Rick Barnes thread

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

20 minutes ago, Bitterwhiteguy said:

You can be a top-15 coach throughout the year and not win a national title

Bingo. The top 15 coaches at any given juncture don't all end their careers with national championships. Guys like Norm Stewart, Gene Keady, Lou Henson, PJ Carlesimo, Rick Majerus, Lou Carnesseca, Bob Huggins, Ray Meyer, Dale Brown, Eddie Sutton, etc, never got there and half of them are dead and therefore conclusively won't. But at the time they were coaching, at their peaks, they'd have been in that group of "top 15 coaches", give or take (they might not have made everyone's list but they'd have made many/most).

Barnes won't get there either, he's already well past the age where even the oldest coaches win their first. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by SwanderedTalent

[LTtxfan 49355]

Vols showed a hellava fight in 2nd Half.  Great Freakin' Game..... one of the best games this year!!!

Congrats to Rick and the Vols

 

[Clintonaldo 2576]

1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

This isn't really the moment to tell Tennessee fans that the team overachieved based on its talent or that they should be happy just to have Rick Barnes, etc. This was a 2-seed that battled for a 1 most of the season. For the season to end in the Sweet 16, it's a disappointment, whether that's fully rational or not. Same thing with Michigan-- came up short for the regular season title, didn't win the conference tournament, didn't make the Final Four. You can point at holes in the lineup, say they should be grateful to win 30, etc, but any time a season as promising as this one ends short of the Final Four, it's disappointing.

Yep, disappointed but not pissed........yet

[rickyspub 801]

1 hour ago, Bitterwhiteguy said:

You can be a top-15 coach throughout the year and not win a national title because usually you end up facing other top-15 coaches after the first round or two of the tourney.

2019: lost to Matt Painter

2018: lost to Loyola-Chicago who had the elite octogenarian nun in the tourney.

2015: lost to Chris Holtmann (then at Butler, now leading the Ohio State turnaround)

2014: lost to Beilein

2012: lost to Mick Cronin

2011: lost to Sean Miller

2010: lost to Dino Gaudio, who is clearly the most amazing co-oh, right, he's been an announcer for years.

2009: lost to Coach K

2008: lost to Calipari

 

I could go back further - and somebody else is free to do so - but I think there's merit to the idea that Barnes is a top-20 or so coach who tends to stumble when he runs across the coaches in the top 15. Not all of the results I listed are HoF guys, obviously, but the guys who bounce him from the tourney more often than not tend to be the elite guys.

This is an interesting idea. I wonder what Barnes's profile would look like in a broader comparison of coaches. Looking not just at whom they lost to but also whom they beat. Obviously all the better coaches on this list would have a win over Barnes on their ledgers. I believe Barnes beat Gene Keady and Izzo in the Final Four run and I am certain he beat Roy Williams once, but I am drawing a blank on any other HoF-level or near-to-HoF coaches he has won against. We know how empty some Elite Eight and Final Four profiles can be when winning through a Madness-weakened bracket, so is Barnes's record ultimately really good?

[Clintonaldo 2576]

I forgot to say that I knew we would lose when I couldn’t get service to type lol in this thread last night in middle of 2nd half. Tennessee has a good record when I can flip the mojo

[Machinator 32099]

25 minutes ago, rickyspub said:

This is an interesting idea. I wonder what Barnes's profile would look like in a broader comparison of coaches. Looking not just at whom they lost to but also whom they beat. Obviously all the better coaches on this list would have a win over Barnes on their ledgers. I believe Barnes beat Gene Keady and Izzo in the Final Four run and I am certain he beat Roy Williams once, but I am drawing a blank on any other HoF-level or near-to-HoF coaches he has won against. We know how empty some Elite Eight and Final Four profiles can be when winning through a Madness-weakened bracket, so is Barnes's record ultimately really good?

He also beat Jim Calhoun's UConn team in that Final Four run. Roy Williams was the year afterwards. John Beilein in the 2006 Elite Eight run (the Kenton Paulino shot).

[rickyspub 801]

Just now, Machinator said:

He also beat Jim Calhoun's UConn team in that Final Four run. Roy Williams was the year afterwards. John Beilein in the 2006 Elite Eight run (the Kenton Paulino shot).

I almost added Calhoun, but I couldn't remember the year. Obviously guys like Izzo and Coach K and Calipari have a laundry list of wins over other top coaches. Self always seems to underperform at the late stages of the tourney, I wonder what his record looks like against the cream of the crop.

