D-Day - 75th Anniversary

[InkaUtexas 26072]

On 6/8/2021 at 3:35 PM, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Spent D-Day in MN at Fort Snelling paying respect to my grandfather (Staff Sargeant, Army, WWII). My grandmother and their oldest daughter (who died as a teenager 50 years before them) is also there.

Then I met with a cousin and retrieved the final medals from my great uncle (Grampa's younger brother, Lt Jr. Grade, Navy). He received the Air Medal and Distinguished Flying Cross for action in the Pacific. He sank a Japanese fighter off Honshu in July of '45 from his F6F Hellcat. On August 6th of '46-his last day in the service as he was headed home to MN and his bride the next day-he was killed when a young cadet in their trainer made a mistake. This was at Cabaniss Field outside of Corpus Christi. His funeral was the day before his 24th birthday.

Had some polishing to do.

My grandfather served at Snelling about the same time. He lost three brothers in World War 2, all in the Navy. Damn fine generation. 

[BabaYaga 15305]

17 hours ago, Armybrat said:

My Dad didn’t have it so cushy either when we landed on Attu to take it back from the Japanese.  The weather could be atrocious up there, even in summer. He spent 7 months in a tent in the Aleutians in 1943. The japanese fared even worse.

He took these photos…

 

That's fantastic!  

[BabaYaga 15305]

Wife's father.  His father was at Omaha and made it inland past the hedgerow's and survived the war.  He (father) has all of his (g-father's) medals and citations in a shadow box.  One year we tried to surprise him and get his dad's war records but the area housing them near St. Louis burned down decades ago.  

[Johnny Sack 8397]

It's sad how few WWII veterans are left.

I remember in high school we had a big event for WWII veterans on 12/7/91.  It was well attended by local vets.  They did not seem that old to me and 1991 does not seem that long ago.  Almost all those guys are gone.  I just googled and apparently there is just one surviving member of Easy Company, 2nd Battalion 506th, and he's 97.

[Sandman 3411]

4 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

One year we tried to surprise him and get his dad's war records

How does one go about doing this? I'd love to get my grandfather's records so my dad (26 yr USAF vet) could see them.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

6 minutes ago, Sandman said:

How does one go about doing this? I'd love to get my grandfather's records so my dad (26 yr USAF vet) could see them.

vetrecs.archives.gov 

[BabaYaga 15305]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

It's sad how few WWII veterans are left.

I remember in high school we had a big event for WWII veterans on 12/7/91.  It was well attended by local vets.  They did not seem that old to me and 1991 does not seem that long ago.  Almost all those guys are gone.  I just googled and apparently there is just one surviving member of Easy Company, 2nd Battalion 506th, and he's 97.

Hard times make hard men

Hard men make good times

Good times make weak men.....

[McCroskey 1505]

Hard times make hard men
Hard men make good times
Good times make weak men.....

Weak men make hard times.

[YGIFS 19452]

80 years ago this overnight, Supreme Allied Command meets in Britain to settle on 5 June for the invasion of Normandy.  We now know it will be postponed by a day for weather.  But the plan and logistics are settled right about now.  In four weeks time, the largest event in human history begins. Our world will never be the same again.  That the buildup occurs so discreetly is almost as impressive as the beach assault itself.  80 years Ago years of planning are set into motion tonight on a wing and a prayer.  Too many men loSt their lives; but it worked.   

[HouTex 1889]

7 hours ago, YGIFS said:

80 years ago this overnight, Supreme Allied Command meets in Britain to settle on 5 June for the invasion of Normandy.  We now know it will be postponed by a day for weather.  But the plan and logistics are settled right about now.  In four weeks time, the largest event in human history begins. Our world will never be the same again.  That the buildup occurs so discreetly is almost as impressive as the beach assault itself.  80 years Ago years of planning are set into motion tonight on a wing and a prayer.  Too many men loSt their lives; but it worked.   

I suppose one man is too many.  The latest death number (approximately 4,400) actually is shockingly low considering the scale of the invasion.  My avatar eventually came around to support the landing at Normandy but he feared 100,000 men would die that day.  For the latest death number see https://www.history.com/news/d-day-casualties-deaths-allies

 

[SimonBolivar 10958]

8 hours ago, YGIFS said:

 In four weeks time, the largest event in human history begins. 

It's already time for the Union Home Mortgage Gasparilla Bowl?

[YGIFS 19452]

80 years ago, later tonight...Erwin Rommel will make plans to shop for a gift to commemorate his wife's 50th birthday.  He will return to command for the next few weeks at the Fuhrer's request.  What should not be lost to history is Rommel is off the line on D-day for wife's birthday.  Though it is typical sentimentality, Rommel thought it appropriate to mark his wife's 50th birthday with the tradition of anniversary gifts/colors.  He was sweet like that.  

Not that the Allied plan would have not have succeeded but in one of a series of fortunate coincidences, Rommel fails to keep his "eye on the ball" so to speak.  Because to mark 50 years for Lucia.  Rommel on this day begins to shop for something special for his lovely wife.  In honor of her turning 50, he looks for something that marks that number of years.  Something Gold.  The very beach head he failed to protect weeks later enabling the Normandy Invasion to go even better than planned.  Gold.  A continent was retaken in the name of freedom because the only capable German high command member shopped for Gold and didn't plan for Gold.  And the rest as they say, was that.  

[Jkwellborn 6724]

80 years ago, later tonight...Erwin Rommel will make plans to shop for a gift to commemorate his wife's 50th birthday.  He will return to command for the next few weeks at the Fuhrer's request.  What should not be lost to history is Rommel is off the line on D-day for wife's birthday.  Though it is typical sentimentality, Rommel thought it appropriate to mark his wife's 50th birthday with the tradition of anniversary gifts/colors.  He was sweet like that.  
Not that the Allied plan would have not have succeeded but in one of a series of fortunate coincidences, Rommel fails to keep his "eye on the ball" so to speak.  Because to mark 50 years for Lucia.  Rommel on this day begins to shop for something special for his lovely wife.  In honor of her turning 50, he looks for something that marks that number of years.  Something Gold.  The very beach head he failed to protect weeks later enabling the Normandy Invasion to go even better than planned.  Gold.  A continent was retaken in the name of freedom because the only capable German high command member shopped for Gold and didn't plan for Gold.  And the rest as they say, was that.  

