(Houston) Dad shoots at teens who had paintball guns, kills 19-year-old: police

[crash_davis 23121]

3 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

This comes across as the scene from Can't Buy Me Love where they are vandalizing the home on Halloween but in this case the father broke out a gun instead of a water hose.

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, smuggs said:

 

I respect the fact that my wife and kids need me around. And confronting multiple people with a weapon, alone, over the damage of some property, is not in the best interest of my family.

The guy's kid was safe inside the house. Call the cops and let the morons shoot paintballs at your vinyl siding. If they test the front door, escalate.

 

 

It must be awesome to be able to assume that the dude or his family would befell no harm from behind your keyboard.

 

Monday morning quarterbacking is not worth a fuck if somebody’s already dead or hurt

 

 You have not a clue if the guy would’ve been OK or not. 

 

 Given the current social environment, the last thing I wanna do is let the cops come and do a welfare check on my house, and that’s in addition to hoping the mob outside is civil. They should be expected to be reasonable, correct? 

Edited May 23, 2019 by slorch

[crash_davis 23121]

Just now, slorch said:

It must be awesome to be able to assume that the dude or his family would befell no harm from behind your keyboard.

 

Monday morning quarterbacking is not worth a fuck if somebody’s already dead or hurt

 

 You have not a clue if the guy would’ve been OK or not 

fucking lulz.

how many guns do you have?  go ahead and brag about the quantity and calibers.  you are a cliche.

[irishtexan 11530]

You have not one clue, sir! Nary a one!

LIBERTY!

Edited May 23, 2019 by irishtexan

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

fucking lulz.

how many guns do you have?  go ahead and brag about the quantity and calibers.  you are a cliche.

 I have three. I am not a gun nut, But I am absolutely huge and respecting other people’s liberty.  My own well-being also matters, as well as that of my family. I already said earlier in the thread I would’ve most likely warned them to get the fuck away. The right to assemble does not exist in my freaking yard or my front porch. Leave me the fuck alone and my guns will never be pointed at you. They have not been pointed at a human being in my lifetime. Is that fair enough?

 I do not understand why this concept is so difficult to grasp. I have to respect the fuckheads, but I have no rights in my own home or on my property. That is pure bullshit 

Edited May 23, 2019 by slorch

[irishtexan 11530]

2 minutes ago, slorch said:

 I have three. I am not a gun nut, But I am absolutely huge and respecting other people’s liberty. The right to assemble does not exist in my freaking yard or my front porch. Leave me the fuck alone and my guns will never be pointed at you. They have not been pointed at a human being in my lifetime. Is that fair enough?

The liberty to shoot at a fleeing car full of teenagers? You're a fucking joke, dude. 

[Gene Parmesan 4016]

We don't know anything about fleeing yet.  If you are going to LOL at posters posing hypotheticals for justification, then don't pose hypotheticals for a wrongful shooting.

[Pato del Muerto 52648]

When did this idea of shooting at a fleeing vehicle become verified truth?  Just because it’s the second story doesn’t mean it’s the true story. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

The liberty to shoot at a fleeing car full of teenagers? You're a fucking joke, dude. 

I never said that. Quit making shit up

 Somebody else upstream in the thread mentioned a similar story from years ago, but there is nothing in this particular event that has anything about the kids running away as they were shot. You just have a set in your mind how things are going to go, or maybe it’s just your playbook. Whatever the fuck it is get it straight 

Edited May 23, 2019 by slorch

[crash_davis 23121]

protecting your family is one thing.  most sane people will agree with defending your family. 

walking out the front door and shooting someone is another thing.  

everyone wants to portray the kid as some poor saint.  i know in high school that if 17 dudes hated another dude so much that they wanted to kill him, more than likely that dude was a monumental prick.  did he deserve to die, no.  did that one dude deserve to die?  maybe, maybe not.  at the very least, this decision should be brought before a grand jury to decide.

if the homeowner had stayed in his house, and someone tried to break in, shoot away.  we'd all applaud him.

[Pato del Muerto 52648]

3 hours ago, smuggs said:

Cops now saying he fired at one paintball warrior and the getaway car:

 

https://www.click2houston.com/news/one-dead-after-homeowner-opens-fire-on-would-be-burglars-police-say

 

Bumping. Says he shot at the vehicle. Does not say it was moving, certainly does not say they were fleeing. 

