Grateful Dead General Thread

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

On 2/27/2021 at 10:49 AM, Hate said:

Damn, I guess I really was drunk.

Don't like the jams?  I love the jams.  What I've never been a huge fan of is the psychedelic jamming.  That's probably because I never tripped at a show or while listening to them.  You can't be a fan of the Grateful Dead and listen to them as much as I do and not like jamming.  If I didn't like jamming, I would listen to the studio albums.  The 5/26/77 shows is one of my favorites because of the sound and the set list, not because they don't jam.  I've said it before but one of my favorite things to do while listening is to just pick one of the guys and listen try to listen to just them for an entire song.  Shows with great soundboards like that one make it really easy to do. 

I love the jams, have tripped at shows multiple times, and still am not a fan of the psychedelic jams.  I think they get to chaotic, stray from the music, and just become a jumble of notes not held together by enough actual musical semblance.  The Dead ain't Thelonious Monk.

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

On 2/27/2021 at 12:17 PM, Hate said:

Jesus fucking christ you're a beating.  I never said I hate Dark Star.  And I can choose to like any goddamned LL Rain I want to.  I'll continue listening to my favorite band of all time the way that I have been listening to them for 30 years now. 

I’m a beating? You said your favorite L.L. Rain was from 5/26/77. Sometimes I think you’re just trying to get me riled up.

I wish I could find the review of 5/26/77 I posted on phish.net years ago. I’ve searched but to no avail. I don’t think I even knew who you were when I made the observation that it’s the least jammy Dead show I ever heard. It’s not a personal attack on you when I notice that you love the least jammy show the Dead ever played. It’s just an observation. I encourage everyone to listen to that show, and a bunch of other shows, and decide for themselves.

And I LOVE L.L. Rain. What makes the song great is the ending, the more improvisational part, what Bobby sings, what Jerry plays and, during the Donna era, what Donna sang. I don’t bitch about Donna’s shrieking during Playin’ because I know she was hampered by not being able to hear herself. You take the good with the bad, warts and all. She sounded great in the studio, she sounds great now with the in-ear monitoring system pioneered by the Dead and ubiquitous throughout the music industry today, and her vocal duet with Bobby at the end of L.L. Rain was a thing of beauty. And of all of them I’ve ever heard, I would rank 5/26/77 dead last, no pun intended.

 

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

On 2/27/2021 at 10:49 AM, Hate said:

What I've never been a huge fan of is the psychedelic jamming. 

By the Grateful Dead. You don’t like the psychedelic jamming by the Grateful Dead. Do you even know anything about the band?

What do you think Bill was talking about?

Edited March 4, 2021 by WhatTheBuck

[Hate 20,106]

Just so everyone knows, I tried to move a conversation between myself and WhatTheBuck to PM's as to spare the board, but he felt this was a conversation better had on the forums.  I asked him why he has been busting my balls about "not liking jamming" despite 23 pages of evidence to the contrary.  Here was my comment to WhatTheBuck that he thought was better put here for discussion:

 

I love everything about the band. I love the improvisational side as well.  Go back and look at the songs I've posted.  The 5/17/74 Bird Song is all improv.  The 6/24/74 Eyes of the World is all improv.  You cannot like the Grateful Dead without liking the jams.  It's impossible.  What I have never been a huge fan of is the first few years of really psychedelic jamming.  Like I said, that may be because I never tripped while listening to it.  I don't really ever listen to much from the 60's unless it's Pigpen going off like Big Boss Man and Lovelight. I just don't get how you can possibly say I'm not a fan of the jamming or improv.  IT's counter intuitive to being a Grateful Dead fan.    

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[Hate 20,106]

14 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

I’m a beating? You said your favorite L.L. Rain was from 5/26/77. Sometimes I think you’re just trying to get me riled up.

I wish I could find the review of 5/26/77 I posted on phish.net years ago. I’ve searched but to no avail. I don’t think I even knew who you were when I made the observation that it’s the least jammy Dead show I ever heard. It’s not a personal attack on you when I notice that you love the least jammy show the Dead ever played. It’s just an observation. I encourage everyone to listen to that show, and a bunch of other shows, and decide for themselves.