So, pussy was undefeated then too?

[InkaUtexas 26072]

On 5/9/2024 at 1:07 AM, YGIFS said:

80 years ago this overnight, Supreme Allied Command meets in Britain to settle on 5 June for the invasion of Normandy.  We now know it will be postponed by a day for weather.  But the plan and logistics are settled right about now.  In four weeks time, the largest event in human history begins. Our world will never be the same again.  That the buildup occurs so discreetly is almost as impressive as the beach assault itself.  80 years Ago years of planning are set into motion tonight on a wing and a prayer.  Too many men loSt their lives; but it worked.   

Was speaking to my Dad about this. He said something interesting. The planning for this started in January of 1942. Sure, there were "plans" drawn up, but this is when they were modified and put into action. The Logistics behind Normandy are amazing.

[BabaYaga 15305]

8 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Was speaking to my Dad about this. He said something interesting. The planning for this started in January of 1942. Sure, there were "plans" drawn up, but this is when they were modified and put into action. The Logistics behind Normandy are amazing.

I know I bring it up all the god damn time, but everyone needs to read Bodyguard of Lies.  The logistics, intelligence games played, and the cloak/dagger shit that went into the invasion is still mind bottling all these years later.  

Before any invasion could be entertained all German spies/sympathizers had to be identified.  Before they could be identified the Enigma codes had to be broken.  To break the codes you had the infamous Blechley Park smart dudes with Turin.  Once codes were broken, communication lines established, you then had to capture and turn each spy.  One by one.  These double-agents fed Germany mountains of false information.  As the grandfather of "fake news", you had an entire garrison (operation Quicksilver) that create a fake army out of thin air for Patton to command.  Blow-up equipment like rubber tanks/planes. trucks, fake supplies, letters home, training schedules, injury reports, promotions, chow schedules, everything.  All this had the Germans convinced they had a strong understand of who would command the landings and where.  

And all that, and it wasn't the largest landing of the war.  Okinawa was.  

[TxEx84 405]

Attending the Paris Olympics and plan to visit Normandy for a couple of days. I've been once back in 1998. My dad (WWII vet) was my guide, but sadly he passed a few years ago.  Any recommendations on tour guides or should I buy a book and do it myself?  I will have a rental car.

[InkaUtexas 26072]

Two books I love. Also, when in Paris check out the Ecole Militar if you have the time and won't miss Women's Beach Volleyball. Not just WW2, but a pretty damn cool place.

Ambrose.

https://www.amazon.com/Day-June-Climactic-Battle-World/dp/068480137X/ref=sr_1_5?crid=FY7MIPI37GCC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.XHmO1uqVjaM1FAZ5Kiawq9le5FAbx-PQLA0vqE1kQhA5o-9VeLgLvmLcdebL5cTXwmHnEIY6UDL0wzRoC-61R_De4qjoCaCHSuoqRK0b6_XvGqWCLS7NebLjNwM_ZOW6PtA4lsCz_FxLk1nAtg26jE9dL26Ultw58h7ueYVw36iARSVwk5l-46szLiR9Yozh02CilodFXETMFU-r9FVCCEm3BN1_ws9-rBtEZyE-MtU.lblOYMsQKUnsfKBr0XTu4yC8CZSRcKoMsSNoFTl752c&dib_tag=se&keywords=Books+on+D+Day&qid=1715625456&sprefix=books+on+d+day%2Caps%2C120&sr=8-5

Beevor

https://www.amazon.com/D-Day-Battle-Normandy-Antony-Beevor/dp/0143118188/ref=sr_1_13?crid=FY7MIPI37GCC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.XHmO1uqVjaM1FAZ5Kiawq9le5FAbx-PQLA0vqE1kQhA5o-9VeLgLvmLcdebL5cTXwmHnEIY6UDL0wzRoC-61R_De4qjoCaCHSuoqRK0b6_XvGqWCLS7NebLjNwM_ZOW6PtA4lsCz_FxLk1nAtg26jE9dL26Ultw58h7ueYVw36iARSVwk5l-46szLiR9Yozh02CilodFXETMFU-r9FVCCEm3BN1_ws9-rBtEZyE-MtU.lblOYMsQKUnsfKBr0XTu4yC8CZSRcKoMsSNoFTl752c&dib_tag=se&keywords=Books+on+D+Day&qid=1715625456&sprefix=books+on+d+day%2Caps%2C120&sr=8-13

 

[YGIFS 19452]

About this current time in the theater, the Allies sink two U-Boats on the North Atlantic as secretive surface activity begins in earnest in anticipation of Overlord.  
 

meanwhile, at nearly the exact same time…the Wermacht evacuation of troops and sailors from Crimea is completed.  
 

80 years later, I gotta listen to fucking morons who don’t understand the Nazis left SW Russia.  They’re not there anymore to wiped out by Putin. Maybe we could do our grandpas a solid learn a thing or two from history. Because all worship and admiration of dictators aside, if you remember one thing about land wars in Europe.   It’s this.  They have a tendency to spread and take a massive amount of time and casualties.  Some Of us will do well to remember that.  
 

The next time a continent needs to be re-taken, it will make Overlord look like a misunderstanding.  

[bigup2dahorns 3343]

Attending the Paris Olympics and plan to visit Normandy for a couple of days. I've been once back in 1998. My dad (WWII vet) was my guide, but sadly he passed a few years ago.  Any recommendations on tour guides or should I buy a book and do it myself?  I will have a rental car.

It’s been a few years but we used Mark Lane who I would highly recommend. I can’t seem to find the contact info for him but perhaps you can track him down. Hopefully he’s still doing the guided tours.

