Car dealership rant

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

I was going through my dad’s stuff after he died at age 90, and I found some receipts for car repairs. He was getting forgetful in his later years, and (thankfully) he stopped driving shortly after these, but fuck the thieving bastards at Maxwell Ford:

1) He got new tires at the Firestone shop in Oak Hill, but Maxwell Ford sold him a new set 5 months/2,000 miles later.

2) The owners manual for his Explorer called for the brake fluid to be “inspected,” yet they charged him for complete fluid changes twice within 12,000 miles when his vehicle only had 50-60K on it. 

There were other charges that may or may not have been legit. He had a deal for free scheduled maintenance when he bought his Explorer, and I’m sure he was thinking at the time that he would be getting free oil and ATF changes for life.

Well, technically, they didn’t charge him for oil changes and transmission flushes. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by ImissWallyPryor
can't spell, can't type

[TrashMaster G 17755]

On the list of the slimiest legal businesses, this one is way up there.

And f the State of Texas for not breaking the dealership structure.  It only contributes to the problem.

[drt 642]

Maxwell is particularly bad, but I haven't had a good experience at a Ford dealer in Austin yet.

[phdhorn 6224]

McMorris used to be pretty good, but they of course went kaput.

But yeah, in Austin... go to Leif Johnson before Maxwell.  For what though I'm not really too sure.  I do go to Maxwell for parts that are only proprietary and they've been good.  But I know what I want and usually know the price beforehand.  Service?  <insert Idi Amin laughing gif>

If anyone goes to a dealership for anything not in warranty though, by now it should be pretty much their fault (not talking about your dad, it was a different time).  Anyone not living in Oklahoma the past ten years should have that etched on their brain.  If they ignore/get taken in, serves 'em right.

[Macanudo 13099]

1 hour ago, TrashMaster G said:

the dealership structure. 

Can you elaborate?   I would like to know more.

[RomaVicta 30121]

I've used that Firestone in Oak Hill twice and think they're pretty good. Anybody else have experience there? 

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

19 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

McMorris used to be pretty good, but they of course went kaput.

But yeah, in Austin... go to Leif Johnson before Maxwell.  For what though I'm not really too sure.  I do go to Maxwell for parts that are only proprietary and they've been good.  But I know what I want and usually know the price beforehand.  Service?  <insert Idi Amin laughing gif>

If anyone goes to a dealership for anything not in warranty though, by now it should be pretty much their fault (not talking about your dad, it was a different time).  Anyone not living in Oklahoma the past ten years should have that etched on their brain.  If they ignore/get taken in, serves 'em right.

+rep for having my favorite avatar

[drt 642]

I was commenting on for just sales experience.  Not for service, that should be a no-brainer to not do that at the dealership.  It seems like any non-premium brand vehicle is a beating trying to sift through the sleaze to just buy a fucking car.

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

1 minute ago, RomaVicta said:

I've used that Firestone in Oak Hill twice and think they're pretty good. Anybody else have experience there? 

I used Firestone near the Y in Oak Hill when I lived in Austin, but that was almost 20 years ago.  They treated me fairly back then, FWIW.

My dad swore by Klingemann Care Care at 5635 W Hwy 290 in Oak Hill.  They sold him the tires before Maxwell pulled their trick, and they gave him a better deal than Maxwell (Gomer Pyle wasn't even surprised).  I used them for some service on his Explorer before I used it to pull a U-Haul halfway across the country, and they were both courteous and reasonable.  They offered me complimentary rides from the shop to his house and back without me even asking, which was nice touch.

[Dennis Taylor 19084]

 

[Underdog 28880]

They didn’t sucker him into the Trucoat, did they? 

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

3 minutes ago, Underdog said:

They didn’t sucker him into the Trucoat, did they? 

Haha, I was doing paperwork to buy our damn van.. with my wife and kids there they STILL sent in their nicely dressed young female "finance consultant" or whatever they called her to sell me on some sort of upolstry protection plan.  And even after I told them I had my own financing they tried to sell me that shit as only $7 a month! (On their bull shit 6% loan) 

 

[tokamak 6463]

Car dealership service departments are the scum of the Earth. All makes, all dealerships. If you have one you think you like, you've just been lucky so far. Give it time.

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

17 minutes ago, Underdog said:

They didn’t sucker him into the Trucoat, did they? 

No, he was with it when he made the purchase.  He always claimed he was half Scotch, half Jew.  Maxwell Ford probably thought he had ripped them off at that point.

Edited May 20, 2019 by ImissWallyPryor

[Judge Roybeanbag 11829]

I assume this wasn't so long ago that it involved the Explorer/Firestone killer fiasco tires?

