Rick Barnes thread

[GotThatFire 166]

Well move to Tennessee and call yourself Karen

[Goo Punch 4275]

hard to see how Tennessee covers 8.5 tonight. they already lost by 13 in Knoxville.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Goo Punch

[LTtxfan 49352]

Nice Win for Tennessee...

 

[LTtxfan 49352]

GREAT WIN FOR FOLKS HURTING IN TENNESSEE!!!

 

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by LTtxfan

[Goo Punch 4275]

gonna catch this one on my DVR tomorrow. the couple times i clicked over during the ou game commercials all i saw was kentucky whooping them, and then check by check the score kept getting closer. i caught a couple of Fulkerson's late game plays. watching him, Brock, and Hamm tonight was great. 

[Underdog 28773]

Impressive win by the Vols, turned it off at halftime thinking it looked good for UK but should’ve realized Cal is the coach so anything is possible.  The Fulkerson kid looks unorthodox as hell but plays pretty damn good, tough also, took a nasty elbow to nose but hung in there. 

[Clintonaldo 2576]

17 hours ago, Underdog said:

Impressive win by the Vols, turned it off at halftime thinking it looked good for UK but should’ve realized Cal is the coach so anything is possible.  The Fulkerson kid looks unorthodox as hell but plays pretty damn good, tough also, took a nasty elbow to nose but hung in there. 

I will give you a lot of credit. You are humble in victory and defeat. I cannot believe we pulled it off. 

[Underdog 28773]

LOL.  I appreciate it but trust me, I've been on both ends of the spectrum.  But as I've gotten older I realize it's just sports and sometimes you just tip your cap to the other team.  Have always liked Barnes and glad to see him bring UT back to prominence and hopefully restore a once great Rivalry that I grew up with. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

super long post incoming, and i'm putting a **SERIOUS** tag on it, because i'm not going to put this much time, thought, and effort into a post just so that herpa, immortal, deej, and the rest of children can scare off any adults who may actually be interested in discussing the thread/post topic by shitting all over everything before anyone else can even reply. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

welp, can't make the post until tapatalk gets it shit together. 

[Goo Punch 4275]

Over in the "Greatest White Players" thread I ended up talking about AJ Abrams, and wondering aloud why he isn't a bigger star/spoken about more often. Here's my post for full context, with the Rick Barnes related portion in bold:

He is the greatest shooter in Big XII history, and one of the greatest three point shooters in modern college basketball. And his work rate off the ball is the best I have ever seen. He was a truly special player who for some reason does not get the love that he deserves. I suppose playing with the likes of PJ Tucker, LaMarcus Aldridge, Boobie Gibson, Kevin Durant, and DJ Augustin can have that affect. FUCK i miss when we were THAT fucking good with stacked rosters full of well coached players.

Every player I just named played basketball for Texas in the same calendar year of 2006. In one year we had that much talent (plus AJ Abrams and Damion James) on campus and playing at the FEC. Between the 05/06 and 07/08 seasons Texas went 86-24 (average season 29-8), finished 1st, 3rd, and 1st in the Big XII, and went to the Elite 8 twice. 

Here's the numbers from 2006:












I've posted the same stats from basketball-reference many times during the Shaka era, and we rank in the low 200's and even the low 300's in literally 3x as many categories as we do ranking in even the top 100 of anything, which itself is no high benchmark. Ranking this highly at this many things, as we did so often under Barnes, should be remembered more. But it's not. Why? Well...

Ahh, the 2007 season, a season about which I've probably already typed 100,000 words both here and at TOS. This is the one season from this time period that for some reason most UT fans choose to remember, and all of them remember it incorrectly. We finished 25th in KenPom; we had one single win over a team ranked in the top 50 (the 2OT win vs Acie Law at home). We lost at home to K State (way worse loss than USC). We were very exciting offensively, featuring DJ, AJ, and KD, but the truth is that we spent most of the year unranked, and in fact the 07 Horns were just never that great of a team to begin with. Maybe the 7th or 8th best team under Barnes, no higher. Still, what an amazingly enjoyable season to witness. Never seen anything like the show KD put on for us from November into March.

