Rick Barnes thread

[LTtxfan 49,148]

2 hours ago, MotownHorn said:

Here’s statistical analysis from 2018 showing Barnes ranking 558th out of 560 at coaching in the tournament in terms of wins over expected wins.

Since this analysis was done Barnes has lost as a 3 to an 11, a 2 to a 3, and a 5 to a 12

In other words, his wins over expected wins stat has gotten EVEN WORSE since he was ranked 558th out of 560

This conversation is stupid and I’m not having it anymore. You can call me names because your favorite basketball coach objectively sucks as much as you like, derka. Have at it!

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jim-boeheim-is-the-new-king-of-march-madness/

 

Can't trust stats that show Shaka as #88

[shadow_operative 15,932]

54 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

No, his tournament record is bad for being such a large sample size and for having so much talent.  A Longhorn message board thread didn’t debunk the 538 analysis.  The numbers are what they are.

this is where i find that you can have a really interesting conversation about Barnes as a tourney coach. here's why: his best teams have done well in the tournament, however, his most talented teams have not always been his best teams. 2003, 2006, and 2011 were Rick's best teams. 2003 they go to the final four; 2006 they go to the Elite 8 and lose when his talent shits the bed; the 2011 team was absolutely boned out of a place in the S16, and given a terrible seed with two very tough opponents. you can't say that he wasted those teams in the tourney.

however, his most talented team at Texas was the 09-10 team, and they realistically should have been the no.1 or no.2 overall seed (so, a 1 seed) and a legit title favorite. Instead they ended up losing an 8 vs 9 game in OT. and then of course his team with his most talented player got blown out on the second round by USC. Barnes deserves the blame for those two talented teams not going further, but again, neither the 2007 nor the 2010 teams ended up being among the *best* actual teams that he coached. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

Just now, LTtxfan said:

 

Can't trust stats that show Shaka as #88

i didn't feel like going back over those rankings to point out their illegitimacy because it's been done so many times before, but there you go: that 538 article says that Shaka Smart is the #88 tourney coach, with Rick Barnes being #558. Shaka makes the tourney three times at Texas and:

•loses to Northern Iowa

•blows a 14 point second half lead to Nevada

•loses to ACU in the biggest mismatch in the entire tournament

and yet the 538 article says that he's 400 spots ahead of Rick Barnes as a tourney coach (yes i know the article was made before all of these results). it just goes to show how flawed their methodology was when making said rankings.

[MotownHorn 1,760]

9 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

the 538 article is based on how you do vs your seed. losing a bunch of 4 vs 5 and 8 vs 9 games as the higher seed does not equal "bottom 0.2% of tourney coaches." that's frankly asinine. Rick Barnes is not a good tourney coach, but he is FAR from being the worst. anything that ranks him 558 out if 560 is patently flawed. 

He lost as a 3 to an 11 and 5 to a 12 in 2 of his last 3 appearances. 

was Rick your first kiss? Did he take your virginity? The blind allegiance is just amazing.

[MotownHorn 1,760]

9 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

i didn't feel like going back over those rankings to point out their illegitimacy because it's been done so many times before, but there you go: that 538 article says that Shaka Smart is the #88 tourney coach, with Rick Barnes being #558. Shaka makes the tourney three times at Texas and:

•loses to Northern Iowa

•blows a 14 point second half lead to Nevada

•loses to ACU in the biggest mismatch in the entire tournament

and yet the 538 article says that he's 400 spots ahead of Rick Barnes as a tourney coach (yes i know the article was made before all of these results). it just goes to show how flawed their methodology was when making said rankings.

that’s because 2 out of 3 of those appearances occurred after early March 2018 and thus they aren’t included in the analysis, bird brain. 
 

Shaka would definitely be way lower than 88 in an updated analysis. Just like Rick would be way lower than (checks notes)…558 😂

bye bye now clown 👋🏼

Edited February 15, 2022 by MotownHorn

[shadow_operative 15,932]

great job leaving this dumb conversation so that we could all continue to call you names. you nailed it.