And I LOVE L.L. Rain. What makes the song great is the ending, the more improvisational part, what Bobby sings, what Jerry plays and, during the Donna era, what Donna sang. I don’t bitch about Donna’s shrieking during Playin’ because I know she was hampered by not being able to hear herself. You take the good with the bad, warts and all. She sounded great in the studio, she sounds great now with the in-ear monitoring system pioneered by the Dead and ubiquitous throughout the music industry today, and her vocal duet with Bobby at the end of L.L. Rain was a thing of beauty. And of all of them I’ve ever heard, I would rank 5/26/77 dead last, no pun intended.

 

So what's your favorite LL Rain??

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

1 minute ago, Hate said:

Just so everyone knows, I tried to move a conversation between myself and WhatTheBuck to PM's as to spare the board, but he felt this was a conversation better had on the forums.  I asked him why he has been busting my balls about "not liking jamming" despite 23 pages of evidence to the contrary.  Here was my comment to WhatTheBuck that he thought was better put here for discussion:

 

I love everything about the band. I love the improvisational side as well.  Go back and look at the songs I've posted.  The 5/17/74 Bird Song is all improv.  The 6/24/74 Eyes of the World is all improv.  You cannot like the Grateful Dead without liking the jams.  It's impossible.  What I have never been a huge fan of is the first few years of really psychedelic jamming.  Like I said, that may be because I never tripped while listening to it.  I don't really ever listen to much from the 60's unless it's Pigpen going off like Big Boss Man and Lovelight. I just don't get how you can possibly say I'm not a fan of the jamming or improv.  IT's counter intuitive to being a Grateful Dead fan.    

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You said you don’t like the psychedelic jams performed by the most significant psychedelic band in the world. The psychedelic part was the whole point.

[alincoln 2,371]

Plenty of diehard deadheads don't like Space, Seastones, some of the dissonant, aimless Dark Stars that are certainly out there or the 29 minute lovelights.  Some of the psychedelic jamming was the product of some guys who should have been staring at a lava lamp instead of trying to play their instruments while some is absolutely inspirational.

For example, the 10/26/89 Miami Dark Star receives quite a bit of praise (likely as a result of being the longest late era star) despite being unlistenable.  For an example of peak era jamming that I struggle to enjoy, see the 3.28.73 Star.  

 

[Hate 20,106]

And for the record, I’ve never complained about Donna. The first time I ever heard LL Rain was when I listened to Without a Net. Without access to tapes, that’s the way I always thought the song should sound. But then the internet came along and access to hundreds or shows was at my fingertips and I started going through and finding others and was blown away with the 70’s versions. The back and forth between Donna and Bobby is fantastic. I never complained about Donna’s “wailing” because I always felt on some levels she was just a fan with a microphone on the stage and the music just got to her. Call it a spontaneous reaction to a joyous environment which is something anyone that has been to a show understands.

And the improvisation of the Grateful Dead was the best in the last couple of years with Brent, imo. You could argue the 60’s and that would be fine, I wouldn’t argue too much. But the band had played together long enough by 89-90 that they were completely in synch. Listen to some of the later versions of Let It Grow or Bird Song. The jams on those are outstanding and Brent is a big part of that. Keith didn’t seem quite as experimental, imo, and the jams relied mostly on Jerry, Phil, and Bobby. The late 88-90 years it was all 4 of them improvising

Now, I’m not saying that Bird Song was better in the 88-90 years. I love the early 70’s jazziness of Bird Song. Those are one of my go to’s on beautiful sunny days like we’ve had the last few days. I don’t have any reason for it, but I really enjoy the early 70’s more during the morning and afternoon and then switch to 76-78 and 88-90 in the evening and nighttime. There is no rhyme or reason for it, it’s just how my tastes have evolved over the years.

[Guest Lobo]

It's hard to say categorically because the shows were always different, that was the whole point.  But yeah, if I'm honest...I was never a huge Dark Star/Space fan.  I like "Drums" because I used to play, but that's about it on the truly tripped out part of the set.  I loved the improv jams on their actual songs, but Dark Star/Space was usually wait in line to piss time, get more beer time for me.  Although I partook in a few substances during shows over the years, I'm not really a drug guy, even weed.  So that part was just kinda lost on me.  Everybody else I went with had fun during that 20+ minutes and I was glad they were having fun, but it wasn't my bag.  

Having said that, I would gladly take a hit off a joint, chug a couple beers, and let my mind wander as China Cat turned into I Know You Rider

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

37 minutes ago, Hate said:

So what's your favorite LL Rain??

The next one?

