Yogurt shop murders

[JimmyJames 12,271]

Just some background. Despite recent troubles nowadays APD is a much much much less corrupt organization than it used to be. Acevedo gets credit for cleaning up a lot of problems. Not all of course. Here’s a little background for all the newcomers from the Austin Chronicle. Which by the way was a local rag that Austin was really lucky to have in the 80s and 90s.

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2002-10-25/106933/

[JimmyJames 12,271]

More info on “the family” and background on APD corruption in the 80s and 90s. Probably last post for the night.

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2002-10-25/106932/pols_feature2.html

[TexasEd 8,066]

If I was writing a script for a fictional movie based on this it would have involved a brothel house owned by a local businessman with cops on the payroll.  He has underage girls involved. One of the girls gets to the FBI and the brothel is raided and owner arrested.  Another underage girl who had sex with police was a potential witness and could have brought down some powerful people so that night the cop running protection for the brothel corners her and her friends at the local ice cream shop and kills them with a .22 and stacks them up.  He then calls a flunky cop to come and get rid of the evidence.  The second Cop comes over and sets the fire but when he lights it off one of the girls is not dead and starts crawling out so he has to shoot her again.

By the time the fire department shows up they have to fight it aggressively and most of the evidence is destroyed.

The brothel owner goes down but the dirty cop is not implicated. Some burnouts are framed for it and the real killer is still at large.

Remember this is fiction.

Edited February 20, 2022 by TexasEd

[Hate 20,108]

[CooterBrown 18,006]

[mchookem 16,328]

On 2/18/2022 at 7:28 PM, JimmyJames said:

Just some background. Despite recent troubles nowadays APD is a much much much less corrupt organization than it used to be. Acevedo gets credit for cleaning up a lot of problems. Not all of course. Here’s a little background for all the newcomers from the Austin Chronicle. Which by the way was a local rag that Austin was really lucky to have in the 80s and 90s.

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2002-10-25/106933/

 

On 2/18/2022 at 7:34 PM, JimmyJames said:

More info on “the family” and background on APD corruption in the 80s and 90s. Probably last post for the night.

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2002-10-25/106932/pols_feature2.html

 

13 hours ago, TexasEd said:

If I was writing a script for a fictional movie based on this it would have involved a brothel house owned by a local businessman with cops on the payroll.  He has underage girls involved. One of the girls gets to the FBI and the brothel is raided and owner arrested.  Another underage girl who had sex with police was a potential witness and could have brought down some powerful people so that night the cop running protection for the brothel corners her and her friends at the local ice cream shop and kills them with a .22 and stacks them up.  He then calls a flunky cop to come and get rid of the evidence.  The second Cop comes over and sets the fire but when he lights it off one of the girls is not dead and starts crawling out so he has to shoot her again.

By the time the fire department shows up they have to fight it aggressively and most of the evidence is destroyed.

The brothel owner goes down but the dirty cop is not implicated. Some burnouts are framed for it and the real killer is still at large.

Remember this is fiction.

[Guest Lobo]

I don't know the story very well.  Was there really evidence that one of the girls survived the shooting and attempted to drag herself outta there only to be engulfed in the fire?  This story gets worse and worse the more I learn.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

14 hours ago, TexasEd said:

If I was writing a script for a fictional movie based on this it would have involved a brothel house owned by a local businessman with cops on the payroll.  He has underage girls involved. One of the girls gets to the FBI and the brothel is raided and owner arrested.  Another underage girl who had sex with police was a potential witness and could have brought down some powerful people so that night the cop running protection for the brothel corners her and her friends at the local ice cream shop and kills them with a .22 and stacks them up.  He then calls a flunky cop to come and get rid of the evidence.  The second Cop comes over and sets the fire but when he lights it off one of the girls is not dead and starts crawling out so he has to shoot her again.

By the time the fire department shows up they have to fight it aggressively and most of the evidence is destroyed.

The brothel owner goes down but the dirty cop is not implicated. Some burnouts are framed for it and the real killer is still at large.

Remember this is fiction.

You left out a couple details in your fictional story about the fact that one of the girls who worked there had received death threats by telephone in the month prior and the type of gun that was ultimately used to kill one of them after she had later crawled away after first being shot by a totally different type of gun. Among other missing details. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by JimmyJames

[Harrison Bergeron 1,798]

19 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

You left out a couple details in your fictional story about the fact that one of the girls who worked there had received death threats by telephone in the month prior and the type of gun that was ultimately used to kill one of them after she had later crawled away after first being shot by a totally different type of gun. Among other missing details. 