[Underdog 28773]

Is Tubby a HoFer?  Horns beat his Minny Team the season they lost to Duke in the 2nd Rd(questionable foul call). 

[MotownHorn 1795]

Over/under on how long it takes Derka to lick his wounds and post in this thread again? 😁

[Blotto 23575]

Stumbled across this link recently

http://www.dbwoerner.com/basketball/coaches/coach119.html

This would indicate that when it comes to the tournament (min 10 games coached), Barnes is a top 30 guy, but not much higher. The biggest positive is the number of appearances. Its amazing how concentrated the final 4,2,1 success is at the top. 

What's kinda cool about this site is you can see the same stats for any year going back quite a few years.

[HookEm 2467]

According to that site, Barnes is tied at #29.... with Shaka Smart. Lol.

[HookEm 2467]

Same number of Final Fours too.

[Machinator 32099]

The tournament is and always has been a crapshoot. The best way to achieve success is to make it every year with a favorable seed, which is why regular season success should be valued more than it is by fans sometimes.

This was a somewhat disappointing result for Tennessee but they still managed a Sweet 16 out of it. That's what being a 2 seed will get you.

[Brian Fantana 6690]

6 hours ago, Underdog said:

Is Tubby a HoFer?  Horns beat his Minny Team the season they lost to Duke in the 2nd Rd(questionable foul call). 

He didn't want Jarrett Culver lul

[Underdog 28773]

Why he had to go @ UK, recruiting was suffering bad enough that pACCker was feeling a bit sorry for UK. 

[LTtxfan 49355]

28 minutes ago, HookEm said:

According to that site, Barnes is tied at #29.... with Shaka Smart. Lol.

It's the gift that keeps on giving......

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by LTtxfan

[Catdaddyhorn 3447]

1 hour ago, Brian Fantana said:

He didn't want Jarrett Culver lul

Is this real? Wasn't Culver a sophomore or junior in high school when Tubby left? 

[Brian Fantana 6690]

3 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Is this real? Wasn't Culver a sophomore or junior in high school when Tubby left? 

Culver was the first call Beard made when he took the job. Tubby was not interested.

[markstanco 12610]

Is derka still typing his response?

Maybe his internet connection is down. It's been over 24 hours so that's likely the issue.

[Underdog 28773]

11 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Culver was the first call Beard made when he took the job. Tubby was not interested.

In Tubby’s defense, Joe Hall thought Larry Bird’s shot was too slow for the SEC.  Coaches miss sometimes. 

4 minutes ago, markstanco said:

21 hours ago, Tommy Nobis said:

Is derka still typing his response?

Maybe his internet connection is down. It's been over 24 hours so that's likely the issue.

Think Mueller Report-esque post. 

[rickyspub 801]

3 hours ago, Machinator said:

The tournament is and always has been a crapshoot. The best way to achieve success is to make it every year with a favorable seed, which is why regular season success should be valued more than it is by fans sometimes.

This was a somewhat disappointing result for Tennessee but they still managed a Sweet 16 out of it. That's what being a 2 seed will get you.

To me the way to judge is whether you at least played to your seed. That makes it hard to really judge the mid-major guys who are always starting out as a low seed, but the great coaches are getting to the Elite 8 with a 2 seed, while the good coaches just make the Sweet 16. 

If Beard wins tomorrow he will enter that list posted above at #1 with an .800 win percentage. If he loses he enters at a #6. If there were a coach to throw the bank at he's my pick.

[Js1 85573]

14 hours ago, Underdog said:

Think Mueller Report-esque post. 

400 pages?!?!

Surly can't handle it, not with the way @immamackeeps borking this shit.  Derka will crash this site faster than the Myanmar Muslim Brotherhood. 

[Underdog 28773]

Dude’s had a rough couple of weeks with Barnes, Cronin and Musselman bowing out and Shaka has led Texas to NYC for the NIT FF. 

[PilotsError 2320]

We're being scolded with his silence.

[Knoxtnhorn 6066]

Right or wrong... or right.  Barnes got blitzed in the national media for the TO call at the end of regulation.  

[Js1 85573]

53 minutes ago, PilotsError said:

We're being scolded with his silence.

I like this punishment. 

