Jump to content

Rick Barnes thread

Goo Punch

By Goo Punch
in Basketball

 Share

Recommended Posts

shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Blotto said:
well technically not the worst EVER. but you gotta scroll a long fucking way (keep scrolling). Great coach when it comes to getting in the tourney. Fucking brutal record when he gets there. The sample size is too large to ignore. I don't hate Barnes. I actually root for him at Tenn. But I still think canning his ass was the correct move. Hiring Shaka was not. 
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jim-boeheim-is-the-new-king-of-march-madness/


that's an old article which was talked about a ton on TOS, and the consensus was/is that the list was BS, and that the formula used unfairly punished successful coaches who've been coaching a long time/making the tourney year after year. that list had Shaka Smart 400 places ahead of Barnes, which is obviously laughable.

The truth is that Barnes is a mediocre-average tourney coach whose teams virtually always play to their seed. in 20+ tourney appearances he's had a major upset, what, once? To characterize him as a "brutal" tourney coach is simply way off the mark. He's a screen cap from one of the threads about this on TOS:

720ba9fe8374b5e1434192a17f922200.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by shadow_operative
Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 2.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

justhookit
justhookit

Our basketball “fans” suck. Y’all are on here shitting on a coach that was far and away the best we’ve ever had here. It’s not even close. Did the end of his tenure suck? Sure it did. But he put us on

HookEm
HookEm

Hard to hate Barnes. He is the best coach in our program's history. I don't fault Patterson for forcing him to make staff changes. We were underachieving given the program's resources. But it spe

MotownHorn
MotownHorn

Another year another Rick Barnes special in the tournament 

Posted Images

shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

So you want the 90% of fans who don't really understand basketball to acknowledge he was a great coach, when in the last several years of his tenure at Texas he was a bad coach - by his own admission, by the way.

The guy was a train wreck in his personal life the last several years before he got fired. He did suck during that time. There is zero debate about that. And if you don't agree, you need to take it up with Barnes himself who admitted that his condition made him a bad coach during that time period.  At that point in time, any fan arguing that he sucked and saying Tennessee was stupid for hiring him wasn't wrong based upon the situation. Had fans known the real situation with him, they may not have judged him so harshly and given him the benefit of the doubt about getting his personal life back together. But they didn't.

you keep posting words at me without ever addressing what i'm actually saying. stop doing that. i've posted the receipts; the point i'm making is crystal clear. either address what i've actually said, or stop replying. jesus.

Edited by shadow_operative
Link to comment
Share on other sites
immortal13

immortal13 4059

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, Blotto said:

well technically not the worst EVER. but you gotta scroll a long fucking way (keep scrolling). Great coach when it comes to getting in the tourney. Fucking brutal record when he gets there. The sample size is too large to ignore. I don't hate Barnes. I actually root for him at Tenn. But I still think canning his ass was the correct move. Hiring Shaka was not. 

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jim-boeheim-is-the-new-king-of-march-madness/

/lockthread

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Blotto

Blotto 23538

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

that's an old article which was talked about a ton on TOS, and the consensus was/is that the list was BS, and that the formula used unfairly punished successful coaches who've been coaching a long time/making the tourney year after year. that list had Shaka Smart 400 places ahead of Barnes, which is obviously laughable.

I ain't buying it. He finished fucking last out of 559 coaches. But fine, to humor you lets compare Barnes to the other coaches you associate him with. If I drop that list into Excel, total the  # of tournament games coached,  and then eliminate everybody that has coached in less than 20 NCAA tournament games, it arguably looks worse for Barnes. There are now 51 coaches, so it eliminates about 90% of the riff-raff. Barnes is obviously still in last place, but what you notice is that only 13 of the remaining coaches have a win total worse than their expected win total. Reducing the data set to peers that have coached in at least 20 tournament games makes Barnes' performance (-4.1 wins) to average (+1.8 wins) noticeably worse, which just reinforces the point that Barnes is a historically shitty tournament coach.

Most coaches that have coached in a lot of tourney games apparently  manage to exceed expectation occasionally and get hot. But not Barnes. Lets consider his best run in 2003. He got a little lucky and played teams seeded lower than would be expected (16,9,5,7,3) vs (16,8,4,2,1), but you can only play the teams that make it, so I don't hold that against him.  Oh hey, look at that....Boeheim wins it all as a #3 seed and Izzo makes the Elite 8 as a #7 seed, both significantly exceeding seeding expectations. How can that be? Who knows, it must be sorcery because Barnes hasn't ever figured out how to do that in 24 trips to the tournament.

image.thumb.png.00e07fb326232ff5d9a6dce026157e49.png

Fucking lulz at #12. 