But then March did come, and we lost to USC, and Bill Simmons made a huge deal out of it, and all anyone remembers is that the 35-0 juggernaut Longhorns lost to some scrub team with a shitty coach and no NBA talent. What a shame that so many of our hoops fans have taken what was such an amazing and enjoyable season, and decided that the final game of that season (and the accompanying anger) is what will linger in their minds forever from this time period, not even realizing that this ridiculously enjoyable season was actually the low point of a pretty amazing three year stretch of Texas basketball. Now back to the pretty pictures and 30-win teams that play into the third weekend of the tourney with alarming frequency:

The numbers from 2008:














So, the same team as the year before, only swap out KD for Gary Johnson, and the team wins 31 games, goes 13-3 in the league (tied for first with KU), destroys #13 (final KenPom ranking) Tennessee on a neutral floor, beats #4 UCLA (Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love, Darren Collison) at Pauley Pavilion, beats #1 KU at the FEC, finishes ranked 9th in KenPom, and plays into the third weekend of the tourney for the third time in six years. Yeah, Rick Barnes sucks.

What's crazy is that all of this stuff came right after the TJ Ford era, which itself came right after Barnes took the job and won the league in his first year. More than a decade of Texas hoops being exciting to watch, replete with All Americans, future pros, and national award winners, and yet that one loss to USC is all that 4/5 Texas hoops fans point to/think of when they talk about Rick Barnes. What a shame.

And now he's gone and immediately turned Tennessee from a basketball bottom dweller in a football conference, to a nationally relevant program in no time. 103, 57, 13, 10- those are Tennessee's final KenPom rankings in Barnes' first four years there. And after losing the entire roster from the fourth team and having a down year this year, the Vols have the no.5 recruiting class in America with two five stars and a high four star incoming. Yeah- Barnes sucks.

In reality, Rick Barnes is like the Andy Reid of college hoops- great regular season coach, great eye for talent and how to utilize it, always makes the postseason, but always comes up short. And just like Andy Reid (prior to this past SB) Barnes is one title away from being a *lock* for the Hall of Fame. He's been that good for that long, and he's done it everywhere he's been. Andy Reid got his title this year, and he's going to the HOF. So will Barnes if he wins one in Knoxville.

But even if he doesn't win that national title, he is right there on the outside looking in on the HOF, which squarely puts him in the upper echelon of college basketball coaches, even if he's not in the very top group. He's going to hit 800 wins in the next 3-4 years, and he even has an outside shot at 900, coaching exclusively at football schools since 1994. There's a whole lot of our fans who need to stop hating and put some respect on that man's name, and start appreciating everything he did here while they're at it. If Shaka hasn't shown you just how good we had it under Barnes then nothing will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited April 8, 2020 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4275]

good lord, triple post on THAT post of all posts. shouts out tapatalk. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4275]

dp

Edited April 8, 2020 by Goo Punch

[immortal13 4059]

4 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

super long post incoming, and i'm putting a **SERIOUS** tag on it, because i'm not going to put this much time, thought, and effort into a post just so that herpa, immortal, deej, and the rest of children can scare off any adults who may actually be interested in discussing the thread/post topic by shitting all over everything before anyone else can even reply. 

Fuck you, Derka. Your post is proof positive that you perpetuate all this shit. Just stop

[immortal13 4059]

Thank you

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

6 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Over in the "Greatest White Players" thread I ended up talking about AJ Abrams, and wondering aloud why he isn't a bigger star/spoken about more often.

I can think of at least one reason he wouldn't be talked about in that context

[Goo Punch 4275]

from Seth Davis' Top 25 for 2021 list:




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Goo Punch 4275]

Vols sign transfer EJ Anosike from Sacred Heart. Big (6'6", 245 lb) and very athletic. Averaged 15.7 pts and 11.6 reb last year. Career 74% FT shooter. Looks like a good add to a team that needs some front court help. If the freshmen are ready to play the Vols could be pretty salty next year.

