Just ordered a machine gun (no regulations of course)

[SDG 3319]

3 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Would it be legal for me to purchase a gun from one of you on this board, pay over PayPal, and have you ship it to my house? 

No, it would be illegal without a FFL background check.

as I stated in my first post on this topic; if anyone believes you can actually do that, please try and post the video.  

Edited June 4, 2019 by SDG

[Archer 474]

7 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

Would it be legal for me to purchase a gun from one of you on this board, pay over PayPal, and have you ship it to my house? 

You can legally ship a long gun to a resident of your state without a FFL. You cannot legally ship a handgun or ship out of state. 

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service

Edited June 4, 2019 by Archer
Add ATF reference

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

8 minutes ago, SDG said:

I think you missed the whole “FFL is required” part of that add....

I missed nothing.  There’s a lot more than an FFL transfer that goes into acquiring that gun.  My point was these weapons are legally purchasable online.  However, you will have to jump through a lot of hoops, get a background check, and go to a dealer before the weapon reaches your hands. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

There's also the whole "anybody any time" part. Or the without much regulation part.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

7 minutes ago, Archer said:

You can legally ship a long gun to a resident of your state without a FFL. You cannot legally ship a handgun or ship out of state. 

 

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-nonlicensee-ship-firearm-through-us-postal-service

SDG says I cannot do this.   What nuance am I missing?

Onboard lives in my state.  Can I purchase a firearm from him of some category (long gun, whatever) by paying over PayPal and have him ship it to my house or not?

[bad_teammate 13195]

Your dumbass leader

Obama is still president?!?

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

1 minute ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

There's also the whole "anybody any time" part. Or the without much regulation part.

It’s fair to say he was slightly misleading or without much candor. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

3 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

SDG says I cannot do this.   What nuance am I missing?

Onboard lives in my state.  Can I purchase a firearm from him of some category (long gun, whatever) by paying over PayPal and have him ship it to my house or not?

Some states allow it it seems. Some don't. 

[Post Oak 20213]

Just ordered an AR 15 off Instacart.  It was easy just had to filter by Assault Rifle.  

Should be here before 8pm

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

7 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s fair to say he was slightly misleading or without much candor. 

I think it's more accurate to say maybe he was slightly ambiguous (and as someone who doesn't know, I'm still unclear on that) and no more misleading when you put the thread title side by side to Obama's quote.

 

Obligatory Rabble Rabble!

[Mojo Hand 4580]

5 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Some states allow it it seems. Some don't. 

If it matters, we live in Virginia, which I don't believe adds additional restrictions. 

For instance, there is a web forum, VAguntrader.com.   Does a local private seller have to do anything more than maybe check my ID for age before selling me a gun and bringing it to my front door? 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

16 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s fair to say he was slightly misleading or without much candor. 

Our gun laws in the United States don’t make much sense. - Opinion, cannot be objectively proven true or false.

Anybody can buy any weapon at any time - Objectively false. There are many people who are legally prohibited from buying weapons at any time.

without much regulation. - Objectively false. This is part of the previous statement. Even assuming he meant many people instead of anybody it is false because of the any weapon part. Many weapons have large amounts of regulation. Most have a decent amount, more or less depending on the state, and few don't have much.

They can buy it over the internet. - Given the subject is still anybody buying any weapon, this is objectively false, but it should be noted that weapons can be bought by qualified individuals over the internet, usually with a fair amount of regulation depending on the weapon and state.

 

They can buy machine guns. - The word they still refers to anybody in normal english, so this is still objectively false. It should also be noted that buying a machine gun involves the most regulation possible for buying a weapon for a private citizen in the United States. Anybody cannot do that any time.

Edited June 4, 2019 by NotActuallyALonghorn

[Pig Bellmont 8719]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

If it matters, we live in Virginia, which I don't believe adds additional restrictions. 

