2019 NBA FInals - Warriors vs. Raptors

[Patrick Bateman 3,945]

29 minutes ago, UTDD said:

You can't really compare KD replacements say last year due to the cap, you have to go back to when he first signed.  Who else could they have gotten instead and would that team have been able to win titles?  They would not be as good with almost anyone else they could have gotten but it's certainly possible they could have still had a dynastic type of run with another very good star instead of KD.  Or perhaps possibly a deeper bench overall and a good but not great wing could have still been a very formidable team.

Here's an article at some names they were linked to if KD didn't work out.  Again, the most obvious would have been to keep Bogut, re-sign Barnes and then run it back from a 73 win regular season.

Quote

Free agents Nicolas Batum and Evan Turner are among the players being considered at small forward, per sources, if the Warriors don’t get Kevin Durant. Which means the Warriors will be taking a long, hard look at if they can do better than Harrison Barnes.

To be sure, the Warriors are not going to throw Barnes away. His ill-timed slump in the NBA Finals hasn’t wiped away his defensive versatility and his well-timed big games leading up to the Finals.

The Warriors won’t part ways with Barnes unless they can for sure get someone better. They could get gun shy at $23.5 million, which is the max the Barnes could get, if someone offers him. But if they are willing to pay $20 million, what’s really the difference?

Nic Batum got 5/120 in what turned out to be an awful, awful contract but it also probably priced him out of the Warriors plans.  Turner's 4/70 million is much more realistic as an option.  They were also linked to big men like Pau Gasol (Spurs fans wish they would have signed him rather than us), Al Horford or Joakim Noah.  Horford got maxed out so he most likely wasn't an option.  Noah got dumb money too so maybe Gasol although they still would have needed a swing man.

Another article about possible options if they struck out with KD and moved on from Barnes:

Quote

The problem with not signing Barnes is he is the power forward in the “Lineup of Death”. Barnes can defend bigger players (very crucial) and stretch the defense with his 3 point shooting and has a little driving ability. So which free agents can do those things and cost between $10-$15M (current max Warriors can offer a free agent) in a summer when almost every NBA team has salary cap space.

Possible Targets

1. Marvin Williams - He might be out of the Warriors price range and not an exact fit. He is more of a small ball center and not a power forward and doesn’t have the play making abilities of Barnes.
2. Evan Turner - An interesting play. Not the shooter Barnes is but more of a playmaker. I am not sure of his ability to guard bigger players and get rebounds but a possibility.
3. Luol Deng - Is a slightly older and less athletic Barnes. It seems like Deng came into the NBA 4–5 years too early. He seems like a great fit for a small ball 4 and could be a plug-n-play with the Lineup of Death.
4. Jared Dudley - Similar to Deng but don’t see him as a 30 minutes player now.
5. Mirza Teletovic - He is not a replacement for Barnes but might be a replacement for Speights.
6. Resign Brandon Rush - Rush provides 90% of what Barnes provides. Probably a little better on offense but definitely worse on defense. Remember the Ws went 16–2 with Rush replacing Barnes last year inspiring some to question should Rush start even when Barnes is back.[2] This really should be a top priority just as protection if Barnes leaves.

Uhm.... yea, none of those guys was going to stop them from getting beat by Houston or outplaying Lebron.  Getting another superstar wasn't a strong possibility if KD didn't come so folks probably need to chill with those ideas.

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

If they run it back with Barnes they beat Houston IMO. That Houston team didn’t have it in them to beat GS. James Harden, CP3, MIke D’Antoni, that team is built to reach a certain point, and getting to the WCF was then maxing out last year. They played up to their competition with KD there, and they probably would’ve played down to their competition if he wasn’t there, just like they did in game 6 this year. 

Now if you want to definitively say they aren’t beating Lebron, even thought they were up 3-1 and went 7 games against him the year before, then I don’t know what to tell you. That was a back and forth series that anyone could’ve taken. If you want to call those teams even teams, I’ll listen to that argument. I don’t agree, because I think GS was better, but it isn’t outrageous to think that. That’s just my opinion. But you’re crazy if you’re saying “that team isn’t beating lebron”

[WBT 20,776]

6 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Sedale Threatt agrees with you.

and Mario Elie

[NowThis 931]

51 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

No, there really weren't. Find me one talking head--dudes who get paid to be contrarian--who would actually put their name behind that. No one with a clue actually believed that Golden State is better w/o KD.

why do paid talking heads matter? They are right/wrong as the more than casual fan. Everyone acknowledges that the offense flows better when KD is out; Steph & Klay are more productive, they were 32-2 w/SC and no KD right? That stat was all over the media.  I'm thinking that even with KD they still lose the series. Problem is they can't stop KL and the TOR outside shooting has been amazing.  TOR bigs are getting lots of easy buckets. I don't think KD would make that much of a difference now that i think about it a little more. 

