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Should Trump be impeached and removed?

Lurch

By Lurch
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Should Trump be impeached and removed?  

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  1. 1. Should Trump be impeached and removed?


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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26437

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Then the executive branch can never again be held accountable for interfering in lawful investigations and is forever above the law. I don’t want a king, how about you?

Dammit @Cheeseweasel why did I come to this thread. I’m still glowing about 6, we shouldn’t be arguing politics lol.

Honestly, not arguing. I want Trump out in 2020. I'm afraid that impeachment will only make him stronger.

YNWA, brother!

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29246

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Cheeseweasel said:

For those saying "Impeach", what would he be formally charged with?

Here's just a few examples from what we know right know:

  • 7-8 counts of obstruction of justice
  • numerous counts related to his dangling of pardons to encourage witnesses to not cooperate with Mueller's investigation
  • hundreds of violations of the Constitution's prohibition against foreign emoluments (every foreign dollar spent at his hotel, among many examples)
  • hundred of violations of the Constitution's prohibition against domestic emoluments (e.g. diverting secret service dollars into his golf courses, among many examples)
  • at a minimum dozens, perhaps hundreds of counts of violating the Constitution's duty that he take care that the laws be faithfully executed (e.g. his attempts to interfere with AT&T's acquisition of Time Warner because he hates CNN)

Hell, I just picked that list off the top of my head in less than one minute, and I hardly remember anything that happened more than a week ago at this point.  There's so much more. His administration has been an absolute tsunami of impeachable conduct. Remember when Kushner was looking for a billion dollar bailout from Qatar for his building at 666 Fifth Avenue and they told him to fuck off, then Trump suddenly supported a Saudi/UAE blockade of Qatar where our CENTCOM for the Middle East, Africa, and Central Asia is fucking located (against the advice of literally every adviser but Jared)? Remember how after that Brookfield (whose second largest shareholder is the Qatar Investment Authority) took out a 99-year lease at Kushner's building and prepaid all of its rent to bail him out? I'm pretty certain using American foreign policy resources to strong-arm another country into giving your son in law a billion dollars is impeachable.   

Give us two months of impeachment inquiries with court-enforced compliance with subpoenas and any halfway competent attorney will be able to draft Articles of Impeachment that are 500 pages or longer.

lulz, catching up on the thread I realized I totally forgot about the conspiracy to violate campaign finance laws, and there's still a lot of extremely shady likely-criminal conduct from his campaign and inauguration.  I might have significantly underestimated at 500 pages.

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Posted
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19 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Remarkable how many people are okay with having a King. 

as opposed to a dictator?

 

Sometimes the 'known' is better, regardless of how spectacularly shitty it may be.

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1 minute ago, longhornmatt said:

 

He basically breaks the law as often as he breathes.  It’s just astonishing how much everyone has become desensitized and ignores it.

Maybe it is that he does not stick out among politicians.

 

It seems to be SOP for most of them.

 

Maybe he's the face of corruption?  That's cool.  take him out.

 

Don't stop there.

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1 minute ago, longhornmatt said:

But everyone else who’s not President!!!

"But if we knock off Trump, Washington will be as pristine as a virgin's honey-pot..."

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Just now, longhornmatt said:

By all means, every corrupt person government should be held accountable.

 It’s funny how the people who make the “but someone else!” argument then arrive at the conclusion that we should let all the bad actors - particularly their guy - get away with crimes instead of punishing them all.   Unless, of course, we are talking about punishing someone other than their guy, in which case they all need to be punished.

The point is about whether justice is being served or if it is simply political revenge.

 

If it was truly justice, there'd be a shit-ton more than Trump with their lives in the crosshairs.   But of course, that's not waht this is about at all.

 

celebrate your selective outrage though...LOL.

 

P.S.  I haven't said to let Trump go.  I HAVE said to shit or get off the pot about it.

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1 minute ago, longhornmatt said:

Selective outrage against the President in a thread asking whether the President should be impeached seems appropriate.

