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Austin Homeless Free for All Ordinance

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phdhorn

phdhorn 6224

Posted
Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Why blow a chance to spend more money? Shits going to have fountains. 

Make 'em the Endless Chocolate Fountain like Golden Corral.  I once saw a homeless dude go in and put his hand under one to get the chocolate, then when the manager came over/wanted to have him leave, he took a swing at the manager.  Stupid manager!

What was I fucking doing there?  Don't ask.  I was young and it was our first and only time.

Edited by phdhorn
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TKthunder2
TKthunder2

Do what San Antonio did.  Spend a couple million on a facility in Far East Austin that is equipped to receive the homeless and parter with local charities, church, community colleges and hospitals to

crash_davis
crash_davis

https://www.kxan.com/news/local/austin/austins-homeless-residents-fear-whats-next-once-camping-ban-takes-effect/ Abigail Wilson is among those who just found out about the Prop B ban. She said sh

Red Five
Red Five

I realize hindsight is 20/20, but perhaps building a gigantic homeless shelter in the middle of downtown Austin wasn't the greatest idea ever. 

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 26017

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

So what do we do with Austin's homeless population during the time it takes to pass laws and build facilities?

Enroll them at Blinn. Some will stay, most won't make it, but gets them out of Austin for at least a semester. 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26510

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This thread cracks me up. You think it's realistic to relocate 4000 Homeless people and everything it takes to rehabilitate/support that population in a formal program to Garfield so you won't have to see them, but you think the cost of the building they bought n town for 100 people was too high. lol.

 

 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26510

Posted
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38 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Adler says 2200 but 4K. Ok. 

100 beds for $10 million or $100,000 a bed. 

$400,000,000 for 4,000 beds assuming you get no new arrivals at the bus station. Please explain how it’s cheaper. 

Uh...

For the rest of you, the above flight of fancy regarding a homeless/social services megaplex is a great example of the completely absurd conjectural lengths people in Austin will go to indulge the fantasy of sending the problem somewhere else. Contrast that with San Antonio, where they give a shit. 

 

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11364

Posted
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1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Messaging. 

No one should be allowed to live on the streets. You are forcing them to get help and services. Those that refuse have no interest or ability to contribute to society so their choice is taken away. Help, jail or leave. 

jail is not the answer, unless an actual crime has been committed. hell, even then, it's probably not the answer for a significant portion of the homeless population.

we should not try to use county jails as a stick for unfortunate circumstances. it's the same for jailing non-violent drug offenders. 

jail/prison should rarely be the answer, and only a last resort.

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Trey3216

Trey3216 15350

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5 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Also, there is a manufactured home dealer right on 71/bill price road. Near the airport, jail and HWY. How many single wides you get for 5 million?  Bulk deal?  Buy used fema trailers? Convert used shipping containers?  

Texas has a shit ton of land. 

WWII era airplane style hangers can be converted to large shelters rather easily and cheaply.  You can even build out the interior with private rooms and hallways, dorm style.  Would be much cheaper than spending that on a building close to a CBD.  

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

Posted
Posted

If only, District 8 had a giant building being shopped around right now by ACC through a well-known city-approved broker.  If only it was near several routes, near a half-dozen clinics.  If only Council could get a friendly strike-price on that with their partner-in-crime ACC.  That thing with a proper CapEx could hold...what?  Probably 400-500 beds?  And there's enough land to put up trailers or portable buildings in front of it from which to deploy more assets like mental health and addiction services.  

And oh yeah, here's another fun fact for you Council cock-garglers...if only Austin had a tremendous asset in terms of Social Workers.  People that worked in the mental health, family services, and addiction counseling.  If only we had a world class, top ranked university/graduate program that excelled in this space.  And the City could engage, in a very widespread manner, this particular institution to care for this population that we're discussing here.  Now they've worked together in very small, one-off clinics, project by project, case by case.  But what if these two mammoth groups were to work together to actually accomplish what the City Council thinks it's doing right now but failing miserably at?  If only, there was a place nearby with hundreds of highly trained specialists waiting to help the world?  If only...