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

6 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

I assume this wasn't so long ago that it involved the Explorer/Firestone killer fiasco tires?

It wasn't that long ago.  I had a '92 Explorer with Firestone Wilderness AT tires, though.  The Firestone in Oak Hill gave me a new set of tires as part of that recall.

Edited May 20, 2019 by ImissWallyPryor

[RPM 26431]

1 hour ago, phdhorn said:

If anyone goes to a dealership for anything not in warranty though, by now it should be pretty much their fault

I have a friend that is the lead ASE Master Service Tech at a GM dealership. You pretty much quoted him verbatim. The only reason you take a car to a dealer is warranty work.

[Nueces River Rat 5606]

 

First condolences for the passing of your father.  

Have you attempted to contact the dealer?    I'd set up a meeting with the GM or owner of the dealership and show him the documentation with the tires  and then put the ball in their court about a   remedy.  Then if they fail to even give you the time of day,  make them aware you have options at your finger tips which might change their minds.  Especially if this is a fairly recent event.  

 

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

What luck!  I literally just opened a letter that came in the mail today.  It's my dad's last chance to buy an Extended Vehicle Service Plan before the prices increase!  I'll be all over that one.

[Pato del Muerto 52900]

I took a vehicle into a firestone in north Austin once several years ago for an oil change because of a coupon in the mail. Their complimentary inspection “revealed” that I basically needed to replace everything that they sold, from windshield wipers and tires to air filter and fuel injector cleaning. It was the most blatant service upselling I’ve ever experienced. 

[Prepuce of Doom 21123]

Throw one of the tires through their front window, and dump your old brake fluid in front of their main door. 

[immortal13 4059]

2 hours ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

I was going through my dad’s stuff after he died at age 90, and I found some receipts for car repairs. He was getting forgetful in his later years, and (thankfully) he stopped driving shortly after these, but fuck the thieving bastards at Maxwell Ford:

1) He got new tires at the Firestone shop in Oak Hill, but Maxwell Ford sold him a new set 5 months/2,000 miles later.

2) The owners manual for his Explorer called for the brake fluid to be “inspected,” yet they charged him for complete fluid changes twice within 12,000 miles when his vehicle only had 50-60K on it. 

There were other charges that may or may not have been legit. He had a deal for free scheduled maintenance when he bought his Explorer, and I’m sure he was thinking at the time that he would be getting free oil and ATF changes for life.

Well, technically, they didn’t charge him for oil changes and transmission flushes. 

Not to mention they probably sold your dad's nearly new set of tires that they replaced. 

[Rougarou 594]

33 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

It wasn't that long ago.  I had a '92 Explorer with Firestone Wilderness AT tires, though.  The Firestone in Oak Hill gave me a new set of tires as part of that recall.

I had a 1992 Ford Explorer with Firestone's as well. Those were the best tires I've ever had. I practically begged the guy to let me keep them but he had to swap me the new ones.

I still use Firestones (actually Bridgestone's) to this day.

[RDCanecutter 26561]

Are we lookin for restitution, or vengeance?

[hobbes2702 13166]

2 hours ago, drt said:

Maxwell is particularly bad, but I haven't had a good experience at a Ford dealer in Austin yet.

Yep. Had an issue there as well. Agreed on a vehicle and a price. Went to get the cashiers check after paying to hold it until we came back to finish payment. Arrive and the vehicle has been sold.

[hayden_horn 11373]

31 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I took a vehicle into a firestone in north Austin once several years ago for an oil change because of a coupon in the mail. Their complimentary inspection “revealed” that I basically needed to replace everything that they sold, from windshield wipers and tires to air filter and fuel injector cleaning. It was the most blatant service upselling I’ve ever experienced. 

yeah, fuck firestone. i will never go to their business, never never ever again.

it's just full of ripoff artists. i mentioned this once to a discount tire employee, and he told me it's not really their fault. they are incentivized somehow on the upsells, and that forms an essential part of their take home pay. i don't know whether to believe it or not, but he seemed sincere about it.

[hayden_horn 11373]

and another thing: never NEVER go to firestone for an inspection, unless you are willing to buy a full set of tires.

[Gene Parmesan 4024]

Did your dad at least get new tires or did the sell his current tires back to him?

[phdhorn 6224]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

I've used that Firestone in Oak Hill twice and think they're pretty good. Anybody else have experience there? 

 

1 hour ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

I used Firestone near the Y in Oak Hill when I lived in Austin, but that was almost 20 years ago.  They treated me fairly back then, FWIW.

The Firestone places were awful dens of thieves a decade or so ago, but I think they actually had a corporate retool and they redid the one in Oak Hill which I hear is now better. However, I would almost always stay away from Firestone's or especially Lamb's... I the latter will always talk gullible people into buying half a new engine just to replace a bad bolt that it surrounds.