Quick bio:

An american historian, Mark is the former director at the Witte Museum in San Antonio, Texas, which houses one of the largest World War II combat collections outside the holdings of the US military. Mark’s presentations cover the facts and figures with breadth and depth, and he enjoys focusing on the experience of the war from the perspective of a typical allied soldier, which gives the historical information a more personal touch. He relates the specific D-Day events to the broader scope of the war.

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

14 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

And all that, and it wasn't the largest landing of the war.  Okinawa was.

I guess it depends on how you measure it. By the end of the first day, the Allies had about 180,000 men on French soil (156,000 amphibious plus 24,000 Airborne). About 60,000 men landed in Okinawa on day one. 

[atomheartbevo 89778]

For those who watched Masters of the Air, and were curious about the Tuskegee Airmen who ended up in the Stalag with the 8th Air Force guys, they were a part of Operation Dragoon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dragoon) which was a landing in Southern France a few months after D-Day.  It was a somewhat smaller scale, but used the lessons learned from Normandy (they used a lot of special operations folks from the US, England, France, and Canada, as well as the French Resistance). It helped to relieve the pressure on Normandy in terms of getting men and equipment ashore, and it sped up the liberation of Southern France, and inflicted a lot of casualties on the Germans.

[BabaYaga 15305]

17 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Two books I love. Also, when in Paris check out the Ecole Militar if you have the time and won't miss Women's Beach Volleyball. Not just WW2, but a pretty damn cool place.

Ambrose.

https://www.amazon.com/Day-June-Climactic-Battle-World/dp/068480137X/ref=sr_1_5?crid=FY7MIPI37GCC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.XHmO1uqVjaM1FAZ5Kiawq9le5FAbx-PQLA0vqE1kQhA5o-9VeLgLvmLcdebL5cTXwmHnEIY6UDL0wzRoC-61R_De4qjoCaCHSuoqRK0b6_XvGqWCLS7NebLjNwM_ZOW6PtA4lsCz_FxLk1nAtg26jE9dL26Ultw58h7ueYVw36iARSVwk5l-46szLiR9Yozh02CilodFXETMFU-r9FVCCEm3BN1_ws9-rBtEZyE-MtU.lblOYMsQKUnsfKBr0XTu4yC8CZSRcKoMsSNoFTl752c&dib_tag=se&keywords=Books+on+D+Day&qid=1715625456&sprefix=books+on+d+day%2Caps%2C120&sr=8-5

Beevor

https://www.amazon.com/D-Day-Battle-Normandy-Antony-Beevor/dp/0143118188/ref=sr_1_13?crid=FY7MIPI37GCC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.XHmO1uqVjaM1FAZ5Kiawq9le5FAbx-PQLA0vqE1kQhA5o-9VeLgLvmLcdebL5cTXwmHnEIY6UDL0wzRoC-61R_De4qjoCaCHSuoqRK0b6_XvGqWCLS7NebLjNwM_ZOW6PtA4lsCz_FxLk1nAtg26jE9dL26Ultw58h7ueYVw36iARSVwk5l-46szLiR9Yozh02CilodFXETMFU-r9FVCCEm3BN1_ws9-rBtEZyE-MtU.lblOYMsQKUnsfKBr0XTu4yC8CZSRcKoMsSNoFTl752c&dib_tag=se&keywords=Books+on+D+Day&qid=1715625456&sprefix=books+on+d+day%2Caps%2C120&sr=8-13

 

Know them both as they are sitting on the shelves right now.  Beevor's book on Stalingrad.  Makes the Battle of the Bulge seem like a tea party by comparison

[BabaYaga 15305]

7 hours ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

I guess it depends on how you measure it. By the end of the first day, the Allies had about 180,000 men on French soil (156,000 amphibious plus 24,000 Airborne). About 60,000 men landed in Okinawa on day one. 

I've read larger by both metrics - number of ships at sea as well as men.  You also have to remember the Navy at Normandy was largely safe from attack.  Okinawa was not.  They got pounded, especially by Kamikaze's

Okinawa

Quote

In the following weeks, more than 1,600 ships and 350,000 naval personnel would assemble to form the largest amphibious assault force of World War II.  

Quote

The invasion of Okinawa was larger in terms of the number of troops involved and the scale of the operation. The Battle of Okinawa, which took place from April to June 1945, involved a combined force of over 180,000 U.S. troops, as well as troops from the United Kingdom and Canada, against the defending Japanese forces. In comparison, the D-Day invasion, also known as the Normandy landings, involved around 156,000 Allied troops landing on the beaches of Normandy on June 6, 1944.

 

[YGIFS 19452]

My grandfather served in the North Atlantic but moved down to the South Pacific as a Logistics NCO on a Destroyer (his plaque is up at the Nimitz Museum here in the Hill Country /csb).  He literally served against blood relatives in the Kriegsmarine (his father had only come to America just a couple decades before while many others stayed behind in Bavaria and eventually served in various branches of the Wermacht.  Anyway, Grandpa ships off for Okinawa to establish supply lines for the island invasion.  It was gruesome but succeeds and is then charged with supply chain logistics for his carrier group for the taking of the Japanese mainland.  I only exist because that invasion never happened, as he was on the most forward ship and would have most likely have perished from artillery or aerial attack while the Japanese capacity was still well functioning.  Years later, we found out my wife's grandfather, who like most of those men, didn't walk about his service until the very end of his life.  He was taken off Okinawa (7th ID) by naval transports, not the usual exclusively-troop transport ships of the Army.  I'd like to think both of our grandfathers crossed paths on deck that day and took a deep breath for the invasion of Honshu thankfully never came to pass.  They could go home and start families.  

