Austin Homeless Free for All Ordinance

[Guest Lobo]

Holy shit, 6 years in...Adler is gonna finally reveal....THE.  BIG.  PLAN.  

In two weeks. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26,271]

8 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Holy shit, 6 years in...Adler is gonna finally reveal....THE.  BIG.  PLAN.  

In two weeks. 

It’s the most disappointing thing about him- he failed to act on a mandate after he beat Morrison. He thought he could build a consensus where no common ground existed and lacks the will to alienate Central Austin neighborhood association types because he can’t get the job he really wants without them.

I've said here before, but it bears repeating: I honestly believe Adler would rather be on the losing end of a 7-4 vote than the winning side of 6-5. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Bozo_Casanova

[Cajun 11,675]

1 hour ago, wd40 said:

too much wiggle room.  I fully trust the city to fuck this up.

Wiggle room?  Sheeeeiiiiit.  Even if it passes there's a wide gulf between "create a criminal offense" and enforcing it.  That's the game.

We've watched entired city blocks of this country burned down by rioters and Mulligans have been passed around like a 4 man scramble at a muni golf course.

Passage of that language will mean next to nothing if the citizens of ATX leave the same people in charge of the machinery.  And you know they will.

Edited April 5, 2021 by Cajun

[dcar00 14,028]

4 hours ago, rage-a-holic said:

Prepare for another homeless plan circus of idiocy:

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/local/homeless/new-strategy-to-combat-austins-homelessness-expected-to-be-unveiled-next-week-mayor-adler-says/287-90f2e044-9bd4-41b7-9fa3-02eb7cfae5d6

 

yeah, pretty much fuck that douche and his summit. "No, really, this time we have a solution, bipartisan community input from thought leaders and stakeholders"  bullshit. you failed so fuck you.

 here's a recommendation Alder.  start with making it very difficult to be homeless and go from there.

[dcar00 14,028]

2 hours ago, wood said:

"create a criminal offense and penalty for anyone camping in any public area not designated by the Parks and Recreation Department"

except under overpasses(unwritten).  I fully expect that they will avoid cleaning out the underpasses 183 north, 290, etc.  and just tell the police not to worry about it.  but yeah keep it clean near Alison Alter's house/neighborhood in central austin.

every one of these city council idiots are worthless.

[dcar00 14,028]

2 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

It’s the most disappointing thing about him- he failed to act on a mandate after he beat Morrison. He thought he could build a consensus where no common ground existed and lacks the will to alienate Central Austin neighborhood association types because he can’t get the job he really wants without them.

I've said here before, but it bears repeating: I honestly believe Adler would rather be on the losing end of a 7-4 vote than the winning side of 6-5. 

I have to admit it is amazing that a person with the IQ of a rock can become mayor.  

[wood 11,121]

3 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, I mean, I’m pretty sure he was talking about the fact that we have a housing shortage in Austin, and the shortest inventory on record, not homelessness. 

 As a result, houses in-town are averaging 30-50 offers and selling for an average of nearly $50k over asking price. 

Austin has doubled in size every 15-20 years for the last century and a half. What’s happening now is on trend. Our land use regs, which were created in 1984, effectively prohibit meeting the scale of demand. So, we now have a housing shortage. 
 

Boring, bland 2 story on a small standard lot went up for sale the other day in my hood. Asking price was $575K (which blows my mind all by itself). Sold 2 days later for $750K. Unfuckingreal. /csb

Edited April 5, 2021 by wood

[B00M 6,280]

8 hours ago, wood said:

Boring, bland 2 story on a small standard lot went up for sale the other day in my hood. Asking price was $575K (which blows my mind all by itself). Sold 2 days later for $750K. Unfuckingreal. /csb

It's cool man. This is happening all over western civilization, but if we let our city council rewrite our land codes, they'll fix it for sure!

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by B00M
Check out the comments too

[Bozo_Casanova 26,271]

14 minutes ago, B00M said:

It's cool man. This is happening all over western civilization, but if we let our city council rewrite our land codes, they'll fix it for sure!

