Your Unpopular Opinion

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

24 minutes ago, BradInATX said:

I think he's taking the very realpolitik position. Freakonomics did a chapter on abortion and essentially proved, statistically anyway, that abortion creates much healthier societies. 

Of course that's all ignoring the ethics of it completely, which I think is his point and why he's posting it on the unpopular opinion thread. His post is actually unpopular which I appreciate because 75% of the posts here are not unpopular in any fashion, especially on Surly.

Is it unpopular? My support for abortion has always been through the lens of population control.

I thought he was saying we shouldn't have made slavery illegal because it caused more problems than it solved. 

Are we sure that's not what he's saying?  

[BradInATX 9208]

1 minute ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Is it unpopular? My support for abortion has always been through the lens of population control.

I thought he was saying we shouldn't have made slavery illegal because it caused more problems than it solved. 

Are we sure that's not what he's saying?  

I'll let him speak for himself on your last question.

 

But I would definitely think that abortion as population control is not a popular opinion. Amongst the  half (or whatever it is) of the country that is pro-choice, I'd think that 80+% of those folks are driven by woman's right to choose, not population control or anything like that.

Edited May 29, 2019 by BradInATX

[DigglerontheHoof 21044]

wrong thread

Edited May 29, 2019 by DigglerontheHoof
wrong thread

[Guest Lobo]

Abortion was legalized by upper-middle class white women.  It's kept legal for another set of demographics, altogether.  

Edited May 29, 2019 by Lobo

[Henry Hill 3156]

In favor of abortion, assisted suicide and death penalty for population and society control. Life is typically overvalued and the willingness to keep people alive at all costs is a constant drain on our society.

[Guest Lobo]

The Soviet Socialists had it right---two men, one rifle.  

[Zavala 1384]

44 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

democracy is overrated.  i used to like william buckley's quote about "rather being governed by the first 1000 names in the phone book" and now think the exact opposite. only the super capable seem to have the ability to fight their biases, follow reason, reach conclusions based on evidence, etc.  i haven't figured out how to get those people in charge while excluding those that would use their abilities wrongly though.

it's fundamental to my profession that argument in front of 12 people -- a stand in for a cross section of society -- is largely about putting on an emotional dog and pony show because that is what they'll respond to.  and you'd have been better off having settled long before you get there because god knows what they are going to do.  quite an indictment.

Read this. I agree democracy only works with a well informed population, choosing officials that aren't corrupt. One way to do that could be to only allow leaders that have risked their life for the country, and only count votes of those who have risked their life for the country. 

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

i'd like to know more.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

Just now, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

i'd like to know more.

^unpopular opinion

[Hate 20103]

 

lol...dumb post amnesty? I had forgotten US Reps are 2 year terms. So I should have said 2 terms for Senators and 6 for Reps.

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

Unpopular opinion?

Trump would have been the Democratic candidate in any other decade. 

[Zavala 1384]

39 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

i'd like to know more.

lol The movie was an attempt at mockery at the right wing Military Democracy - but accidentally made it look really cool. 

Quote

It is a complete mystery as to why Paul Verhoeven was chosen to direct a film adaptation of a book he didn’t remotely like, and admittedly never even read:

“I stopped after two chapters because it was so boring,…It is really quite a bad book. I asked Ed Neumeier to tell me the story because I just couldn’t read the thing. It’s a very right-wing book.”

 

[formermav43 4599]

3 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

The juxtaposition of April 15 and July 4 is mindboggling to me. One day you're anti-American trying to cheat the government and the next you are wrapping yourself in the flag saying how much you love the good ole USA.

I’d say there’s nothing more American than trying to get out of paying your taxes. It’s the main reason there is a July 4.

[SimonBolivar 10910]

26 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I’d say there’s nothing more American than trying to get out of paying your taxes. It’s the main reason there is a July 4.

Too bad George Washington isn't around to James McFarlane these cheating motherfuckers anymore.

[formermav43 4599]

12 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Too bad George Washington isn't around to James McFarlane these cheating motherfuckers anymore.

The main difference between them is that Washington won his rebellion against paying taxes.

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

We are going to have an election in 2020 between two old white guys and "the winning team" will celebrate as if they've actually accomplished something.

[F250 28674]

2 hours ago, Zavala said:

lol The movie was an attempt at mockery at the right wing Military Democracy - but accidentally made it look really cool. 

 

It's been years since I've seen the movie and even longer since I read the book. From what I remember the Movie was a satire of fascism that used the book's title and outline as a vehicle for telling a story where the heroes are essentially Nazi's. The movie never addressed the ideas presented in the book at all but just used the story as a means of telling a story from the perspective of the fascists.

[Fozzz 152]

2 hours ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Unpopular opinion?

Trump would have been the Democratic candidate in any other decade. 

There is not much separating Trump from prior Republican administrations beginning with Reagan.  Maybe Nixon would have worked better in your example, although he probably would be too left-wing for the Dems today.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Fozzz

[bernorange 8348]

Our monetary system is insane.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

3 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

There is not much separating Trump from prior Republican administrations beginning with Reagan.  Maybe Nixon would have worked better in your example, although he probably would be too left-wing for the Dems today.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall if that is what you want to do.  Most of the U.S. intelligence agencies agree you should do that, but if you say you shouldn't, I don't have a reason to disagree with you."