So assuming the obvious that the two miscreants in the Back Page article would be ideal caricatures for the killers? Man I am going to pretend that's the common conspiracy that comes out of those rags because some things you just do not want to entertain as a possibility. MRaC that is outlandishly insane on myriad levels if remotely possible.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Harrison Bergeron

[JimmyJames 12,271]

Also the cops wouldn’t do the dirty work themselves, they would have hired people they knew from their drug connections to do it for them. Seedy criminal guys in the drug world who were not quite professional killers who wouldn’t be above raping girls before killing them. The kind of guys who no doubt would have DNA somewhere in a criminal databases like Covid. Which of course didn’t even exist at the time of the murders. 
 

The cops themselves would have at least one of them do the cleanup of course to make sure the deed was done and covered up right, only to discover a mistake has been made that absolutely had to be fixed. They probably didn’t expect four of them to be there. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by JimmyJames

[JimmyJames 12,271]

Has anyone ever heard of an AMT backup?

http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/AMT_Backup

[Sgt Hulk 13,716]

On 2/4/2022 at 9:02 AM, HiggyBaby said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/yogurt-shop-murder-case-dna-sample-austin-texas/


Long article basically saying the mystery dna is still a mystery.

Lots of crappy jobs on earth. But reading this and having to do this to a charred young guys body.  Damn 

“It was a way of searching for and extracting male DNA only. Y-STR testing was ordered on vaginal swabs taken from the victims at the time of the murders”

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, that's pretty gut-wrenching to think about some adult male having to do that, he may have been a father himself.  About the only job worse than that is being the dirty cop who arranges their rape, murder, and body burning in the first place.  Probably gives some solace to lab tech to remember that poor working stiff out there somewhere.  I didn't really ever read up on this thing until today, having looked at TexasEd's post.  I didn't realize three of those girls didn't have to die, their last sin being they accepted an invite from a friend to go out for frozen yogurt.  Almost everyone involved with this on the LEO side is retired or dead.  So there's really nothing left to discuss since APD monitors shit like this.  So all's well that ends well.  

Edited February 21, 2022 by Lobo

[JimmyJames 12,271]

15 hours ago, Lobo said:

Almost everyone involved with this on the LEO side is retired or dead. 
 

So there's really nothing left to discuss since APD monitors shit like this.    

Your first sentence may be technically correct as for retirement, but in all likelihood the cops involved, if they in fact were since that’s never been proven of course and maybe never will be, were likely in their 20s at the time, so not dead. Just now in their 50s.

Your second sentence is the problem with this case and has been from day one.
 

The initial investigation was sabotaged from the beginning with inside information leaks to various teenagers and other issues.  The initial detectives were all good cops who tried their best and then eventually got replaced years later, coincidentally right about the same time DNA started becoming a big thing in law enforcement crime solving.
 

Then they supposedly solved it by charging four burnout idiots with it who supposedly “confessed” including one with a gun pointed at his head at one point during the “confession.” He had actually said something during the interrogation they really really didn’t want to hear. 

It is still being monitored, and not just on the net.

 

 

[Guest Lobo]

Who is monitoring it then?

[JimmyJames 12,271]

Just now, Lobo said:

Who is monitoring it then?

Not sure about that and so not gonna spout out specific names based only on speculation and suspicion on the internet about something so serious. 

[atomheartbevo 89,656]

[Gatorubet 30,220]

Jimmy James is really interested in knowing who are suspects. I mean, like too interested.

Does he like yogurt? Just asking questions.

[JimmyJames 12,271]

1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

Jimmy James is really interested in knowing who are suspects. I mean, like too interested.

Does he like yogurt? Just asking questions.

I don’t like yogurt but I would like the yogurt shop murders solved.
 

Don’t you? 
 

Just asking questions. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by JimmyJames

[closetojumping 62,629]

On 2/19/2022 at 9:46 PM, TexasEd said:

If I was writing a script for a fictional movie based on this it would have involved a brothel house owned by a local businessman with cops on the payroll.  He has underage girls involved. One of the girls gets to the FBI and the brothel is raided and owner arrested.  Another underage girl who had sex with police was a potential witness and could have brought down some powerful people so that night the cop running protection for the brothel corners her and her friends at the local ice cream shop and kills them with a .22 and stacks them up.  He then calls a flunky cop to come and get rid of the evidence.  The second Cop comes over and sets the fire but when he lights it off one of the girls is not dead and starts crawling out so he has to shoot her again.

By the time the fire department shows up they have to fight it aggressively and most of the evidence is destroyed.

The brothel owner goes down but the dirty cop is not implicated. Some burnouts are framed for it and the real killer is still at large.

Remember this is fiction.