I don’t know if I have a favorite. But I’d challenge anyone to find one performed in the spring ‘77 tour that was less interesting than the one performed on 5/26/77, the penultimate show of that tour. (Here’s a tip — go see the last show of the tour, not the second-to-last show of the tour. Or, if you’re going to see both, wait to drop acid until the tour closing show.)

The tour closing show in May ‘77 was a vault release titled “To Terrapin.” There’s no L.L Rain in that show but there’s some great psychedelic jamming. You can find some great psychedelic jamming on all of the Dead’s vault releases, and Dick’s Picks, Dave’s Picks, Road Trips, etc. it’s almost like that was a criterion for choosing which shows to release. The Acid Tests were called the Acid Tests for a reason and you can’t change the fact that the Dead were the house band. If you say you like the Dead but aren’t into that whole psychedelic thing then you can’t be expected to be taken seriously.

But there is one L.L. Rain that I’m particularly fond of. I wouldn’t say it’s it my favorite. But it’s really good and it’s probably from the best show I never saw. That’s a whole other story, and a great story, and you discourage me from sharing it. I’m a beating? Go drop acid and listen to Blues For Allah, no bourbon allowed, then get back to us. (That’s what I did that night in Cincinnati.)

Its too bad that you can’t get the full dynamic range listening to it streaming online  because Mickey was laying down some serious thunder on The Beam during that closing jam.

 

[Hate 20,106]

The penultimate show from that tour?  Where did I say that.  I posted that show because it has great sound and a has great set list.  The entire month of May 77 is filled with great shows.  I've gone ahead and posted links to several other May LL Rain versions for you.

https://archive.org/details/gd77-05-26.aud.vernon.18746.sbeok.shnf/gd77-05-26d1t07.shn

https://archive.org/details/gd77-05-05.sbd.stephens.8832.sbeok.shnf/gd77-05-05d1t07.shn

https://archive.org/details/gd77-05-19.sbd.direwolf.3120.sbeok.shnf

https://archive.org/details/gd77-05-13.sbd.miller.9393.sbeok.shnf

https://archive.org/details/gd77-05-17.sbd.weiner.18554.sbeok.shnf/gd1977-05-17d1t07.shn

If you really want to, I guess you could quibble that the one I posted as my favorite is somehow less "jammy" than any of these others.  I thought the one I posted was fucking beautiful and I always will.  But if you really can't stand my thoughts on my favorite LL Rain or my thoughts on the psychedelic jamming, then you are more than welcome to put me on ignore.  I'll go on enjoying my favorite and the greatest band in the history of the world.  The music never stops.

 

[Guest Lobo]

Sorry to break up this spat, but I have to post this story here rather than on one of the vaccination threads because nobody there will appreciate it (maybe nobody will).  

Just got back from CVS to get my first shot.  Check in at the front and then make your way to the back to wait for your shot, and there's another separate holding area where they want you to sit for 15mts afterwards to make sure you're okay.  But back there, there's people waiting on Rx's, people there for the minute clinic for non-Covid shit, people waiting to get their 1st vaccine, people waiting to be cleared, et. al.  Operation was really fast, but just lots of people milling about for different reasons.  So there's another guy back there in plainclothes and he's just taking temps and then pointing you the next available booth to get your Pfizer shot.  And the guy is just walking up to people in chairs or people standing around the pharmacy, and he points to you, and just asks, "Doses?"......."Sir, doses?"........"Doses, ma'am?"........"Y'all here for doses?"  I was cracking up under my mask and turning red...they probably thought I was going into shock from the needle.  Took me back to another parking lot in another life. 

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

On 2/27/2021 at 12:29 AM, Hate said:

Forty nine years ago tonight Terrapin Station and Estimated Prophet were debuted.  I've posted this show before.  It's a a great show that was the beginning of what is arguably the best year ever for the Grateful Dead.

 

Speaking of Terrapin. I posted this back on Shaggy. 3/18/77 was the only time they played the “Alhambra” portion of the song. I don’t know exactly how it conforms to the named subsections of the song on the album like “Terrapin Transit” or “At a Siding,” naming conventions that were dictated by budgetary concerns because the record industry wasn’t set up to accommodate long songs at that time. So to publish a long song like Terrapin they gave names to the various subsections so it could be considered as a half dozen or so “songs.”