[Brian Fantana 6690]

Has Derka posted at all since the loss? Lmao

[Tommy Nobis 905]

Has Derka posted at all since the loss? Lmao

Not in this thread. Someone might wanna do a welfare check on him.

[Underdog 28773]

Hiding or not, dude needed a break.  It couldn’t be healthy for him with his obsession of all things Barnes. 

[El Squared 1813]

I do not understand the shock of RBs failure to advance. He shot his wad at the usual time.

Also : Corch of the year is Beard, no contest.

Edited April 1, 2019 by El Squared

[Machinator 32099]

Must be tough for Tennessee fans to watch Bruce Pearl take another SEC program to a Final Four.

[Braff Zacklin 13661]

1 minute ago, Machinator said:

Must be tough for Tennessee fans to watch Bruce Pearl take another SEC program to a Final Four.

He and Auburn are riding high ... until the inevitable probation.

[Goo Punch 4275]

Welp, I'm back, and you guessed it, I've got some thoughts. First, on Barnes and this 2019 Vols team:

 

Here's every loss for Rick Barnes and Tennessee this year:

 

•87-81 vs KU in OT (Neutral)

•86-69 @UK

•82-80 @LSU

•84-80 @Auburn

•84-64 vs Auburn (Neutral)

•99-94 vs Purdue in OT (Neutral) 

 

-The worst team they lost to all season was the SEC Champion/Sweet 16 LSU Tigers. Every other team they lost to went to the Elite 8 or further (save KU who lost their best player after playing Tennessee)

 

-The two worst losses/only "bad" losses of the entire season were 1)a road game at Kentucky where the refs killed them (foul disparity between starting lineups- 21 for Tenn, 7 for UK; 33-18 FTA disparity with 1/3 of Tenn's FTA coming late), and 2)a conference tourney championship game against a Final Four team

 

-They beat Gonzaga, they beat Kentucky twice, they beat Louisville, they swept Florida, and they crushed Mississippi State twice in sweeping them as well 

 

-They went undefeated at home, as well as capped off a 4-0 record for their senior class against UK at TBA

 

-They objectively got screwed by refs in the losses to LSU and Purdue

 

-They just had one of the 2-3 best seasons in Tennessee basketball history

 

just wanted to add some facts to this thread which is suddenly full of experts on Rick Barnes and his Tennessee Vols.

[Goo Punch 4275]

Also, this is somewhat vexing to me: Shaggy crushes Rick Barnes for his tournament record, yet half the posters here would give their left nut and their first born if it meant Texas could hire Mark Few. Few has run one of the 5 or 6 best basketball programs in the country over the last decade, and yet he has one Final Four and zero titles to show for it. Based on the rankings and metrics of Few's teams over the last decade*, how do we conclude that Mark Few is not a decidedly underachieving tournament coach if Rick Barnes is the worst tourney coach ever?

 

•2018/19- #2 OVR in Kenpom, 33-4, 16-0, lost in Elite 8

•2017/18- #10, 32-5, 17-1, lost in Sweet 16

•2016/17- #1, 37-2, 17-1, lost in NCAA Final 

•2015/16- #21, 28-8, 15-3, lost in Sweet 16

•2014/15- #7, 35-3, 17-1, lost in Elite 8

•2013/14- #24, 29-7, 15-3, lost in rd of 32

•2012/13- #5, 32-3, 16-0, lost in rd of 32

•2011/12- #21, 26-7, 13-3, lost in rd of 32

•2010/11- #37, 25-10, 11-3, lost in rd of 32

•2009/10- #44, 27-7, 12-2, lost in rd of 32

•2008/09- #8, 28-6, 14-0, lost in Sweet 16

 

*meant to do ten years but did the last 11

 

•9/11 teams ranked in Kenpom's top 24

•6/11 teams ranked in Kenpom's top 10

•3/11 teams ranked in Kenpom's top 5

 

and yet they've been to one final four with zero titles. lost in the S16 or earlier 8/11 times. take away 2010 and 2011 and that's nine seasons for Few where his team's average Kenpom ranking was 11th in the country, and in those 9 tournaments he took those highly ranked, 30+ win teams to one Final Four and two EE's, with six other exits evenly split between the S16 and round of 32. Seems very Barnesy to me.