To tie it back to D-Day.  My father (PO3-U.S. Navy, 1961-1965) knew more about WW2 history than any non-scholar I know.  And I asked him about some of his older relatives who were in Kriegsmarine.  And I'm romanticizing the conversation a bit, but I asked why the German Navy didn't really 'show up' for D-Day?  And he said because of Hugo Boss, the fashion designer.  It was decided that congesting the fleet (surface and sub-surface) in a relatively small part of the channel/coastline would prove futile given the air superiority of the Allies and ability of the Kriegsmarine to eventually launch a counter-assault.  So thousands and thousands of sailors took their ships to port and were administered Heer uniforms designed by Hugo Boss, banded up with conscripted Waffen SS troops from occupied countries (also in Hugo-wear), and put along the coastline in fixed defensive positions to not take out boats but troops by 88's and heavy machine guns.  It worked for an hour and then it didn't.  Many, many German sailors fearing drowning, instead died in pools of blood all across Normandy.  And likely, to a man, wondering why they weren't out at sea with at least a fighting chance at repelling the nautical invasion.  One of 100 things that had to go just right for Operation Overlord.  That Day of Days. 

Edited May 14 by YGIFS

[Gatorubet 30290]

On 5/13/2024 at 9:46 AM, BabaYaga said:

I know I bring it up all the god damn time, but everyone needs to read Bodyguard of Lies.  The logistics, intelligence games played, and the cloak/dagger shit that went into the invasion is still mind bottling all these years later.  

Before any invasion could be entertained all German spies/sympathizers had to be identified.  Before they could be identified the Enigma codes had to be broken.  To break the codes you had the infamous Blechley Park smart dudes with Turin.  Once codes were broken, communication lines established, you then had to capture and turn each spy.  One by one.  These double-agents fed Germany mountains of false information.  As the grandfather of "fake news", you had an entire garrison (operation Quicksilver) that create a fake army out of thin air for Patton to command.  Blow-up equipment like rubber tanks/planes. trucks, fake supplies, letters home, training schedules, injury reports, promotions, chow schedules, everything.  All this had the Germans convinced they had a strong understand of who would command the landings and where.  

And all that, and it wasn't the largest landing of the war.  Okinawa was.  

My father was a Sherman tank commander in the 9th Armored Division.   In late August 1944 the 9th took the Queen Mary to England, where they were ultimately stationed across from the Pais-de-Calais as part of Operation Fortitude, the plan to deceive the Germans about our upcoming invasion site. 

They were subsequently sent to Belgium and the sleepy Ardennes so that the new unit could get acclimated.  Oops.  My dad spent December 16-24 holding back the Germans at the small crossroad town of St. Vith - IOW just in time for the start of the Battle of the Bulge.

this photo is an aerial view of the small town showing artillery craters in the snow.

Christmas Eve day the 9th were able to meet up with a thin corridor of 82nd airborne and escape to safety after delaying the Germans for a week, completely upsetting their timetable. According to the German general commanding those troops, it was more harmful to their plans than the much publicized Bastogne event.

As a Christmas present the next day, the allies destroyed the entire town and it’s crossroads by Air.  See below.

 

While it is Belgium, St. Vith was a part of Prussia before World War I, and the people were German speaking. Hitler took back that part of Belgium before World War III, and so all of the townspeople had relatives in the German Wehrmacht.  When I was there in 2019 for the 75th anniversary, there was nothing to indicate the US Army had ever been there. Contrast that with 20 clicks south and Bastogne, that had American flags everywhere, World War II museums and statues of Patton.

One Belgian town was French and welcoming, and the other Belgian town nearby was German and still passively hostile to American visitors for completely destroying their town.

Edited May 14 by Gatorubet

[mininghorn88 2297]

1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

My father was a Sherman tank commander in the 9th Armored Division.   In late August 1944 the 9th took the Queen Mary to England, where they were ultimately stationed across from the Pais-de-Calais as part of Operation Fortitude, the plan to deceive the Germans about our upcoming invasion site. 

They were subsequently sent to Belgium and the sleepy Ardennes so that the new unit could get acclimated.  Oops.  My dad spent December 16-24 holding back the Germans at the small crossroad town of St. Vith - IOW just in time for the start of the Battle of the Bulge.

this photo is an aerial view of the small town showing artillery craters in the snow.

Christmas Eve day the 9th were able to meet up with a thin corridor of 82nd airborne and escape to safety after delaying the Germans for a week, completely upsetting their timetable. According to the German general commanding those troops, it was more harmful to their plans than the much publicized Bastogne event.

As a Christmas present the next day, the allies destroyed the entire town and it’s crossroads by Air.  See below.

 

While it is Belgium, St. Vith was a part of Prussia before World War I, and the people were German speaking. Hitler took back that part of Belgium before World War III, and so all of the townspeople had relatives in the German Wehrmacht.  When I was there in 2019 for the 75th anniversary, there was nothing to indicate the US Army had ever been there. Contrast that with 20 clicks south and Bastogne, that had American flags everywhere, World War II museums and statues of Patton.

One Belgian town was French and welcoming, and the other Belgian town nearby was German and still passively hostile to American visitors for completely destroying their town.

A couple of 9th AD uniforms from my collection. The officer uniform is from a soldier that received a battlefield commission as a 2nd LT and served in the 193rd Field Artillery.  I am not sure what unit the enlisted 9th AD soldier served in.  I do have the names of both soldiers.

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

8 hours ago, YGIFS said:

My grandfather served in the North Atlantic but moved down to the South Pacific as a Logistics NCO on a Destroyer (his plaque is up at the Nimitz Museum here in the Hill Country /csb).  He literally served against blood relatives in the Kriegsmarine (his father had only come to America just a couple decades before while many others stayed behind in Bavaria and eventually served in various branches of the Wermacht.  Anyway, Grandpa ships off for Okinawa to establish supply lines for the island invasion.  It was gruesome but succeeds and is then charged with supply chain logistics for his carrier group for the taking of the Japanese mainland.  I only exist because that invasion never happened, as he was on the most forward ship and would have most likely have perished from artillery or aerial attack while the Japanese capacity was still well functioning.  Years later, we found out my wife's grandfather, who like most of those men, didn't walk about his service until the very end of his life.  He was taken off Okinawa (7th ID) by naval transports, not the usual exclusively-troop transport ships of the Army.  I'd like to think both of our grandfathers crossed paths on deck that day and took a deep breath for the invasion of Honshu thankfully never came to pass.  They could go home and start families.  