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18940

Posted
Posted
15 minutes ago, Lobo said:

If only, District 8 had a giant building being shopped around right now by ACC through a well-known city-approved broker.  If only it was near several routes, near a half-dozen clinics.  If only Council could get a friendly strike-price on that with their partner-in-crime ACC.  That thing with a proper CapEx could hold...what?  Probably 400-500 beds?  And there's enough land to put up trailers or portable buildings in front of it from which to deploy more assets like mental health and addiction services.  

And oh yeah, here's another fun fact for you Council cock-garglers...if only Austin had a tremendous asset in terms of Social Workers.  People that worked in the mental health, family services, and addiction counseling.  If only we had a world class, top ranked university/graduate program that excelled in this space.  And the City could engage, in a very widespread manner, this particular institution to care for this population that we're discussing here.  Now they've worked together in very small, one-off clinics, project by project, case by case.  But what if these two mammoth groups were to work together to actually accomplish what the City Council thinks it's doing right now but failing miserably at?  If only, there was a place nearby with hundreds of highly trained specialists waiting to help the world?  If only...

You didn't provide any facts.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted

ACC is shopping the Pinnacle tower.  UT School of Social Work has been trying to engage City of Austin for two years on a broader program for homeless services.  Council keeps fucking it up.  I've worked on both, though in a limited scope.  Remind me what the point of providing you with exhaustive research is?  You seem about as integral to this issue as a meter maid.  

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18940

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Lobo said:

ACC is shopping the Pinnacle tower.  UT School of Social Work has been trying to engage City of Austin for two years on a broader program for homeless services.  Council keeps fucking it up.  I've worked on both, though in a limited scope.  Remind me what the point of providing you with exhaustive research is?  You seem about as integral to this issue as a meter maid.  

How many social workers does the city have? How many free clinics does the city have? How many addiction specialists does the city have? How many beds does the city have? How many mental health care professionals does the city have?

In other words, how many resources does Austin really have to help homeless people living within the city?

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3274

Posted
Posted
ACC is shopping the Pinnacle tower.  UT School of Social Work has been trying to engage City of Austin for two years on a broader program for homeless services.  Council keeps fucking it up.  I've worked on both, though in a limited scope.  Remind me what the point of providing you with exhaustive research is?  You seem about as integral to this issue as a meter maid.  
But Bozo assured us that people working across teams and agendas in Austin was getting it done and that we didn't need increased cooperation in the form of one overarching authoritative group.
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gsoda3

gsoda3 3274

Posted
Posted
How many social workers does the city have? How many free clinics does the city have? How many addiction specialists does the city have? How many beds does the city have? How many mental health care professionals does the city have?
In other words, how many resources does Austin really have to help homeless people living within the city?
All you do is cynically ask questions trying to poke holes in suggestions. What would you do?
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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26510

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

i haven't kept up with this thread for the past few weeks and have only read the last page, but is it your contention that's not a realistic solution because it's unbuilt?  if so i can see your point in how it will take a while before the effect takes place and we need a better solution for the now, but we also shouldn't dismiss it simply b/c it will take time and money to make it a reality.  

 

as for your other question of what it looks like, that was addressed by several other posters, including myself, weeks ago.  

No, it really wasn't, other than nonsensicalities. But feel free to walk me through this superagency imposed forced rehabilitation or jail option again. 

7 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

jail for those who need to get sober.  build out programs for mental health transients is the most important and hardest task.  how do you compel participation?  where do you get the workers?  where do you house them?  it's an effort that needs to be addressed as a priority by different agencies working together.  would probably need to be funded on a state or national level.  we really do need something more than we have now but not quite the institution-level horror from the 18th - early 20th centuries.

Yep, never mind the fact that jail has been repeatedly shown to not break addiction,  but let's put that aside; except for how you would get people in your program, who would work there and where you could put it, you've got it all figured out! Let's create a new superagency with the plenary powers of their component agencies across the national, state, county, regional, local, non profit, private and educational spectrum (seems easy), and get them to figure out the details, starting with JAILING THE HOMELESS IF THE WONT GET HOMED.

1 hour ago, Lobo said:

ACC is shopping the Pinnacle tower.  UT School of Social Work has been trying to engage City of Austin for two years on a broader program for homeless services.  Council keeps fucking it up.  I've worked on both, though in a limited scope.  Remind me what the point of providing you with exhaustive research is?  You seem about as integral to this issue as a meter maid.  