[LTtxfan 49352]

2 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

Vols sign transfer EJ Anosike from Sacred Heart. Big (6'6", 245 lb) and very athletic. Averaged 15.7 pts and 11.6 reb last year. Career 74% FT shooter. Looks like a good add to a team that needs some front court help. If the freshmen are ready to play the Vols could be pretty salty next year.

 

Yay!!!

 

[Goo Punch 4275]

 

[Wulaw Horn 19151]

I’m most excited about Texas recruiting class for next year. No players signed and Shaka coming back. Yeah baby!  

[Goo Punch 4275]

https://247sports.com/college/tennessee/Article/Tennessee-Vols-Basketball-Recruiting-Paolo-Banchero-Top-Six-146629686/Amp/ 

 

Tennessee basketball is one of the final six programs for five-star power forward Paolo Banchero, the No. 4 overall player in the class of 2021.

The 6-foot-9, 235-pound big man from Seattle, Wash., announced his top six schools on Twitter Wednesday afternoon, with the Vols surrounded by Washington, Gonzaga, Kentucky, Duke and Arizona.

[Goo Punch 4275]

 

 

 

[Herpa Derpa 6131]

[Goo Punch 4275]

 

[Brothahorn 10087]

Watching the 2009 game against UNC. I thought for sure we were on our way to being a legitimate basketball school after that game. We ran them out of the building..good times. One of the games I've ever seen in person.

[shadow_operative 15932]

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2020-07-14/tennessee-coach-rick-barnes-names-his-top-players-10-categories?amp

 

re are Rick Barnes' career top players in ten different categories: 

THE QUARTERBACK & THE CAPTAIN — T.J. FORD (TEXAS GUARD, 2001-2003)

Rick Barnes was not shy with his praise for his former guard who lands as not only Barnes' all-time playmaker but also his ultimate captain. 

"For the same reason if you had asked me why he's the captain is because he had the ability to make everybody understand exactly what they did well and if they did what they did well, we would be an outstanding team," Barnes said. "He understood how to put everybody in a position to make them flourish."

MORE MM365: Leonard Hamilton: College sports 'opened America's eyes' to the positives of diversity and integration

Ford's playmaking and leadership abilities helped push the Longhorns to a No. 1 seed in the 2003 NCAA tournament where they made it to the Final Four. The Texas guard averaged 12.9 points, 8.0 assists and 2.1 steals per game during his two years in Austin. 

THE CLUTCH GENE — BRIAN BODDICKER (TEXAS FORWARD, 2000-2004)

Brian Boddicker lands here as Rick Barnes' ultimate clutch player. He was also a part of that 2003 Final Four team. Barnes told Andy Katz a story of when he took Boddicker out of a game against rival Oklahomaonly to be convinced to put him back in by T.J. Ford — ultimately leading Texas to victory. 

"I kid you not in a matter of 40 seconds or so, Brian Boddicker hit three straight threes. Turned the whole momentum around in the game," Barnes said. "We end up winning the game and getting the No. 1 seed in the NCAA tournament."

Barnes also considered Clemson's Terrell McIntyre and Tennessee's Lamonte Turner for this category. 

THE ATHLETIC WONDER — YVES PONS (TENNESSEE FORWARD, 2017-PRESENT)

Yves Pons was the first to come to mind for Barnes for his ultimate athlete. Texas' Tristan Thompson and Damion James were also considered for this category.

"Yves Pons ...  is as athletic as any player that we've had," Barnes said. "His athleticism and what he does is pretty phenomenal." 

Pons averaged 10.8 points, 5.4 rebounds and 2.4 blocks per game this past season. The Tennessee forward is still deciding whether he will come back for his senior season. He entered the draft back in April but left the door open to return to Tennessee. Student-athletes have until Aug. 3 to withdraw from the draft and retain college eligibility.  

THE BUCKET-GETTER — KEVIN DURANT (TEXAS FORWARD, 2006-2007)

No surprise here. One of the most prolific scorers in basketball history lands as Rick Barnes' ultimate bucket-getter. 

"The best bucket-getter ever, Kevin Durant," Barnes said.

