The Wire

[WhatTheBuck 28771]

Maurice Levy was the worst villain on the show. 

[Baboontyme 2809]

On 5/25/2020 at 10:29 AM, Homercles said:

Lester may be my favorite character. “Natural police”
 

 

 Lester was my 2nd fave character (Omar) until Season 5. He lost a couple of points. Still top 5. 

Also, why did they rando drop Rawls into a gay bar and then never make anything out of it? I was expecting that to come into play at some point. 

[Incredulity 11643]

Quote

Also, why did they rando drop Rawls into a gay bar and then never make anything out of it? I was expecting that to come into play at some point. 

I took it as informing his personality.  Closeted gay being self-loathing and taking it out on everyone else kind of cliche.

[hornmpa96 2618]

I just finished Season 1 last night and glad I decided to read this thread before starting Season 2. Since I’m aware of the change in focus, I won’t waste time wondering why it changed and just enjoy the show.

[TwiceHorn 31434]

One reason I liked Season 2 was that I am fascinated by maritime things.

Containers and automated ship loading/unloading eliminated a bunch of human jobs for obvious reasons.  But it also made all but the largest ports uneconomical.

The glimpse of that shown in Season 2 isn't documented anywhere else that I'm aware of.  I'm sure it's been written about extensively, but seeing it adds a dimension.

[Guest Lobo]

"We just gotta get that grain pier built!"  

Season 2 was filmed what, 20 years ago?  And the decaying institution of organized labor was already abundantly clear back then.  If your job is to manually unpack shipping containers by hand for human sorting and cross-docking...and you think your trade is gonna hit a hot streak in the 2010s and beyond, then yeah-a bullet in the head under the bridge is probably a best case scenario.  Frank saw that the future of his union, his port, and his son were all pretty fucking bleak.  He was simply trying to make hay while the sun was shining.  What's the cheapest way to go back and watch Season 2?  

[TheStoicPaisano 9922]

HBO Max or pay bout 10 fiddy to stream. 
 

Probably bought the series 6x over 13 years and 4 months. Truly generational.

[lateshow 1304]

This thread prompted me to do a fourth re-watch of the entire series. Just finished season 2. Can confirm it's greatness. 

[hobbes2702 13028]

Starting season 5 tonight in my rewatch. Not even sure if I’ll finish it but man the first four seasons are incredible still.

[Jive Turkey 12592]

On 5/18/2020 at 5:00 PM, Yev Kassem said:

Nicky’s gf’s tits are the best tits in the series and rank in the annals of HBO tits history along with Alexandra Daddario (a first ballot HOFer), Ros (Game of Thrones) and Sydney Sweeney (Euphoria). 

this man knows his stuff.  i'd add Lake Bell (How to Make it in America) to close out the top 5.  

i just started my first rewatch.  haven't seen it since 2012.  it's my GF's first time.  we're 4 episodes in.  damn, i love this show.  incredibly timely too, given the George Floyd death.  Carvey, Herc, and Prez just had their incident at the Towers, and Daniels is telling them out to properly lie to internal affairs so they can get away with it.

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

Just got HBO Max.  Will start for the first time.  Haven't read through the thread, nor plan on it til done.

[WhatTheBuck 28771]

5 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

Starting season 5 tonight in my rewatch. Not even sure if I’ll finish it but man the first four seasons are incredible still.

I finished my rewatch of season 5 over Memorial Day weekend. It really is pretty solid. It didn't go the way we expected it to when it first ran but once you've come to accept the choices they made with the story, the telling of it is pretty good. It resolves most of the storylines and still leaves the cycle continuing. 

It's fundamentally about budget shortfalls for the city and the mess that creates. And then it's one last McNulty "Fuck you" to the bosses to get his way. The course he chooses seems out of character for him and I think that's the biggest problem I had with it on first viewing. But if we accepted the introduction of the hypothetical in season 3 with the Hamsterdam storyline then we probably shouldn't complain too much about the serial killer scheme in season 5. The dynamic between McNulty and the reporter is an interesting twist. That was kind of clever. I think the season could've used a few more episodes to flesh out the story more. I don't know why they were limited to just ten episodes. 