Yeah, I've heard about that and it's not a terrible idea. Like I keep saying and everyone keeps ignoring: IT'S A LAND USE PROBLEM.  The politics of putting something like that at Pinnacle are very intense. 

26 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

But Bozo assured us that people working across teams and agendas in Austin was getting it done and that we didn't need increased cooperation in the form of one overarching authoritative group.

Coordination could always be better, but there's not a coordination problem that even approaches the impact of the land use issues involved in providing services that have better outcomes. That and basic indifference. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26510

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Posted

Also - did you fellas know that 3 years ago Austin effectively eliminated Veteran homelessness? Are you disappointed that they didn't send any of the homeless veterans to jail as part of that effort? A lot of them were sleeping in tents (camping!) and some were even on drugs. Sorry to inform you that this involved no forced labor, workhouses, forced removal to Garfield or  prison time. Or the construction of giant camps where homeless can be concentrated or new superagencies. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted
59 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Free healthcare, decriminalize drugs, universal basic income.

And those are all solutions that fall under the purvey of the AUSTIN City Council?    So we could go with some of the solutions mentioned on this thread that could be achieved in a few years or we could take your three ideas which would require a constitutional convention ?  

 I got to say folks, This is just a straight shooter with upper management written all over them

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David Dennison

David Dennison 18940

Posted
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Lobo said:

And those are all solutions that fall under the purvey of the AUSTIN City Council?    So we could go with some of the solutions mentioned on this thread that could be achieved in a few years or we could take your three ideas which would require a constitutional convention ?  

 I got to say folks, This is just a straight shooter with upper management written all over them

None of those things would require a constitutional convention. They can all be handled by passing federal legislation. I would start there on a national level.

As for the Austin city council, the best thing they can do is change land use ordinances to make it easier to build low-income housing in more places in the city.

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demos

demos 3004

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Posted
Also - did you fellas know that 3 years ago Austin effectively eliminated Veteran homelessness? Are you disappointed that they didn't send any of the homeless veterans to jail as part of that effort? A lot of them were sleeping in tents (camping!) and some were even on drugs.

In all seriousness, are there some things about that program we could apply more generally to the overall homelessness issue? Honestly not that familiar with the program.

 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted
1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

None of those things would require a constitutional convention. They can all be handled by passing federal legislation. I would start there on a national level.

As for the Austin city council, the best thing they can do is change land use ordinances to make it easier to build low-income housing in more places in the city.

Fair enough, I thought we were both being somewhat hyperbolic for effect.  

To the point of building low income housing and also on land use.  But that seems to be lost on Council right now.  Last I checked-concerting existing structures to low income is cheaper to the renter than new ground up.  There’s some product beer rundberg that is perfect for this but there’s no glory in it.  Bullshit side, would love To discuss this stuff more in depth; maybe offline. 

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Little Steven

Little Steven 57

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Posted
4 hours ago, David Dennison said:

How many social workers does the city have? How many free clinics does the city have? How many addiction specialists does the city have? How many beds does the city have? How many mental health care professionals does the city have?

In other words, how many resources does Austin really have to help homeless people living within the city?

Bout tree fiddy

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Deej

Deej 76858

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Posted

So only Kathy Tovo shows up for the public forum. Adler and the rest of the council didn't make it. 

Quote

Noticeably absent from the meeting was Mayor Steve Adler.

The Downtown Austin Alliance said all city council members and the mayor were alerted to the forum, however, Council member Kathy Tovo was the only one who made it. 

“They even noted that this is something that our elected officials have done. Well, please mayor, and all, please show up. If you're proud to say this is something we need to do as a city, then represent your ideas,” said Cleo Petricek, who works with the Safe Austin Project.  

http://www.fox7austin.com/news/local-news/police-chief-says-changes-to-city-s-camping-ordinance-could-affect-searches

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3274

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Posted
On 7/23/2019 at 10:59 AM, hayden_horn said:

jail is not the answer, unless an actual crime has been committed. hell, even then, it's probably not the answer for a significant portion of the homeless population.

we should not try to use county jails as a stick for unfortunate circumstances. it's the same for jailing non-violent drug offenders.

jail/prison should rarely be the answer, and only a last resort.

i agree.  i don't think anyone is suggesting shipping off the homeless to jails and prisons is the long-term answer.  it's a necessity to someone who breaks the law, and we shouldn't decriminalize certain behaviors in the name of abating homelessness.

