Nutrition and workouts -- teenage boy

[jimmyjazz 46475]

My 15 YO son wants to get faster.  His main sport is soccer (select & HS), but he also runs track in HS (200, long jump, 4x200).  By my estimate he is in the middle of puberty, and is still quite skinny.  I'd say he has very good but not elite track speed for his age, although he's pretty much always the fastest kid on the soccer pitch.

We're going to get him a gym membership at the end of the school year so he has somewhere to train this summer, but most of this is going to have to be self-directed on his part.  Austin doesn't have much in the way of sprint training, and neither my wife nor I can haul his ass around town during the week since we both work.  His HS does offer a "speed/strength camp", but he took it last year and for the most part the coaches did little more than pressure him hard to play football, which he doesn't want to do.  It's doubtful he'll ever be big enough to truly compete, and he's not thrilled with the idea, regardless.

I'm looking for resources on (a) sprint technique (b) weight training and (c) nutrition that might help him maximize his potential, within reason.  Books, websites, whatever.  My internet searches have been all over the map in terms of what is recommended (dead lift, no dead lift, resistance training, no resistance training, lots of reps, no reps, etc.).  As far as nutrition goes, I'd like him to learn how to balance his diet, what (non-steroidal) supplements might help, etc.  All of this would be targeted at reducing his sprint times and increasing his top speed, although I suspect there is value in also building core and upper body strength beyond pure lower body work.

Any recs?

[Rougarou 594]

To recap: You saw the Jesuit Strake white boi Sprinter getting close to Usain Bolt numbers and thought, "hey, i have one of those...hmmmm"

j/k and I got nothn'

[jimmyjazz 46475]

Ha . . . I'm pretty sure genetics have taken him out of that discussion already.  Even in Austin there's usually one kid at every meet that has another gear, and that isn't my boy.

[TXLNGHRN10 341]

I would look at getting him into a track league
https://www.austinstriders.org/

There's also summer track clubs

Edited May 20, 2019 by TXLNGHRN10

[South Austin 52688]

Have him come over once a week to mow my lawn. I’ll only charge $50 per session, which is cheaper than most trainers, and he’ll really improve his lower body strength.

[MAUFRAIS 6677]

Strength shoes

[elfenix 34385]

it's called speedwork

https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20865004/sprint-workouts-to-increase-speed/

https://runcoach.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=557:speed-work-tips&Itemid=444

agility drills will help a lot for soccer.  might need actual coaching for those rather than reading/watching videos on how to like you can with running.

Edited May 20, 2019 by elfenix

[jimmyjazz 46475]

5 minutes ago, elfenix said:

it's called speedwork

https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20865004/sprint-workouts-to-increase-speed/

https://runcoach.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=557:speed-work-tips&Itemid=444

Those appear to be sprint exercises to improve long distance times, no?  That's not what he's trying to do.  He wants to lower his 200 time and increase his long jump, both of which will help (to some degree) on the soccer pitch, too.  

[elfenix 34385]

6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Those appear to be sprint exercises to improve long distance times, no?  That's not what he's trying to do.  He wants to lower his 200 time and increase his long jump, both of which will help (to some degree) on the soccer pitch, too.  

 

 

 

i have a moov tracker.  it's a little device that goes on your ankle and measures your stride, impact, temp, etc.  it has a sprint intervals training function which may help with a lot of the data that your son might be interested in.

Edited May 20, 2019 by elfenix

[EE2B 1565]

DM this guy:
https://mobile.twitter.com/footwork_king1?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[Hank Scorpio 17731]

I found this thread when I googled "teenage boy workout". Weird. 

[RexWilson 1440]

Not sure where you are located. Check out

https://www.chuxspeed.com/classes

I am a coach and have had several athletes work with Chux to improve footwork, sprint technique, etc.

[Nueces River Rat 5597]

Nutrition is fairly simple.

Give the kid meat, but skip the fried varieties or keep them to a  minimum.  I take it he doesn't want to gain massive bulk type muscle or weight like a kid who is playing on the line in football. So have him eat meat and get on some lean protein supplements from a good sports nutrition store who doesn't push the envelope with some of the stuff which has gotten athletes in trouble.  He can afford to have carbs in higher quantities vs some of us older farts where if we don't burn it off, it goes to our bellies or asses.  Or both.   Green veggies, carrots, sweet potatoes, etc get you the good carbs along with nuts. 