I also watched the final episode with commentary from David Simon and Executive Producer Nina Noble. Most of those characters at The Sun are based on real people, including Scott Templeton. Some actual Sun reporters are also in the cast. 

Im betting that, once you start, you'll stick with it until the end. The payoff is worth it. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by WhatTheBuck

[WhatTheBuck 28771]

7 hours ago, lateshow said:

This thread prompted me to do a fourth re-watch of the entire series. Just finished season 2. Can confirm it's greatness. 

It wouldn't have been much of a show if it was just the cops chasing the Barksdale gang every season. Season 2 really opened things up and set the stage for the rest of the series. We get to know Prop Joe and the East side gang. We find out how he gets the good stuff from international smugglers, not that "stepped on shit" from New York. That factors in the rest of the series.

We see the death of blue collar jobs and the changing economic base of the city. The grain pier is dead, when Frank Sobotka looks at it all he sees are condominiums. I think that whole environment factors into Stringer's desire to become a developer and a legitimate businessman. 

Visually, I think the scenes at the docks are great. I love the look of the rainbow of different colored shipping containers. And it was educational. I really didn't know about or ever consider the state of the technology at a modern port. I recall around the time season 2 first aired seeing a documentary about the operation of some large port. Maybe it was in the Netherlands, maybe Antwerp, I'm not sure. But it was fascinating. That was nice timing. 

Theres just so much depth to that season. 

[Parliament 14227]

From Season 1. Best of the series right here. (Language nsfw)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/url]

 

 

 

 

ETA

 

No idea why Tappa keeps borking my spoiler. Figure it out. Don't watch the clips if you don't wanna get spoiled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheStoicPaisano 9922]

[Homercles 10205]

Earlier I said Lester is probably my favorite character.  But can I give Slim my nomination for best supporting?  Also this may be my favorite scene for Wood Harris:

 

[Celery Man 20929]

On 5/28/2020 at 1:58 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

Maurice Levy was the worst villain on the show. 

I was slowest on the uptake in terms of how big a piece of shit Herc is

[WhatTheBuck 28771]

17 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I was slowest on the uptake in terms of how big a piece of shit Herc is

Herc is a douchebag, that's for sure. Mostly he's just a meathead. But there's at least a little complexity to him. He lifts Marlo's phone number out of Levy's Rolodex. And when the investigators come looking for the camera he misappropriated, he took the heat himself and didn't let Sydnor take any of the blame. But you gotta figure that over time Levy would turn him thoroughly corrupt. That's the impression we get, anyway, when Levy invites him over for dinner. 

The separate tracks of Herc's and Carver's career paths is a great plot line that spans the whole series. 

[Celery Man 20929]

I think it didn't quite hit me the first time through how much he was responsible for Randy's misfortune. Also, I need to watch through again but I'm trying to remember if providing Marlo's number was explicitly self serving (he's not on team drug lord, he's on team drug lord lawyer, team billable hours).

[Celery Man 20929]

Also, Ziggy is a good character. He's pathetic, he's a shithead, but he's a good character. I'm getting the itch to watch the series again. James Ransone does a good job with him and there's something about him being... a constant fuckup, but he's a square peg in a round hole world (specifically the world of being a Baltimore dockworker) and he can work up neither the ability nor the will to cut and go try and be something entirely different. And he's fucked anyways because even the round peg guys are fucked.  He's a shithead and fuckup but if he was a Baltimore county lawyer's fuckup son he'd just be a goofy fuckup who ends up at whatever mid rated school and either grows out of it or into it. But he's not and he doesn't and even if he wasn't a fuckup he'd be at best a marginalized pseudo criminal.

[Homercles 10205]

Anyone else fee the need to give a shoutout (granted, a decade later) regarding the location scouts?  Now I know David Simon and his writing partner lived, worked and breathed Baltimore for decades but still...so many excellent filming of locations for shooting galleries, Omar’s apartment, the low rise / pit, hell even the location of the Barksdale police unit was perfect with the constant foot traffic overhead lending a constant reminder just how low priority the BPD brass put them.  
 