[Goo Punch 4275]

Should I do the same thing for Tony Bennett now, another coach who everyone here would kill for? Not only did he finally make his first seed-appropriate tourney run last night, he did everything he could to fuck it up. UVA's final possession was *horrendous* coaching. They're losing by 3 with 11 seconds left and they walk the ball up and try to run the clock down so that they can only get one shot like it's a tie game!! It's frankly amazing that Bennett's epically awful last-play decision making didn't cause him to come up short again, but this time he was bailed out by some unreal awareness and execution by his players.

 

The truth of the matter is I'd bet dollars to donuts that the scores of people who show up to crush Barnes every time Tennessee falters don't actually know a whole lot about the specifics of his tourney record or how they compare to those of other coaches who aren't deemed such epic tourney failures. They just repeat what they've heard and all pat each other on the back for being so with it. Way to go guys, you're all able to repeat the same false facts as the next guy who doesn't actually know what he's talking about at all.

 

Rick Barnes coaches up lesser talent and gets it to reach its absolute ceiling as well as/better than any coach in the country. It's a great recipe for regular season success and a pretty bad recipe for tourney success barring Barnes actually having multiple NBA players/superior talent on his team. For the record, despite how many people in here have said that Barnes "did what he always does", this was the first time that he ever had a two seed or better and failed to make it to the Elite 8 or further, not to mention that Tennessee got screwed vs Purdue. Barnes' tourney record as anything better than a 4 seed is 12-4 with a S16, two EE's, and a Final Four. That fact never stops anyone from claiming that he chokes in the tourney with great teams, but there it is anyway.

[Michael Knight 12995]

[PilotsError 2320]

Straight into my veins.

[Uncle Boobs 1248]

Also, this is somewhat vexing to me: Shaggy crushes Rick Barnes for his tournament record, yet half the posters here would give their left nut and their first born if it meant Texas could hire Mark Few. Few has run one of the 5 or 6 best basketball programs in the country over the last decade, and yet he has one Final Four and zero titles to show for it. Based on the rankings and metrics of Few's teams over the last decade*, how do we conclude that Mark Few is not a decidedly underachieving tournament coach if Rick Barnes is the worst tourney coach ever?
 
•2018/19- #2 OVR in Kenpom, 33-4, 16-0, lost in Elite 8
•2017/18- #10, 32-5, 17-1, lost in Sweet 16
•2016/17- #1, 37-2, 17-1, lost in NCAA Final 
•2015/16- #21, 28-8, 15-3, lost in Sweet 16
•2014/15- #7, 35-3, 17-1, lost in Elite 8
•2013/14- #24, 29-7, 15-3, lost in rd of 32
•2012/13- #5, 32-3, 16-0, lost in rd of 32
•2011/12- #21, 26-7, 13-3, lost in rd of 32
•2010/11- #37, 25-10, 11-3, lost in rd of 32
•2009/10- #44, 27-7, 12-2, lost in rd of 32
•2008/09- #8, 28-6, 14-0, lost in Sweet 16
 
*meant to do ten years but did the last 11
 
•9/11 teams ranked in Kenpom's top 24
•6/11 teams ranked in Kenpom's top 10
•3/11 teams ranked in Kenpom's top 5
 
and yet they've been to one final four with zero titles. lost in the S16 or earlier 8/11 times. take away 2010 and 2011 and that's nine seasons for Few where his team's average Kenpom ranking was 11th in the country, and in those 9 tournaments he took those highly ranked, 30+ win teams to one Final Four and two EE's, with six other exits evenly split between the S16 and round of 32. Seems very Barnesy to me.

I love Rick Barnes. Rick Barnes is a great coach and often a hilarious man.

Rick Barnes has been to the Sweet Sixteen 7 times in 32 seasons. He has coached up some unheralded teams and also disappointed with star laden teams.

Mark Few has been to 9 Sweet Sixteens in 20 seasons. His teams have historically had unheralded players and low recruiting rankings.

I root for Rick Barnes at Tennessee because I enjoyed his time at Texas. However, criticism of him is justified.

[Catdaddyhorn 3447]

36 minutes ago, Uncle Boobs said:

I love Rick Barnes. Rick Barnes is a great coach and often a hilarious man.

Rick Barnes has been to the Sweet Sixteen 7 times in 32 seasons. He has coached up some unheralded teams and also disappointed with star laden teams.

Mark Few has been to 9 Sweet Sixteens in 20 seasons. His teams have historically had unheralded players and low recruiting rankings.

I root for Rick Barnes at Tennessee because I enjoyed his time at Texas. However, criticism of him is justified.