 

On 2/20/2022 at 12:00 PM, JimmyJames said:

You left out a couple details in your fictional story about the fact that one of the girls who worked there had received death threats by telephone in the month prior and the type of gun that was ultimately used to kill one of them after she had later crawled away after first being shot by a totally different type of gun. Among other missing details. 

So the brothel shitbag is Kallestad. Maybe Everett was the dirty cop who escapes implication. Some of his lackeys rise up the ranks to leadership positions and power to this day, thus driving y'all's concerns on privacy and such? Seems like the cop that phoned in seeing the smoke on a "routine" shift to the FD would obviously be involved. Investigating that guy unwinds the case. Hypothetically.

[TexasEd 8,066]

13 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

 

So the brothel shitbag is Kallestad. Maybe Everett was the dirty cop who escapes implication. Some of his lackeys rise up the ranks to leadership positions and power to this day, thus driving y'all's concerns on privacy and such? Seems like the cop that phoned in seeing the smoke on a "routine" shift to the FD would obviously be involved. Investigating that guy unwinds the case. Hypothetically.

If you say so, my movie script was purely fictional. 

Edited March 9, 2022 by TexasEd

[Gatorubet 30,220]

Has anyone ever heard of an AMT backup?
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/AMT_Backup

I owned one in the 80s. If you threw it at someone and hit them, you could hurt them.

[Bevo 13,576]

16 hours ago, closetojumping said:

 

So the brothel shitbag is Kallestad. Maybe Everett was the dirty cop who escapes implication. Some of his lackeys rise up the ranks to leadership positions and power to this day, thus driving y'all's concerns on privacy and such? Seems like the cop that phoned in seeing the smoke on a "routine" shift to the FD would obviously be involved. Investigating that guy unwinds the case. Hypothetically.

Who is Kallestad?

 

[alincoln 2,371]

3 hours ago, Bevo said:

Who is Kallestad?

 

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2002-10-25/106933/

[GottaB 594]

The cops know who did it. It was the 4 originally arrested.

The lead investigator was focused on someone else and it led to a lack of attention and focus on the evidence that was there.

Two were eventually arrested and convicted. Scott and Springsteen. They confessed and both included statements that involved the other guy. When they used both confessions in each trial it created a situation where the statements couldn’t be cross examined since they refused to testify in person.

The third guy Pierce would have been named if they could have convinced Springsteen and Scott to testify but they refused.

Without enough evidence other than the confessions, they didn’t have enough to convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

[4th and 5 4,914]

Bullshit

[Helobious 9,448]

1 hour ago, GottaB said:

The cops know who did it. It was the 4 originally arrested.

The lead investigator was focused on someone else and it led to a lack of attention and focus on the evidence that was there.

Two were eventually arrested and convicted. Scott and Springsteen. They confessed and both included statements that involved the other guy. When they used both confessions in each trial it created a situation where the statements couldn’t be cross examined since they refused to testify in person.

The third guy Pierce would have been named if they could have convinced Springsteen and Scott to testify but they refused.

Without enough evidence other than the confessions, they didn’t have enough to convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

Those confessions were bullshit. The detective that got them was found to have coerced confessions in 2 other cases as well. 
 

Plus I found it hard to believe 4 burnout teen boys could’ve pulled that crime off. 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2,663]

and the DNA didn't match

[mchookem 16,328]

yeeaah...

 

[CooterBrown 18,006]

GottaB the yogurt shop killer.

It’s txtow all over again.

[Armybrat 40,833]

On 3/9/2022 at 11:32 PM, Gatorubet said:

I owned one in the 80s. If you threw it at someone and hit them, you could hurt them.

Same here. Traded it off ASAP.

[Deej 76,761]

11 hours ago, Helobious said:

Those confessions were bullshit. The detective that got them was found to have coerced confessions in 2 other cases as well. 
 

Plus I found it hard to believe 4 burnout teen boys could’ve pulled that crime off. 

You mean to tell me a confession isn't valid when it is prompted by the cop interviewing you holding his gun up to your head?

[Spaulding Smails 1,552]

One of those four burnouts that were falsely accused worked for me for about 3 years.  Decent guy.  Hard worker.  Just kind of kept to himself.  Clean background check when we hired him.  

I didn't arrive in Austin until my stint on the 40 acres in the late 90s, so I wasn't super familiar with the murders.  I read the book "Who Killed These Girls?" about a year after I hired him.  I'll never forget reading that book, and getting to the spot where they mentioned his name.  It's not a super common name, so my jaw immediately dropped.  I happened to be on a flight at the time with no WiFi.  Couldn't wait to get to the internet to search a picture of him from 25 years ago.  Sure as shit, it was him.  I never brought it up during his tenure with me and neither did he. 