Get him in some sort of cross training  program  which will focus more on agility and speed, but won't skip some basic weight workouts.   There are Crossfit boxes or similar facilities which accommodate kids this time of year with special workout times.  Some of these speed camps totally ignore weights and spending a summer introducing things like squats and weighted lunges not only strengthen leg muscle, but help with the core which is benefit of the hips on down on feet.    Plus if the facility has their crap together, they are going to teach your kid proper lifting techniques which in some cases he might not be receiving at his school and certainly would miss doing self paced workouts.  You might pay about the same for three or four workout times a week with what you would pay at a gym not called Planet Fitness.

I know Crossfit or similar workout platforms have their critics.   But I started at age 42 and now I'm 47 and before then I was a diabetic and no telling else candidate in waiting.   Now I am probably in the best shape since my high school years lifting weight I only dreamed about back then.   It's been kind of a fountain of youth if you will.    The reason I like it is kept me focused and I'm done in an hour unless I want to stick around and do some ab work or rowing.   And no workout is the same from day to day which keeps it engaging too.   

 

 

[jimmyjazz 46475]

1 hour ago, Nueces River Rat said:

Give the kid meat, but skip the fried varieties or keep them to a  minimum.  I take it he doesn't want to gain massive bulk type muscle or weight like a kid who is playing on the line in football. So have him eat meat and get on some lean protein supplements from a good sports nutrition store who doesn't push the envelope with some of the stuff which has gotten athletes in trouble.  

Regarding protein supplements:  are the gallon-ish canisters of protein powder sold in grocery stores of any value?

[Nueces River Rat 5597]

Regarding protein supplements:  are the gallon-ish canisters of protein powder sold in grocery stores of any value?

Like Muscle Milk? That stuff is probably a good entry level protein along with many you will see at grocery store. I’d look for shop with someone who knows the products they sell so they can recommend a good product to get your son on the right track. You have to take into account some of the protein supplements are geared toward lean muscle while others are going to cause weight gain for bulk. Plus they might give you some samples because the worst thing you can get do is buy a container of the stuff and it taste like crap

The brand I use is called Allmax Isoflex Birthday cake flavor and it cost about $38 for a 2lb canister on Amazon. It’s awesome and taste nothing like the protein supplements we had in the 80’s. There are all sorts of good tasting flavors out there.

[jimmyjazz 46475]

A little more digging on nutrition seems to reveal an emphasis on protein, Vitamin D, and Omega-3 fatty acids, with some carbs a bit before workouts/events.  None of this seems ground-breaking, but any advice on what is missing would be appreciated.  (Obviously we try to get the kid to eat his fruits and veggies, etc., but . . . teenager.  "Is pizza a vegetable, Dad?")

[RDCanecutter 26553]

Pellet gun.

[elfenix 34385]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

A little more digging on nutrition seems to reveal an emphasis on protein, Vitamin D, and Omega-3 fatty acids, with some carbs a bit before workouts/events.  None of this seems ground-breaking, but any advice on what is missing would be appreciated.  (Obviously we try to get the kid to eat his fruits and veggies, etc., but . . . teenager.  "Is pizza a vegetable, Dad?")

GOMAD is probably the diet for him at this point. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by elfenix

[Nueces River Rat 5597]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

A little more digging on nutrition seems to reveal an emphasis on protein, Vitamin D, and Omega-3 fatty acids, with some carbs a bit before workouts/events.  None of this seems ground-breaking, but any advice on what is missing would be appreciated.  (Obviously we try to get the kid to eat his fruits and veggies, etc., but . . . teenager.  "Is pizza a vegetable, Dad?")

Try this.

When making food at home, grill, grill and grill.  Get him to enjoy that type of food while not force feeding him because that can be long term turn off with nutrition based diets.   But when you go out to eat, let him fill his tummy with whatever he desires because  he will burn it off.  Plus you might be surprised one day when you go out to eat and he goes for the healthy option.  It worked pretty well with my 18 year old and now the kid meal preps for school with grilled chicken and fish.  But yea he still goes to Whataburger and drinks a coke or two a few times a week I'm sure.  

 

 

[jimmyjazz 46475]

Yeah, I have no problem with the occasional indulgence, and we do grill a lot.  It seems like a focus on leaner proteins is where it's at.

I've seen references to "green" supplements -- basically, veggies in a pill.  Any thoughts?  While it might not help performance, my obvious goal is to promote a healthy lifestyle and give him as many options to get there as possible.  At this point in his life he is a caloric machine, but someday that will fade.

[pearlandhorn 3328]

Have him eat lots of lean protein (baked chicken, fish, lean beef). Probably one gram of protein per pound of body weight. He can afford to have the sugar found in fresh fruits as well. Lots of good green veggies. Lay off the fried foods.

Have him learn to squat. The squat helps with fundamental movement and hip henge flexibility. He needs to build his lower body and explosiveness which is the entire benefit of a squat. Get with a personal trainer at the gym to show him the proper form. Also, deadlift, bench press, and rowing.