Edited by Blotto
  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Blotto

Blotto 23538

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I question the value of a methodology that says there were 46 better tournament coaches than Bob Knight.

Yeah, Knight gets screwed here because he is old as dirt and this data set starts in 1985, which eliminates the majority of his success (2 national championships, 1 final 4, and 2 elite eight runs). For the portion of his career that is captured here, you have 19 tournaments with one great run (87 championship) but 9 first round exits and 3 second round exits. The back half of his career was not nearly as successful as the first half. If the dataset used games from 1970 on, he would be much, much higher.

As Barnes started coaching in 87-88, the entirety of his career vs his peers is represented in this data.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CurlyDumps

CurlyDumps 4476

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Blotto said:

 For the portion of his career that is captured here, you have 19 tournaments with one great run (87 championship) but 9 first round exits and 3 second round exits. The back half of his career was not nearly as successful as the first half.

Thread plot twist:

Bobby Knight is overrated!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...
Js1

Js1 85372

Posted
Posted
On 8/15/2020 at 10:57 AM, Dbeasy said:

There will always be fans who hate the coach, unless that coach has a record like Eddie Reese. Most of those fans are just unknowledgeable.

For knowledgeable fans, the issue with Barnes wasn’t that they thought he sucked all along, it’s that he slowly started mysteriously underperforming for several years. For a long time he was elevating the Texas program to a level it had never achieved before and most knowledgeable fans appreciated that and understood that.

However, once it we became clear why he mysteriously started to underperform for several years, the administration had no other choice but to part ways with him, and you can’t blame fans for stating - correctly, that he had become a bad coach. He had become bad due to his condition.

The fact that he’s now recovered and back to coaching at an elite level again isn’t an argument that fans shouldn’t have called him out. They should have. His behavior is what caused the problems in the first place.

THIS. If Mack wins a title at UNC, it doesn't make 2010-2013 at Texas any different. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Braff Zacklin

Braff Zacklin 13616

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Js1 said:

THIS. If Mack wins a title at UNC, it doesn't make 2010-2013 at Texas any different. 

True. However, when considering Mack and Rick's entire tenures on the Forty, the good far outweighs the bad. Yet so many here are so bitter ...

I don't follow Volunteers basketball or Tarheels football, but I am happy when either coach does well. My association with both is overwhelmingly positive. Doesn't mean I don't think it was time for them to go, though.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

Posted
Posted (edited)

edit- talking ti JD1 and dbeasy, not Braff.

 

it's funny watching you guys bend over backwards to avoid replying to what i've explicitly stated about the situation ad nauseam. i've literally posted the actual quotes, and you're still replying to your own made up crap. nobody said "Rick Barnes is no longer a good coach." nobody.

i've posted the exact quotes time and time again and you refuse to address them or even acknowledge their existence. not that i should even need to post the specific quotes- as if you all are completely unaware of all of the absolutely insane and flat out *wrong* things that were said about the man, things which nobody is man enough to eat crow for. "but UT fans weren't wrong about Rick Barnes." on what fucking planet?!?! you're either so self deluded that you've erased your memory of the past 6-9 years, or you're too proud to admit that anyone was wrong about him. either way it's pathetic and embarrassing. 

Edited by shadow_operative
Link to comment
Share on other sites
shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

Posted
Posted

simply put- the idea that Texas basketball fans, *particularly those on shaggy*, were neither wrong nor out of line with their feelings about/treatment of Rick Barnes is so fucking stupid it's insulting.

and, being that people like @Dbeasy were actually fucking there to witness the insane and vitriolic and incessant abuse that I took for years for defending Barnes, only to have Dbeasy come here and claim that nobody needs to eat crow for what they said makes dbeasy a real piece of shit in my book. get fucked. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

Posted
Posted

Lord this is a great defensive team. With all of the time they've had off these Vols are looking better than I thought they would at this stage. Currently up on App State 43-14 nearing the U16 TO of the 2H. They actually have the athletes to match up with us believe it or not. If we were to meet Tennessee in the tourney you might see the winning team scoring 60. Crazy athleticism and defense all over this team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ClubWhatever

ClubWhatever 12144

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

Lord this is a great defensive team. With all of the time they've had off these Vols are looking better than I thought they would at this stage. Currently up on App State 43-14 nearing the U16 TO of the 2H. They actually have the athletes to match up with us believe it or not. If we were to meet Tennessee in the tourney you might see the winning team scoring 60. Crazy athleticism and defense all over this team.