[RDCanecutter 26246]

I don't care one way or another about bacon.

[Fozzz 152]

4 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall if that is what you want to do.  Most of the U.S. intelligence agencies agree you should do that, but if you say you shouldn't, I don't have a reason to disagree with you."

lol Trump's admin wants to start large wars on at least two different continents right now and you are critiquing him as being too much of a dove?  However, to Trump's credit, his perception of the world does not appear to be as childlike and cartoonish as Reagan's.  He has some brains.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

lol Trump's admin wants to start large wars on at least two different continents right now and you are critiquing him as being too much of a dove?  However, to Trump's credit, his perception of the world does not appear to be as childlike and cartoonish as Reagan's.  He has some brains.

If it was opaque, let me try again.  It's laughable to say not much separates Reagan from Trump, when the most visible foreign policy actions from both are their 180 degree opposite stances toward Russia.

[Horn Dog 9671]

Masturbation should be illegal since it results a disruption of potential life.  Each time you blow your  load in a dirty sock it is as if millions of voices suddenly cry out in terror and are silenced.

[Fozzz 152]

19 minutes ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

If it was opaque, let me try again.  It's laughable to say not much separates Reagan from Trump, when the most visible foreign policy actions from both are their 180 degree opposite stances toward Russia.

You do know that Russia and the Soviet Union are not the same thing, yes?  The closer analog to the Soviet Union in today's world would be China, and how has Trump's admin acted towards them?  It's also untrue that Trump's admin has not been hawkish towards Russia.  This is the same admin that wants to topple two governments that are on good terms with Russia (Iran being on more than good terms with Russia), tried to killthe German-Russian gas pipeline, and broke the INF treaty.   

[workswithseed 2033]

7 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Why, because he said the N-word? His actions spoke far louder than that. Unless you consider the Civil Rights Act and the appointment of Thurgood Marshall to be less important than his use of a word. 

No, It's cause his policies hurt them more than anything else. We are still having problems.

Edited May 29, 2019 by workswithseed

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

3 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

 No, It's cause his policies hurt them more than anything else. We are still having problems.

the right to vote being one, amirite?

[workswithseed 2033]

More like the welfare. 

[Helobious 9480]

I really don't mind paying taxes all that much. Both my parents were 1st-generation Americans. My dad used to tell me that nothing is truly free and that we aren't entitled to anything in life. He said that taxes are the price we pay to live in the best country in the world (this came from a guy who grew up so poor here he often slept on the porch because his one bedroom house was too small for his family of 10) . 

[Jiggy-Z 3432]

Humans are the scourge of the planet and we should limit ourselves via population control.

Yes we can limit our polluting energy consumption through "clean energy".  But what will that do?  It will enable us to prosper and multiply.

We can eliminate any world food shortages. But what will that do?  It will enable us to prosper and multiply.

We prolong life.  Not just a few years of meaningless existence at the end but really add some productive years. To what end end.  Same effect as prospering and multiplying.

We can stamp out racism, bigotry, global wars, religious persecution, pedophilia, sex trading, crime, and all manner of bad behavior.

In the end we will foul everything we touch due to our own success.

 

[F250 28674]

1 hour ago, RDCanecutter said:

I don't care one way or another about bacon.

 

How can anyone not care about bacon? It's bacon! I am not a fan of pork but I do love  bacon. Well, I also like ribs, pork chops, pork belly, pulled pork, pork sausage, carnitas, cracklings and tamales but not really a pork fan.

[SimonBolivar 10910]

37 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

No, It's cause his policies hurt them more than anything else. We are still having problems.

Are you trying to argue that the policies of the Johnson Administration did more harm to minorities than it helped them? What great negatives can outweigh the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965? Please make sure you cite some sources since this is going to completely transform the historiography of his administration.  

Edited May 29, 2019 by SimonBolivar

[SimonBolivar 10910]

43 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

More like the welfare. 

As in TANF or SNAP or SSI or Medicaid or what? Please tell us which welfare programs are currently being used to keep minorities down and how that relates to black lives before the Johnson Administration. Extra points if you can show how Jim Crow laws and disenfranchisement are better than a poor black kid being on Medicaid because he hasn't pulled himself up by his bootstraps yet.

Edited May 29, 2019 by SimonBolivar

[Bobby_Batronic 1994]

5 hours ago, Fozzz said:

There is not much separating Trump from prior Republican administrations beginning with Reagan.  Maybe Nixon would have worked better in your example, although he probably would be too left-wing for the Dems today.

Nah. Trump isn’t very conservative at all in action speech or policy. He just looks that way compared to what passes for a Democratic candidate these days. He would have been nigh unelectable as an R before Barry was in office. 

[zork 629]

3 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

Are you trying to argue that the policies of the Johnson Administration did more harm to minorities than it helped them? What great negatives can outweigh the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965? Please make sure you cite some sources since this is going to completely transform the historiography of his administration.  