For instance, there is a web forum, VAguntrader.com.   Does a local private seller have to do anything more than maybe check my ID for age before selling me a gun and bringing it to my front door? 

It’s harder to buy a slice of pizza in VA than a gun

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

If it matters, we live in Virginia, which I don't believe adds additional restrictions. 

For instance, there is a web forum, VAguntrader.com.   Does a local private seller have to do anything more than maybe check my ID for age before selling me a gun and bringing it to my front door? 

A private seller cannot sell a gun to someone they know is unqualified to own one. But they aren't legally required to verify. Most or many prefer to verify, either by going through an FFL or by asking to see proof of such qualification such as a concealed weapons permit. But not all do.

[elguapo 4586]

 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

4 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

The ability of the right to micro-analyze every sentence that comes out of Obama's mouth, while completely refusing to even simply look at the bullshit presented to them by their own party, continues to be breathtaking.

 

4 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Our gun laws in the United States don’t make much sense. - Opinion, cannot be objectively proven true or false.

Anybody can buy any weapon at any time - Objectively false. There are many people who are legally prohibited from buying weapons at any time.

without much regulation. - Objectively false. This is part of the previous statement. Even assuming he meant many people instead of anybody it is false because of the any weapon part. Many weapons have large amounts of regulation. Most have a decent amount, more or less depending on the state, and few don't have much.

They can buy it over the internet. - Given the subject is still anybody buying any weapon, this is objectively false, but it should be noted that weapons can be bought by qualified individuals over the internet, usually with a fair amount of regulation depending on the weapon and state.

 

They can buy machine guns. - The word they still refers to anybody in normal english, so this is still objectively false. It should also be noted that buying a machine gun involves the most regulation possible for buying a weapon for a private citizen in the United States. Anybody cannot do that any time.

[Archer 474]

4 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

If it matters, we live in Virginia, which I don't believe adds additional restrictions. 

For instance, there is a web forum, VAguntrader.com.   Does a local private seller have to do anything more than maybe check my ID for age before selling me a gun and bringing it to my front door? 

A private seller in VA could legally ship you a rifle or shotgun in VA. A FFL can not ship to you without a background check. Someone in NC could not legally ship directly to you in VA. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Just now, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

A private seller cannot sell a gun to someone they know is unqualified to own one. But they aren't legally required to verify. Most or many prefer to verify, either by going through an FFL or by asking to see proof of such qualification such as a concealed weapons permit. But not all do.

I appreciate your answers, but the only person who gave me a straight answer is SDG, who said no, seemingly in conflict with the answers of several other people. There is nothing disqualifying me from buying a gun.  I am as clean as a whistle in any imaginably relevant way.

Is there a legal way for me to purchase a firearm through a transaction over the internet and have it brought to my front door, with little or no required verification from the seller as to my qualifications?   If there are circumstances under which this would be possible — for example, the seller has to live in my state, or has to hand deliver the weapon — then the answer is yes.    Or would it be flatly illegal, as SDG says, for me to accomplish this? 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

2 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

A private seller cannot sell a gun to someone they know is unqualified to own one. But they aren't legally required to verify. 

That would seem to make it extraordinarily easy to buy a gun, virtually what Obama is saying.

[Archer 474]

2 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

I appreciate your answers, but the only person who gave me a straight answer is SDG, who said no, seemingly in conflict with the answers of several other people. There is nothing disqualifying me from buying a gun.  I am as clean as a whistle in any imaginably relevant way.

Is there a legal way for me to purchase a firearm through a transaction over the internet and have it brought to my front door, with little or no required verification from the seller as to my qualifications?   If there are circumstances under which this would be possible — for example, the seller has to live in my state, or has to hand deliver the weapon — then the answer is yes.    Or would it be flatly illegal, as SDG says, for me to accomplish this? 

Yes. A private party in your state can mail a rifle or shotgun directly to you based on you telling them it is legal for you to own. 