And selective outrage is an extraordinarily weak excuse for looking the other way to criminal behavior.  Selective enforcement is a valid point to raise when an HOA is being a bitch about whether the shed in your backyard complies with neighborhood rules even though they let the Joneses build the same thing without a hassle.  Arguing that you shouldn’t be charged with a felony because OJ got away with it, on the other hand, is not so valid.

you're right.

 

Everything else is cool, especially your side...LOlz.

 

carry on.

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4 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Lol at “my side.”  You mean the side of people who aren’t desperately trying to rationalize why their cult leader’s crimes should go unpunished?

I’m not even a Democrat, nor I have I said everyone else is cool.  I explicitly said every corrupt politician should be held accountable.   The fact that you can’t actually say that - because it means holding Trump accountable - well, it’s SAD!

I did say that.  I just disagree that it will ever happen.  Again, this has very little to do with justice.  Some just don't like hearing it that way.

 

Instead it's about politics, both exacting revenge and where capital might be gleaned.  Justice moves forward.  It doesn't count the costs.

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Incredulity

Incredulity 11563

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8 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

VP Race Bannon will take over and ban abortion.  Don’t think most of these dipshits have thought this through.

I am pretty sure the most popular fan fiction includes him getting caught up in the impeachment too.

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13 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

But you seem to be implying that since it won’t ever be that everyone who’s ever done wrong is punished, we therefore shouldn’t impeach Trump.  So, you set up an impossible standard where first the world must cleanse itself of all other wrongdoers, and then, and only then, can we move on to addressing Trump.  

Said it multiple times, but here goes again:

1.  if you have the goods, prosecute the fuck out of Trump.

2. Don't stop there.  That means no parades, no parties, just roll the fuck on with the accountability train.

I am EXTREMELY skeptical of #2 because this whole thing is not rooted in justice/ accountability.  It has always been about exacting political revenge.  Don't get me wrong, IDGAF about Trump, but moral authority high horse riding is freaking denied for the investigation itself.

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immamac

immamac 42519

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Posted

This thread is the reason Trump will be reelected - you guys are so laser focused on impeaching a president so late in their term you can't even see the fucking forest from the trees. What happens if impeachment is successful? We get fucking Pence? He's been squeeky clean through this whole thing, but he's also a massive dickhead. 

Get him and all his fuck sticks out of office - then pursue legal avenues to let him rot in prison after he's removed from office. Why is this so hard for people to think about pragmatically are you all seriously so clouded by your faux rage that you can't think strategically? 

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DDD Dad

DDD Dad 14251

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21 minutes ago, immamac said:

This thread is the reason Trump will be reelected - you guys are so laser focused on impeaching a president so late in their term you can't even see the fucking forest from the trees. What happens if impeachment is successful? We get fucking Pence? He's been squeeky clean through this whole thing, but he's also a massive dickhead. 

Get him and all his fuck sticks out of office - then pursue legal avenues to let him rot in prison after he's removed from office. Why is this so hard for people to think about pragmatically are you all seriously so clouded by your faux rage that you can't think strategically? 

Hard to argue with this from a pragmatic and political standpoint.  As a lawyer (who has had a fair amount of experience handling Constitutional matters), my perspective is very different. 

Based on the evidence already in the public domain, to me there is no doubt that he should be impeached and removed from office.  If the end result is a 10 year term of President Pence, well then that really sucks, but to take the pragmatic route risks deconstruction of the foundations of our republic.

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Js1

Js1 85110

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10 minutes ago, Cheeseweasel said:

Crazy conspiracy theory: Trump wants to be impeached so he can resign, put Pence in place, get a pardon and go home to sell shitty steaks / Russian real estate.

Resign because you can't lose if you don't run and Trump can boast he has a perfect 1.000 batting record as a presidential candidate - a loss in 2020 will hurt his brand even more

Immediate pardon

Trump TV starts in 2021

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GW Hayduke

GW Hayduke 1952

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34 minutes ago, immamac said:

This thread is the reason Trump will be reelected - you guys are so laser focused on impeaching a president so late in their term you can't even see the fucking forest from the trees. What happens if impeachment is successful? We get fucking Pence? He's been squeeky clean through this whole thing, but he's also a massive dickhead. 