The whole show is great. You should check it out. It has a really sweet Sugaree. It’s not as rockin’ as some Sugarees and doesn’t have a big triumphant finish, but the big jam segment gets kind of soft with some great interplay between Jerry and Phil. Phil kicks ass in that Sugaree. And it also has a fantastic Not Fade Away. And it was the first performance of Fire on the Mountain, which they segued into after Scarlet Begonias to close the first set. I would’ve loved to have been there for that.

I have that whole show on CD now but I still have my cassette tape that I recorded from the Grateful Dead Hour on the radio back in ‘88 or ‘89. It has some interviews with Garcia and Hunter about Terrapin that I can’t find on YouTube. And the sound quality is still pretty good even though I recorded it on a boom box. Garcia talks about how big portions of the music for Terrapin and Wharf Rat came to him in a flash. Hunter talks about how the lyrics for Terrapin came to him as he watched the “storm-lashed Bay” out of a picture window and incited the muse with an invocation, saying “Let my inspiration flow.” Garcia talks about how it just took a few tweaks to make Hunter’s lyrics fit his composition.

 

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

That was also recorded over two GD Hour shows on consecutive Sundays. I was really good at timing the recording and pausing for commercials breaks. There was no post-production editing of that tape and it sounds fantastic. I’ve thrown out hundreds of my old Dead tapes but I still have just a few and that’s one of them, and I still listen to it from time to time. It’s also a good tape label that I bought from someone in the parking lot at some show. 

[Hate 20,106]

Back when I lived in San Marcos, we would always go to The Showdown which was a dive bar for locals and burn outs. They had the whole Terrapin Station album in the juke box so without fail we’d drop some money in and play Terrapin Station. It would piss some people off as they weren’t really into listening to 17 minute spacey songs, but we didn’t really care. Good times.

And I absolutely believe that the music and words to those songs came to them pretty quickly. I don’t know it for a fact, but I would bet most of their songs were like that. I’d be interested in hearing which of their songs they really struggled with.

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

23 hours ago, alincoln said:

Plenty of diehard deadheads don't like Space, Seastones, some of the dissonant, aimless Dark Stars that are certainly out there or the 29 minute lovelights.  Some of the psychedelic jamming was the product of some guys who should have been staring at a lava lamp instead of trying to play their instruments while some is absolutely inspirational.

For example, the 10/26/89 Miami Dark Star receives quite a bit of praise (likely as a result of being the longest late era star) despite being unlistenable.  For an example of peak era jamming that I struggle to enjoy, see the 3.28.73 Star.

Some diehard college football fans don’t know the name of their favorite team’s quarterback. You can’t fill a 100,000+ seat stadium without some casual fans. Those aren’t diehards.

Show me anyone, as diehard as you can get, who claims to love Seastones. It was an experiment by an experimental band. It wasn’t good. But it fit with Phil’s interest in electronic music. Think of it in the same way as every SpaceX rocket that explodes on the launching pad.

Which Space are you talking about? The early Space which could happen anytime or the late era Space which always followed Drumz in the middle of Set II?

Can you be more specific about your criticism of the Miami ‘89 Dark Star? What did you think of the Hampton Dark Star? Or do you just dislike Dark Star in general? If you ever went to a Dead show, were you just there for the party?

Maybe everyone who claims they love the Dead but never dropped acid and went to a show or even listened to their music in a psychedelic state should raise their hands. Because you deserve to be mocked. 

[Hate 20,106]

I’ve been to 3 Grateful Dead shows, 1 Rat Dog, 1 The Dead (Willie’s Picnic 2003), and one a Dead & Co show. I never tripped at any of them. I’ve loved the Grateful Dead for 30 years now and will continue to live them until I shuffle off this planet. Mock away.

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

27 minutes ago, Hate said:

Back when I lived in San Marcos, we would always go to The Showdown which was a dive bar for locals and burn outs. They had the whole Terrapin Station album in the juke box so without fail we’d drop some money in and play Terrapin Station. It would piss some people off as they weren’t really into listening to 17 minute spacey songs, but we didn’t really care. Good times.

And I absolutely believe that the music and words to those songs came to them pretty quickly. I don’t know it for a fact, but I would bet most of their songs were like that. I’d be interested in hearing which of their songs they really struggled with.

Terrapin Station is arguably their worst studio album. That would be a whole other discussion about how they were in debt and how running their own record company didn’t work out very well so they signed with Arista and let someone else produce their record, blah blah blah.