 

Three big factors:

1) rising income inequality

2) unprecedented long term cheap money

3) local development codes that obstruct demand matching and encourage housing shortages.

City governments can address exactly one of those things.

[Guest Lobo]

I'm not saying I want to criminalize homelessness.  

But what about Arson?  Can we criminalize arson?  

So Adler's proposal is expected to be revealed on 12 April with 30, 60, 90 day, and 12 and 24 month goal benchmarks.  I don't know...something about that plan seems like it should have brought to the voter's attention 3-4 years ago.  Kinda convenient this comes precisely one week before early voting on Prop B starts.  Hmmmmm, most curious Captain.  

I can't think of a single competent human being that governed me from the White House to City Hall from January 2019-January 2021.  It's only with the benefit of hindsight that you can look back on a period in your life and realize, "Oh yeah, that was the definitely the darkest time."  Maybe Travis County Commissioner Gerald Daugherty or my State Senator, Kirk Watson.  Those two guys were sharp and only minor grifters, so of course-they're out of politics now.  And I know a couple of half-assed decent federal judges in my district.  But other than that, it's just one shitshow of a human being after another.  I don't understand it.  This used to be a great city in a great state in a great country.  I even live in a half-ass decent part of town.  Easter hangover, ugh.

[ChickenSandwich 9,798]

33 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Three big factors:

1) rising income inequality

2) unprecedented long term cheap money

3) local development codes that obstruct demand matching and encourage housing shortages.

City governments can address exactly one of those things.

Half of the mortgage is property taxes, they certainly can do something about that. 
 

Austin is right on track to mirror many other large urban cities. Taxes so high the only ones left are the top 1% and bottom 1%. Middle and working class leave for the burbs and no longer vote in those elections. What’s left just accelerates the decline by their chosen leaders. 
 

You almost need an act of city government to build an affordable home in the city limits and those “acts” are going to be used for the homeless/bottom 1%, not middle class families. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by ChickenSandwich

[B00M 6,280]

43 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

You almost need an act of city government to build an affordable home in the city limits and those “acts” are going to be used for the homeless/bottom 1%, not middle class families. 

The subsidized housing almost always requires an act of city government because they get built in lots that were zoned for industrial or single family homes. It takes months to get in front of our prestigious council. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26,271]

1 hour ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Half of the mortgage is property taxes, they certainly can do something about that. *
 

You almost need an act of city government to build an affordable home in the city limits and those “acts” are going to be used for the homeless/bottom 1%, not middle class families. **

* Very little, actually. As I'm sure you are aware the city tax rate isn't the majority or even the biggest chunk of your property tax bill. Even so, your property value is what drives your tax burden, and that's driven upwards by our built-in housing shortage. Obviously we all want our investments to appreciate, but not so much that we get priced out of our own homes. And even if our taxes were frozen, that would only make things worse, because then nobody can afford to change houses in the same area, and it wouldn't address your kids or any first time home buyer.  So again, the only thing the city can do is allow more housing. .

** No "almost" about it. I can't make this more clear: our land development code, which dates from 1984, limits the expansion of housing supply by design. The displacement and loss of affordability is not a surprise, it was identified as an emerging crisis in the early 2000's, and was shouted from the rooftops during the comprehensive planning process in 2012, which is why rewriting the code was identified as "priority program #1" of that plan. As of today, more time has passed since passing Imagine Austin than passed between Kennedy's "we go to the moon" speech at Rice and Neal Armstrong's "one small step". 

In other words, we can put a man on the moon faster than Austin can rewrite the LDC. 

54 minutes ago, B00M said:

The subsidized housing almost always requires an act of city government because they get built in lots that were zoned for industrial or single family homes. It takes months to get in front of our prestigious council. 

Why that is, in two handy views:
1) No multi-family is allowed in 89.5% of the residential land area in Austin:

 

2) SF1-3, which require 5700-10K SF lots dominate the urban core (not exactly an efficient use of space), and of those, only Sf-3 allows duplex or ADU. 