I think that on the other hand, the internet has caused mom-and-pop mechanic shops to get very good for the most part. They are a lot more reputable and fairly priced than before the Net.  Simply because the ones that aren't can go out of business quickly. A couple of good Yelp reviews usually will work.

I fix everything I can possibly fix on my car that doesn't require a lift. A little bit into the process, and you start figuring out logically how stuff fits together and it gets easier and quicker. YouTube is always your friend as well.

[hayden_horn 11373]

21 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

 

The Firestone places were awful dens of thieves a decade or so ago, but I think they actually had a corporate retool and they redid the one in Oak Hill which I hear is now better. However, I would almost always stay away from Firestone's or especially Lamb's... I the latter will always talk gullible people into buying half a new engine just to replace a bad bolt that it surrounds.

I think that on the other hand, the internet has caused mom-and-pop mechanic shops to get very good for the most part. They are a lot more reputable and fairly priced than before the Net.  Simply because the ones that aren't can go out of business quickly. A couple of good Yelp reviews usually will work.

I fix everything I can possibly fix on my car that doesn't require a lift. A little bit into the process, and you start figuring out logically how stuff fits together and it gets easier and quicker. YouTube is always your friend as well.

yeah, you can youtube almost anything, down to exact model specs.

my wife took her new-ish jeep to the dealership before the warranty expired for a looking over. they wanted $400 to help clean the throttle body. my wife is a woman, but she isn't fucking stupid. a little google-fu and i'm done with that job in less than an hour.

i do not understand why the business model in the car industry has to be as sleazy as it is. it's truly bizarre, from the dealerships to the mechanics to the body shops. i don't get it.

[Guest]

They count on people being dumb.

 

Business in booming!

[phdhorn 6224]

15 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i do not understand why the business model in the car industry has to be as sleazy as it is.

There is one simple sentence I think that describes it.  They know that customers don't want to take time shopping, and want to get deals done that day without walking away.

They build everything around that possibility... that customers are likely to say "fuck it, I'm here, I don't want to hassle with this," and break down.

I've always said this and I think it's the #1 axiom in the entire purchase-to-junk process:  if you're willing (and probably expecting) to walk away, you have them by the balls, and you can get what you want at the best price.

That's pretty much it in my experience.  Of course if your car's in the shop and can't run, they kinda have you by the balls (but shame on you for going to a shitty shop unless you had no choice (i.e. towed out of town or something).  But other than that, if you're willing to take a few chops at it and tell them fuck that shit, call me when you're serious, you will get the best price/service/product.  Yeah it sucks that it has to be that way, but most other stuff is too.  Patience is a fucking virtue.

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

11 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

There is one simple sentence I think that describes it.  They know that customers don't want to take time shopping, and want to get deals done that day without walking away.

They build everything around that possibility... that customers are likely to say "fuck it, I'm here, I don't want to hassle with this," and break down.

I've always said this and I think it's the #1 axiom in the entire purchase-to-junk process:  if you're willing (and probably expecting) to walk away, you have them by the balls, and you can get what you want at the best price.

That's pretty much it in my experience.  Of course if your car's in the shop and can't run, they kinda have you by the balls (but shame on you for going to a shitty shop unless you had no choice (i.e. towed out of town or something).  But other than that, if you're willing to take a few chops at it and tell them fuck that shit, call me when you're serious, you will get the best price/service/product.  Yeah it sucks that it has to be that way, but most other stuff is too.  Patience is a fucking virtue.

Lots of industries like this. All that is needed is a few barriers to entry. See 6% RE commissions. 

[4th_and_18 702]

i saw a painfully high bill for a family member recently. I have now volunteered to do all future work at half of what is quoted by the dealership. Just as an example: $400 for new spark plugs and cables. I checked just out of curiosity and every plug is easily accessible and parts at autozone is around $50. fuck those guys. Total bill was around $6000. I was steaming reading through all of it.

Edited May 20, 2019 by 4th_and_18

[hayden_horn 11373]

16 minutes ago, phdhorn said:

There is one simple sentence I think that describes it.  They know that customers don't want to take time shopping, and want to get deals done that day without walking away.

They build everything around that possibility... that customers are likely to say "fuck it, I'm here, I don't want to hassle with this," and break down.

I've always said this and I think it's the #1 axiom in the entire purchase-to-junk process:  if you're willing (and probably expecting) to walk away, you have them by the balls, and you can get what you want at the best price.