[lateshow 1304]

SIAP, but here is a 10 year retrospective.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2018/mar/06/the-wire-10-years-on-we-tore-the-cover-off-a-city-and-showed-the-american-dream-was-dead

[Gil Bang 25907]

Anyone else fee the need to give a shoutout (granted, a decade later) regarding the location scouts?  Now I know David Simon and his writing partner lived, worked and breathed Baltimore for decades but still...so many excellent filming of locations for shooting galleries, Omar’s apartment, the low rise / pit, hell even the location of the Barksdale police unit was perfect with the constant foot traffic overhead lending a constant reminder just how low priority the BPD brass put them.  
 

No love for the orange sofa

[Mac8111 2105]

I binged all the seasons of The Wire during 'Rona and have not read a single post in this thread. 

I know there were always stating that it was the best TV series etc etc, so I wanted to give it it's fair shot. 

I didn't know anything about it other than it was a police show. To be quite honest I thought this was the tv series with Michael Chicklis in it.  Thankfully, I was wrong. 

 

 

My random thoughts:

First season my reaction was that this was a pretty good overall series.  Definitely entertaining and well written.  Then as I rolled through seasons 2-4, I really enjoyed the layers of the writing as far as characters from previous seasons were intertwined through the story line while some may have just made spot appearances in their new story line.  The number one thing I saw from the series overall was the evolution of your emotions towards certain characters.  You rooted for some people you hated in the previous season and you saw some people you were pulling for before make bad decisions and fuck their life up. 

 

Seeing McNulty and Rawls on screen together made me laugh because in The Affair tv series, Rawls is the father in law to McNulty. 

I recognized Bunk's actor from Jack Ryan and Beadie from The Office. 

Obviously there was some heartbreaking scenes in regards to the teenagers in the series. 

I fucking loved Snoop.  By far gave me the most LOLs during the series. 

I thought the actor that played the passionate  newspaper editor killed it in his role.

Clay Davis dude played his role perfectly as well. 

Nudity level went way down as the series developed.  That's bullshit. 

Herc working for Levy was a little too convenient.  ( FYI - he has a small role in The King Of State Island movie that just came out)

I ended up loving Prop Joe. 

It was good to see the Wee-Bay scene that has become such a popular GIF around here. 

 

 

I will say that I was not a fan of season 5 in regards to the fake serial killer angle.  I hated that angle.  I get that they had to find a way for Jimmy to self sabotage himself one final time, but that plot line was weak. 

The whole rat race for police commissioner at the end was kind of a mess. 

 

 

I thought for sure that as McNulty was walking down the sidewalk outside the Irish bar in the final sequence that Bunk was going to come outside and throw up. 

 

 

Overall, I thought the series deserved the praise it has received from fans.  I don't know if it deserves GOAT praise, but it is definitely in the top 5 discussion for me. Very well done overall and they definitely delivered on giving us an ending we all wanted.  

 

I look forward to reading through this thread.

 

 

[billfromlaketravis 11445]

Peak The Sopranos was better than peak The Wire, but there are certainly better seasons of The Wire than The Sopranos. 

Probably not the most popular opinion around here, but I liked Marlo. Cold blooded and clever. He outwitted Prop Joe and Stringer. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by billfromlaketravis

[Incredulity 11643]

5 hours ago, Mac8111 said:

I binged all the seasons of The Wire during 'Rona and have not read a single post in this thread. 

I know there were always stating that it was the best TV series etc etc, so I wanted to give it it's fair shot. 

I didn't know anything about it other than it was a police show. To be quite honest I thought this was the tv series with Michael Chicklis in it.  Thankfully, I was wrong. 

 

 

My random thoughts:

First season my reaction was that this was a pretty good overall series.  Definitely entertaining and well written.  Then as I rolled through seasons 2-4, I really enjoyed the layers of the writing as far as characters from previous seasons were intertwined through the story line while some may have just made spot appearances in their new story line.  The number one thing I saw from the series overall was the evolution of your emotions towards certain characters.  You rooted for some people you hated in the previous season and you saw some people you were pulling for before make bad decisions and fuck their life up. 

 

Seeing McNulty and Rawls on screen together made me laugh because in The Affair tv series, Rawls is the father in law to McNulty. 

I recognized Bunk's actor from Jack Ryan and Beadie from The Office. 