[Mojo Hand 4580]

2 minutes ago, Archer said:

A private seller in VA could legally ship you a rifle or shotgun in VA. A FFL can not ship to you without a background check. Someone in NC could not legally ship directly to you in VA. 

Thanks for the answer. Could a private seller in my state sell me a handgun or another category of firearm over the internet and personally drop it off at my front door?  That is, is "shipping" the key detail there? 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

4 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

 

Trump spews stupidity every time he opens his mouth or hunts and pecks on a keyboard. I would suspect his darts lower the IQ of the people standing around him. He has been a bigger enemy of the second amendment in the two years he has been in office than Obama was in eight. But that in no way makes what Obama said any more true.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

1 minute ago, Mojo Hand said:

Thanks for the answer. Could a private seller in my state sell me a handgun or another category of firearm over the internet and personally drop it off at my front door?  That is, is "shipping" the key detail there? 

Yes, that is legal.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

It should be noted that many gun owners have been pushing for years for a system that allows prospective gun buyers to sort of precertify that they are qualified to own a weapon and be issued a temporary proof they can present to sellers. If a system such as this was developed and was free you would see very little resistance to universal background check laws among gun owners. As it is you have to go through a dealer to have a background check on a private sale, which requires you traveling to a dealer (can be a big deal in rural areas) and then paying their fee to do the paperwork.

[Jive Turkey 12598]

Remember that post markstanco post where he called out Trump for lying?  Neither do I.

 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

9 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Our gun laws in the United States don’t make much sense. - Opinion, cannot be objectively proven true or false.

Anybody can buy any weapon at any time - Objectively false. There are many people who are legally prohibited from buying weapons at any time.

without much regulation. - Objectively false. This is part of the previous statement. Even assuming he meant many people instead of anybody it is false because of the any weapon part. Many weapons have large amounts of regulation. Most have a decent amount, more or less depending on the state, and few don't have much.

They can buy it over the internet. - Given the subject is still anybody buying any weapon, this is objectively false, but it should be noted that weapons can be bought by qualified individuals over the internet, usually with a fair amount of regulation depending on the weapon and state.

 

They can buy machine guns. - The word they still refers to anybody in normal english, so this is still objectively false. It should also be noted that buying a machine gun involves the most regulation possible for buying a weapon for a private citizen in the United States. Anybody cannot do that any time.

1. Yeah, we can see how effective our gun laws are
2. Your words: "A private seller cannot sell a gun to someone they know is unqualified to own one. But they aren't legally required to verify."
3. There is very little regulation for purchasing a gun in the US. I remember my dad selling collector (but functional) guns at garage sales here in Tx. It can be done. 
4. I bought it over the internet. And Obama didn't say anyone could buy it over the internet. He said it as one of the avenues to purchase a gun. 
5. Again, you just stated you can buy a machine gun legally. Referencing number 2 again, there are opportunities here to buy a machine gun privately. Or buy parts to make a machine gun. 

 

[Archer 474]

2 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

1.  
2. Again, you just stated you can buy a machine gun legally. Referencing number 2 again, there are opportunities here to buy a machine gun privately. Or buy parts to make a machine gun. 

 

You can not legally buy a machine gun from anyone without a lengthy and expensive background check. 

 

You can not legally buy parts to make a machine gun without a lengthy and expensive background check. 

 

Legally is the key word. You can buy anything illegally. 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

1 minute ago, Archer said:

You can not legally buy a machine gun from anyone without a lengthy and expensive background check. 

 

You can not legally buy parts to make a machine gun without a lengthy and expensive background check. 

 

Legally is the key word. You can buy anything illegally. 