[Pato del Muerto 52648]

2 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

protecting your family is one thing.  most sane people will agree with defending your family. 

walking out the front door and shooting someone is another thing.  

everyone wants to portray the kid as some poor saint.  i know in high school that if 17 dudes hated another dude so much that they wanted to kill him, more than likely that dude was a monumental prick.  did he deserve to die, no.  did that one dude deserve to die?  maybe, maybe not.  at the very least, this decision should be brought before a grand jury to decide.

if the homeowner had stayed in his house, and someone tried to break in, shoot away.  we'd all applaud him.

Or, it could be one guy that had a beef, and a bunch of tag along friends there to see a fight and make sure their friend wins if necessary. 

Wheres all the we don’t know the facts people now that the homeowner and his son are being painted poorly by assumptions?

Edited May 23, 2019 by Pato del Muerto

[GringoSalado 1652]

56 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

It's almost comical how so many posters are always so quick to imagine hypotheticals absolving someone of killing another person in the name of liberty, property, or some other vague concept draped in an American flag.

It's almost comical how so many posters are always quick to accuse defenders of individual rights as murderous hicks, like you do in your next post.

[gecko 1104]

Reactions of neighbors to an event they didn't actually witness makes for some gooooood reading.  Thanks KPRC....

[Gene Parmesan 4016]

6 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

When did this idea of shooting at a fleeing vehicle become verified truth?  Just because it’s the second story doesn’t mean it’s the true story. 

Fleeing isn't even mentioned in the 2nd update.  The second report they arrested 3 and 1 dead and the dad shot the kid and also shot the vehicle.  It doesn't mention fleeing at all.

[crash_davis 23121]

10 minutes ago, thestud said:

The majority of posts in this thread (from both sides) gives me tired head. I should have known better than to read them all.

we argue about everything.  how else are we to avoid work?

[Steel Shank 9435]

1 hour ago, crash_davis said:

or the contrary.  how big of an asshole do you have be to make 17 dudes so pissed that they want to kill you.  

Maybe the cat was messin' around with a girl named Doris, who is the wife of a jealous man?

[ztejas 43564]

12 minutes ago, Steel Shank said:

Maybe the cat was messin' around with a girl named Doris, who is the wife of a jealous man?

I hear he's goin way down South. Way down where he can be free. 

[Dahobbs 17706]

57 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Fleeing isn't even mentioned in the 2nd update.  The second report they arrested 3 and 1 dead and the dad shot the kid and also shot the vehicle.  It doesn't mention fleeing at all.

This is a good point, I may have read that in. As I said, we need more information. 

[smuggs 9354]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

Monday morning quarterbacking is not worth a fuck if somebody’s already dead or hurt

 

 You have not a clue if the guy would’ve been OK or not. 

 

 Given the current social environment, the last thing I wanna do is let the cops come and do a welfare check on my house, and that’s in addition to hoping the mob outside is civil. They should be expected to be reasonable, correct? 

Ok, you run outside and confront the mob who you believe to be armed and firing at your house. Alone. Maybe you’ll kill a few of them. Maybe they will kill you. Since you brought up the police - maybe in the confusion you will not have noticed that they are already on the scene outside. I’m sure they will quickly realize that you’re the homeowner acting in the defense of your property and they will hold their fire. 

I’ll stay in my defensible position inside the locked house and make sure no one gains entry without being aerated.

 

 

 

[Zavala 1384]

19 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm not over excited about arresting people or charging them with crimes, but I could easily go either way with charging the father.  If it's as he says/it seems, and it was mistaken self-defense, I could see some value in testing that, short of a trial possibly, but to the point of serious investigation and indictment, perhaps.

I suppose it's possible that the father is falling apart at having killed a more or less innocent teen and charging him seems like overkill.

less

Dude is lucky he didn't maim anyone. 

[Zavala 1384]

1 hour ago, gecko said:

Reactions of neighbors to an event they didn't actually witness makes for some gooooood reading.  Thanks KPRC....

One neighbor who has lived in the neighborhood for over 60 years said he is stunned by the incident.

“I heard five pops,” said Jim Corbett, 82. "(It's never been) right in front of my house like this before."

One of the bullets struck the front of his home. Corbett says he may buy a pistol to protect himself in the future. 

[Steel Shank 9435]

25 minutes ago, smuggs said:

Ok, you run outside and confront the mob who you believe to be armed and firing at your house. Alone. Maybe you’ll kill a few of them. Maybe they will kill you. Since you brought up the police - maybe in the confusion you will not have noticed that they are already on the scene outside. I’m sure they will quickly realize that you’re the homeowner acting in the defense of your property and they will hold their fire. 