 

what needs to be done is finding a way to compel mandatory treatment for mental illness and psychotic behavior.  there are going to be different levels.  some are outpatient treatments, some are inpatient.  

On 7/23/2019 at 4:37 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, it really wasn't, other than nonsensicalities. But feel free to walk me through this superagency imposed forced rehabilitation or jail option again. 

Yep, never mind the fact that jail has been repeatedly shown to not break addiction,  but let's put that aside; except for how you would get people in your program, who would work there and where you could put it, you've got it all figured out! Let's create a new superagency with the plenary powers of their component agencies across the national, state, county, regional, local, non profit, private and educational spectrum (seems easy), and get them to figure out the details, starting with JAILING THE HOMELESS IF THE WONT GET HOMED.

Yeah, I've heard about that and it's not a terrible idea. Like I keep saying and everyone keeps ignoring: IT'S A LAND USE PROBLEM.  The politics of putting something like that at Pinnacle are very intense. 

Coordination could always be better, but there's not a coordination problem that even approaches the impact of the land use issues involved in providing services that have better outcomes. That and basic indifference. 

land usage is certainly something that needs to be addressed but it's not the biggest piece of the puzzle.  what happens after that's resolved?  a large majority of people on the streets need to be treated for mental illness and addiction.  it can't be an option.  we have to build the infrastructure to support it, both physical and legal to compel attendance.  

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Posted (edited)

Did the mayor really suggest Austinites should House the homeless in their own homes?  

 Well whether or not Captain dip shit realizes it or not ,  he just tacitly admitted they are not addressing the mental illness and addiction issues that are truly at the root of our homeless problem    

 

 Because last time I checked I have a roof running water and food to offer ,  but I’m pretty fucking sure I don’t have a masters degree in social work.     Make up your mind.... is this a housing issue or are there deeper causes at play ?  Go fuck yourselves you fucking children 

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26510

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, gsoda3 said:

land usage is certainly something that needs to be addressed but it's not the biggest piece of the puzzle.  what happens after that's resolved?  a large majority of people on the streets need to be treated for mental illness and addiction.  it can't be an option.  we have to build the infrastructure to support it, both physical and legal to compel attendance.  

It's the first piece, because otherwise there is not enough locations where shelter or treatment (or even imprisonment) is possible. And your point about mental illness is well taken, but homelessness is just the endpoint of that problem. We have a lot of permanently homeless people (like my late mother) who are permanently homeless because of untreated or inappropriately treated mental illness (like my mother), which in many cases is also the cause of the drug addiction (like my mother). But that's the result of our lack of mental healthcare in this country, which is the result of our most-shitty-in-the-world healthcare system.  And that causes a whole range of pain and suffering and financial strain and anguish far beyond the scope of the question of people camping on the street instead of a hobo jungle in the woods because we won't arrest them as much for it.

Austin can deal with the land use issue by ourselves and that opens up a whole range of possibilities, including a lot more places like Community First! Village. Mental healthcare is just a way bigger question, but you also can't address it in Austin without dealing with the land use problems. And by the way that's true for non-homeless people as well. 

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gsoda3

gsoda3 3274

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

It's the first piece, because otherwise there is not enough locations where shelter or treatment (or even imprisonment) is possible. And your point about mental illness is well taken, but homelessness is just the endpoint of that problem. We have a lot of permanently homeless people (like my late mother) who are permanently homeless because of untreated or inappropriately treated mental illness (like my mother), which in many cases is also the cause of the drug addiction (like my mother). But that's the result of our lack of mental healthcare in this country, which is the result of our most-shitty-in-the-world healthcare system.  And that causes a whole range of pain and suffering and financial strain and anguish far beyond the scope of the question of people camping on the street instead of a hobo jungle in the woods because we won't arrest them as much for it.

Austin can deal with the land use issue by ourselves and that opens up a whole range of possibilities, including a lot more places like Community First! Village. Mental healthcare is just a way bigger question, but you also can't address it in Austin without dealing with the land use problems. And by the way that's true for non-homeless people as well. 

agreed with everything there.  though i think the people of austin DO have the capability to make headway against the problem of mental illness and addiction.  cruiser a page or two back did a really good job breaking down the assets we have in town (i think you might have responded to that post).  what we lack is the coordination to put those pieces together.

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