But there is opportunity to do so. The only difference is "anybody" vs a specific person. That is the only truth stretching in Obama's statement. The fact there is this much push back on semantics from a former President is very telling. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

Had he said "Qualified individuals can purchase certain guns at any time with varying levels of regulation. They can buy them over the internet. They can buy machine guns" it would have been a true and accurate statement. What he said was entirely different, untrue, and intended to be misleading. If he wants to argue that our laws don't make much sense using factual statements he is free to do so without getting called out for lying.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Well, if there is no route for a particular person to buy a machine gun without the seller being legally required to verify the bona fides of the buyer, Obama's statement seems to me to be clearly wrong in that respect.   That a seller might disregard the regulations doesn't mean that there aren't such regulations. 

But if there are routes for an unqualified person to buy a wide array of other firearms, including over the internet, without much regulation preventing those purchases, the rest of Obama's statement seems fairly true to me.   In my mind, the ability to easily conduct a private in-state purchase with no required verification by the seller of the qualifications of the buyer reasonably fits that definition. 

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

Obama didn't qualify his statement as purchasing "legally". He said the gun laws don't make sense.  They do not make sense because a person is able to buy a machine gun legally then sell in unregulated private market to anyone that person so chooses. 

Thus, anybody can go to a gun show or a private seller and buy any gun they want, at anytime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

Edited June 4, 2019 by SmokeyTheBear

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13585]

10 minutes ago, Archer said:

 

Legally is the key word. You can buy anything illegally. 

 

That's what I suspect some here aren't accounting for. If a politician during the 80s crack epidemic stated to the effect "anyone here can walk down the street and buy a vial of crack", I doubt there would be some controversy over whether he was telling a falsehood.

[EastTexan 662]

55 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

 

Obama is still president?!?

 

No. Trump defeated hrc in '16.

[Archer 474]

18 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

They do not make sense because a person is able to buy a machine gun legally then sell in unregulated private market to anyone that person so chooses. 

They could but they would be committing a Federal felony and when the purchaser of the now unliscensed machine gun is caught they will have a Federal felony as well and both will probably end up in the Federal Bureau of Prisons system. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

Yeah, you can't legally sell or buy a machine gun like that. If you are talking about illegally acquiring weapons, anybody can do that in any country. But he was specifically discussing why he does not think our gun laws make sense.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

25 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

 

That's what I suspect some here aren't accounting for. If a politician during the 80s crack epidemic stated to the effect "anyone here can walk down the street and buy a vial of crack", I doubt there would be some controversy over whether he was telling a falsehood.

"Our drug laws don't make sense. Anyone here can walk down the street and buy a vial of crack."

Sounds like a good argument for decriminalization.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

2 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

Yeah, you can't legally sell or buy a machine gun like that. If you are talking about illegally acquiring weapons, anybody can do that in any country. But he was specifically discussing why he does not think our gun laws make sense.

That is my argument though. You can't do that in any country. Most countries only allow those type of weapons for military. We provide avenues for citizens to acquire them. That allows for much easier access to military grade weaponry to people who want to do wrong with them. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

1 hour ago, Mojo Hand said:

SDG says I cannot do this.   What nuance am I missing?

Onboard lives in my state.  Can I purchase a firearm from him of some category (long gun, whatever) by paying over PayPal and have him ship it to my house or not?

I sure hope not.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4976]

7 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

That is my argument though. You can't do that in any country. Most countries only allow those type of weapons for military. We provide avenues for citizens to acquire them. That allows for much easier access to military grade weaponry to people who want to do wrong with them. 

If you are acquiring them illegally then yes you can do that in any country. You cannot do that without legal repercussions in any civilized country. What exactly do you think stops people from breaking the law in other countries?

[fattyflattie 4639]

This surprises people. He is and was a POS liar. 

[Anastasis 23469]

53 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Obama didn't qualify his statement as purchasing "legally". He said the gun laws don't make sense.  They do not make sense because a person is able to buy a machine gun legally then sell in unregulated private market to anyone that person so chooses. 

Thus, anybody can go to a gun show or a private seller and buy any gun they want, at anytime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

A person who did this would be subject to a punishment of up to 10 years in federal prison, forfeiture of the weapon involved, and fines up to $250k.  