Obviously there was some heartbreaking scenes in regards to the teenagers in the series. 

I fucking loved Snoop.  By far gave me the most LOLs during the series. 

I thought the actor that played the passionate  newspaper editor killed it in his role.

Clay Davis dude played his role perfectly as well. 

Nudity level went way down as the series developed.  That's bullshit. 

Herc working for Levy was a little too convenient.  ( FYI - he has a small role in The King Of State Island movie that just came out)

I ended up loving Prop Joe. 

It was good to see the Wee-Bay scene that has become such a popular GIF around here. 

 

 

I will say that I was not a fan of season 5 in regards to the fake serial killer angle.  I hated that angle.  I get that they had to find a way for Jimmy to self sabotage himself one final time, but that plot line was weak. 

The whole rat race for police commissioner at the end was kind of a mess. 

 

 

I thought for sure that as McNulty was walking down the sidewalk outside the Irish bar in the final sequence that Bunk was going to come outside and throw up. 

 

 

Overall, I thought the series deserved the praise it has received from fans.  I don't know if it deserves GOAT praise, but it is definitely in the top 5 discussion for me. Very well done overall and they definitely delivered on giving us an ending we all wanted.  

 

I look forward to reading through this thread.

 

 

I have said this in this thread and on TOS.

Give it a year or so and watch it again.  You will like it even more.

I did a 4th or 5th time through in May/June after probably 3 years or so. Picked up on new bits and pieces that were rewarding.  Really enjoyed it again.

[Jive Turkey 12592]

I just learned today that Cheese was Randy's biological father.  I looked up Cheese and it came up as "Melvin Wagstaff."  Wagstaff?  Gotta be related to Randy, right?

Quote

He even made a point of exonerating HBO for "The Wire's" shorter run this season by explaining that if they truly needed more time to wrap up their story (which initially included the revelation that Randy is indeed Cheese Wagstaff's son), HBO would have provided it.

https://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2008/03/the-wire-david.html

[BigHorn'13 3363]

Rewatching now. Brother mazzone or whatever his name is is an awesome character.

[henrygandorf 29189]

ok, so i'm on rewatch #12 or whatever, and i have a question, or it's possible i just stumbled upon a confusing discrepancy or inconsistency.  there's also a chance i misunderstood something, so hopefully someone explain it to me.

early in s3, cutty from the cut gets out, and gets a welcome home package from avon, obviously some sort of tradition.  he has instructions on where to get it, then obviously he can either sell it himself (some welcome home cash) or get one of the corner guys to do it for him (less cash, not as much risk).  so he goes to get the package, and i'm pretty sure he gets it from fruit, who's one of marlo's guys.

later, he comes to get the cash, but fruit tells him the stash got hit, and what a bummer but shit happens right?  then when cutty gets in his face, fruit pulls a gun, and cutty walks away.  this sets up the later scene when cutty has a chance to blow fruit's head off, and decides the game is no longer for him (i love cutty's arc, it rings true to me).  then, at the end of s3, he comes to check up on some of his kids he coaches, and comes face to face with fruit, who acts like a little bitch, knowing he owes his life to cutty's decision.

anyway, here's my question - if avon is giving welcome home packages, why is cutty going to marlo's guy to get it?  wouldn't avon's guy make more sense?  someone has to pay for it, and that someone would certainly be avon.  i know the later stuff is set up with this interaction, but the intro makes no sense.  avon and marlo weren't quite at war yet, but they weren't partners either.  and obviously it ramped up to full scale combat.

no idea if this has been covered in any of the 9 threads on various boards, most of which i've participated in.

[billfromlaketravis 11445]

8 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

ok, so i'm on rewatch #12 or whatever, and i have a question, or it's possible i just stumbled upon a confusing discrepancy or inconsistency.  there's also a chance i misunderstood something, so hopefully someone explain it to me.

early in s3, cutty from the cut gets out, and gets a welcome home package from avon, obviously some sort of tradition.  he has instructions on where to get it, then obviously he can either sell it himself (some welcome home cash) or get one of the corner guys to do it for him (less cash, not as much risk).  so he goes to get the package, and i'm pretty sure he gets it from fruit, who's one of marlo's guys.