[NowThis 931]

1 hour ago, d2o said:

not even in today's small ball is Siakim a 5.   he is a 3/4.   Just like Ceballos was

lulz CC was never a 4 .. he just ran up adn down the baseline looking for a shot. He never played D and hated contact. 

[Message Board User 12,397]

17 minutes ago, NowThis said:

why do paid talking heads matter? They are right/wrong as the more than casual fan. Everyone acknowledges that the offense flows better when KD is out; Steph & Klay are more productive, they were 32-2 w/SC and no KD right? That stat was all over the media.  I'm thinking that even with KD they still lose the series. Problem is they can't stop KL and the TOR outside shooting has been amazing.  TOR bigs are getting lots of easy buckets. I don't think KD would make that much of a difference now that i think about it a little more. 

Maybe, and I'm just spitballing here, having KD on defense would maybe slow down Kawhi and the Toronto bigs?  

Everyone seems to be focusing on what KD's loss means to the GS offense, but GS is missing him just as much (if not more) on the defensive end.  KD's length was a primary reason Harden was so pedestrian in the Houston series.

[hobbes2702 13,171]

35 minutes ago, NowThis said:

why do paid talking heads matter? They are right/wrong as the more than casual fan. Everyone acknowledges that the offense flows better when KD is out; Steph & Klay are more productive, they were 32-2 w/SC and no KD right? That stat was all over the media.  I'm thinking that even with KD they still lose the series. Problem is they can't stop KL and the TOR outside shooting has been amazing.  TOR bigs are getting lots of easy buckets. I don't think KD would make that much of a difference now that i think about it a little more. 

Best player in the world and their best rim protector wouldn’t make a difference. Ok guy 

[aggie08 21,607]

34 minutes ago, NowThis said:

why do paid talking heads matter? They are right/wrong as the more than casual fan. Everyone acknowledges that the offense flows better when KD is out; Steph & Klay are more productive, they were 32-2 w/SC and no KD right? That stat was all over the media.  I'm thinking that even with KD they still lose the series. Problem is they can't stop KL and the TOR outside shooting has been amazing.  TOR bigs are getting lots of easy buckets. I don't think KD would make that much of a difference now that i think about it a little more. 

Talking heads have no problem throwing out the stupidest, most under-researched hot takes out there. Yet, none of them put their names behind that one.

[elguapo 4,597]

why do paid talking heads matter? They are right/wrong as the more than casual fan. Everyone acknowledges that the offense flows better when KD is out; Steph & Klay are more productive, they were 32-2 w/SC and no KD right? That stat was all over the media.  I'm thinking that even with KD they still lose the series. Problem is they can't stop KL and the TOR outside shooting has been amazing.  TOR bigs are getting lots of easy buckets. I don't think KD would make that much of a difference now that i think about it a little more. 

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

54 minutes ago, NowThis said:

why do paid talking heads matter? They are right/wrong as the more than casual fan. Everyone acknowledges that the offense flows better when KD is out; Steph & Klay are more productive, they were 32-2 w/SC and no KD right? That stat was all over the media.  I'm thinking that even with KD they still lose the series. Problem is they can't stop KL and the TOR outside shooting has been amazing.  TOR bigs are getting lots of easy buckets. I don't think KD would make that much of a difference now that i think about it a little more. 

Congrats on the regular season title.   

[NowThis 931]

41 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Maybe, and I'm just spitballing here, having KD on defense would maybe slow down Kawhi and the Toronto bigs?  

Everyone seems to be focusing on what KD's loss means to the GS offense, but GS is missing him just as much (if not more) on the defensive end.  KD's length was a primary reason Harden was so pedestrian in the Houston series.

KD didn't play in Games 5 and 6 vs. Houston right? It's easy to beat KD off the dribble btw. 

[hobbes2702 13,171]

Just now, NowThis said:

KD didn't play in Games 5 and 6 vs. Houston right? It's easy to beat KD off the dribble btw. 

Honestly man, and it’s ok if you don’t, do you ever watch basketball?

[elguapo 4,597]

KD didn't play in Games 5 and 6 vs. Houston right? It's easy to beat KD off the dribble btw. 

