokamak said:

I just checked and Ouellet is 80 and Scola is 83. I think technically they could be elected (any Catholic male is eligible), but they won't even be at the conclave so it seems pretty unlikely. So yeah, I don't think I'd be willing to put money on them.

Scola?

John-Boyd-Says-Scola-s-a-Different-Perso

Posted
2 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

I took that to mean that while religious organizations do not meet those standards, lots of folks expect religious leaders to act more morally - even if they don’t.

You even see it in criminal statues.  There are harsher penalties if the exploiter is in charge of the youth that he or she molests.    It’s like how I would prefer that my politicians do not get caught with a mistress. But I have a different standard if that politician is always banging the familyvalues drum.  Which is not to say it’s OK to cheat on your wife if you’re not a family values Republican, it’s just not as hypocritical as when you are personally posing as a moral example to the public.  

I think that is what he means by saying held to a higher standard.

Thank you. 

 

2 hours ago, Blotto said:

I guess I just disagree. Thats the beauty of the whole goddamn scam. Leaders of these organizations can fuck around, embezzle money, have affairs, maybe the occasional diddle, and all the believers fall in line once they turn on the water works and claim that their sky fairy has accepted their pleas for forgiveness. CEOs get fired all the time for shit that preachers just giggle about and keep raking in that sweet sweet rube money. Organized religion is a fucking cancer. 

I certainly didn’t make the rules and I’m not saying the rules are right, but more often than not that’s how it be.

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