later, he comes to get the cash, but fruit tells him the stash got hit, and what a bummer but shit happens right?  then when cutty gets in his face, fruit pulls a gun, and cutty walks away.  this sets up the later scene when cutty has a chance to blow fruit's head off, and decides the game is no longer for him (i love cutty's arc, it rings true to me).  then, at the end of s3, he comes to check up on some of his kids he coaches, and comes face to face with fruit, who acts like a little bitch, knowing he owes his life to cutty's decision.

anyway, here's my question - if avon is giving welcome home packages, why is cutty going to marlo's guy to get it?  wouldn't avon's guy make more sense?  someone has to pay for it, and that someone would certainly be avon.  i know the later stuff is set up with this interaction, but the intro makes no sense.  avon and marlo weren't quite at war yet, but they weren't partners either.  and obviously it ramped up to full scale combat.

no idea if this has been covered in any of the 9 threads on various boards, most of which i've participated in.

Cutty's best role was as Z on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. 

All kidding aside, I liked Cutty's redemptive arc. But he would have been a bad, bad man in the Avon - Marlo War.

[henrygandorf 29189]

and since i now had to start s4...

"hold a charge better?"

"man, fuck a charge, this here's a gun powder activated 27 caliber full auto no kickback nail throwing mayhem, man."

dollars to donuts they used the shot of chris's real life laugh in response to snoop's description.  it's such a perfect scene and start to the season.

[shadow_operative 15932]

currently going through what will really amount to my first rewatch. i've seen most of S1 many times, but only finished S 2-5 on my first go round. I'm only on episode 5, but damn o was missing this show and didn't even realize it. such a great show with great characters and acting. if Bubbs never won any awards for his role then that's a not-at-all-unsurprising shame. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by shadow_operative

[henrygandorf 29189]

season 1 is so good on rewatch.

also nobody has answered my question yet.  same as it ever was.

[demos 3002]

I always assumed fruit was with avon then switched sides later.

[TwiceHorn 31434]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

ok, so i'm on rewatch #12 or whatever, and i have a question, or it's possible i just stumbled upon a confusing discrepancy or inconsistency.  there's also a chance i misunderstood something, so hopefully someone explain it to me.

early in s3, cutty from the cut gets out, and gets a welcome home package from avon, obviously some sort of tradition.  he has instructions on where to get it, then obviously he can either sell it himself (some welcome home cash) or get one of the corner guys to do it for him (less cash, not as much risk).  so he goes to get the package, and i'm pretty sure he gets it from fruit, who's one of marlo's guys.

later, he comes to get the cash, but fruit tells him the stash got hit, and what a bummer but shit happens right?  then when cutty gets in his face, fruit pulls a gun, and cutty walks away.  this sets up the later scene when cutty has a chance to blow fruit's head off, and decides the game is no longer for him (i love cutty's arc, it rings true to me).  then, at the end of s3, he comes to check up on some of his kids he coaches, and comes face to face with fruit, who acts like a little bitch, knowing he owes his life to cutty's decision.

anyway, here's my question - if avon is giving welcome home packages, why is cutty going to marlo's guy to get it?  wouldn't avon's guy make more sense?  someone has to pay for it, and that someone would certainly be avon.  i know the later stuff is set up with this interaction, but the intro makes no sense.  avon and marlo weren't quite at war yet, but they weren't partners either.  and obviously it ramped up to full scale combat.

no idea if this has been covered in any of the 9 threads on various boards, most of which i've participated in.

This is off recall, I might have to re-watch it.

I don't think Cutty got the package from Fruit.  Edit:  Sources say "Shamrock" gave Cutty his package.  Didn't recognize him by name, but he's the "note taker" of criminal fucking conspiracy note.

He did go to Fruit to have it sold, leading to the ripoff, etc.  Why, I'm not sure, maybe ignorance of the operations.

Edited October 15, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[henrygandorf 29189]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This is off recall, I might have to re-watch it.

I don't think Cutty got the package from Fruit.  Edit:  Sources say "Shamrock" gave Cutty his package.  Didn't recognize him by name, but he's the "note taker" of criminal fucking conspiracy note.