But I was a big fan of the record in my younger days and especially the big composition of the title track. We had a couple of great trips where we listened to Dark Side of the Moon while watching one of those plasma balls set to audio. That was amazing (and exactly the same the second time as the first...still cool but the novelty sort of wore off). One night we listened to Terrapin while using some device that was advertised as a laser show but really wasn’t. It was just multicolored lights that reflected off of little mirrors and projected against the wall in a sound-sensitive manner similar to how that plasma ball worked. It was still pretty cool. Probably bought at Spencer Gifts  

I didn’t hear my first live Terrapin until my third show, at Buckeye Lake on 6/25/88. Man, what a show. Bruce Hornsby & The Range opened. Bruce sat in on accordion for Sugaree. I had no idea that he’d eventually join the band. I could tell more stories about that show. I’m not sure if this is the right audience. Those stories involve dropping acid and listening to THE GRATEFUL FUCKING DEAD! Apparently that is frowned upon in these parts.

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

On 3/4/2021 at 10:00 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

You said you don’t like the psychedelic jams performed by the most significant psychedelic band in the world. The psychedelic part was the whole point.

No no it wasn't. The pshychedelic jam was a part of the music.  Not THE point.  Jerry, and the boys were musicians first and foremost, so the music is the point.  The music moved into and out of different vibes throughout a show.  

Dropping acid, and watching the dead is definitely a huge part of the experience, and I did it several times (and have been to lots of shows without dropping acid or shrooms), and didn't need the music to go off the rails into long drawn out psychedelic ramblings to enjoy the show, and experience.

Not dropping acid at a dead show deserves mocking ?  Grow up brah.  Maybe read some Ken Kesey about the whole acid experience, and music.  If you think you have to drop acid to go to a dead show maybe you're the one who needs mocking.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

39 minutes ago, Hate said:

I’ve been to 3 Grateful Dead shows, 1 Rat Dog, 1 The Dead (Willie’s Picnic 2003), and one a Dead & Co show. I never tripped at any of them. I’ve loved the Grateful Dead for 30 years now and will continue to live them until I shuffle off this planet. Mock away.

That’s awesome. The Grateful Dead played 2,317 concerts. Only 28 in Texas. I’ve seen more than that in Big Ten country over the course of just eight years.

Coincidence? Or did another piece of the puzzle just fall into place?

As long as you’re buying a ticket, they don’t care if you know the name of the QB. It doesn’t matter if you’re a drunken buffoon who only knows half the words to the fight song. You’re a BIG FAN!!

[Hate 20,106]

Dropping acid and listening to the Grateful Dead is not frowned upon at all, it’s just not something I ever did. The one and only time I took acid I didn’t like it, and it was years before I got into The Dead. There were many times I ate a bunch of shrooms and had the GD on in the background, but I didn’t just sit and listen to them. I was having too much fun tripping to just sit...and I could never sit still when tripping on shrooms. The whole point of this is that nobody holds anything against you and the way you want to consume the GD. One man gathers what another man spills. Who fucking cares is the best thing about the GD community. They have something for everyone!

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

I don’t know if it’s worth my while. Maybe it’s not. But Terrapin isn’t generally a jammy song but this a pretty jammed out version. It seems to me that it could be jammed out more because it has some controposing (is that a word?) phrases like in Birdland does. But this is one of the better ones I’ve seen. (And at a really great venue, stories about which would probably be wasted here.)

 

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

51 minutes ago, Hate said:

Dropping acid and listening to the Grateful Dead is not frowned upon at all, it’s just not something I ever did.

Your loss. That disqualifies you from being able to comment intelligently on an acid rock band. THE acid rock band. (Probably goes for Pink Floyd too, right? They were Britain’s version of the Dead.)

[alincoln 2,371]

1 hour ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Your loss. That disqualifies you from being able to comment intelligently on an acid rock band. THE acid rock band. (Probably goes for Pink Floyd too, right? They were Britain’s version of the Dead.)

You are seriously ruining the thread.  You should consider taking some acid to clean out the pipes and come back with a better attitude.  Your dismissive and condescending tone is extremely bizarre for a freaking dead thread.

[Hate 20,106]

Your loss. That disqualifies you from being able to comment intelligently on an acid rock band. THE acid rock band. (Probably goes for Pink Floyd too, right? They were Britain’s version of the Dead.)

I love Pink Floyd too. I’ve enjoyed many a high as fuck evening listening to Pink Floyd. I even got to see them once in what was probably the worst venue ever to see a show, The Alamodome. We were all high as fuck literally and physically as our seats were in the nosebleeds. It didn’t stop us from laughing our asses off when one of those giant pigs fell from the top of the stage and enjoying the hell out of all the lasers and lights.