I was wondering where Derka went. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19077

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Clintonaldo said:


It’s hard to argue with you at this point. I am just going to enjoy it while I can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And that should be what we all do at all times with sports. There’s only 1 team that hoists a trophy and 29-356 other teams depending upon the sport and level of the sport that aren’t at the end of every season. If the recipe for success and fulfillment is being the last team standing and you can’t take joy in the journey you probably should do something else. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Narrator “they won’t”. 
and I say that as Barnes second biggest fan on this board. 

hey now...if it was ever going to happen, then a season which starts in 2020 is when it would happen. besides, with the Vols' schedule being sliced and diced, it's going to play right into Rick Barnes'a hands: his teams usually peak in February, or around games 20-25 of their season. this year those games will be postseason games. it may just be the miracle he needs to peak at the right time. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19077

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

hey now...if it was ever going to happen, then a season which starts in 2020 is when it would happen. besides, with the Vols' schedule being sliced and diced, it's going to play right into Rick Barnes'a hands: his teams usually peak in February, or around games 20-25 of their season. this year those games will be postseason games. it may just be the miracle he needs to peak at the right time. 

Perhaps. I’d be very very happy for him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
shadow_operative

shadow_operative 15932

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

And that should be what we all do at all times with sports. There’s only 1 team that hoists a trophy and 29-356 other teams depending upon the sport and level of the sport that aren’t at the end of every season. If the recipe for success and fulfillment is being the last team standing and you can’t take joy in the journey you probably should do something else. 

take every coach who's been a HC during Barnes' time from Providence - today; how many of them have won multiple titles? it's like 5 or less, yeah? the rest of them have either zero or exactly one ncaa title. for my money it's the toughest title to win in sports, and (no TH) winning it really is hard. as my dad puts it: you get one cupcake and then you have to beat five really good teams in a row. there's no shame in playing to one's seed and never winning the whole thing. still, for Rick's sake i really hope he does win one. just don't let Texas and Tennessee meet in the S16 this year. my head will explode.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Clintonaldo

Clintonaldo 2574

Posted
Posted
And that should be what we all do at all times with sports. There’s only 1 team that hoists a trophy and 29-356 other teams depending upon the sport and level of the sport that aren’t at the end of every season. If the recipe for success and fulfillment is being the last team standing and you can’t take joy in the journey you probably should do something else. 

I have turned very zen since I learned I would be a first time dad in a few weeks at 40. I don’t want to be that guy screaming “ goddamnit Vols” all weekend and missing out on what’s important.

I wish me luck because all plans go out the window pretty quickly a lot of times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19077

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, shadow_operative said:

take every coach who's been a HC during Barnes' time from Providence - today; how many of them have won multiple titles? it's like 5 or less, yeah? the rest of them have either zero or exactly one ncaa title. for my money it's the toughest title to win in sports, and (no TH) winning it really is hard. as my dad puts it: you get one cupcake and then you have to beat five really good teams in a row. there's no shame in playing to one's seed and never winning the whole thing. still, for Rick's sake i really hope he does win one. just don't let Texas and Tennessee meet in the S16 this year. my head will explode.

Agree completely. I think making the final four is as big an achievement as winning the ncaa title in football. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19077

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Clintonaldo said:


I have turned very zen since I learned I would be a first time dad in a few weeks at 40. I don’t want to be that guy screaming “ goddamnit Vols” all weekend and missing out on what’s important.

I wish me luck because all plans go out the window pretty quickly a lot of times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

3 kids have done that to me as well. Without a doubt. It makes everything from before and that doesn’t relate to my family or supporting them less important. Not unimportant but certainly less life and death. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Knoxtnhorn

Knoxtnhorn 6047

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Clintonaldo said:


I have turned very zen since I learned I would be a first time dad in a few weeks at 40. I don’t want to be that guy screaming “ goddamnit Vols” all weekend and missing out on what’s important.

I wish me luck because all plans go out the window pretty quickly a lot of times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aw man.  Congrats dude.  It'll change you for the better.  I never cared to wear a seat belt way back when until the day I brought my little girl home from Fort Sanders.  (Actually, Children's because she was a preemie and spent a month there gaining weight.) I'm going to miss seeing her by a few hours on the 27th because I'll be passing through Knoxville the afternoon she leaves for a ski trip.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
 Share
Go to topic listing


Football ... Basketball ... Baseball ... Other Sports ... Futbol ... 🤫995🤫 ... Gambling ... Movies & TV ... Music ... Hobbies ... Lulz ... Food & Travel ... Daily Texan ... Business and Markets ... Cloak Room ... Help ... For Sale ... Board Discussion ... Subscribe!... Donate!... Advertise... COOKIE MONSTER!

×
×
  • Create New...