He did go to Fruit to have it sold, leading to the ripoff, etc.  Why, I'm not sure, maybe ignorance of the operations.

i guess that's it?  why he wouldn't have just gone with avon's people is the troubling part, but maybe that was simon's way of telling us that the game had passed him by or that it wasn't in him anymore.  seems like he would get the package and go straight to bodie or whomever - he already had the conversation with slim charles and bodie about his brother and sparring with him.

also i'm not sure if we ever see him get the package, so i guess shamrock it is.  unsatisfying answer. 

[henrygandorf 29189]

also, s3 continues to be my favorite season.  no central "theme".  1 is corners.  2 is docks.  4 is schools + politics.  5 is terrible.  3 kinda has everything.

it also has one of my favorite lines which i had forgotten, from avon, about shooting at omar in front of his grandma.

"i mean, you can do some shit and be like what the fuck, but hey never on no sunday."

using profanity effectively is a real skill.

[Gil Bang 25907]

16 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

 

using profanity effectively is a real skill.

Simon is a master of profanity.  A master. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

On 10/15/2020 at 2:37 PM, henrygandorf said:

also, s3 continues to be my favorite season.  no central "theme".  1 is corners.  2 is docks.  4 is schools + politics.  5 is terrible.  3 kinda has everything.

it also has one of my favorite lines which i had forgotten, from avon, about shooting at omar in front of his grandma.

"i mean, you can do some shit and be like what the fuck, but hey never on no sunday."

using profanity effectively is a real skill.

just finished S3. great season. one of my favorite lines from the show that i had forgotten comes from Cool Lester Smooth in S3 when he says to Kima, "That's not trash talk darlin', that's simple fact." 

also, jesus christ i had forgotten about all of the different ways that Prez found to fuck himself (and those around him) up. yikes on bikes. 

[Ignatius 4017]

On 10/15/2020 at 2:34 PM, henrygandorf said:

and since i now had to start s4...

"hold a charge better?"

"man, fuck a charge, this here's a gun powder activated 27 caliber full auto no kickback nail throwing mayhem, man."

dollars to donuts they used the shot of chris's real life laugh in response to snoop's description.  it's such a perfect scene and start to the season.

"Fuck nailin' them boards man, we can kill a couple motherfuckers with this shit right here"

[TommyGufano 6021]

"That's no way to stir a batter"

[BigDHornfan 6545]

"Fuck nailin' them boards man, we can kill a couple motherfuckers with this shit right here"

I work for Hilti and when I saw that, I burst with pride.

[TonyTexas 10504]

On 10/15/2020 at 2:54 PM, Gil Bang said:

Simon is a master of profanity.  A master. 

 

[WhatTheBuck 28771]

1 hour ago, BigDHornfan said:

I work for Hilti and when I saw that, I burst with pride.

You sound like a man of high character. 

[Ignatius 4017]

2 hours ago, BigDHornfan said:

I work for Hilti and when I saw that, I burst with pride.

Hilti kicks ass....

[Guest Lobo]

Only nail gun endorsed by both East and West Baltimore.  That's saying something in a day and age like this one when a tradesman is struggling.  

[threesheets 1672]

On 5/28/2020 at 1:58 AM, WhatTheBuck said:

Maurice Levy was the worst villain on the show. 

I was messing around on Cameo the other day and watched a couple of his videos.  He seems like the sweetest guy on earth.  Which means he's a fucking awesome actor. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

On 5/28/2020 at 9:38 AM, Baboontyme said:

 Lester was my 2nd fave character (Omar) until Season 5. He lost a couple of points. Still top 5. 

Also, why did they rando drop Rawls into a gay bar and then never make anything out of it? I was expecting that to come into play at some point. 

that's what's so funny about it. it's a one second bit with a pretty huge payoff. i loved it. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

i'm halfway through with S5 now. i don't give a shit about any of this newspaper stuff, but the rest of the storylines are still pretty good. S1-4 though are just unreal. It's up there you the best that i've seen from shows like Breaking Bad, Lost, or GoT (S1-4). i'm gonna miss watching this show when i wrap it up here in the next few days. 

[shadow_operative 15932]

newspaper stuff is actually getting more interesting now. this season isn't nearly as good as the others, but it's also much, much better than the matter seasons of shows like GoT and Lost.