Edited June 4, 2019 by Anastasis

[jimmyjazz 45957]

So gun laws work?  Huh.  That's weird.  The folks wailing about increased gun control tell me gun laws don't work at all.

Damn, it's a conundrum.

LMAO.

[Asithappens 974]

14 hours ago, markstanco said:

 

Delivered to my house! Ordered it on the internet.

 

'Merica!!!!

 

 

 

 

Lol. 

Yeah, I get it. Obama fucked up so that justifies you deep-throating Trump.

There are a lot like you.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

 

10 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

If you are acquiring them illegally then yes you can do that in any country. You cannot do that without legal repercussions in any civilized country. What exactly do you think stops people from breaking the law in other countries?

 Most civilized countries do not allow their populace to have assault rifles or any guns for that matter. So the pool of available arms to get into the wrong hands is much smaller than a place like the US where every other person has a stockpile of guns. A larger availability to access guns illegally. 

11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

A person who did this would be subject to a punishment of up to 10 years in federal prison, forfeiture of the weapon involved, and fines up to $250k.  

If a person is buying a gun to do an illegal act, do you think they care if the purchase of that gun is legal? And the seller could easily say that legally they didn't have to perform a background check because they didn't feel that the buyer was a concern at the time. Thus....loophole. Loopholes typically exist in bad legislation (see: anything tax related). 

[Lagunamadre 1975]

37 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

"Our drug laws don't make sense. Anyone here can walk down the street and buy a vial of crack."

Sounds like a good argument for decriminalization.

I can't take a vial of crack and kill 58 bystanders at a concert. A bit of a difference. 

I'm with you on decriminalizing drugs though. Needs to be more of a mental health issue rather than a criminal issue. 

[Anastasis 23469]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

So gun laws work?  Huh.  That's weird.  The folks wailing about increased gun control tell me gun laws don't work at all.

 Damn, it's a conundrum.

 LMAO.

No law abiding gun owner ever told you that "gun laws don't work at all".  They probably told you that we have a whole lot of gun laws on the books, and that we should do a better job enforcing them.  They probably also told you that gun laws need to balance 2nd amendment protections.  And that they would support additional laws if they represent sensical solutions to specific situations such as banning bump stocks or enhancing the background check system, but oppose laws that are not based on common sense such as laws that target cosmetic aspects of a firearm.

 

At least that is how I recall most of the conversations here playing out. 

[Archer 474]

1 minute ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

 

If a person is buying a gun to do an illegal act, do you think they care if the purchase of that gun is legal? And the seller could easily say that legally they didn't have to perform a background check because they didn't feel that the buyer was a concern at the time. Thus....loophole. Loopholes typically exist in bad legislation (see: anything tax related). 

There is no loophole to sell a machine gun without a background check. It is a felony, period. 

[gsoda3 3262]

2 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

You can sell a gun on a message board fotum such as Swap Meet and ship it directly to the house, legal to do. That is buying a gun online. 

 

i've bought several guns online in private party transactions.  each of them has had to go through a FFL for me to pick up.  even the one in-state.   these were all handguns though.

and to whomever was saying you can ship a shotgun or rifle to the house after purchasing it online, do you have a source for that?  

 

[jimmyjazz 45957]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

No law abiding gun owner ever told you that "gun laws don't work at all".  They probably told you that we have a whole lot of gun laws on the books, and that we should do a better job enforcing them.  They probably also told you that gun laws need to balance 2nd amendment protections.  And that they would support additional laws if they represent sensical solutions to specific situations such as banning bump stocks or enhancing the background check system, but oppose laws that are not based on common sense such as laws that target cosmetic aspects of a firearm.

 

At least that is how I recall most of the conversations here playing out. 

You don't read so goodly.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

15 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Lol. 

Yeah, I get it. Obama fucked up so that justifies you deep-throating Trump.

There are a lot like you.

Eeeeeewww, no need to putting those images in any bodies head...