Just my $.02. Tell the kid to eat a lot of good (for you) food. I use protein powder (optimum nutrition) purchased at Costco. I believe it’s 5 pounds for $50. Vanilla tastes a whole lot better than the chocolate.

Edited May 21, 2019 by pearlandhorn

[jimmyjazz 46475]

1 hour ago, pearlandhorn said:

Have him eat lots of lean protein (baked chicken, fish, lean beef). Probably one gram of protein per pound of body weight. He can afford to have the sugar found in fresh fruits as well. Lots of good green veggies. Lay off the fried foods.

Have him learn to squat. The squat helps with fundamental movement and hip henge flexibility. He needs to build his lower body and explosiveness which is the entire benefit of a squat. Get with a personal trainer at the gym to show him the proper form. Also, deadlift, bench press, and rowing.

Just my $.02. Tell the kid to eat a lot of good (for you) food. I use protein powder (optimum nutrition) purchased at Costco. I believe it’s 5 pounds for $50. Vanilla tastes a whole lot better than the chocolate.

This is the direction I'm headed.  What do you mix the protein powder with -- milk?  water?  Sierra Nevada?  (Asking for myself.)

[Sbbruin 21912]

Have him grow an extra tendon.

[horn4life 3818]

There is a shit ton of science you can get into, but the bottom line is if you want to get faster, you have to go fast.  Getting faster is an incremental process that some respond better to than others, based on a few factors.  How hard can he push himself? What is his ultimate goal?  I helped my daughter shave 20 seconds off her mile time in about 3 weeks and she came in second in district as an 8th grader.  What you need more than anything to get started IMHO is two starting data points.  How fast can he run a mile, and how fast can he run a quarter mile.  Get these numbers initially as baselines, to go back and compare to later.  Speed and good form go hand in hand.  Go to the track and video tape his stride from the side and also from front and rear.  Proper body alignment, and a slight forward lean are key as well as staying off your heels with the foot plants. 

The biggest thing a LOT of folks simply do not understand is that RECOVERY from the stress of pushing yourself physically is what improves your performance. Killer workouts with poor diets and lack of rest simply do not produce the same results and killer workouts with good rest and nutrition.  You can't crush your workouts day after day and get good results. You can put in extremely hard workouts and have time to truly recover, about twice a week.  He's young and has been playing soccer so he probably has a fairly good aerobic base.  So he can handle interval track work,  hill work and sprint work.  ALWAYS have him warm up fully before doing any sort of intense sprint work.  Flexibility is also super important over time to prevent injury as a muscle that can stretch farther before is pulls simply is more durable.

I might give him something like, easy jog a half mile, dynamic stretching, then 8 x 220 sprints, walking a fullt lap as a rest interval before the next 220.  Obviously he cant's crush 8 -220's at first, but he can focus on his form and bringing the speed up from 80% to full speed at the end of each 220. ALWAYS warm down, with more stretching at the end of the workouts.  The warm down is the first step in the recovery process and walking to help remove the lactic acid after a sprint workout is key. If he's the thin and quick in Soccer than getting a little thicker physically will help him a lot as the competitive bar is raised  I also like treadmill training for pure speed and control.  You can see how fast mph you are going and again it's all about holding your form.  Very short bursts of top speed, 20 seconds every two minutes or three minutes, the speed goes up to max gradually then a second or two hold at top end then decelerate to a walk again. He will need you to sit there and press the button for him, but it's cool bonding.  On ALL of this, the enemy is overtraining despite his desire to improve quickly.  You can increase intensity for 3 weeks and then pull back 10% on the 4th week as a rest week.  At the end of Summer have him pull back and rest in preperation to be ready for the Fall seasons.

I would have him lift twice a week mainly focusing on upper body, since he is going to be doing the sprint work crushing the legs.  Mon- Sprint, Tues walk/ Lift, Wednesday- easy run focus on FORM, Thurs- sprint workout, Friday lift/walk,  Saturday easy run Focus on FORM, Sunday is rest day.   After two weeks of lifting he can add an extra day if he wants.  If he has a buddy to spot him he can always lift at home.  I still remember my 15 year old Summer, whet to pool from 10-noon, went home lifted Mon/Wed/Fri and ran Tues Thurs, lunch, back to pool. 

Whatever he does DO NOT make it work!!!! If you want to you can always just get him and a buddy signed up for some speed and agility training.  Let the pros do the work, and they are usually pretty good.  I don't know who is the best anymore, but as a parent if you can get other kids involved it helps share the load with carpooling since he's only 15. Hope he reaches his goals and had a great summer to boot.  