I’ll stay in my defensible position inside the locked house and make sure no one gains entry without being aerated.

 

 

 

"aerated"

I like that. Nice work.

[TxEx99 31]

2 hours ago, smuggs said:

 

I respect the fact that my wife and kids need me around. And confronting multiple people with a weapon, alone, over the damage of some property, is not in the best interest of my family.

The guy's kid was safe inside the house. Call the cops and let the morons shoot paintballs at your vinyl siding. If they test the front door, escalate.

 

 

And if he did have vinyl siding and he doesn't know they're paint guns I'd be real worried about pass through while hunkering down in my home.  How many times have you heard about people dying in their homes from a drive by.  If he doesn't have brick I imagine the sound of the paint splatter was loud and terrifying when woken from sleep.  Had those been real guns riding it out inside may not be all that safe in some houses.  

[crash_davis 23121]

2 minutes ago, TxEx99 said:

And if he did have vinyl siding and he doesn't know they're paint guns I'd be real worried about pass through while hunkering down in my home.  How many times have you heard about people dying in their homes from a drive by.  If he doesn't have brick I imagine the sound of the paint splatter was loud and terrifying when woken from sleep.  Had those been real guns riding it out inside may not be all that safe in some houses.  

so you go out the front door, get off my lawn style, and present a cleaner, easier target...

come at me bro!!!!!!!!!

[Fondren & Main 6744]

1 hour ago, thestud said:

The majority of posts in this thread (from both sides) gives me tired head. I should have known better than to read them all.

That's probably all the impurities from that expensive ass bourbon you've been drinking!

[TxEx99 31]

1 minute ago, crash_davis said:

so you go out the front door, get off my lawn style, and present a cleaner, easier target...

come at me bro!!!!!!!!!

Oh hell no.  Going out the front door...if that's what he did, is dumb if you think someone is shooting real bullets.  I'm not defending that action.  I am saying that staying inside may not be all that safe either.  The family was put in a terrible situation by those kids, full stop.  

[Foosters 17889]

2 hours ago, slorch said:

It must be awesome to be able to assume that the dude or his family would befell no harm from behind your keyboard.

 

Monday morning quarterbacking is not worth a fuck if somebody’s already dead or hurt

 

 You have not a clue if the guy would’ve been OK or not. 

 

 Given the current social environment, the last thing I wanna do is let the cops come and do a welfare check on my house, and that’s in addition to hoping the mob outside is civil. They should be expected to be reasonable, correct? 

jesus christ you're a fucking laugh

[housious 468]

2 hours ago, irishtexan said:

The liberty to shoot at a fleeing car full of teenagers? You're a fucking joke, dude. 

Do you really think anyone here is defending that? Don’t be a retard.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13530]

58 minutes ago, Zavala said:

One neighbor who has lived in the neighborhood for over 60 years said he is stunned by the incident.

“I heard five pops,” said Jim Corbett, 82. "(It's never been) right in front of my house like this before."

One of the bullets struck the front of his home. Corbett says he may buy a pistol to protect himself in the future. 

I don't follow the logic of the neighbor that needs to buy a gun in order to protect himself from the neighbor who is shooting at a bunch of kids with paint guns. Or maybe corbett is going to deflect bullets with said gun.

[High Plains Drifter 11054]

Maybe he planning on shooting the dumbass that shot his house.

 

[crash_davis 23121]

6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't follow the logic of the neighbor that needs to buy a gun in order to protect himself from the neighbor who is shooting at a bunch of kids with paint guns. Or maybe corbett is going to deflect bullets with said gun.

mutually assure destruction.  if your neighbor is going to pepper your house with bullets shooting at people, then it's your duty to liberty to return in kind.

[Reagan1k 3024]

8 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I don't follow the logic of the neighbor that needs to buy a gun in order to protect himself from the neighbor who is shooting at a bunch of kids with paint guns. Or maybe corbett is going to deflect bullets with said gun.

Dude just wants a new Ed Brown 1911 and this was the path of least resistance to get old lady to agree.

This whole thing set up the perfect alibi for the neighbor.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Foosters said:

jesus christ you're a fucking laugh

What’s funny or unreasonable about my response?