To tie it back to D-Day.  My father (PO3-U.S. Navy, 1961-1965) knew more about WW2 history than any non-scholar I know.  And I asked him about some of his older relatives who were in Kriegsmarine.  And I'm romanticizing the conversation a bit, but I asked why the German Navy didn't really 'show up' for D-Day?  And he said because of Hugo Boss, the fashion designer.  It was decided that congesting the fleet (surface and sub-surface) in a relatively small part of the channel/coastline would prove futile given the air superiority of the Allies and ability of the Kriegsmarine to eventually launch a counter-assault.  So thousands and thousands of sailors took their ships to port and were administered Heer uniforms designed by Hugo Boss, banded up with conscripted Waffen SS troops from occupied countries (also in Hugo-wear), and put along the coastline in fixed defensive positions to not take out boats but troops by 88's and heavy machine guns.  It worked for an hour and then it didn't.  Many, many German sailors fearing drowning, instead died in pools of blood all across Normandy.  And likely, to a man, wondering why they weren't out at sea with at least a fighting chance at repelling the nautical invasion.  One of 100 things that had to go just right for Operation Overlord.  That Day of Days. 

My dad’s older brother had a different, albeit less harrowing experience at the end of the war. He signed up with the Navy and was training for what everyone assumed was going to be the invasion of the Japanese mainland. The bombs were dropped, so he and his shipmates were relegated to stateside “duty” in CA (essentially, waiting to go home). One day as they were eagerly awaiting their discharge, an officer showed up to some sort of gathering and asked for a show of hands of anyone who knew how to type. My uncle was one of the few to raise his hand, so he spent most of the next year typing discharge papers. In his own way, he may have crossed paths with some of the your family members. 

Edited May 15 by ImissWallyPryor

[YGIFS 19452]

In just a few minutes, 80 years ago...Kriegsmarine sub U-731 will be destroyed by two Catalinas near Gibraltar.  It was largely a 'training exercise' to discern how amphibious aircraft will fare against sub-surface U-boats on D-Day.  It works spectacularly.  In addition to other raids, the German Navy is collectively convinced to 'hang back' and simply plan for an arterial defense posture of amphibious infantry later on up and down the coast.  Even, as stated above, the Navy is turned to fixed position infantry.  

Sadly though, with the smell of defeat in the air.  80 years ago around this hour, the SS begins a hasty evacuation of nearly 450,000 Jews from Hungary to concentration camps.  In terms of a ratio of rapidity and fatality, it is arguably the deadliest deportation of Jews in the entire Final Solution.  Hungarian officials from elected officials to military leaders to religious men of the cloth all participate.  Within 2 months, mostly at Auschwitz...about 400,000 Jews are dead.  80 years ago today, the most expeditious mass murder in all of the holocaust begins in earnest.  In Hungary.  And they were complicit.  And 80 years later, they claim the Nazis are still among us.  But just not them.   We have a weird habit of repeating our hypocrisy.  But I guess that's why the word exists.  

[Gatorubet 30290]

20 minutes ago, mininghorn88 said:

A couple of 9th AD uniforms from my collection. The officer uniform is from a soldier that received a battlefield commission as a 2nd LT and served in the 193rd Field Artillery.  I am not sure what unit the enlisted 9th AD soldier served in.  I do have the names of both soldiers.

 

My father was in the horse cavalry in the late 1930s, in the Second Cavalry Division.  They took the white soldiers from the division and created the 9th Armored.  Like that gentleman, my father started the war as a staff sergeant.  But due to the unfortunate deaths of several lieutenant platoon leaders, my father‘s leadership ability would kick in, and he would lead the platoon out of whatever problem they were in. After the third or fourth time this happened, they said, screw it, and gave him a battlefield commission to 2nd LT.

[YGIFS 19452]

33 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

My dad’s older brother had a different, albeit less harrowing experience at the end of the war. He signed up with the Navy and was training for what everyone assumed was going to be the invasion of the Japanese mainland. The bombs were dropped, so he and his shipmates were relegated to stateside “duty” in CA (essentially, waiting to go home). One day as they were eagerly awaiting their discharge, an officer showed up to some sort of gathering and asked for a show of hands of anyone who knew how to type. My uncle was one of the few to raise his hand, so he spent most of the next year typing discharge papers. In his own way, he may have crossed paths with some of the your family members. 

If it was the Bay Area, there's a damn good chance he typed up my Grandfather's discharge papers.  He returned to California to his toddler son and wife in the Autumn of 1945.  They would make there way back to Chicago by train where he worked as chicken farmer before resuming the family trucking business and having a new baby boy, my uncle who would, unlike my great-grandfather, grandfather, and father---Sailors All, jump out of helicopters as part of the Black Horse Armored Cavalry in Vietnam for the U.S. Army. 

I think of that scene at the end of "Band of Brothers" where Maj. Winter's voiceover tells us what the men did after the war.  On the whole, they just resumed regular life, boring jobs, and started families.  Just like our elders.  One day they're about to launch a beach assault on Honshu.  The next day they're typing and hatching chickens.  I asked my grandfather once before he died about what he thought about his service and how his ship was in the lead of his group, facing imminent danger, and I showed him a photograph of the plaque we had made for him at the Nimitz Museum of the Pacific Theater.  And he just grinned and rocked in his chair.  And simply said, "It was just a thing we all got up and did.  I did it so your dad wouldn't have to.  And he served so you wouldn't have to."  May our children enjoy a world of peace and inclusion.  Because the next beach assault will be the last one for mankind.  

 

 

[BabaYaga 15305]

12 hours ago, YGIFS said:

And he just grinned and rocked in his chair.  And simply said, "It was just a thing we all got up and did.  I did it so your dad wouldn't have to.  And he served so you wouldn't have to."  May our children enjoy a world of peace and inclusion.  Because the next beach assault will be the last one for mankind.  