I guess I’m just a more live and let live type of person than you WTB. I don’t really give a shit if people drop acid, don’t drop acid, take drugs, don’t take drugs, whatever. I love the music and your company excluded, I love the community. I got into the Dead at a time in my life when I had been fairly sheltered and had a narrow vision of the world and how it should be. The Grateful Dead changed that. I won’t let your negativity derail me and I won’t let you condescension keep me from posting here. This is my favorite thread on this board because it is about my favorite subject matter outside of my family and friends.

That said, I might just have to listen to some Grateful Dead tonight while I have some drinks to celebrate wrapping up a big project early this morning.

[Hate 20,106]

I listening to 4/30/77 tonight which I've posted before.  It's one of my favorites.  It was released as Download Series Volume 1.  I'm not sure what who decides on the "download Series" like t Dave's and Dick's picks, but I've downloaded some great shows from that series. 

 

[Onboard 2.0 9,083]

10 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Your loss. That disqualifies you from being able to comment intelligently on an acid rock band. THE acid rock band. (Probably goes for Pink Floyd too, right? They were Britain’s version of the Dead.)

Uhhhhhh..... no.

[Hate 20,106]

I'm doing a re-listen of 10/29/77 tonight.  What a great goddam show!

[Hate 20,106]

So which do you like more? Deal or Loser?  I swear to god I go back and forth on this depending on which one I heard last.  I was lucky enough to hear both in the first set of my first show.  Both just great great songs!

[Hate 20,106]

So I'm checking out one of the shows from 1975 tonight.  There aren't many shows, but here is one.  It has an outstanding Franklin's Tower!

 

[Hate 20,106]

Holy shit...apparently some lady is having a baby in the middle of this show.  Goddamn, that baby is the luckiest goddamn baby in the history of the world.

[Hate 20,106]

Where is everyone and what are you listening to tonight?  I'm in search of a show. 

[Hate 20,106]

I landed on 10/20/89 from the Spectrum in Philly. 

 

[Guest Lobo]

1 hour ago, Hate said:

Where is everyone and what are you listening to tonight?  I'm in search of a show. 

I heard a great Dead & Co. version of "Sugaree" with Mayer on lead vocals on sat radio on way home.  When it started out, I wanted to punch the radio.  But they drove it home nicely.  Can't remember the date on the console, but it was from 2019.  and it was a really long version.  That was about the peak of my evening 

[Hate 20,106]

We've both heard a fantastic Dead & Co. "Sugaree". 

[Druggist 303]

Today I checked out 3/24/73 and 6/24/74, both are Dave’s Picks from the last couple years.

the 73 show has a real nice China>Rider and a He’s Gone>Truckin>Jam>Dark Star.  The DS has to be one of the shortest ever at ~4 min, but the preceding 20+ min jam makes it feel bigger.

The 74 show at the Jai-Alai Fronton has some great jams.  I thought  the versions of To Lay Me Down and Ship of Fools are as good or better than any I’ve ever heard.

[Hate 20,106]

Ship of Fools is a great song no matter when they played it.  I'm just jumping around a bit tonight, but it's all good no matter what I hear. 

[alincoln 2,371]

On 3/12/2021 at 11:10 PM, Druggist said:

The 74 show at the Jai-Alai Fronton has some great jams.  I thought  the versions of To Lay Me Down and Ship of Fools are as good or better than any I’ve ever heard.

Couldn't agree more.

[Hate 20,106]

I forgot to post this last night, but I was checking this show out.  I didn't make it all of the way through it yet, but it's been pretty damn good so far.

 

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

On 3/5/2021 at 1:19 PM, alincoln said:

You are seriously ruining the thread.  You should consider taking some acid to clean out the pipes and come back with a better attitude.  Your dismissive and condescending tone is extremely bizarre for a freaking dead thread.

Ruining the thread? Seriously? Boo hoo.

I encourage everyone to appreciate the music of the Dead. I know it won’t appeal to everyone. I get that. And if you dig their music without ever hearing it in a psychedelic state, that’s cool too. Maybe you never had the chance. I haven’t dropped acid in around 20 years and I’m not going to go saying you should do it. I think it should be legal and that would be good for society. That’s a different subject.