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

I think the best thing about the Beard era is I no longer miss Rick Barnes. 
hope for nothing but the best for Rick. Would love to see him make another final four or even win it all if it isn’t at our expense blah blah blah. But. Ow feel like we have the coach we should have for this moment in time. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

35 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I think the best thing about the Beard era is I no longer miss Rick Barnes. 
hope for nothing but the best for Rick. Would love to see him make another final four or even win it all if it isn’t at our expense blah blah blah. But. Ow feel like we have the coach we should have for this moment in time. 

Beard being mentored by Barnes and sharing many of the same traits and qualities as Rick makes it feel "right" to me. so many real deal basketball programs have a culture, an identity, one that lasts even beyond the tenure of the coach who instilled it. whether it's a culture of toughness from a Big East team, or a culture of high paced, flashy play from an ACC team, or there's a certain system in place that brings in the same type of player year after year. whatever it is, it draws people in. fans, foes, and neutrals alike.

under Rick Barnes we knew exactly who we were, and so did everybody else. we were tough, and physical, and we played hard, and crashed the boards, and left you looking black and blue when the game was over. from the biggest stars (TJ and KD) to the role players (James Thomas and Fredie Williams), we had attitude and toughness. that's what embodied Texas basketball. it wasn't always pretty (although it was beautiful under TJ, DJ, and KD), but we were tough and competitive. 

we lost that identity towards the end of Rick's time here when he pulled back and softened up, and when his players all decided that he was too mean to play for. and left. the guy who replaced Barnes had no identity, and therefore neither did Texas Basketball. less than one year into the Beard era it's clear that Texas once again has an identity, and it happens to be extremely similar to the one we had during our halcyon days of the aughts.

you can't win in the tournament without an identity. you have to have a spine, and something to fall back on whenever the shots aren't falling. i can't even put into words how much more faith i have in this program right now than i have at any point over the past 5+ years. you have to have an identity before you can win. we have that again. the future looks very very bright.

Edited February 15, 2022 by shadow_operative

[Underdog 28,585]

So…. About this game tonight.  Thoughts. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

if the Vols shoot lights out then they've got a chance, but they have no answer for Tshibwe. none. i have a very hard time seeing Tennessee winning this game unless OT gets into foul trouble and the Vols shoot 50% from deep. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

Vols up 32-20 at the U8 timeout. how quickly can we collect some funds to throw on the Kentucky ML?

[shadow_operative 15,932]

just checking the box score, and Tennessee is shooting lights out. they have 9 assists on 13 made buckets. 

[CurlyDumps 4,468]

Kentucky on a 9:30 FG drought, that feels familiar.

[CurlyDumps 4,468]

...and a three finally ends the FG drought at 11:30. Over half the period.

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

There’s a lot of game left. Cmon Rick hold on to this shit. Help yourself and us while you are at it. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

intense second half. UK went on a 9-0 run but Tennessee just answered. lots of big athletes flying around out there. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

Yeah don’t love how this half is going. This was my concern. Absolutely know Kentucky is making a run. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

talking about Barnes developing talent, Ziegler (who just swished a three) is his latest:

5'9" with 236 guys in his senior class ranked ahead of him, and yet he's one of Tennessee's most important players as a true freshman. very fun player to watch. 

[Brian Fantana 6,682]

2 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah don’t love how this half is going. This was my concern. Absolutely know Kentucky is making a run. 

Are we watching the same game

[shadow_operative 15,932]

the Tennessee guards have led a 12-2 run that's been quite fun to watch. i really wish all three would return next year, as i think that a year of being the leader and star on a potential Final Four team would be better for Chandler's development than spending a year as a JAG on some G League team. still, i expect him to go pro even though he'll be taken in the later part of the first round. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

5 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Are we watching the same game

UK was on a run and had taken the lead from 17 down to 8 when he typed that. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

i think Ziegler is my favorite non-Texas player in the country. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

20 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Are we watching the same game

I was behind a bit and Kentucky was on a 9-0 run. Tennessee answered it very well. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

Zeigler is so fun to watch.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

On 1/17/2022 at 1:19 PM, Knoxtnhorn said:

He's turning into persona non grata in Knoxville.  There are a few that have his back; however, this recent slate of games have not helped him at all.

this is less than a month ago. let's check in on those badass, loyal, grateful Tennessee basketball fans:

btw Barnes is now 9-7 vs Kentucky at Tennessee. the same Rick Barnes who had the best record vs both Roy Williams and Bill Self when he was at Texas. but yeah, let's listen to the awesome hoops fans in knoxville, and motownhorn- rick barnes really sucks. 

you know what i'd pay to see? Chris Beard, Kevin Durant, TJ Ford, and Motownhorn doing a round table discussion on Rick Barnes as a coach. god damn that would be hilarious to watch. 

 

[CurlyDumps 4,468]

Mr. Non Grata has a Kenpom top 10 squad and just beat Kentucky. That win in Austin is looking better and better.

[texasstrong12 4,668]

Tennessee has 3 quick and legit defensive guards. When you can hedge everything on the perimeter like they do it makes things hell for college teams that aren't great offensively. 

As we saw in Austin. 

I think Tennessee has the best defensive back court in the country with Zeigler, Chandler, and Vescovi. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

you never know what you're going to get offensively, but that defense is legit.

which makes a fully healthy UK look that much scarier, knowing that they dropped 107 on Tennessee in Lexington. 

[4doorsMoreWhores 107]

On 2/14/2022 at 6:21 PM, MotownHorn said:

Here’s statistical analysis from 2018 showing Barnes ranking 558th out of 560 at coaching in the tournament in terms of wins over expected wins.

 

 

[texasstrong12 4,668]

Beard will have that type defense here soon at Texas. It's actually kind of remarkable Texas has a top 10 defense with the lack of athleticism this team has. I've had plenty of questions about Beard's offensive approach but that dude can absolutely coach defense. 

Once Beard starts getting Zeigler and Chandler type athletes into the system Beard is going to have top 5 defenses here on a yearly basis. 

 

[Knoxtnhorn 5,971]

On 2/15/2022 at 10:28 PM, shadow_operative said:

this is less than a month ago. let's check in on those badass, loyal, grateful Tennessee basketball fans:

btw Barnes is now 9-7 vs Kentucky at Tennessee. the same Rick Barnes who had the best record vs both Roy Williams and Bill Self when he was at Texas. but yeah, let's listen to the awesome hoops fans in knoxville, and motownhorn- rick barnes really sucks. 

you know what i'd pay to see? Chris Beard, Kevin Durant, TJ Ford, and Motownhorn doing a round table discussion on Rick Barnes as a coach. god damn that would be hilarious to watch. 

 

Just a reminder.  I'm not a Vol.  My wife is, and I lived in Knoxville for 18 years.  I was just passing along info via Volnation, which I still read for shits and giggles.

And, +1 on Zeigler.  He was badass during the game in Austin.  If I didn't already know, I would have assumed he was the hotshot 5 star; not Chandler.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

Tennessee has come back from downtown to take a four-point Leeda late in the second half against Auburn. Would be a huge win for the Vols if they can hold on. 47-43 with 6:47 to go. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

Should be about ballgame with the fighting Rick Barnes up 11 with 3:38 to go. Fuck Pearl and go Barnes go. 

[Herpa Derpa 6,124]

14 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

come back from downtown to take a four-point Leeda

Kids talk weird these days.

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

What a nightmare last 10 minutes of real time (and 1 or so minute of game time). Auburn at the line to finish off a 4 point play and cut deficit to 3. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

Dodged the bullet!  6 hopper on the rim drops and Auburn misses the 3. Should be good!  

[Braff Zacklin 13,556]

The Vols' only losses are to Villanova (BPI No.5), Texas Tech (No.11), Alabama (No.21), LSU (No.14), Kentucky (No.3), Texas (No.17), and Arkansas (No.20). They've avenged two of those defeats and have a chance to make it three at home versus Arkansas a week from Monday.

Pretty salty fucking team.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

32 minutes ago, Herpa Derpa said:

Kids talk weird these days.

lol, come back from down ten*. they came back from down 10, then got up by 10, then saw Auburn score 7 points in 17 seconds during the final minute to make it a game again. still, good job by the Vols to earn the win. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

FULL ON DERKA DIATRIBE INCOMING:

just be thankful that i didn't type all of that out. 