Mark Few has also spent his entire career in a garbage conference where he gets to inflate his record and thus inflate his tournament seeding due to destroying said garbage conference time and time again. The difference in the number of sweet 16s is partly a function of only facing quality competition early in the season before those teams approach anything close to their peak level of play and in turn getting more favorable seeding as a result. He may be a slightly better coach than Barnes, but I think @Goo Punch made an apt comparison given the difference in competition the 2 coaches have faced for the majority of their careers. Without even looking, I'd guess that the 2 coaches have similar records as top 4 seeds in the tournament. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by Catdaddyhorn

[Goo Punch 4275]

47 minutes ago, Uncle Boobs said:

I love Rick Barnes. Rick Barnes is a great coach and often a hilarious man.

Rick Barnes has been to the Sweet Sixteen 7 times in 32 seasons. He has coached up some unheralded teams and also disappointed with star laden teams.

Mark Few has been to 9 Sweet Sixteens in 20 seasons. His teams have historically had unheralded players and low recruiting rankings.

I root for Rick Barnes at Tennessee because I enjoyed his time at Texas. However, criticism of him is justified.

Criticism of his tourney record is justified, yes, but the actual, specific criticisms of him aren't just critical, they paint him to be one of if not the worst tourney coaches ever, when in reality he doesn't even have more than a handful of truly bad tourney losses, he's just sent a lot of guys to the NBA and only gone to one FF. He's below average to average. He's not what he's made out to be.

 

You yourself just said that he's disappointed with star laden teams in the tourney. Except that I just quoted his record as anything better than a 4 seed, and i'll post it again: 12-4, one S16 (this year with no first round draft picks and a screw job by the refs), 2 EE's, and one FF. Explain to me how that adds up to him being a disappointment with superior talent? The five best teams of his career are as follows:

2003- Beat Sparty and Uconn on the way to the FF

2006- Players let him down in a game they win 9.5/10 times, still made EE, should have been FF

2008- Went to the Elite 8 and lost to 1 seed Memphis 

2011- ranked 5th in the country by KenPom, yet given a 4 seed and then absolutely jobbed by an official vs Arizona

2019- A disappointing loss in the S16, and another game where an official took over late, though not as severe as 2011

 

Those were his best teams. They all had good runs. People who quote his overall body of work include a bunch of bad-mediocre Providence and Clemson teams that went home early for good reason as part of their evidence that he's this terrible tourney coach when in reality a lot of those teams don't even make the tourney with a different coach. 

Look, if you want to say that you shouldn't expect him to outplay his seed or to upset anybody that's fine, but this persistent idea that he's some unbelievably awful tourney coach is just nonsense.

Edited April 1, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4275]

7 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Mark Few has also spent his entire career in a garbage conference where he gets to inflate his record and thus inflate his tournament seeding due to destroying said garbage conference time and time again. The difference in the number of sweet 16s is partly a function of only facing quality competition early in the season before those teams approach anything close to their peak level of play and in turn getting more favorable seeding as a result. He may be a slightly better coach than Barnes, but I think @Goo Punch made an apt comparison given the difference in competition the 2 coaches have faced for the majority of their careers. Without even looking, I'd guess that the 2 coaches have similar records as top 4 seeds in the tournament. 

yep, see my last post where our 2011 team was #5 overall in kenpom and got a 4 seed that drew a very good Oakland team and then Derrick Williams's Arizona team. Someone, maybe @dcar00 said that Rick Barnes is snake bit, and I think that's a much more accurate description of him as a tourney coach (both conference and ncaa) than it is to say he's some huge failure.

[Goo Punch 4275]

On 3/28/2019 at 9:39 PM, aggie08 said:

In the tournament, sometimes you can blame the coach. Other times, some nondescript white dude just goes off from deep.

This. And this is more evidence that the man is snake bit. 

Ryan Cline vs Tennessee: 

10-13 FG, 7-10 3P, about six Dude Perfect trick shots, and 27 points

 

Ryan Cline in Purdue's other three tourney games combined: 

109 minutes played (36.3 mpg), 8-28 FG, 7-23 3P,  24 points.

What is it with Rick Barnes teams and nondescript white guys having career days against them?

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

5 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Based on the rankings and metrics of Few's teams over the last decade*, how do we conclude that Mark Few is not a decidedly underachieving tournament coach if Rick Barnes is the worst tourney coach ever?