 

[Kyle 207]

2 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Austin is right on track to mirror many other large urban cities. Taxes so high the only ones left are the top 1% and bottom 1%. Middle and working class leave for the burbs and no longer vote in those elections. What’s left just accelerates the decline by their chosen leaders. 

So much this across the U.S. Most large cities have no discernible middle class. Basically the rich who can hide behind their gates and the poors ... the middle class workers and visitors get to deal with the homeless fun.

[wood 11,121]

5 hours ago, B00M said:

It's cool man. This is happening all over western civilization, but if we let our city council rewrite our land codes, they'll fix it for sure!

 

What's the rest of the U.S.'s problem? The value of my house in SW Austin has tripled since 2000.

Edited April 5, 2021 by wood

[ChickenSandwich 9,798]

1 hour ago, Kyle said:

So much this across the U.S. Most large cities have no discernible middle class. Basically the rich who can hide behind their gates and the poors ... the middle class workers and visitors get to deal with the homeless fun.

Vote with their feet. 

[wood 11,121]

4 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Austin is right on track to mirror many other large urban cities. Taxes so high the only ones left are the top 1% and bottom 1%. Middle and working class leave for the burbs and no longer vote in those elections. What’s left just accelerates the decline by their chosen leaders. 

Yeah that'll be us, soon. Our house is paid off, but it's a bitter pill to write a $10K check in January (not that much by Surly standards, granted) just for the privilege of living in the house I already own.

The Homeless Camping issue is just gonna hasten that exit if it's not sorted pretty soon. We have no idea yet where we'll go, but we won't be able to stay here, sadly.

Edited April 5, 2021 by wood

[4th&Five 41,457]

16 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, I mean, I’m pretty sure he was talking about the fact that we have a housing shortage in Austin, and the shortest inventory on record, not homelessness. 

 As a result, houses in-town are averaging 30-50 offers and selling for an average of nearly $50k over asking price. 

Austin has doubled in size every 15-20 years for the last century and a half. What’s happening now is on trend. Our land use regs, which were created in 1984, effectively prohibit meeting the scale of demand. So, we now have a housing shortage. 
 

$50k over is very conservative.  Most are 20 to 30% over asking.

[wood 11,121]

20 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

$50k over is very conservative.  Most are 20 to 30% over asking.

Yeah that house I mentioned above went for just over 30% more than the asking price ($750k vs $575k ask).

[Armybrat 40,710]

3 hours ago, wood said:

What's the rest of the U.S.'s problem? The value of my house in SW Austin has tripled since 2000.

My son’s house a couple blocks south of St. Elmo school has more than quadrupled since 2003.

[lmao 178]

Had a (I'm assuming) homeless man in SD the other day while I was jogging wake up from his stupor, call me a faggot a bunch of times, and said he would gut me.

Edited April 5, 2021 by lmao

[Armybrat 40,710]

1 minute ago, lmao said:

Had a (I'm assuming) homeless man in SD the other day while I was jogging wake up from his stupor, call me a faggot a bunch of times, and said he would gut me.

Did username come into play?

[gmr548 16,481]

Why that is, in two handy views:
1) No multi-family is allowed in 89.5% of the residential land area in Austin:

 
2) SF1-3, which require 5700-10K SF lots dominate the urban core (not exactly an efficient use of space), and of those, only Sf-3 allows duplex or ADU. 

 

This drives home the point that a single family home within a 5-10 miles of downtown should be expensive because it’s a ridiculous use of space. The market is correcting despite heavy handed subsidy of this kind of land use since WWII. It can’t be fixed because it isn’t how cities develop organically.

Unfortunately, many of the working and middle class that were sold a certain bill of goods are paying the price.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,271]

4 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

This drives home the point that a single family home within a 5-10 miles of downtown should be expensive because it’s a ridiculous use of space. The market is correcting despite heavy handed subsidy of this kind of land use since WWII. It can’t be fixed because it isn’t how cities develop organically.

Unfortunately, many of the working and middle class that were sold a certain bill of goods are paying the price.