 

[CurlyDumps 4,468]

15 minutes?! Wtf?

Where’s part II?

[shadow_operative 15,932]

 

$276,000 been raised so far. 

[shadow_operative 15,932]

Here's every Tennessee loss this year (with kenpom rankings attached)-

#12 Villanova, neutral court

#10 TTU, in OT, neutral court 

at #21 Alabama

at #18 LSU

at #4 Kentucky 

at #15 Texas

at #19 Arkansas

so even if they lose the season finale at home vs Arkie, they'll finish with no losses to anyone ranked outside of the kenpom top 21. Rick has done a really good job with this team after losing three guys to the draft and then losing one of their best players halfway through conference play. truly one of his better coaching jobs.

oh yeah, they've got some wins too:

#38 UNC by 17

#3 Arizona 

#18 LSU by 14

#4 Kentucky by 14

#7 Auburn

again with a chance to beat Arkansas this weekend. still, i can't help but feel that Tennessee making the S16 is a coin flip at best. this another classic Rick Barnes team that probably overachieves during the regular season just to underachieve in the tourney, but i'll hold out hope that he can exceed tourney expectations one if these years. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,068]

Ricktator got his boys up early looking to avenge the loss to the swine. 

[Underdog 28,585]

Things tend to slow down a bit in the tournament what with teams playing tight, longer tv timeouts.  If you can play D and rebound, you more than a punchers chance and the Vols can do both.  A S16 is not out of the realm for them.  And go figure the Hogs come out cold a week later. 

[LTtxfan 49,148]

Damn, Vols with 50pts at half and a big lead.... now up only by 4pts with 1:25 left in game.

74-70 Vols lead Arky...

 

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by LTtxfan

[LTtxfan 49,148]

Damn Arky had ball down 74-72 with 30secs left, and threw ball away...

Edit:  14.8 secs left.  76-74 and Vols shoot free throws.  Make only 1shot

77-74 Vols lead

 

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by LTtxfan

[Pato del Muerto 52,487]

On 3/2/2022 at 8:03 PM, shadow_operative said:

 

$276,000 been raised so far. 

This isn’t the place for this, so ignore if you wish, but when these things raise much more than asked for do they just let it keep going and keep the overage?  
 

In this case, there’s a finite cost involved. Maybe it’s 50k or maybe that’s all they were comfortable asking for initially. But for the sake of this argument, if 200k is what it takes to replace everything then do they just throw the balance in savings?

Edited March 5, 2022 by Pato del Muerto

[LTtxfan 49,148]

Vols win... 78-74

[SL Xpress 7,513]

4 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

This isn’t the place for this, so ignore if you wish, but when these things raise much more than asked for do they just let it keep going and keep the overage?  
 

In this case, there’s a finite cost involved. Maybe it’s 50k or maybe that’s all they were comfortable asking for initially. But for the sake of this argument, if 200k is what it takes to replace everything then do they just throw the balance in savings?

Or spend it on hookers and blow. It's not like there's an auditing mechanism. It's their money at that point.

[shadow_operative 15,932]

so much for that "all of his teams get worse as the year goes on" idea.
 

from 12-5 to 23-7. The Vols were 12-2 to close the season with road losses to Texas and Arkansas, plus wins over LSU, Kentucky, Auburn, and home revenge vs the hogs. They finished tied for second in the SEC with Kentucky, and ended the season with 4 straight wins, which no other SEC team did. Definitely a great regular season coaching job by Coach Barnes.

Tennessee's final kenpom ratings:

outstanding defense, but an offense that's hit-or-miss. if Tennessee were to get hot on offense they absolutely could go to the FF. however, having watched them all year, i think they're far more likely to find themselves in a coin flip game in the round of 32. the guards have to shine for Tennessee to advance. Zeigler, Chandler, Vescovi, and JJJ will determine how far this team goes in the postseason.  

Edited March 7, 2022 by shadow_operative