IZZO ISO: Tom Izzo builds his ultimate Michigan State dream player

Durant averaged 25.8 points and 11.1 rebounds per game during his one year at Texas. Durant was also considered for "the captain" category. Barnes also discussed another NBA player for the bucket-getter position in P.J. Tucker. Tucker played for Texas from 2003-2006. 

THE SHOOTER — A.J. ABRAMS (TEXAS GUARD, 2005-2009)

Barnes didn't hesitate when asked for his best shooter.

"No question, A.J Abrams," Barnes said. "Everybody I ask that's what they said, that was the answer of everybody — A.J. Abrams." 

Abrams played for four years under Barnes and scored nearly 2,000 career points for the Longhorns — a stat that's even more impressive considering that Abrams shared the court with the likes of Kevin Durant and LaMarcus Aldridge. The Texas guard was also lights out from three shooting a career 40-percent clip.

THE LOCKDOWN DEFENDER & THE GLUE GUY — ROYAL IVEY (TEXAS GUARD, 2000-2004)

Royal Ivey is the third player from Texas' 2003 Final Four squad to land on this list and the second player to be chosen for two different categories. Ivey played under Barnes for four years and was his best defender and glue guy. 

"Over a four-year career, I'm not sure anyone was better than Royal Ivey," Barnes said. "Royal was a guy, where he came in and where he started — just phenomenal." 

UNC GREATS: North Carolina coach Roy Williams names his top players in 10 categories

Barnes also considered Texas' Avery Bradley and Clemson's Greg Buckner for his best defender and Grant Williams for his ultimate glue guy. 

THE DIRTY WORKER — DAMION JAMES (TEXAS FORWARD, 2006-2010)

Damion James lands here as Barnes' player who could get under the basket, gobble up rebounds and do the dirty work. James was another guy who played for Barnes for four years. 

"Damion James, without question," Barnes said. "For a guy his size, that's what he wanted to do — he had a great passion." 

James averaged 9.3 rebounds per game but could also put the ball in the basket with an average of 13.5 points per game during his four years with Texas. Barnes also mentioned Chris Mihm, Yves Pons, James Thomas, Kyle Alexander and Tristan Thompson for this category. 

THE COACH — GRANT WILLIAMS (TENNESSEE FORWARD, 2016-2019)

Barnes taps Grant Williams as his coach on the floor. 

"From a purely a basketball understanding, (he) could remember everything from every position and understand what you're trying to do — Grant Williams would win that category," Barnes said. 

Williams, a consensus All-American and two-time SEC Player of the Year, led the Volunteers to a share of the SEC regular-season title and a No. 2 seed in the 2019 NCAA tournament. The Tennessee forward averaged 15.7 points, 6.5 rebounds and 1.5 blocks per game during his four-year stint in Knoxville. Outside of Williams, Barnes also mentioned T.J. Ford for this category

[shadow_operative 15932]

59 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

Watching the 2009 game against UNC. I thought for sure we were on our way to being a legitimate basketball school after that game. We ran them out of the building..good times. One of the games I've ever seen in person.

was also at that game, and the game a couple days later in Austin where we took care of Sparty. Texas was everyone's favorite team in the country, Damion James was being mentioned in NPOY talks, and we were on our way to the best season in Texas history. and then...

[shadow_operative 15932]

Kenpom posted this a year ago:



I just went and checked and we're now down to 11th, behind Gonzaga. Still pretty remarkable, and testament what Barnes did here considering how terrible we've been under Shaka the last five years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blotto 23574]

On 8/9/2020 at 8:19 PM, shadow_operative said:

Kenpom posted this a year ago:



I just went and checked and we're now down to 11th, behind Gonzaga. Still pretty remarkable, and testament what Barnes did here considering how terrible we've been under Shaka the last five years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I get that Pomroy is more of a statistical metric of all games played so they can conjure up their own definition of "best." But its kind of fucked up that UConn doesnt make that list. 

- Since '97, UConn had 8 years where they at least made the Elite 8, 5 of those years they made the Final 4, winning 4 national championships. 

- Over the same time period, Texas had 3 trips to the Elite 8, making it to the Final 4 once. 

- Conference championships, you ask? UConn has 6 regular season and 6 tournament titles. Texas managed 3 regular season and zero tournament titles. 