This is a VERY good point. And by artificially restricting the housing marketing and rigging it against the creation of more housing types in the urban core we make the problem worse because the market can't respond to rising demand for substitutional goods. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Bozo_Casanova

[wood 11,121]

10 minutes ago, lmao said:

Had a (I'm assumig) homeless man in SD the other day while I was jogging wake up from his stupor, call me a faggot a bunch of times, and said he would gut me. Good times!

I'm sure he's really a good guy though.

[bschoolprof 6,232]

Let's get this thread back on track.  Surly is not really a place to solve the world's problems. It's mainly for football and fail videos and the sugar lifestyle.   And flexing on people with horrible, wrong headed takes.

Right now, we don't need fancy figures - we should instead gloat over who was wrong and right about this dumbshit ordinance.  99% of us called this idiotic from the day it was proposed, and predicted it would lead to a free for all in terms vagrancy, unsightliness, property destruction, etc (see the thread title).  We were told by the resident homeless expert we were pearl clutchers who listened to Todd and Don, and that repealing the camping ban would do nothing.  Wrong.  

I don't think the city can do a ton to truly "fix" the homeless issue, but they can sure as hell not enact policies that make things worse.  This made things worse.  Much, much worse.  

[wd40 1,976]

21 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, I mean, I’m pretty sure he was talking about the fact that we have a housing shortage in Austin, and the shortest inventory on record, not homelessness. 

 As a result, houses in-town are averaging 30-50 offers and selling for an average of nearly $50k over asking price. 

Austin has doubled in size every 15-20 years for the last century and a half. What’s happening now is on trend. Our land use regs, which were created in 1984, effectively prohibit meeting the scale of demand. So, we now have a housing shortage. 
 

I'm not here to tell you the model isn't fucked up.  just not in the way you think it is.

oh well.  back to the unsolvable homeless problem.

 

[Guest Lobo]

Actual concerned progressive policy wonks who've done the research:  "Mr. Mayor...an updated copy of the comprehensive homelessness solutions we bring to you once a year, for the least six years.  We have worked with Lobo to find the money in a responsible fashion.  We will be forming strategic partnerships with the State of Texas, the U.S. Federal Government, the V.A., a number of local non-profits, Seton & Saint David's, and the UT School of Social Work.  We will be confronting mental illness, addiction issues, drug abuse, job retraining, temporary assistance, along with long-term resources, crime prevention, robust tracking, regular reporting, transparent budgets, and best practices from around the country to result in outcomes-based short and long term care for the most vulnerable among them."

Mayor Adler, "I just want to say one word to your group's initiative.  Just one word, are you listening?"  

"Yes sir."

Mayor Adler, "Hotels."  

"Exactly, how do you mean?"

Mayor Adler, "There's a great future in hotels.  Think about it.  Will you think about it?  Enough said, that's a deal."  

 

 

[Bozo_Casanova 26,271]

1 hour ago, bschoolprof said:

Let's get this thread back on track.  Surly is not really a place to solve the world's problems. It's mainly for football and fail videos and the sugar lifestyle.   And flexing on people with horrible, wrong headed takes.

Right now, we don't need fancy figures - we should instead gloat over who was wrong and right about this dumbshit ordinance.  99% of us called this idiotic from the day it was proposed, and predicted it would lead to a free for all in terms vagrancy, unsightliness, property destruction, etc (see the thread title).  We were told by the resident homeless expert we were pearl clutchers who listened to Todd and Don, and that repealing the camping ban would do nothing.  Wrong.  

I don't think the city can do a ton to truly "fix" the homeless issue, but they can sure as hell not enact policies that make things worse.  This made things worse.  Much, much worse.  

Well, it's certainly gone worse than I expected and it's a shame the council hasn't taken meaningful policy action to make it better. That being said, for the record, you're still a pearl clutcher and Todd and Don are hysterical drama queens. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Bozo_Casanova

[CDAK 216]

18 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Three big factors:

1) rising income inequality

2) unprecedented long term cheap money

3) local development codes that obstruct demand matching and encourage housing shortages.

City governments can address exactly one of those things.

Are there any major metros that you know of where only the first 2 apply? In other words, is (3) not a problem in some cities? I realize you may not know the answer to that question. 