Get him and all his fuck sticks out of office - then pursue legal avenues to let him rot in prison after he's removed from office. Why is this so hard for people to think about pragmatically are you all seriously so clouded by your faux rage that you can't think strategically? 

Actually, this comment is a reflection of the reason Trump might get elected.

Trump has committed multiple crimes. We should not allow criminals to hold elected office. The constitution allows us to remove criminals from office through impeachment.  

The situation is not complicated unless you are ok with having a criminal in office.

Yes. This thread is laser focused about impeachment. The thread topic is impeachment.

If Pence becomes POTUS, we won’t have a criminal in office anymore. Plus, Pence is not an electable candidate. He won’t win in 2020. He would likely lose in the gop primary to hopefully a republican that better reflects US morals, Romney, McCain, type of folks. If Trump is removed trough impeachment, the US and the world would be better off

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Cheeseweasel

Cheeseweasel 26437

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16 minutes ago, Js1 said:

Resign because you can't lose if you don't run and Trump can boast he has a perfect 1.000 batting record as a presidential candidate - a loss in 2020 will hurt his brand even more

Immediate pardon

Trump TV starts in 2021

Fox News 2.0. 

Holy shit these seems plausible. 

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, immamac said:

This thread is the reason Trump will be reelected - you guys are so laser focused on impeaching a president so late in their term you can't even see the fucking forest from the trees. What happens if impeachment is successful? We get fucking Pence? He's been squeeky clean through this whole thing, but he's also a massive dickhead. 

Get him and all his fuck sticks out of office - then pursue legal avenues to let him rot in prison after he's removed from office. Why is this so hard for people to think about pragmatically are you all seriously so clouded by your faux rage that you can't think strategically? 

Impeachment, even if unsuccessful because the Senate GOP is committed to letting Trump skate for multiple serious crimes , still remains the best avenue for removing Trump electorally, with potential greater collateral damage to re-election of said Senate GOP if they let him skate.  The caveat is the timing.  Based on the short attention span of people and sustaining that emotional energy, it needs to come to a head after the end of this year, ideally mid to late Spring 2020.  

And, fwiw, Pence isn't squeaky clean.  He headed the transition team.  He was up to his eyeballs in the Flynn fiasco.  He was directly warned by Elijah Cummings all the way back in November 2016 that Flynn was a foreign agent.  Pence knew about Flynn and played dumb.  Pence was also one of the very first to lawyer up in early 2017.  Don't worry about Pence.  If Trump gets impeached and convicted, the truth about Pence's role will find its way to daylight.  

Impeach, but time it for 2020 to maximize the pain Senate GOP pays for aiding and abetting a criminal in the WH.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 12832

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2 hours ago, immamac said:

This thread is the reason Trump will be reelected - you guys are so laser focused on impeaching a president so late in their term you can't even see the fucking forest from the trees. What happens if impeachment is successful? We get fucking Pence? He's been squeeky clean through this whole thing, but he's also a massive dickhead. 

Get him and all his fuck sticks out of office - then pursue legal avenues to let him rot in prison after he's removed from office. Why is this so hard for people to think about pragmatically are you all seriously so clouded by your faux rage that you can't think strategically? 

Somehow upholding the rule of law isn’t pragmatic?

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immamac

immamac 42519

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4 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Impeachment, even if unsuccessful because the Senate GOP is committed to letting Trump skate for multiple serious crimes , still remains the best avenue for removing Trump electorally, with potential greater collateral damage to re-election of said Senate GOP if they let him skate.  The caveat is the timing.  Based on the short attention span of people and sustaining that emotional energy, it needs to come to a head after the end of this year, ideally mid to late Spring 2020.  