“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

[atomheartbevo 89778]

YouTube has a lot of weird/interesting channels. Like an entire group dedicated to WWII music, complete with uniforms and backdrops

 

[Gatorubet 30290]

I do not believe I would associate the word ‘darlings’ with D-Day

it would sort of be like “the 911 Dancers will now entertain us with their original choreography,  ‘Leap of Faith’”

[wild_turkey 3181]

A patient of mine, roughly mid-70s gentleman, said he is going to France for D-Day to accompany a friend who is a WW2 vet. The friend is 103 years old and was there during D-Day, so they are going to tour and there are some memorials and such. He said there is a group of vets that gets to do this every year and their trip is sponsored and entirely paid for by American Airlines. Each vet gets to take one friend or family member to help them with travel needs. They have an entire flight from the U.S. to Paris dedicated to this group of guys, and they stay 9 days and have all transportation, hotels, meals, tours, etc. paid for by AA. I think that's pretty damn cool for everyone involved and kuddos to AA for doing it.

[BabaYaga 15305]

45 minutes ago, wild_turkey said:

A patient of mine, roughly mid-70s gentleman, said he is going to France for D-Day to accompany a friend who is a WW2 vet. The friend is 103 years old and was there during D-Day, so they are going to tour and there are some memorials and such. He said there is a group of vets that gets to do this every year and their trip is sponsored and entirely paid for by American Airlines. Each vet gets to take one friend or family member to help them with travel needs. They have an entire flight from the U.S. to Paris dedicated to this group of guys, and they stay 9 days and have all transportation, hotels, meals, tours, etc. paid for by AA. I think that's pretty damn cool for everyone involved and kuddos to AA for doing it.

Follow a few recent/younger GWOT vets on IG.  Last year or two some of those salty old WWII dogs have done static line, tandem jumps over Normandy with recent vets.  Jumped out of C-47's and everything apparently

[InkaUtexas 26072]

Yep, I know one of the Jumpmasters. Last year they paired a young vet with an D-Day vet. And yeah, AA's support for this is pretty damn cool.

[ocugolf 1214]

I’ve already mentioned my grandfather being on Omaha Beach; however, I was reminded of the following story from my mother.

My grandfather brought back a large nazi flag he cut down from a schoolhouse, 3 cool German soldier knives, and a couple of guns back. 

Apparently, when I was in the 4th grade I brought the flag and knives to show and tell. Mother OCUGolf was not a happy camper when she got the call from the principal. Can’t imagine the trouble I would have gotten in todays climate.

 

RIP Papa. You were the strongest, most brave, kind, and wise man I’ve ever met.

[cabowabo 4513]

Great channel for WW2 stuff.  A lot about D Day / Normandy. 
https://www.youtube.com/@TheHistoryUnderground

Edited May 15 by cabowabo

[YGIFS 19452]

80 years ago, it is the early morning hours of 16 May in England.  Supreme Allied Command has begun sequestering select troops, sailors, and airmen.  This is done to silo different units so as to contain spread of information.  In a few hours time, the select first group of men will begin intensive training on waterproofing weapons, vehicles, and armor for the beach assault.  Most of them have gone to bed never having seen plastic in their rural lives.  24 hours from now, they will know how to water-seal grenades, heavy machine guns, medical equipment, rations, and other equipment.  None of the assault on the 5 beaches can occur if even 20% of the equipment and weaponry gets water-logged and sinks/jams.  

Again, one of 100 things that must go right for Overlord to be successful.  One word for you men this time, "Plastics."  As fate would have it, the originator of what we know now as 'plastic' (albeit in a different form), Leo Baekeland, dies just ~120 days before D-Day.  But his work will allow the Allies to take Ghent, Belgium where Baekeland's family is still based, also in ~120 days time.  

[HouTex 1889]

12 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

80 years ago, it is the early morning hours of 16 May in England.  Supreme Allied Command has begun sequestering select troops, sailors, and airmen.  This is done to silo different units so as to contain spread of information.  In a few hours time, the select first group of men will begin intensive training on waterproofing weapons, vehicles, and armor for the beach assault.  Most of them have gone to bed never having seen plastic in their rural lives.  24 hours from now, they will know how to water-seal grenades, heavy machine guns, medical equipment, rations, and other equipment.  None of the assault on the 5 beaches can occur if even 20% of the equipment and weaponry gets water-logged and sinks/jams.  

Again, one of 100 things that must go right for Overlord to be successful.  One word for you men this time, "Plastics."  As fate would have it, the originator of what we know now as 'plastic' (albeit in a different form), Leo Baekeland, dies just ~120 days before D-Day.  But his work will allow the Allies to take Ghent, Belgium where Baekeland's family is still based, also in ~120 days time.  

“Plastics”.  The best line from The Graduate.  Not to change the subject from a really good post, 

[mininghorn88 2297]

On 5/15/2024 at 10:54 AM, wild_turkey said:

A patient of mine, roughly mid-70s gentleman, said he is going to France for D-Day to accompany a friend who is a WW2 vet. The friend is 103 years old and was there during D-Day, so they are going to tour and there are some memorials and such. He said there is a group of vets that gets to do this every year and their trip is sponsored and entirely paid for by American Airlines. Each vet gets to take one friend or family member to help them with travel needs. They have an entire flight from the U.S. to Paris dedicated to this group of guys, and they stay 9 days and have all transportation, hotels, meals, tours, etc. paid for by AA. I think that's pretty damn cool for everyone involved and kuddos to AA for doing it.

Delta Airlines does it too. Right now they are showing a short 3 minute and an 8 minute clip of WW2 vets going to Normandy on their in-flight entertainment. It is amazing how dusty it can get at 35,000 feet.

Edited May 16 by mininghorn88

[YGIFS 19452]

It is nightfall in Normandy and England.  80 years ago.  Two code issues occur overnight.  the BBC broadcasts a French song that signals they are to begin taking out rail depots.  The Germans interpret the signal correctly, but are unable to manage the scope of the sabotage.  And the first of several sub-surface British Royal Navy vessels will submerge between in the channel close to Normandy.  They will be followed by several surface fleet ships to begin bombardment of coastal positions. 