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

Sticking by my warriors in 5.   Ball moves better without kd

[UTDD 362]

3 hours ago, Patrick Bateman said:

Here's an article at some names they were linked to if KD didn't work out.  Again, the most obvious would have been to keep Bogut, re-sign Barnes and then run it back from a 73 win regular season.

Nic Batum got 5/120 in what turned out to be an awful, awful contract but it also probably priced him out of the Warriors plans.  Turner's 4/70 million is much more realistic as an option.  They were also linked to big men like Pau Gasol (Spurs fans wish they would have signed him rather than us), Al Horford or Joakim Noah.  Horford got maxed out so he most likely wasn't an option.  Noah got dumb money too so maybe Gasol although they still would have needed a swing man.

Another article about possible options if they struck out with KD and moved on from Barnes:

Uhm.... yea, none of those guys was going to stop them from getting beat by Houston or outplaying Lebron.  Getting another superstar wasn't a strong possibility if KD didn't come so folks probably need to chill with those ideas.

I think their only two best options most likely with hindsight were to keep Barnes or actually wait another year with a one year stop gap for better options long-term.  I think Barnes on the team does beat Houston (mostly because I just don't trust Harden when it counts to be blunt) but LeBron is another story perhaps.  I think that 2017 Cavs team was really good offensively.  They are obviously very lucky they didn't have to consider Batum (I think that might have been a possibility at the time) because of how he has turned out.

[Thatguy 9,073]

11 hours ago, Burt Macklin said:

Hey, Zavala your stupid is showing.

In honor of Kevin Durant's $3 million contribution to the University in 2017, the main entrance to the Denton A. Cooley Pavilion is named The Kevin Durant Texas Basketball Center. In addition, the men's basketball facilities are renamed The Kevin Durant Basketball Facility for Men.

That Tech education isn’t working out so well for you, is it? Without KD, they probably only have one title right now and that title was against a Cavs team missing 2 of its best 3 players and it still went 6 games. They almost definitely lose to the Cavs in 2017 and the Rockets in 2018 and clearly wouldn’t win it this year, either. Even say they win one of those titles, 2 titles in 5 years isn’t a dynasty.

If you’re talking about the top teams in each conference, then yeah there’s an argument, but the West is clearly better overall. After GSW and the East’s big 3, the Next 7 best teams are all from the West and there’s about 11 teams in the West that could’ve finished as a 6 seed or higher in the East.

   Boston fits somewhere in there, and Indy might too. The West was seriously watered down this year. Think about a few years ago and what the West was like compared to now. Now fast forward to this year and the West is full of no name teams with guys who are almost good. Portland, a team that hasn't changed it's spots, has benefited from this. They were an 8 seed with the same guys, barely making the playoffs. This year they are a 3 seed? I think we all saw it's the same Portland.

[Burt Macklin 19,149]

34 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

   Boston fits somewhere in there, and Indy might too. The West was seriously watered down this year. Think about a few years ago and what the West was like compared to now. Now fast forward to this year and the West is full of no name teams with guys who are almost good. Portland, a team that hasn't changed it's spots, has benefited from this. They were an 8 seed with the same guys, barely making the playoffs. This year they are a 3 seed? I think we all saw it's the same Portland.

Lol. If the West was watered down, then what was the East this year?

 You want to talk about mediocre teams benefitting from a weak conference, go look at the top 5 seeds in the east getting to play the other 10 teams in the East for like half their schedule. Boston and Indy had massively inflated win totals compared to teams in the West.

[goatsaag 279]

5 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

If they run it back with Barnes they beat Houston IMO. That Houston team didn’t have it in them to beat GS. James Harden, CP3, MIke D’Antoni, that team is built to reach a certain point, and getting to the WCF was then maxing out last year. They played up to their competition with KD there, and they probably would’ve played down to their competition if he wasn’t there, just like they did in game 6 this year.

Yeah I mean, the Rockets loss last year that included an injury to the Rockets 2nd best player, horrible officiating, and a historically bad stretch of shooting obviously indicates that the only possible outcome in that series was a Warriors win. Houston just didn't have it in them. Same this year in a 6 game series where every game was decided by two possessions or less. With games that close, it's clear that this Houston roster just isn't good enough to ever possibly beat Golden State.

What a stupid take.

[Reynolds Woodcock 4,886]

Are Thatguy and Nowthis both socks of P from TOS? Both have monumentally dimwitted takes that really remind me of P’s special brand of self-assured stupidity. Siakam = CWeb and GSW w/o KD > GS w/ KD are just icing on the cake.