- Biggest difference really comes down to NCAA tournament records over that time frame: Calhoun (35-9 ) vs. Barnes  (19-16). 

[shadow_operative 15932]

assuming you meant 35-19 in the tourney, that's still pretty fucking sick. 

[Blotto 23574]

5 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

assuming you meant 35-19 in the tourney, that's still pretty fucking sick. 

Calhouns all-time tourney record is 50-19. But from 97-98 season until he retired in 2012, his NCAA tourney record was 35-9 (12 trips, 3 titles = 9 losses)

[shadow_operative 15932]

daaammmnnnn son. that's crazy. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

 

 

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

On 8/9/2020 at 6:17 PM, Brothahorn said:

Watching the 2009 game against UNC. I thought for sure we were on our way to being a legitimate basketball school after that game. We ran them out of the building..good times. One of the games I've ever seen in person.

Thought the same, but by the time we scraped by A&M a few weeks later, that magic had gone-- I remember being really really frustrated by how hard everything looked against A&M. At the time, I thought it was me. The way the rest of the season went, though, just proved I was instinctively onto something.

Corpus Christi was the harbinger, but that was just one game and as bad as we were that day, we still had some good performances to come. But starting with the A&M game, the way that team played basketball wasn't the least bit joyous, free, or aggressive. We were somehow rushing and late at the same time. Aggressively making errors, tentatively blowing open opportunities. It's the most Jekyll and Hyde season I've ever seen out of a team that didn't have an obvious reason for it (e.g., a one-man team whose best player gets injured, like Tate Armstrong at Duke or Jay Burson at Ohio State). 

hey thanks for the memories, thanks for bringing it up, ASS

[shadow_operative 15932]

Big time coup just now for Rick and the Vols. 5 star PG Kennedy Chandler just chose Tennessee over Memphis, UNC, UK, and Duke. If Yves Pons returns for this upcoming season then the Vols may be on the verge of a sustained period of excellence. Barnes has been killing it on the recruiting front, and I love that his work at Texas is the basis of so much of his recruiting pitch. This kid wants to be the next TJ Ford. That's badass. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15932]

 

 

[shadow_operative 15932]

it's kind of funny how bloodthirsty most of the people on this site are when someone gets something wrong (see: me being wrong about Ehlinger), yet very few (if any?) UT hoops fans have been able to admit that they were wrong about Barnes. hey, we're all wrong every now and then, so no big deal, right? he's a great guy, our program never got in trouble, he's the best coach in program history by a million miles, he brought us TJ, KD, AJ, PJ, DJ, three league titles, the Final Four, et al. it should be easy to let bygones be bygones and be happy for the man and root for him. and yet so few can seem to do that. strange. 

[Dbeasy 15091]

it's kind of funny how bloodthirsty most of the people on this site are when someone gets something wrong (see: me being wrong about Ehlinger), yet very few (if any?) UT hoops fans have been able to admit that they were wrong about Barnes. hey, we're all wrong every now and then, so no big deal, right? he's a great guy, our program never got in trouble, he's the best coach in program history by a million miles, he brought us TJ, KD, AJ, PJ, DJ, three league titles, the Final Four, et al. it should be easy to let bygones be bygones and be happy for the man and root for him. and yet so few can seem to do that. strange. 

Fans were wrong about Barnes in what way?

[shadow_operative 15932]

21 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

Fans were wrong about Barnes in what way?

uhhhh......do you really not remember? i mean the general consensus was that he's an asshole, a terrible coach, the worst tourney coach ever, and a guy who gets less out of great talent than anybody else would. i mean seriously, the vitriol and hatred and just straight up biased and incorrect assessments of him as a man and a coach were as prevalent around here (and TOS) as one of my interminable seven-paragraph posts. it's hard to remember Texas fans being more wrong about anything.

our fans crushed Rick Barnes for being "too hard" on his players. now we've had five years of the opposite of that, while Rick is killing it at Tennessee where his players/recruits love how demanding he is, and yet it still hasn't sunk in for most of our fans that they were wrong. not sure what else needs to happen for our fans to see it. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15932]