Because Few has done everything he's done without a steady stream of 5* players and the people that (I guess) want him hired here think that with better talent his extremely good record against extremely mediocre competition would be an extremely good record against extremely good competition with a better chance of turning into a national championship. The thinking is that those Gonzaga teams that bounce off Few's mid-major-talent-level glass ceiling would have some difference-making one-and-dones and break through. 

Again, context matters here. People bitched, as they do about every coach, but practically no one wanted Barnes' head on a platter after the Arizona screw job in the spring of 2011. His consistently "about what you'd expect" post-seasons became a problem when the program trended into regular mediocre regular seasons combined with really bad (hard to watch) basketball*. People were willing to wait for Barnes to break through when he was winning fairly big. No one had any faith he was going to miraculously do that once the team started posting 20-13 records and eking out low seeds. 

If Few were the coach here, and we were routinely winning 30 games and getting into/past the Sweet 16, people would grumble but wait semi-patiently, expecting him to break through. If Few did that and then started winning 20 games and scraping by as a 9-seed, you'd hear precisely the same "he ruined my love for basketball!!!!" complaining about him that we got about Barnes his last three years. 

* Rick started to lose me after we beat A&M in January 2010, in overtime. That was the ugliest fucking win and I walked away from it thinking we were in serious trouble if something didn't change. It didn't, we were. 

Edited April 1, 2019 by SwanderedTalent

[Js1 85573]

8 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

MAINLINE THE DERKA RANTS STRAIGHT TO MY HEART

[Huckleberry 33096]

Because Few has done everything he's done without a steady stream of 5* players and the people that (I guess) want him hired here think that with better talent his extremely good record against extremely mediocre competition would be an extremely good record against extremely good competition with a better chance of turning into a national championship. The thinking is that those Gonzaga teams that bounce off Few's mid-major-talent-level glass ceiling would have some difference-making one-and-dones and break through. 

That's what we thought about Barnes, too.
Turns out some coaches just communicate with and motivate a scrappy roster better than a star-laden roster. Barnes didn't need a roster full of 5-stars, he needed a roster full of PJ Tuckers and Royal Iveys. Guys with fringe NBA talent who might make a career based on busting their ass and intelligence on the court. Give him a two-deep of those guys and you'll have the ultimate Barnes team.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

to be clear, I'm trying to tell Derka what I think people advocating for Few are thinking

I'm not one of them because I've never spent a minute wondering what it would be like for us to hire either, because I don't think either would uproot after 20 years in one place (Few @ Gonzaga, Wright @ VIllanova)

Edited April 1, 2019 by SwanderedTalent

[Herpa Derpa 6131]

24 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

to be clear, I'm trying to tell Derka what I think people advocating for Few are thinking

I'm not one of them because I've never spent a minute wondering what it would be like for us to hire either, because I don't think either would uproot after 20 years in one place (Few @ Gonzaga, Wright @ VIllanova)

To be clear, you can't tell Derka anything.  Trying to educate Derka about something that contradicts his beliefs is like trying to knock over a Weeble..

[rickyspub 801]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

 

That's what we thought about Barnes, too.
Turns out some coaches just communicate with and motivate a scrappy roster better than a star-laden roster. Barnes didn't need a roster full of 5-stars, he needed a roster full of PJ Tuckers and Royal Iveys. Guys with fringe NBA talent who might make a career based on busting their ass and intelligence on the court. Give him a two-deep of those guys and you'll have the ultimate Barnes team.

 

What we should have insisted Shaka do as well. We might not consistently compete year-in-year-out with Kansas, but we sure as hell would have won more games recruiting fringe NBA talent and running Havoc. If you want to run a traditional system and win on talent then at least pick a fucking coach that has proven success running a traditional system.

[MotownHorn 1795]

20 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Should I do the same thing for Tony Bennett now, another coach who everyone here would kill for?

No. You should shut the fuck up is what you should do.

[HookEm 2467]

I really think that our recruiting "success" has been our undoing over the last 10 years. We lose our best players every year before they even become very productive. Because of the turnover, even the players we keep seem unhappy and many transfer. Unless you have a roster completely FULL of 5-star talent, you just can't win with freshmen playing huge minutes.

That said, how do you have the discipline as a program to go exclusively after 50-150 type players if you can get top-10 players? It wouldn't surprise me for Shaka to go to a mid-major after this and return to his roots and success. That is really what Barnes has done.