[BigOrange1 6,565]

i don't know if he is a P sock or not, but now this has horrible fucking takes and has for a while now.  he's an idiot.

[Michael Knight 13,093]

Look,  I think we can all agree that the Spurs with Kawhi would have won it all this year

[Message Board User 12,397]

5 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

Look,  I think we can all agree that the Spurs with Kawhi would have won it all this year

What about the Spurs with KD?

[Tylerocks 2,557]

NowThis has awful, awful opinions.  It's like he's our own Skip Bayless.

[Horn80 6,241]

Kerr showing that without all his superstar players, he’s just another coach.

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

20 minutes ago, Horn80 said:

Kerr showing that without all his superstar players, he’s just another coach.

He still has his all stars.   All except kd who most here said was irrelevant 

[ChickenSandwich 9,861]

19 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

The warriors are a shell of who they are at full strength. Kd is out, klay is probably at 70%, boogie is out of rhythm, looney is hurt and playing but they are not healthy and if they were Toronto would not be up 3-1. 

If there is ever an asterisk championship this is definitely one.

And this is why if Durant leaves, they will need a major influx in talent to make the finals again. An 80 game season plus playoffs will have Curry and Klay in the training room often. 

[Brian Fantana 6,723]

19 hours ago, Rockethorn1978 said:

The warriors are a shell of who they are at full strength. Kd is out, klay is probably at 70%, boogie is out of rhythm, looney is hurt and playing but they are not healthy and if they were Toronto would not be up 3-1. 

If there is ever an asterisk championship this is definitely one.

There's a 0% chance you said this in 2015.

[Barry_McCokiner 160]

42 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

There's a 0% chance you said this two weeks ago

Fify 

[Goo Punch 4,275]

11 hours ago, BigOrange1 said:

i don't know if he is a P sock or not, but now this has horrible fucking takes and has for a while now.  he's an idiot.

 

3 hours ago, Tylerocks said:

NowThis has awful, awful opinions.  It's like he's our own Skip Bayless.

i called him out months ago as being a professional troll, so this all adds up. 

[Patrick Bateman 3,945]

Sort of feels like Rocko.  P kind of took himself and his basketball opinions seriously and it always came back to worshipping at the altar of Lebron.  

[Thatguy 9,073]

Lol. If the West was watered down, then what was the East this year?
 You want to talk about mediocre teams benefitting from a weak conference, go look at the top 5 seeds in the east getting to play the other 10 teams in the East for like half their schedule. Boston and Indy had massively inflated win totals compared to teams in the West.

You don't get how basketball works. You play the same guy all the time and he gets a feel for your moves and how to play against you. Even teams that arent that good are capable of beating you quite frequently in an 82 game schedule, when they see you all the time. That does not mean they are your equal. At the end of the day basketball is about players. 9 times out of 10 the team with the best players wins. The East used to be a one or two team league. Now the top 5 teams have good rosters. That was not the case before.



Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Thatguy 9,073]

Sort of feels like Rocko.  P kind of took himself and his basketball opinions seriously and it always came back to worshipping at the altar of Lebron.  

I stand by what I say rather than flip flopping back and forth play to play, series to series. Most of the people here go as ESPN goes.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

13 hours ago, goatsaag said:

Yeah I mean, the Rockets loss last year that included an injury to the Rockets 2nd best player, horrible officiating, and a historically bad stretch of shooting obviously indicates that the only possible outcome in that series was a Warriors win. Houston just didn't have it in them. Same this year in a 6 game series where every game was decided by two possessions or less. With games that close, it's clear that this Houston roster just isn't good enough to ever possibly beat Golden State.

What a stupid take.

One of the funny things about this post is, you can’t even say with a straight face that you have confidence in those 3 guys when adversity hits. Because you don’t. 

And “horrible officiating” might as well be a slogan for the rockets organization. It’s the easiest go to excuse. Look man, you have a solid team. Harden is a great player. CP3 was a great player at one time. Mike D’Antoni is a lot better than any rockets fan will ever give him credit for. Just because they aren’t built for that moment and their careers have proven that doesn’t mean they aren’t still a really good team. I just think you guys maxed out two years ago.