That's pretty much it in my experience.  Of course if your car's in the shop and can't run, they kinda have you by the balls (but shame on you for going to a shitty shop unless you had no choice (i.e. towed out of town or something).  But other than that, if you're willing to take a few chops at it and tell them fuck that shit, call me when you're serious, you will get the best price/service/product.  Yeah it sucks that it has to be that way, but most other stuff is too.  Patience is a fucking virtue.

oh, i forgot the time i called lamb's near me and asked how much it would cost to have an alternator replaced. the guy who answered the phone told me "anywhere from $250 - $5k," and gave kind of a not-serious laugh. i hung up on that fucker, and changed the damn thing myself. i had even told him the make/model/year of my car. i understand (believe me) that car projects carry mitigating circumstances, but this was a pretty straight-forward question in my opinion.

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

2 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

Are we lookin for restitution, or vengeance?

You've been speaking with Steel Shank, I see.

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

2 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Did your dad at least get new tires or did the sell his current tires back to him?

Oh, he got brand spankin' new tires.

Edited May 20, 2019 by ImissWallyPryor

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

1 hour ago, 4th_and_18 said:

i saw a painfully high bill for a family member recently. I have now volunteered to do all future work at half of what is quoted by the dealership. Just as an example: $400 for new spark plugs and cables. I checked just out of curiosity and every plug is easily accessible and parts at autozone is around $50. fuck those guys. Total bill was around $6000. I was steaming reading through all of it.

Are you willing to do it for half what an independent shop quotes?  Because they're usually half what the dealership charges, but that's what you may have meant.

[Bullneck 19320]

3 hours ago, Prepuce of Doom said:

Throw one of the tires through their front window, and dump your old brake fluid in front of their main door. 

 

[butthurt 1531]

3 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

yeah, fuck firestone. i will never go to their business, never never ever again.

it's just full of ripoff artists. i mentioned this once to a discount tire employee, and he told me it's not really their fault. they are incentivized somehow on the upsells, and that forms an essential part of their take home pay. i don't know whether to believe it or not, but he seemed sincere about it.

It's been almost 15 years since I turned wrenches, but yes it was. Let's say you bring your car in for an oil change with 30,000 miles, the company recommends an oil flush every 30,000. I would try to upsell the flush and turn a 3/10ths of an hour oil change to an hour oil change and flush, which I would get a full hour of pay for maybe a little over an half an hours worth of work. Plus the additive company we used had tags for the flush and additive that they would buy back from you for a dollar or two.

[Bullneck 19320]

5 hours ago, Macanudo said:

Can you elaborate?   I would like to know more.

This is probably what he's talking about:

 

Quote

By KATIE FEHRENBACHER 

January 19, 2016

Tesla’s strategy of selling its own cars through its own Tesla-branded stores doesn’t sound all that controversial. Gadget makers like Apple (AAPL, -3.11%)have long directly sold their computers, phones, and tablets in shopping malls and downtowns across the country.

However, car dealers and some auto makers oppose Tesla’s sales model and have successfully lobbied a handful of states to block car makers from directly selling cars to customers. In those states, like Texas, Tesla builds showrooms where customers can learn about the cars but can’t buy them in the store.

 

[Deej 77234]

I had a radiator replaced once. Took it back to the same shop for an oil change later that year. Guy comes out and tells me the radiator needs to be flushed.

"The radiator you installed 6 months ago?"

"Oh, sorry. I was looking at the wrong car."

Sure, buddy.

[Gil Bang 26101]

I changed the cabin air filter on the GF's old car (we have since bought a different car).  She took the car to jiffy lube for an oil change.  The guy tells her she's due for a cabin air filter. 

Fortunately, she called me to ask before saying yes .

[next2naus 439]

Big BIll Hells

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Nueces River Rat 5606]

9 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

I changed the cabin air filter on the GF's old car (we have since bought a different car).  She took the car to jiffy lube for an oil change.  The guy tells her she's due for a cabin air filter. 

Fortunately, she called me to ask before saying yes .

I wonder how many times some of these places have pulled out the same dirty filter from under a counter and showed someone in the waiting area?   

 

[Deej 77234]

My last oil change, they brought out the engine air filter. Filthy. Odd, as I had changed mine 6 months ago. Told them no thanks. Got home, pulled the filter and it looked like new. Fuckers.

[Gil Bang 26101]

I would have gone apeshit on them.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2741]

Prior to changing my own filters and oil, I would write down date and mileage on them. If they show you one you have written on you know it isn’t yours.

[Gil Bang 26101]

Because it's actually yours?

[Fudge Nuggets 19283]

13 hours ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

No, he was with it when he made the purchase.  He always claimed he was half Scotch, half Jew.  Maxwell Ford probably thought he had ripped them off at that point.