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Devin Duvernay "good hands"

Katfid54

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Katfid54

Katfid54 8591

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35 minutes ago, Fud said:

I think he can play either, but I'm not sure if he's at the top of the pecking order

I'd guess we're looking at something like this:

X/Z: Wilson, Omeire, Johnston, Hester/Fouonji (not sure which is ahead between those two). He hasn't talked about visiting, but maybe Rome Odunze if he does.
H: Cooper, Achane, Dixon

Probably two X/Z, and one H. Honestly, we could probably get by with just two or even one receiver in this class if we needed to use the numbers elsewhere, so who knows who all ends up being a take in the end?  

 

27 minutes ago, Fud said:

Achane might be the fastest prospect in the country, at least in regards to long speed; maybe some guys are faster in the 40, but he qualifies  

Loic Fouonji is really fast as well, per his 200m times

Mookie ran a 4.49, which is fast 

Hester has solid speed with a great shuttle, and Johnston has put up great high jumps, although I'm not sure what his 40/track times are; I don't think either are slow

Omeire and Wilson aren't fast, but Wilson has about five inches on Omeire 

Assuming you can also find another H (much more difficult to find than a Z receiver) in this class, why not take Achane as a Z?

Duvernay was always thought of as a slot, but has similar sort of long speed to Achane and he was good at Z receiver last year (with the potential to have been great had the combination of overthrows and bad hands played out differently).  Herman's offense doesn't need a big bodied wide receiver at Z.  It just needs a burner who mandates a defense devote a help defender to prevent big scoring plays.  Ideally that burner has great body control and hands (unfortunately, Duvernay is average to below average at both).

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Bodacious Bevo

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1 minute ago, Katfid54 said:

 

Assuming you can also find another H (much more difficult to find than a Z receiver) in this class, why not take Achane as a Z?

Duvernay was always thought of as a slot, but has similar sort of long speed to Achane and he was good at Z receiver last year (with the potential to have been great had the combination of overthrows and bad hands played out differently).  Herman's offense doesn't need a big bodied wide receiver at Z.  It just needs a burner who mandates a defense devote a help defender to prevent big scoring plays.  Ideally that burner has great body control and hands (unfortunately, Duvernay is average to below average at both).

Duvernay bad hands? Didn't he finish the year with 0 drops? I do agree on the overthrow part. Sam owes him like 300 yards and 3 TDs. 

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Fico

Fico 1743

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Duvernay was always thought of as a slot, but has similar sort of long speed to Achane and he was good at Z receiver (with the potential to have been great had the combination of overthrows and bad hands played out differently).  Herman's offense doesn't need a big bodied wide receiver at Z.  It just needs a burner who mandates a defense devote a help defender to prevent big scoring plays.  Ideally that burner has great body control and hands (unfortunately, Duvernay is average to below average at both).

 

Hmm, I think Duvernay has some of the better hands on the team.  Maybe your confusing him with another WR on the team, you know being that most of football team looks so similar in your eyes...

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SydneyCarton

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13 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

 

Assuming you can also find another H (much more difficult to find than a Z receiver) in this class, why not take Achane as a Z?

Duvernay was always thought of as a slot, but has similar sort of long speed to Achane and he was good at Z receiver last year (with the potential to have been great had the combination of overthrows and bad hands played out differently).  Herman's offense doesn't need a big bodied wide receiver at Z.  It just needs a burner who mandates a defense devote a help defender to prevent big scoring plays.  Ideally that burner has great body control and hands (unfortunately, Duvernay is average to below average at both).

Bad hands? I thought I read somewhere that Duverney went all season without a dropped pass? 

Nevermind, I see that Bodacious Beat me to the truth and Larry and Fico beat me to the reason.

Edited by SydneyCarton
Katfid Thinks All Blacks Look The Same
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Katfid54

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14 minutes ago, Bodacious Bevo said:

Duvernay bad hands? Didn't he finish the year with 0 drops? I do agree on the overthrow part. Sam owes him like 300 yards and 3 TDs. 

 

13 minutes ago, Fico said:

 

Hmm, I think Duvernay has some of the better hands on the team.  Maybe your confusing him with another WR on the team, you know being that most of football team looks so similar in your eyes...

 

8 minutes ago, Radical Larry said:

Forget it, Jake. It’s katfid.

 

2 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Bad hands? I thought I read somewhere that Duverney went all season without a dropped pass? 

Nevermind, I see that Bodacious Beat me to the truth and Larry and Fico beat me to the reason.