Post A Gif About Rick Barnes

edit: oh yeah, this thread reminds me of how many of our fans also said that he was one of the worst offensive coaches around.

the fact is he's one of the better offensive coaches in the country, with the stats to back it up. at Texas we were perennially top 10-20ish in AdjO, and often among the national leaders in the country in PPG and assists. It's just remarkable how many ways our fans have been dead wrong about the guy. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15932]

lol, reading through some threads about Barnes on TOS, and it's hilarious:

•"Rick just couldn't handle coaching in the Big XII." lol, he's probably the second best/most accomplished coach in league history, and was KU's biggest threat while he was here, but sure. great take.

•"Tom Penders did WAY more with less talent than Rick Barnes ever did!." yes, someone said that.

•"Rick Barnes will never get Tennessee to the tourney."

•"Rick Barnes is a piece of shit  coach."

•"Do we start feeling bad for the Vols, knowing they're wasting their time with this schlub?"

amd i'm only on page 2 of a thread that isn't even an anti-Barnes thread:

http://www.shaggytexas.com/board/showthread.php/165302-Ricktators-other-UT-season-thread

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by shadow_operative

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

10 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

uhhhh......do you really not remember?

I remember that he needed to be fired. The fact that we botched the replacement hiring doesn't change how stale the program had gotten by 2015 after years of stagnation. 

For all his success at Tennessee-- which is "one conference co-championship and one Sweet 16 appearance in five full years"-- Barnes is also only about a million dollars or whatever the buyout differential was from being the head coach at UCLA and having Knoxville too in his rearview mirror. This seems to be a marriage of convenience more than a renaissance for anyone involved. 

Given that Tennessee is coming off a 14-loss season, we might want to wait to see what Barnes can manage on the court this season (assuming their is one) before confusing "signing an elite prospect" with "getting jack shit done on the court", because we were still making that same mistake right through the point Barnes mismanaged Myles Turner and the 2015 season. EDIT-- my point there being, he signed a 5-star guard; that's awesome for him/them, that should make a difference, but recruiting well isn't the finish line. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by SwanderedTalent

[shadow_operative 15932]

1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I remember that he needed to be fired. The fact that we botched the replacement hiring doesn't change how stale the program had gotten by 2015 after years of stagnation. 

For all his success at Tennessee-- which is "one conference co-championship and one Sweet 16 appearance in five full years"-- Barnes is also only about a million dollars or whatever the buyout differential was from being the head coach at UCLA and having Knoxville too in his rearview mirror. This seems to be a marriage of convenience more than a renaissance for anyone involved. 

Given that Tennessee is coming off a 14-loss season, we might want to wait to see what Barnes can manage on the court this season (assuming their is one) before confusing "signing an elite prospect" with "getting jack shit done on the court", because we were still making that same mistake right through the point Barnes mismanaged Myles Turner and the 2015 season. EDIT-- my point there being, he signed a 5-star guard; that's awesome for him/them, that should make a difference, but recruiting well isn't the finish line. 

this doesn't even address my point, and it ignores every quote that I cited. is Rick Barnes a piece of shit coach? has Tennessee made the tourney? do we feel sorry for Tennessee and their lame duck coach? no. so then those people (and many many more who claimed that he was a terrible coach) were wrong about him. period.

[shadow_operative 15932]

also, define "on court success". he's already taken a bunch of 2-star recruits and won his league with them. Tennessee's final kenpom ranking Barnes' first four years at Tennessee: 103, 57, 13, 10. Does "vastly exceeding every single Vols' fans wildest expectations within four seasons count as successful? and that was with the recruits that nobody wanted. now he's bringing in multiple elite classes in a row and has the Vols back in the preseason polls with high expectations. sounds pretty damn successful to me. 

[Dbeasy 15091]

There will always be fans who hate the coach, unless that coach has a record like Eddie Reese. Most of those fans are just unknowledgeable.

For knowledgeable fans, the issue with Barnes wasn’t that they thought he sucked all along, it’s that he slowly started mysteriously underperforming for several years. For a long time he was elevating the Texas program to a level it had never achieved before and most knowledgeable fans appreciated that and understood that.