But if you’ve never listened to the Dead in a psychedelic state then you’re reviewing a cuisine you’ve never actually tasted. Does everyone here know the history of the band? Kesey and gov’t LSD testing and the Pranksters and the Acid Tests and Owlsley and Bill Graham and so on?

Is there anyone here who ever listened to the dead while under the influence of LSD or psilocybin, let alone attended a show in such a state?

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah dude, we're all on board with drugs and Dead music.  We're Just getting old, that's all.  

If you count the Other Ones at willie's picnic and the Dead & Co. show at the Erwin Center a few years back, I'm somewhere between 23-25 shows total.  Most of them in another life.  And I'm not counting Ratdog, or Mickey Hart & Planet Drum shows.  Yes, probably two handfuls of those shows involved psychedelics.  The rest, maybe some light weed usage.  Weed was never really my thing, but if a joint got passed down the row during an 'Eyes of the World' jam, I'd hit it. 

If you were to tell me Dead & Co. were playing tonight in Dallas, I'd drive up in a heartbeat and eat whatever came in a plastic baggie smelling like shit.  But the last several shows I attended, wasn't on anything but some beers and still had a great time.  The difference between shows when I was "f'd up on drugs" at Deer Creek 25+ years ago and now isn't that I haven't tasted the cuisine I'm reviewing.  It's just time has passed.  I like different parts of jams and different parts of the catalog/covers nowadays than I did then.  Getting high out of my mind and listening a 25-minute 'Dark Star' just doesn't seem appealing to me.  But a glass of bourbon and 'Standing on the Moon' playing outside sounds like heaven to me. /oldmanrant

Edited March 16, 2021 by Lobo

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

Might be a wasted review, but on Saturday night I got the urge for some Dead after a long day of B1G tournament basketball. I wanted to listen to that first Scarlet > Fire from 3/18/17 that I mentioned earlier but that would’ve meant turning on lights and digging through a box. I had other stacks of discs sitting around but I didn’t feel like turning on a light and trying to make a decision there, either. Over on one my CD shelves I had one show from a box set that was sitting out on top of the box and had been there for some time. I figured, okay, I’ll just grab this and play whichever disc comes out most easily. (It was in one of those tri-fold cardboard cases.)

Disc 3 came out most easily because it’s on the 3rd segment of the tri-fold and slips right out, or out on the right. Discs 1 & 2 are more securely tucked into their envelopes and it takes more stress to get them out. (I’m not fond of some of their decisions on packaging.)

Anyway, it turned out to be 11/11/73, the last of the last of a three night stand at Winterland, and began with an absolutely killer Dark Star. If you don’t get it, that’s cool, but I don’t get that. There are multiple sides to the Dead. They have great songs and great lyrics. But they also have the improvisational side which they pioneered, fusing jazz with rock years before Miles Davis fused rock with jazz, and some of their songs are launching points into that other realm. What really sets the Dead apart was what they played when they weren’t playing “songs.” Dark Star is the biggest door into that realm.

Such a classic performance. Nothing beats full band improvisation when you have no idea what’s coming next. I love songs like Cassidy and Bird Song, for example, but those jams are more constrained. The bigger jam vehicles are songs like Playin’ and The Other One and Dark Star, the latter being THE BIG ONE. 

That Dark Star covered a lot of territory. In my youth I might’ve broken it down with time stamps and commentary on individual passages. Did you ever get that geeky?

Probably not.

Anyway, I was reminded why I left that one sitting out. It was because that Dark Star included a Mind Left Body jam that wasn’t included in the liner notes. 

[Hate 20,106]

I never tripped at a show but I have listened to the Grateful Dead while tripping on shrooms. We didn’t just sit there and trio on the music, but it was the soundtrack to a few trips. I was just never into sitting around and listening to music while tripping. I always preferred to trip while camping or on some other outdoor experience (Eyeore’s Birthday). The GD shows I went to were away from my home base and required travel through many states. We were ok traveling with weed but we didn’t want to travel with shrooms. I think we thought that the consequences of getting caught with shrooms were worse than with mushrooms. At any rate, I don’t really give a shit what state of mind anyone is in when they listen to the GD. You either get it or you don’t. That’s what is great about the community. It’s all encompassing to those who get it and they don’t care how or when you got there....well, almost the whole community.

[alincoln 2,371]

41 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

But they also have the improvisational side which they pioneered, fusing jazz with rock years before Miles Davis fused rock with jazz, and some of their songs are launching points into that other realm.