I'm no zoning guru but it seems like home prices are spiking in every major metro, with maybe the exception of NYC and San Francisco. So, (3) must either be common across cities across the country or it must be a small factor compared to (1) and (2).

[Bozo_Casanova 26,271]

6 hours ago, CDAK said:

Are there any major metros that you know of where only the first 2 apply? In other words, is (3) not a problem in some cities? I realize you may not know the answer to that question. 

I'm no zoning guru but it seems like home prices are spiking in every major metro, with maybe the exception of NYC and San Francisco. So, (3) must either be common across cities across the country or it must be a small factor compared to (1) and (2).

What is called “exclusionary zoning” is so common as to be nearly universal. A notable exception is Houston, but deed restrictions are so aggressively enforced there that the effect is similar, but to a lesser degree. That being said, Austin is by far the most hostile city to adding housing in the core of the city compared to peer cities in Texas and our future looks very much like the San Jose/Cupertino are. 
But to be clear #1&2 are a very big deal.

Also- just to be clear- housing price rates impact homelessness, but really the temporary variety, not the permanent kind we’ve been discussing here. Obviously those things are somewhat interrelated, but there are a bunch of steps between not being able to rent an apartment close to work and lighting the Buford Tower on fire. 

[TKthunder2 4,980]

8 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

but there are a bunch of steps between not being able to rent an apartment close to work and lighting the Buford Tower on fire. 

This was my reaction.

[atomheartbevo 89,396]

On 4/4/2021 at 10:06 PM, dcar00 said:

except under overpasses(unwritten).  I fully expect that they will avoid cleaning out the underpasses 183 north, 290, etc.  and just tell the police not to worry about it.  but yeah keep it clean near Alison Alter's house/neighborhood in central austin.

every one of these city council idiots are worthless.

I live in Alter's neighborhood (see her out walking a few nights a week normally when I'm out jogging or biking with the kids).

They are not keeping the homeless out from under the bridges along Shoal Creek in her neighborhood. The Randall's on 38th Street and Shoal Creek - that bridge always has some underneath there, and they trash the hell out of that area, and the only thing that cleans them out is heavy rain flooding that area.

And there are a shitload of school kids that pass under that bridge to and from school everyday. 

And there were/are homeless living in the little pavilion at Ramsey Park, and they can be there for weeks at a time.

So she's failing at keeping them out of her neighborhood.

[dcar00 14,028]

11 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I live in Alter's neighborhood (see her out walking a few nights a week normally when I'm out jogging or biking with the kids).

They are not keeping the homeless out from under the bridges along Shoal Creek in her neighborhood. The Randall's on 38th Street and Shoal Creek - that bridge always has some underneath there, and they trash the hell out of that area, and the only thing that cleans them out is heavy rain flooding that area.

And there are a shitload of school kids that pass under that bridge to and from school everyday. 

And there were/are homeless living in the little pavilion at Ramsey Park, and they can be there for weeks at a time.

So she's failing at keeping them out of her neighborhood.

well at least they get cleared out every once in a while.  meanwhile 2 years of straight camping on 183.  we will see what happens if it gets reinstated.  my guess is that neighborhood gets cleared out pretty good but highway areas get nothin'.  they don't have the will and all they have to do is wink wink to police chief to selectively enforce.

[Hornius Emeritus 12,408]

A big part of the issue:
 

I wonder what this graph will show for 2020:

Edited April 7, 2021 by Hornius Emeritus

[Hornius Emeritus 12,408]

On 4/4/2021 at 12:22 PM, washparkhorn said:

 

Did Elon say where we'd get the water?  Because at this rate all it's going to take is a dry spell like the one we saw in 2011 ....

 

[Armybrat 40,710]

8 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Did Elon say where we'd get the water?  Because at this rate all it's going to take is a dry spell like the one we saw in 2011 ....

 

No worries, he’ll bore a water tunnel all the way up to Lake Michigan.

[dcar00 14,028]

9 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Did Elon say where we'd get the water?  Because at this rate all it's going to take is a dry spell like the one we saw in 2011 ....