Is there something to the discussion that the welfare programs from that time caused a shift away from two parent families for some?  And that the studies since, much more recently perhaps, clearly show that two parent families are a yuge predictor of the success of the next generation in a given family?

[Fozzz 152]

15 minutes ago, Bobby_Batronic said:

Nah. Trump isn’t very conservative at all in action speech or policy. He just looks that way compared to what passes for a Democratic candidate these days. He would have been nigh unelectable as an R before Barry was in office. 

Trump’s admin isn’t conservative in its policymaking? Lol.  It was stocked by the Heritage Foundation. 

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

33 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Trump’s admin isn’t conservative in its policymaking? Lol.  It was stocked by the Heritage Foundation. 

Nobody has been there longer than 6 months or so. There is no guiding principle behind this administration. It’s just a fucking idiot watching Fox News and tweeting all day.

[workswithseed 2033]

1 hour ago, zork said:

Is there something to the discussion that the welfare programs from that time caused a shift away from two parent families for some?  And that the studies since, much more recently perhaps, clearly show that two parent families are a yuge predictor of the success of the next generation in a given family?

This, this what I'm saying. 

[SimonBolivar 10910]

12 hours ago, zork said:

Is there something to the discussion that the welfare programs from that time caused a shift away from two parent families for some?  And that the studies since, much more recently perhaps, clearly show that two parent families are a yuge predictor of the success of the next generation in a given family?

Sure if you point to studies that show Johnson Era welfare programs specifically causing African Americans to abandon the nuclear family. I find that to be fairly unlikely if you look at his actual policies which were Medicare/Medicaid, expansion of SSA (not SSI yet), Food Stamps, and various educational programs. Also it would be tough to quantitatively show that these are direct results of these welfare programs and have nothing to do with culture changes in society. Also while poverty began to drop in the late 50's it did drop considerably after Johnson's policies came out

 

That doesn't even begin the arguement of comparing the "harms" of welfare vs the harms of Jim Crow and disenfranchisement. I mean hell you couldn't even play football at the University of Texas if you were black during this era.

Edited May 30, 2019 by SimonBolivar

[zork 629]

https://www.heritage.org/welfare/report/how-welfare-undermines-marriage-and-what-do-about-it

 

This is race independent as far as I know.  I'm certainly not a sociological expert but I did stay at several Holiday Inn Express type hotels with IHG rewards being awesome since they never expire unlike the shitty HHonors program and the Comfort Inn programs that expire rather quickly without use.

[workswithseed 2033]

56 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Sure if you point to studies that show Johnson Era welfare programs specifically causing African Americans to abandon the nuclear family. I find that to be fairly unlikely if you look at his actual policies which were Medicare/Medicaid, expansion of SSA (not SSI yet), Food Stamps, and various educational programs. Also it would be tough to quantitatively show that these are direct results of these welfare programs and have nothing to do with culture changes in society. Also while poverty began to drop in the late 50's it did drop considerably after Johnson's policies came out

 

That doesn't even begin the arguement of comparing the "harms" of welfare vs the harms of Jim Crow and disenfrisement. I mean hell you couldn't even play football at the University of Texas if you were black during this era.

So what made the black nuclear family implode? Seems weird that all of a sudden racism got rid of the family.

[DigglerontheHoof 21044]

Obama begat Trump and Trump will begat something worse.  Let the death spiral continue....

[Cheeseweasel 26437]

11 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Nobody has been there longer than 6 months or so. There is no guiding principle behind this administration. It’s just a fucking idiot watching Fox News and tweeting all day.

Truth, right here. Historians are going to have a difficult time figuring out what The Trump Doctrine was. 

[Chuckie Finster 22598]

34 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Truth, right here. Historians are going to have a difficult time figuring out what The Trump Doctrine was. 

Own the libs.  That's seriously fucking it.  

[Fozzz 152]

12 hours ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

Nobody has been there longer than 6 months or so. There is no guiding principle behind this administration. It’s just a fucking idiot watching Fox News and tweeting all day.

The first point is exaggerated, but even if it were true it would have no bearing on my assertion.  The second point is laughably false.  

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

15 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

The first point is exaggerated, but even if it were true it would have no bearing on my assertion.  The second point is laughably false.  

He doesn’t read. Think about that. His advisors have to use pictures to keep his attention. He’s borderline retarded and he has your full support.

[Fozzz 152]

4 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

He doesn’t read. Think about that. His advisors have to use pictures to keep his attention. He’s borderline retarded and he has your full support.

I don't care if Trump reads or is even literate.  Reagan was shitting in diapers by the end of his eight years, does that make the end of his presidency not conservative?

[David Dennison 18646]

10 hours ago, workswithseed said:

So what made the black nuclear family implode? Seems weird that all of a sudden racism got rid of the family.

Maybe make families eligible for benefits.

Just a thought.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

26 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I don't care if Trump reads or is even literate.

The Grand Old Party of 2019.

How many Put Reagan on the Rock petitions did you sign back in the day?

[NBMisha 224]

Unopular opinion:  Jane Fonda was right.