[Beau Vine 54862]

On 5/20/2019 at 4:25 PM, TXLNGHRN10 said:

I would look at getting him into a track league
https://www.austinstriders.org/

There's also summer track clubs

This is really good advice.  The easiest way to get faster is to forget about technique and just run more miles. 

[pearlandhorn 3328]

4 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

This is the direction I'm headed.  What do you mix the protein powder with -- milk?  water?  Sierra Nevada?  (Asking for myself.)

I am trying to lose weight, not gain it. I use water. Someone who needs to gain weight could use something with higher calorie content like milk, or even in a smoothie with fruit and yogurt.

[Helobious 9503]

Lulz at Austin soccer. Both Westlake & Lake Travis got absolutely obliterated by San Antonio Lee in the playoffs this year. Most of those Lee kids probably live off beans & chicken tacos, and I doubt many of them follow some fancy weight lifting or speed training program. When it comes to improving at a sport, it’s easy to way overthink the process. If he wants to get better at soccer then he needs to play a ton of soccer. 3v3, whatever. 

I never ran track (or played soccer tbh), but if your kid wants to improve speed just have him find a hill & run up it a bunch of times. Standing long jumps should help too. No it won’t “optimize” his improvement but I doubt the <1 second off his 200 time that’ll come with the >$1000 total you might throw towards speed training & specialized nutrition will be worth it. 

[jimmyjazz 46475]

If Austin area soccer isn't "good enough" then that's just a cross he'll have to bear.  My cousin's son and daughter played for NC State and UNC, respectively, and I'll be damned if I'm going to that cost and time commitment, much of which comes at the expense of academics, to get him to that level.  That's just not going to happen.

I'm not sure HS soccer results are a terribly good indicator, anyway.  As far as I know, most academy programs prohibit playing for school teams.

Edited May 22, 2019 by jimmyjazz

[TXLNGHRN10 341]

12 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

This is really good advice.  The easiest way to get faster is to forget about technique and just run more miles. 

Except there are legit coaches and training regiments which could improve technique, strength and speed.

[jimmyjazz 46475]

49 minutes ago, TXLNGHRN10 said:

Except there are legit coaches and training regiments which could improve technique, strength and speed.

The most common phrase I see among sprint coaches is "train fast, run fast".  It makes sense.  That said, I can absolutely attest to the fact that he's received almost no training regarding technique when it comes to sprints.  He doesn't know the start, he doesn't know anything in particular about body position and technique during the different phases (acceleration, max velocity, etc.).  He's a raw piece of clay.  I would be shocked if a good coach couldn't shave 10-15 % off his 200 m time.

[Nueces River Rat 5597]

20 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

This is the direction I'm headed.  What do you mix the protein powder with -- milk?  water?  Sierra Nevada?  (Asking for myself.)

Most of them are a just add water thing.   But some will use milk to give it more of milk shake like taste.

One word of caution.  Depending on your kid's digestive system and what he might have eaten during the course of the day, he might have gas issues on occasion thanks to the protein shake.   So plan accordingly if you know what I mean, especially if he's going to be hanging around you  while the stuff goes though his system.  LOL

[Horn of Gabriel 1864]

Gallon of Milk per Day - GOMAD.  Perfect for the teenager who is putting on muscle.

Speed is derivative of Power, which is the application of Strength against a load (for running, your body weight and gravity; for powerlifting gravity and the weight on the bar).  Hence, if you want to get faster, you need to get stronger.  All things equal, the stronger athlete will be faster than the weaker, with strength measured in repeatable/testable way, such as ability to squat a certain weight on the bar.  Higher squat will mean higher production of Power and faster Speed.

Go grab a copy of Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training and start from there.  He should be doing 3x/week weigh training following that program and progressively adding weight each time.  A teenage boy on that program + GOMAD will be in beast mode very quickly.

...

Now all that is about Strength and its application to Power and Speed.  The other side of the coin is Technique, which isn't about Strength.  Proper shooting form for a basketball, good throwing form for football, coming out of the blocks properly for a sprint.  Those can have a huge impact as well.

[jimmyjazz 46475]

+ rep HOGabriel.  My son's half-brother, who is now 23, went from a runt to a pretty impressive self-taught beast in a year no doubt in part due to the fact that he drank a shit ton of milk and worked his ass off.  He had no particular athletic goal, though, other than he was tired of being a runt.  Now he's average height and totally fit.

[MAUFRAIS 6677]

[Judge Roybeanbag 11824]

On 5/21/2019 at 12:30 PM, RDCanecutter said:

Pellet gun.

Haha.  You must have had an older brother.  I don't know how many times I got the old "I'll give you 5 seconds..."  routine.