[Chopper 17,230]

1 hour ago, Deej said:

You mean to tell me a confession isn't valid when it is prompted by the cop interviewing you holding his gun up to your head?

You probably recall better but my recollection is the gun to the head was just one part of APD's interrogation process in the case. Sleep deprivation. Ongoing harassment. Lies. Feeding them the words they wanted them to repeat. They ran the forced confession playbook on those dudes. 

[Red Five 40,854]

1 hour ago, Spaulding Smails said:

One of those four burnouts that were falsely accused worked for me for about 3 years.  Decent guy.  Hard worker.  Just kind of kept to himself.  Clean background check when we hired him.  

I didn't arrive in Austin until my stint on the 40 acres in the late 90s, so I wasn't super familiar with the murders.  I read the book "Who Killed These Girls?" about a year after I hired him.  I'll never forget reading that book, and getting to the spot where they mentioned his name.  It's not a super common name, so my jaw immediately dropped.  I happened to be on a flight at the time with no WiFi.  Couldn't wait to get to the internet to search a picture of him from 25 years ago.  Sure as shit, it was him.  I never brought it up during his tenure with me and neither did he. 

Wait, you ran a background check on him and that didn't come up? 

[Ignatius Reilly 48]

maybe the frozen yogurt machine was broken and some buddy got mad. that's probably what happened because of occam's razor

[Ignatius Reilly 48]

the one at mcdonalds is broken often and they get murdered all the time

[Ignatius Reilly 48]

unless it was regular non frozen yogurt, and somebody was mad because what kind of place serves that. it's a pretty good idea though because there is little competition. less now that that one has closed

[Gatorubet 30,220]

maybe the frozen yogurt machine was broken and some buddy got mad.

I am at the moment writing a lengthy indictment against our century. When my brain begins to reel from my literary labors, I make an occasional cheese dip.

[JesusSweatDuck 17,781]

2 hours ago, Red Five said:

Wait, you ran a background check on him and that didn't come up? 

Not convicted, so it shouldn't show up.

[4th and 5 4,914]

Arrests are on your TXDPS criminal history unless expunged.

There is no statue of limitations on murder, and hence no expunction eligibility unless the state agrees to an expunction....and in this case there is literally a 0.0% chance of that.

[Deej 76,761]

4 hours ago, Ignatius Reilly said:

unless it was regular non frozen yogurt, and somebody was mad because what kind of place serves that. it's a pretty good idea though because there is little competition. less now that that one has closed

They said it was fat-free.

 

[Capt. Squints 176]

5 hours ago, Ignatius Reilly said:

the one at mcdonalds is broken often and they get murdered all the time

You should write that one down in your Big Chief tablets.

[Spaulding Smails 1,552]

8 hours ago, Red Five said:

Wait, you ran a background check on him and that didn't come up? 

Correct.  Background checks only show convictions.  Not arrests.  He was arrested and held, but didn't go to trial and wasn't ever convicted.  Otherwise, he had a spotless record.  

[Deej 76,761]

Should have invited him out for lunch.

”I don’t know about you, but I could just kill some frozen yogurt right about now.”

[Dennis Taylor 18,813]

On 3/12/2022 at 9:36 PM, Spaulding Smails said:

Correct.  Background checks only show convictions.  Not arrests.  He was arrested and held, but didn't go to trial and wasn't ever convicted.  Otherwise, he had a spotless record.  

 

[NoRagrets 1,125]

Every time this gets bumped, I get my hopes up that you gumshoes have cracked the case. I’m always disappointed.

[Deej 76,761]

5 hours ago, NoRagrets said:

Every time this gets bumped, I get my hopes up that you gumshoes have cracked the case. I’m always disappointed.

Well, we know it's likely someone registered to this site.

[Lil Sweet 4]

14 minutes ago, Deej said:

Well, we know it's likely someone registered to this site.

 

[RomaVicta 29,906]

On 2/18/2022 at 7:28 PM, JimmyJames said:

Just some background. Despite recent troubles nowadays APD is a much much much less corrupt organization than it used to be. Acevedo gets credit for cleaning up a lot of problems. Not all of course. Here’s a little background for all the newcomers from the Austin Chronicle. Which by the way was a local rag that Austin was really lucky to have in the 80s and 90s.

https://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2002-10-25/106933/

For local and state elections, I pretty much belong to the Austin Chronicle Party. I print up their recommendations and vote every one of their choices. They could have been choosing Nazis the last few cycles and I would have blindly voted for them because of the AC's reputation over the decades.