However, once it we became clear why he mysteriously started to underperform for several years, the administration had no other choice but to part ways with him, and you can’t blame fans for stating - correctly, that he had become a bad coach. He had become bad due to his condition.

The fact that he’s now recovered and back to coaching at an elite level again isn’t an argument that fans shouldn’t have called him out. They should have. His behavior is what caused the problems in the first place.

[shadow_operative 15932]

8 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

There will always be fans who hate the coach, unless that coach has a record like Eddie Reese. Most of those fans are just unknowledgeable.

For knowledgeable fans, the issue with Barnes wasn’t that they thought he sucked all along, it’s that he slowly started mysteriously underperforming for several years. For a long time he was elevating the Texas program to a level it had never achieved before and most knowledgeable fans appreciated that and understood that.

However, once it we became clear why he mysteriously started to underperform for several years, the administration had no other choice but to part ways with him, and you can’t blame fans for stating - correctly, that he had become a bad coach. He had become bad due to his condition.

The fact that he’s now recovered and back to coaching at an elite level again isn’t an argument that fans shouldn’t have called him out. They should have. His behavior is what caused the problems in the first place.

you also must not remember shaggy. a)90%+ of our fans from that board were neither knowledgeable nor reasonable, and b)i'm not calling out those who were. i just linked two different threads and cited i don't know how many specific quotes that were not at all in line with what you're describing. the overwhelming majority of shaggy hoops fans shared the sentiment that Barnes was a piece of shit coach who couldn't coach offense and whom Tennessee was stupid for hiring, all of which is factually wrong. and while i appreciate yours and ST's post, your responses aren't germane to the points i'm making. 

Edited August 15, 2020 by shadow_operative

[Herpa Derpa 6131]

So I guess we've met Derka's new sock.

[Dbeasy 15091]

1 hour ago, shadow_operative said:

you also must not remember shaggy. a)90%+ of our fans from that board were neither knowledgeable nor reasonable, and b)i'm not calling out those who were. i just linked two different threads and cited i don't know how many specific quotes that were not at all in line with what you're describing. the overwhelming majority of shaggy hoops fans shared the sentiment that Barnes was a piece of shit coach who couldn't coach offense and whom Tennessee was stupid for hiring, all of which is factually wrong. and while i appreciate yours and ST's post, your responses aren't germane to the points i'm making. 

So you want the 90% of fans who don't really understand basketball to acknowledge he was a great coach, when in the last several years of his tenure at Texas he was a bad coach - by his own admission, by the way.

The guy was a train wreck in his personal life the last several years before he got fired. He did suck during that time. There is zero debate about that. And if you don't agree, you need to take it up with Barnes himself who admitted that his condition made him a bad coach during that time period.  At that point in time, any fan arguing that he sucked and saying Tennessee was stupid for hiring him wasn't wrong based upon the situation. Had fans known the real situation with him, they may not have judged him so harshly and given him the benefit of the doubt about getting his personal life back together. But they didn't.

[Blotto 23574]

15 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

uhhhh......do you really not remember? i mean the general consensus was that he's an asshole, a terrible coach, the worst tourney coach ever, and a guy who gets less out of great talent than anybody else would. i mean seriously, the vitriol and hatred and just straight up biased and incorrect assessments of him as a man and a coach were as prevalent around here (and TOS) as one of my interminable seven-paragraph posts. it's hard to remember Texas fans being more wrong about anything.

our fans crushed Rick Barnes for being "too hard" on his players. now we've had five years of the opposite of that, while Rick is killing it at Tennessee where his players/recruits love how demanding he is, and yet it still hasn't sunk in for most of our fans that they were wrong. not sure what else needs to happen for our fans to see it. 

well technically not the worst EVER. but you gotta scroll a long fucking way (keep scrolling). Great coach when it comes to getting in the tourney. Fucking brutal record when he gets there. The sample size is too large to ignore. I don't hate Barnes. I actually root for him at Tenn. But I still think canning his ass was the correct move. Hiring Shaka was not. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jim-boeheim-is-the-new-king-of-march-madness/