And, fwiw, Pence isn't squeaky clean.  He headed the transition team.  He was up to his eyeballs in the Flynn fiasco.  He was directly warned by Elijah Cummings all the way back in November 2016 that Flynn was a foreign agent.  Pence knew about Flynn and played dumb.  Pence was also one of the very first to lawyer up in early 2017.  Don't worry about Pence.  If Trump gets impeached and convicted, the truth about Pence's role will find its way to daylight.  

Impeach, but time it for 2020 to maximize the pain Senate GOP pays for aiding and abetting a criminal in the WH.

I wish I believed that even an unsuccessful impeachment would be disastrous to Trump and goons. I just can't because look at the circumstances around his first election - look at his base - nothing about it makes any sense because you are planning based on rational decision making. I don't think that's sound logically since his base has been proven to be completely irrational in their justification of their decision making. That's what I'm referring to in my post above - it's less about what a rational group of people would do (rational people would have never elected Trump) it's about what happens to the irrational, emotionally charged, group of proven mouth breathing, MAGA hat wearing, mexican hating, china fearing idiots. 

 

I think there are 2 versions of this question:
1) should trump be impeached and removed from office - In a perfect rational world
2) should trump be impeached and removed from office - in the world that is on fire that we actually live in.

The answer to 1 is Absofuckinglutely yes, the answer to 2 is a lot more nuanced and requires more of a perspective on desired outcome vs what is fundamentally "correct"

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GW Hayduke

GW Hayduke 1952

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Posted

I don’t think the 30-35% of the population will ever turn on trump. I don’t think they are the audience for all this or will decide the election. It’s about trump losing the middle, the independents, and the morally straight republicans

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Chooky

Chooky 13302

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2 hours ago, immamac said:

This thread is the reason Trump will be reelected - you guys are so laser focused on impeaching a president so late in their term you can't even see the fucking forest from the trees. What happens if impeachment is successful? We get fucking Pence? He's been squeeky clean through this whole thing, but he's also a massive dickhead. 

Get him and all his fuck sticks out of office - then pursue legal avenues to let him rot in prison after he's removed from office. Why is this so hard for people to think about pragmatically are you all seriously so clouded by your faux rage that you can't think strategically? 

Are you seriously so clouded by your bloated inertia that you can't conceive of the opposing strain of thought with this?

Sometimes you just have to be right, even if that means losing.  Force the GOP Senate to reject their own religion of a small government restrained by checks and balances, even if it means losing.  Force them to abandon Madisonian principles and reveal that they believe in nothing as much as short term and personal power.  Preserve what has been a nice democracy and literally save a Republic, even if it means losing.  Remain loyal to your duty and maintain the rule of law, especially when you have something small to lose:  brief, personal gain.    

Obama once significantly dropped in popularity for joining a handful of congressmen by voting 'No' on going to Iraq.  Seven years later it was his greatest badge of honor in the biggest campaign of his political career.  Riding political momentum was the blemish on his opponents. 

There's nothing "strategic" about allowing a sitting president to go unchecked like some kind of mutated and gnarled monarchy.  The country can't afford to have both isles of Congress acting like dainty little pussies.    

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immamac

immamac 42519

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1 minute ago, Chooky said:

Are you seriously so clouded by your bloated inertia that you can't conceive of the opposing strain of thought with this?

Sometimes you just have to be right, even if that means losing.  Force the GOP Senate to reject their own religion of a small government restrained by checks and balances, even if it means losing.  Force them to abandon Madisonian principles and reveal that they believe in nothing as much as short term and personal power.  Preserve what has been a nice democracy and literally save a Republic, even if it means losing.  Remain loyal to your duty and maintain the rule of law, especially when you have something small to lose:  brief, personal gain.    

Obama once significantly dropped in popularity for joining a handful of congressmen by voting 'No' on going to Iraq.  Seven years later it was his greatest badge of honor in the biggest campaign of his political career.  Riding political momentum was the blemish on his opponents. 

There's nothing "strategic" about allowing a sitting president to go unchecked like some kind of mutated and gnarled monarchy.  The country can't afford to have both isles of Congress acting like dainty little pussies.    

Sure dude - lets revisit after November 2020. I seriously HOPE I'm wrong

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