Your entire organization spent all offseason with the idea of “if we run this back, we got em this time. We just got unlucky near the end with injuries. Oh, and the horrible officiating, of course. Not our fault.” and this year you caught the warriors at the right time. They lost their best player. An all time great player. No team should be able to come back from that, especially not against the 2nd best team in their conference. That should’ve been a better excuse than losing CP3 last year, but they still went to Houston and beat you guys in an elimination game. They have guys with championship DNA. The raptors have guys with championship DNA. Houston doesn’t. They have guys that are known for folding in that moment, even if the game is close. Hell, we saw CP3 do it against the rockets before he went there. We saw Harden do it against the spurs. This isn’t a new development. It’s who they are until proven otherwise. Basketball is different than other sports in the sense that you’re only going to go as far as your stars can take you. You need other pieces, but ultimately, you’re only going to go as far as your stars can carry you. Until proven otherwise, I just don’t think those guys can do it. And if you’re being honest with yourself, I don’t think you think so either.

[Machinator 32,099]

 

[conVINCEd 21,474]

Daniel Larusso Kevin Durant is gonna fight play.

[XYZ 2,154]

I hope KD plays in game 5, and plays well.

[Horn80 6,241]

KD time.  Raptors sphincter just got tighter than a snare drum.

[hobbes2702 13,171]

Let’s see how he looks before we start crowning them. He hasn’t played in weeks, they are down 1-3, and they have looked clueless on defense. I hope KD is healthy and ready cuz it could make this more exciting but at this point I would still bet on the Raps to close this out tomorrow 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,921]

Kd at 65% sure beats jerebko and cook getting valuable run.

Hope KD gets this to 7 games..I don't want the summer sports abyss to begin.

[totallynotabuttpirate 5,421]

Heck, he's probably an upgrade at 50%. Just stand there on offense and shoot like he can on one leg. On defense, just don't go full retard on 70% of possessions like the bench scrubs and it's a net win.  

[HookEm 2,472]

Probably not the best comp, but Siakam reminds me of a longer version of Rip Hamilton.

In fact this whole Toronto team reminds me of the title winning Pistons team from the 2000s. Great defenders everywhere and overall well constructed team.

People always underrate defense. Toronto has two DPOY in Kawhi and M. Gasol, another 1st Team defender in Ibaka, and another 2nd Team defender in Danny Green. Lowry has been top 20 in def win shares. That's not even counting the young guys who can all D up.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[APMP 688]

I don't know that having KD matters.

Kahwi is a killer, and he's waited years for this. Not even a Zaza cheap shot will save the Warriors this series.

[Brian Fantana 6,723]

34 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Probably not the best comp, but Siakam reminds me of a longer version of Rip Hamilton.

In fact this whole Toronto team reminds me of the title winning Pistons team from the 2000s. Great defenders everywhere and overall well constructed team.

People always underrate defense. Toronto has two DPOY in Kawhi and M. Gasol, another 1st Team defender in Ibaka, and another 2nd Team defender in Danny Green. Lowry has been top 20 in def win shares. That's not even counting the young guys who can all D up.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

Same here, I think the Pistons comparison is pretty apt. And I think Siakam is kind of a decent combination of Rip and Tashaun Prince.

KD coming back is not going to save the Warriors.

[South Austin 52,765]

Rooting like mad for Golden State to win tomorrow and extend this series another game. I’ll be in Toronto on Thursday, and even though that game will be at Golden State, how cool would it be to be in Toronto when that team wins an NBA title? Can you imagine how polite and orderly all the rioting and looting will be?

[housious 468]

30 minutes ago, APMP said:

I don't know that having KD matters.

Kahwi is a killer, and he's waited years for this. Not even a Zaza cheap shot will save the Warriors this series.

He choked away a championship in 2013. Why not do it again?

[youdunnf'dup 2,147]

1 hour ago, housious said:

He choked away a championship in 2013. Why not do it again?

Lol what are you referring to? I can name a lot of people that came up short in games 6 and 7 of that series, including Duncan with a few layups/put backs? But I’m blanking on what specific play or game you’re talking about. 

[housious 468]

4 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Lol what are you referring to? I can name a lot of people that came up short in games 6 and 7 of that series, including Duncan with a few layups/put backs? But I’m blanking on what specific play or game you’re talking about. 

Missing a game clinching free throw right before Ray Allen did his thing 

[hookem48 4,718]

the cynical old bastard in me figures the refs are going to screw Toronto to tears tomorrow.

[Guest]

IDGAF who in particular is playing...how in the fuck do they not have a game on Saturday or Sunday?

[Pimphand 6,090]

Agreement with the NHL to not have the games on the same day. Now why both the NHL and NBA both need two days off between each game bottles the mind.