Tomorrow, a more accurate weather forecast will be discerned by Supreme Allied Command.  Changing the fate of Western Civilization.  

[4th and 5 4915]

On 5/13/2024 at 12:06 PM, TxEx84 said:

Attending the Paris Olympics and plan to visit Normandy for a couple of days. I've been once back in 1998. My dad (WWII vet) was my guide, but sadly he passed a few years ago.  Any recommendations on tour guides or should I buy a book and do it myself?  I will have a rental car.

https://alliedvictorytours.com
 

Mike is FANTASTIC. Highly recommend you hire him for at least one full day if not 1.5 or 2.

The pics you see upthread were all with Mike.

He has 250 reviews on TA, every one is 5 star. I went with him in 2019 when he was just starting his business, he is now the #1 tour guide in the area.

[Parliament 14286]

On 5/14/2024 at 5:01 PM, Gatorubet said:

 ...the other Belgian town nearby was German and still passively hostile to American visitors for completely destroying their town.

Well boo hoo.  Get over it.

[YGIFS 19452]

It is supper time in Southern England.  Officers of the 82nd & 101st Airborne are fed well.  They will be briefed in an hour about the drops over Normandy, which had remained a tightly held secret by general officers and SAC up until this evening.  They knew they were going somewhere, but in a few minutes---they'll know precisely.  Through a series of miscommunications, the Germans will in an hour or so after sunset, begin a shuffling of artillery and troops between Normandy and Contantin.  

The junior officers of the Airborne will go to sleep within 2-3 hours knowing the fate of them and their men.  Meanwhile, the 352 & 716th Heer Divisions will begin laying mines and defensive beach obstructions in earnest...in the dark so as to avoid recon detection.  They will be decimated in a few days time.  But the remaining troops will be aggregated and provide absolute havoc on the same paratroopers at the Battle of the Bulge in a few months time.  

I doubt any allied pilot gets any sleep tonight as they will now be studying the actual course of the designated drop zones.  While several misdrops will plague the allied paratroopers, these brave men will helm the largest aviation transport in human history to that point.  Hundreds of them are finishing their dinner at this exact moment 80 years ago, and will walk out to the airfields with their crew.  They will have a compass, a map, and a stopwatch and despite needing rest will drill the drop point course under nightfall.  Because at this point, they still don't know what time of day they're heading out on 5 or 6 June.   

[77horn 216]

From https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0440240905/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1&asin=0440240905&revisionId=&format=4&depth=1

 

ENTERTAINERS AND NEWSMEN ON DEADLINE can talk all they want to about tension, but they wouldn't know tension if you dipped it in a bucket of water and hit them in the face with it -- unless they had spent five days in a marshaling area, waiting to start the Invasion of Europe.

 

The only comparable sensation would be those last five days in the death house, when everybody is quiet and considerate, and they feed you well, and let you sleep late and write letters, and give you little favors and comforts.  The chaplain comes around to see you, the warden makes a speech, and maybe you write a letter to your mother.

 

If you have a mother, and she still cares.

 

Or you write your girlfriend, who is probably going steady with somebody else by now, as ours were.

 

Finally there isn't anything more to do.  You eat your last meal and put on your clothes and walk down the corridor to the big flash.  You go out of the world the way you came in: surrounded by people and utterly alone.

 

That's the way it was in the marshaling area.

 

[mininghorn88 2297]

As most know the invasion was originally planned for an earlier date but poor weather delayed the invasion.  The below original photos are from my collection.  They were taken on May 25 on board of the USS Ancon which was the flagship for the US invasion on Omaha Beach on D-Day.  Top brass for the US and the British were on board for an inspection pre-invasion.  Some of the dignitaries included Admiral Hall , Admiral Ramsey, Field Marshall Montgomery and King Henry VI.  In addition to these photos I have many more from the crew of the USS Ancon.

Admiral Ramsey and Admiral Hall

[atomheartbevo 89778]

Saw a thing saying the French and the Brits/Americans were going all out for this commemoration, because it maybe the last major commemoration they do outside of the 90th or 100th anniversary, because the youngest vet that they know of who is participating is 99 and several of those attending have told them it will have to be their last.

Damn sobering that they are all pretty much 100 or older.  When I was a kid, the WWI vets were in their 80s and the WWII vets were my grandparents generation.

[atomheartbevo 89778]

Department of Defense is still working to identify MIAs from Normandy,

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/02/us/world-war-two-remains-dna-research-identify/index.html

Quote

Minutes before plunging to their deaths, five airmen successfully dropped 14 paratroopers from the 82nd Airborne near their landing mark over Normandy, France from their C-47. It was just after 2:44 a.m. on June 6, 1944. The airmen completed their mission but lost their lives.

The remains of the pilot and crew chief were recovered days later but the co-pilot, navigator and radio operator were never found – possibly until now.

Quote

Eighty years after the Normandy Invasion known as D-Day, the Defense POW/MIA Accounting Agency, operating under the Department of Defense, is looking for the three missing airmen with the hope of finally bringing them home.

They have found what is believed to be the crash site of the downed C-47, along with the possible remains of the co-pilot, 2nd Lieutenant William Donohue; the radio operator, Staff Sergeant David Madson and the navigator, 2nd Lieutenant Albert Brooks. The remaining three airmen from the 304th Troop Carrier Squadron, 442nd Troop Carrier Group, 50th Troop Carrier Wing were never accounted for but never forgotten.

Faced with German anti-aircraft fire from an altitude of less than 1,200 feet, Donohue, Madson and Brooks, along with their fellow airmen: the crew chief, Major McKinley McCanless; and the pilot, 1st Lieutenant Samuel Williams Jr., did not have enough time to bail out or maneuver a successful crash landing after dropping their paratroopers.

French eyewitnesses say their C-47 “struck the ground and burst into flames,” killing all five men, according to agency records.