In a Silent Way was recorded in February 1969 which is more or less contemporaneous with the recording of Live/Dead.

[Druggist 303]

8 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Might be a wasted review, but on Saturday night I got the urge for some Dead after a long day of B1G tournament basketball. I wanted to listen to that first Scarlet > Fire from 3/18/17 that I mentioned earlier but that would’ve meant turning on lights and digging through a box. I had other stacks of discs sitting around but I didn’t feel like turning on a light and trying to make a decision there, either. Over on one my CD shelves I had one show from a box set that was sitting out on top of the box and had been there for some time. I figured, okay, I’ll just grab this and play whichever disc comes out most easily. (It was in one of those tri-fold cardboard cases.)

Disc 3 came out most easily because it’s on the 3rd segment of the tri-fold and slips right out, or out on the right. Discs 1 & 2 are more securely tucked into their envelopes and it takes more stress to get them out. (I’m not fond of some of their decisions on packaging.)

Anyway, it turned out to be 11/11/73, the last of the last of a three night stand at Winterland, and began with an absolutely killer Dark Star. If you don’t get it, that’s cool, but I don’t get that. There are multiple sides to the Dead. They have great songs and great lyrics. But they also have the improvisational side which they pioneered, fusing jazz with rock years before Miles Davis fused rock with jazz, and some of their songs are launching points into that other realm. What really sets the Dead apart was what they played when they weren’t playing “songs.” Dark Star is the biggest door into that realm.

Such a classic performance. Nothing beats full band improvisation when you have no idea what’s coming next. I love songs like Cassidy and Bird Song, for example, but those jams are more constrained. The bigger jam vehicles are songs like Playin’ and The Other One and Dark Star, the latter being THE BIG ONE. 

That Dark Star covered a lot of territory. In my youth I might’ve broken it down with time stamps and commentary on individual passages. Did you ever get that geeky?

Probably not.

Anyway, I was reminded why I left that one sitting out. It was because that Dark Star included a Mind Left Body jam that wasn’t included in the liner notes. 

For me, this is my favorite Dark Star ever.  Jazzy, exploratory, when the get to freak out land, they pull it back pretty quickly.  One of my favorite ways to spend 35 minutes.

and I only did acid twice, at my first two Dead shows in 94.  pretty incredible.

[Hate 20,106]

Twenty seven years ago tonight was my second Grateful Dead show, 3/16/94 from the Rosemont, Horizon.  Oddly enough, it has a Dark Star so maybe WhatTheBuck will give it a listen.  For some reason, my buddy and I ended up in the taper section.  It sucked because we couldn't yell and scream, but it seemed like all of the sound was pointed right at us.  During FOTM, Mickey would hit this huge bass drum that made the whole building shake.  It's also king of odd to me that I Heard Phil sing at all three of my shows and he sang different songs each time.  I'll have to listen to this tonight.

https://archive.org/details/gd94-03-16.sbd.ladner.7778.sbeok.shnf

Edited March 16, 2021 by Hate

[WhatTheBuck 28,775]

11 hours ago, alincoln said:

In a Silent Way was recorded in February 1969 which is more or less contemporaneous with the recording of Live/Dead.

Are you unaware of what the Dead were doing from ‘65-‘68, and how Sgt. Pepper’s, released in ‘67, affected their (and a lot of other artists’) approach?

Miles is in my top five, but he didn’t invent fusion music. Far from it. Read his autobiography. He won’t dispute that. And while you’re at it, maybe check out the early works of Frank Zappa. And Spirit. 

[Hate 20,106]

Twenty seven years ago tonight I was at my last Grateful Dead show.  It's where I met @Druggist and his brother that night.  It was a damn good time.  Althea, Iko Iko, Uncle John's Band, and The Wheel>Watchtower>Morning Dew close with the Rain finish were the highlights of the night for me.  It's a great 94 show, in my extremely biased opinion.

https://archive.org/details/gd94-03-17.sbd.ladner.8023.sbeok.shnf

I'll be having a drink and reliving it tonight. 

[Guest Lobo]

Just remembered, I was at the 9th & 11th of Rosemont in 1993.  A whole 'nother life ago and then some.  

[Hate 20,106]

It's depressing to listen to the difference in the way Jerry sounded between my first show (6/13/93) and the anniversary show of tonight 3/17/94.  Musically Jerry was still pretty solid, but his singing wasn't anything close to what it had been.  That being said, the Rain encore was and is outstanding.