 

 

[Cajun 11,675]

10 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Did Elon say where we'd get the water?  Because at this rate all it's going to take is a dry spell like the one we saw in 2011 ....

 

No, he Tweeted.  That's all it takes man.  Elon's magic Tweets fix everything brah.

Relax.

[Cajun 11,675]

On 4/5/2021 at 3:32 PM, wood said:

I'm sure he's really a good guy though.

He was just experiencing thoughts of murder and homophobia.

Nothing to see, move along...

[Bozo_Casanova 26,271]

1 hour ago, dcar00 said:

 

Well played

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

On 4/3/2021 at 7:39 PM, wood said:

More fires. Just heard there's another one near Buford Tower. Cooking fire.

Pro tip for you real estate moguls: harness the awesome power of the fire-starting propensities of the homeless for any insurance infernos you may need for your white elephant vacant properties, if such exist in today's Austin. I've seen this in action in Houston; whole neighborhoods have been flipped with a couple of convenient fires in nuisance properties.  

[phdhorn 6,224]

1 hour ago, Cajun said:

He was just experiencing thoughts of murder and homophobia.

Nothing to see, move along...

Also, his supermassive ego routinely condenses and he gets a lot of water out of that.

[rage-a-holic 4,305]

nothing to worry about anymore, the HEAL initiative is here to fix everything

 

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/local/homeless/austin-heal-initiative-blueprint/269-87e567c1-db50-403b-b186-6875eb752cb2

 

[dcar00 14,028]

4 minutes ago, rage-a-holic said:

nothing to worry about anymore, the HEAL initiative is here to fix everything

 

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/local/homeless/austin-heal-initiative-blueprint/269-87e567c1-db50-403b-b186-6875eb752cb2

 

yeah I'm gonna go with LOSE initiative (Load Of Shit Effectively)

Grey said the perception that there are people not wanting to come off the streets has never really been tested. She said it may be more likely that people don't want to go into a congregate shelter or they haven't been offered housing that meets their needs.

"Uh yeah I was really looking for a 4/2.5 in SoCo, you know, need a home office with WFH and may have kids soon.  that extra half bath is nice for entertaining as well"

these people are morons.

[Kyle 207]

9 minutes ago, rage-a-holic said:

nothing to worry about anymore, the HEAL initiative is here to fix everything

 

https://www.kvue.com/article/news/local/homeless/austin-heal-initiative-blueprint/269-87e567c1-db50-403b-b186-6875eb752cb2

 

“What we’re seeing now is our community coming together to put the resources behind the proven housing and outreach strategies identified in Austin and across the country,” Grey said. “HEAL is, by design, an iterative and collaborative initiative that will not only have an immediate impact on the lives of people living in unstable and inhumane conditions but will also build the entire system's capacity to make homelessness rare, brief and non-recurring.”

Translation: When we homeless advocates got together at the Four Seasons last year we had wine at Eddie V's and came up with some gobbledygook to spend tax dollars and to continue to justify our big administrative costs.

[CooterBrown 17,901]

Grey said nearly $12 million in federal funds for COVID-19 will help house nearly 400 people through rapid rehousing.

So, only $30,000 per bum.  Keep on grifting hobo advocates.

 

[Deej 76,524]

14 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

yeah I'm gonna go with LOSE initiative (Load Of Shit Effectively)

Grey said the perception that there are people not wanting to come off the streets has never really been tested. She said it may be more likely that people don't want to go into a congregate shelter or they haven't been offered housing that meets their needs.

"Uh yeah I was really looking for a 4/2.5 in SoCo, you know, need a home office with WFH and may have kids soon.  that extra half bath is nice for entertaining as well"

these people are morons.

Beggars can't be choosers, unless they are homeless in Austin. 

[Steel Shank 9,409]

This is very exciting!

[Deej 76,524]

13 minutes ago, CooterBrown said:

Grey said nearly $12 million in federal funds for COVID-19 will help house nearly 400 people through rapid rehousing.

So, only $30,000 per bum.  Keep on grifting hobo advocates.

 

So $12 million for COVID not being used for COVID?