Quote

In 2016, the agency received a tip the crash site had been rediscovered on farmland in Normandy. They sent a team in 2019 to evaluate the site and what they found was “part of an air speed indicator and part of a C-47 load adjuster,” Dr. Klinek said, who was part of the initial evaluation on the ground. “We knew based on all the evidence from the French researchers to all the documents we had that this was the plane,” he said.

Dr. Klinek said the agency only pursues crash sites where missing soldiers could be found, so they launched an excavation site on April 12 with the goal of retrieving every possible piece of wreckage or evidence of human remains.

Quote

At the excavation site, a team of 25 people conducted labor-intensive work every day for six weeks straight. Using an excavator and shovels to create dozens of grids, they swept the area for high concentrations of metal, then pressure washed and sifted every square inch of soil capable of containing even the smallest piece of evidence.

“We actually hit the ground running with findings,” Capt. Brian Foxworth, the search team leader, said. From potential life support items such as “parachute buckles, fragments of headsets, and standard issue flashlights that every service member would be issued and carry on their person,” Foxworth explained, to “possible osseous material.”

Quote

Even when excavators are certain about specific items, everything must be sent to an agency lab for proper forensic testing before anything can be verified or concluded. “Everything is possible,” Master Sergeant Raul Castillo, the team’s life support investigator, said. Holding a shining key-shaped metal object on a cloth next to five small items caked with dirt, Castillo said, “We found this on the surface and it’s in a pretty good state, it’s part of a headset … it’s all possible from aircrew members … we won’t know until we get back.”

Castillo’s role is to identify each object being pulled from the ground, some of which may have been life support equipment assigned to the flight crew or paratroopers on the C-47. He was able to confirm each item uncovered so far had been from the 1940s.

Quote

The excavation team wrapped up their work at the dig site at the end of May. All uncovered items are being transferred to an agency laboratory at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska, where they will be cataloged and tested by a team of forensic scientists led by Carrie Brown, lab manager and forensic anthropologist.

“A lot of times with these recoveries from Europe … especially if they have been in the ground for 80 years, you’re getting fragments of bone,” Brown said. She said bones found in Europe are generally well-preserved. “Non-biological items such as watches, boots, ID tags, jewelry, those types of things, would get an analyst,” Brown said, explaining items such as teeth and skeletal material would be separated, inventoried and assigned to analysts as well.

The agency is responsible for doing background research, getting excavation teams out to the field, and conducting lab analysis. The best quality DNA samples are sent to the Armed Forces Medical Examiner System’s DNA identification lab at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware to confirm the identification. Once confirmed, the Army Past Conflict Repatriation Branch connects with family members to collect reference samples to potentially match the DNA.

Quote

Paul Stouffer knows firsthand the impact the agency has on families of fallen soldiers who are searching for answers about their loved ones. He is the nephew of a World War II fighter pilot named Lieutenant William McGowan, who was shot down on D-Day in a P-47 single-engine fighter aircraft. McGowan was only 23 years old when he died, and Stouffer spent his whole life watching his mother and grandparents pursue details about his death, and where his remains could have possibly ended up.

After the war, the American Graves Registration Service located the P-47 crash site but did not find McGowan’s remains at the time. His name was engraved on the Wall of the Missing at the Normandy American cemetery.

Quote

In 2009, Stouffer heard about other missing service members being accounted for and reached out to the agency to offer his DNA samples for analysis. In 2018, the agency excavated his uncle’s crash site and recovered human remains, which were identified the following year as McGowan. Stouffer attended his burial service at the American Cemetery in Normandy in 2022 and gave the eulogy for an uncle he had always dreamed about, but never met.

“It was the phone call that I wish my grandparents had got, or even later, I wish my mom had been alive for that moment as well,” Stouffer said. “One of the things that really stuck with me is knowing that after my mother was gone, that he would not be forgotten.” Stouffer watched during the burial ceremony in Normandy as a rosette was placed on the Wall of the Missing next to McGowan’s name, signifying that he had been found

Quote

World War II still has 72,000 American soldiers who are unaccounted for, according to the agency. It’s conducting operations year-round in 45 countries, working to recover the remains of fallen U.S. soldiers and uphold the promise of the United States Military to “leave no man behind.”

The agency handles each case of a missing person with dignity and respect for those who gave their lives for their country. They work under strict protocols and protective processes to ensure they get every detail correct, leaving no grain of sand unsifted. When missing service members are identified, the agency gives family members the option to have the remains buried with full military honors back home, or to receive the same honors in a burial abroad where they died.

excavation site

[YGIFS 19452]

Met a guy with AGRS (or whatever it's called now).  He explained that it is still so fucking difficult, despite the well established procedures (he mainly worked Korea/Vietnam research).  But that Europe has certainly had its fair share of fallen troops over the centuries.  Of course WW2 was by far the greatest volume of KIA's.  But sometimes the Nazis would strip a dead body of tags and blouse and leave it as a warning to other advancing Allied troops.  Sometimes, they'd panic and toss them in mass graves or burn them for fear of retribution when the rest of the Allied units caught up with them or went looking for a fallen brother.  Obviously some were sent off to POW camps where other complications arose for identification purposes.  Same thing went for Brits and Canadians in terms of difficulty finding bodies/records/tags (and dozens of other nations as well).  The Soviets didn't, and still don't, really give much of a shit.  

The real disturbing thing is the Reich kept meticulous records of the evacuated Jews up until the end, way more effort put into it than records of captured Allies or even downed aircraft.  As some mark of pride.  Every once in awhile, they'll find some documentation of Allied KIA's/POW's, but more often than that they still find written/typed lists of final solution victims up until April 1945, along with conscripted Waffen SS from occupied territories records.  An absolute gut-wrenching job to sift through another trove of papers to find out about U.S. Military personnel and you end up with a file of thousands of deported Hungarian Jews instead.  But these guys that work the sites and the files and the burial areas to bring some solace to the families of our fallen heroes----god bless their work and diligence and dedication.   I don't envy their work, but I envy their loyalty to the Nation.