[Jkwellborn 6761]

Hunkering down in a frame house isn’t a great idea. Over penetration is a real thing. Going out in the yard if you think folks are shooting is a bad idea too.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

21 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

Hunkering down in a frame house isn’t a great idea. Over penetration is a real thing. Going out in the yard if you think folks are shooting is a bad idea too.

In to the breach rode the 600......

[Neonmoon 38130]

I definitely understand the father was in his legal right. I’m not arguing that whatsoever.  I understand the impulse and right to protect one’s family. I guess my disconnect is the neighborhood and culture. If a group of kids come to my house at midnight, I’m calling the Cops. It doesn’t matter if they are screaming they will kill me. That’s just my first reaction. But I didn’t grow up where this person grew up, so if you hear guns go off every might, and people are out there to shoot you. It’s most likely easier to get to that mentality. 

 

[Prepuce of Doom 21112]

4 hours ago, Fondren & Main said:

That's probably all the impurities from that expensive ass bourbon you've been drinking!

Ass bourbon sounds gross, regardless of price. 

Edited May 23, 2019 by Prepuce of Doom

[Braff Zacklin 13670]

6 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

It'd be cooler if it turns out the dad used a throwing star.

[4th and 5 4924]

On 5/22/2019 at 6:09 PM, Dahobbs said:

I don't get not charging the father. You don't get to kill people just because they messed up your property with paint. Maybe he thought they were real guns (but that seems unlikely to me), which is really the only way I could see his use of deadly force being reasonable. 

self defense, thought they were real guns?

defense of another, thought they were real guns?

defense of another, there were 15 of them?

defense of property, criminal mischief in the night time?

 

[Dahobbs 17706]

Just now, 4th and 5 said:

self defense, thought they were real guns?

defense of another, thought they were real guns?

defense of another, there were 15 of them?

defense of property, criminal mischief in the night time?

 

I feel like (1) you didnt read the post you quoted, you know, that talked about the real gun thing (2) you didnt read any other post in the thread where I talked about the criminal mischief thing and why it isn't clear that it applies, and (3) didnt read the update that indicates it was 4 kids, not 15. 

My whole point is not that the dad should definitely be charged, but that it seems way too early for the cops to make that call. 

[clapclapclap 9000]

6 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Wheres all the we don’t know the facts people now that the homeowner and his son are being painted poorly by assumptions?

(I grab my rifle and rush toward this thread.)

 

 

OBTW, from the KPRC story:

Quote

Police said they are trying to determine if the teens were firing a paintball gun, a normal gun or both.

 

[immortal13 4059]

He should've used a shotgun....could've taken out more than one with one shot 

[4th and 5 4924]

10 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Y'all who don't think paintball guns can cause serious bodily injury lining up to get shot in the face with a cranked up paintball gun? That can easily take out an eye. Or is that not serious bodily injury?

Plus it's night, so Texas law allows serious leeway. 

Exactly. It's literally the Texas Penal Code definition of "serious bodily injury" from which you have a right to use deadly force to defend yourself. 

[4th and 5 4924]

10 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

Do weapons even have to be involved to be justified under Texas self defense/castle doctrine laws?

Nope

[smuggs 9354]

21 minutes ago, 4th and 5 said:

defense of property, criminal mischief in the night time?

 

 

“Criminal Mischief in the Night Time” is my favorite Loverboy song.

 

[4th and 5 4924]

25 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

I feel like (1) you didnt read the post you quoted, you know, that talked about the real gun thing (2) you didnt read any other post in the thread where I talked about the criminal mischief thing and why it isn't clear that it applies, and (3) didnt read the update that indicates it was 4 kids, not 15. 

My whole point is not that the dad should definitely be charged, but that it seems way too early for the cops to make that call. 

you're right, just now catching up to the "facts" as presented by the media

yet all of those defenses remain possibilities depending on the circumstances

along with one more:

defense of property, theft in the nighttime, if reasonable belief thereof as it relates to vehicle on the property

Edited May 24, 2019 by 4th and 5

[ztejas 43564]

19 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

He should've used a shotgun....could've taken out more than one with one shot 

Probably not lethally, though. What's that saying, one dead is worth more than 2 in the bush? 

[Jkwellborn 6761]

Probably not lethally, though. What's that saying, one dead is worth more than 2 in the bush? 

I saw a movie by the same name. Starred your mom.

[immortal13 4059]

28 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Probably not lethally, though. What's that saying, one dead is worth more than 2 in the bush? 

With buckshot....oh yeah. Just a slower death. Win win