Oh, have we decided that it doesn't count as a drop if it hits you in the chest instead of your hands?

UybHby.gif

tODBbs.gif

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Katfid54

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Just now, GTNY said:

You’re going to use only one example with a horribly under thrown ball and a defender literally draped all over him....as a drop? 

Well it was the first thing I could remember off the top of my head, and I went to Youtube and found the film, found the place in the game where it happened, and made the two gifs.  But, sure, let me find you some other examples, bud.

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Katfid54

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2 minutes ago, Fud said:

Unless you're just trying to find a way to get both Mookie and Achane into the class, in which case I'd probably sell Achane on being an APB than a Z.  

Yes, this was what I meant.

If we have the option for Achane and Mookie (or Achane and Dixon), wouldn't you rather take those two guys instead of a guy who's just a worse version of an X receiver?

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SydneyCarton

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5 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

Well it was the first thing I could remember off the top of my head, and I went to Youtube and found the film, found the place in the game where it happened, and made the two gifs.  But, sure, let me find you some other examples, bud.

Listen. Maybe you find some drops. Maybe you dont. But I'm pretty sure it's not going to support the claim of "bad hands" when you look at the sum total. Here's what howe had to say in December:

Quote

According to Pro Football Focus, Duvernay leads the Big 12 and heads into the Allstate Sugar Bowl on Jan. 1 where Texas (9-4) will meet Georgia (11-2) at the Mercedes-Benz Superdome ranking No. 39 nationally with the highest number of receptions without a drop. UCLA’s Theo Howard (51) and Washington State’s Easop Winston (47) recorded more catches without a dropped pass than Duvernay did with the 39 balls he reeled in without letting one hit the ground.

https://247sports.com/college/texas/Article/Texas-Longhorns-vs-Georgia-Bulldogs-Sugar-Bowl-WR-Devin-Duvernay-putting-together-strong-season-126194981/

 

I think if that's the case, even if there were some bad calls mixed in not considered as drops, or other things overlooked, it's going to be pretty hard to make "bad hands" case stick. Why, that would be as absurd as making one thoughtless, errant comment on a message board and forever being branded as something like a myopic racist. What kind of group of people would support, much less gleefully relish that kind of absurdity?  

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Katfid54

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6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:
9 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

Well it was the first thing I could remember off the top of my head, and I went to Youtube and found the film, found the place in the game where it happened, and made the two gifs.  But, sure, let me find you some other examples, bud.

Listen. Maybe you find some drops. Maybe you dont. But I'm pretty sure it's not going to support the claim of "bad hands" when you look at the sum total. Here's what howe had to say in December:

LpO-9O.gif

Not a perfect pass, and who knows if he could've stayed in bounds.  But he doesn't secure the catch here, which he should.

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SydneyCarton

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1 minute ago, Katfid54 said:

I probably only imagined Duvernay dropping this one because of how racist I am:

7bZreu.gif

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So, you've got a ball thrown out of bounds in decent coverage, and you have 1 legit example here, which by the way was AFTER Howe's December 10th article where he claimed zero drops all season. You can continue to go down this path for every game of the year, or you can take Texifornia's sage advice. You've found one legit drop in post-season play. 

Out of curiosity, how many drops constitute "bad hands" to you?

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Bodacious Bevo

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11 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

I probably only imagined Duvernay dropping this one because of how racist I am:

7bZreu.gif

h5vSFb.gif

Yeah but Duvernay won the catch challenge in one of Collin Johnson's vlogs. Checkmate, katfid. 

On a serious note, it doesn't suprise me that Duvernay had a couple drops over the course of 14 games. That doesn't qualify him as having bad hands though. Especially considering his position means a lot of his opportunities are 25+ yards down field.  A couple other guys (like LJH) had bigger drop issues than Dev Duv but I wouldn't say anybody on the team had bad hands. 

E: Actually I want to change the last sentence. None of the guys that were consistently in the rotation last year had bad hands. 

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Katfid54

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1 minute ago, Red Five said:

Another PI.

 

1 minute ago, UncleBuck said:

DPI

 

Just now, BigBenBamboozle said:

tenor.gif?itemid=5452517

Well, it wasn't called.  And both of our other two starting wide receivers last year make that catch. 

So, yeah, I think it's fair to say Duvernay's hands weren't as good last year and would have contributed to him having a lot better year.  I legitimately don't understand why this is controversial at this point.

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Red Five

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Well, it wasn't called.  And both of our other two starting wide receivers last year make that catch. 
So, yeah, I think it's fair to say Duvernay's hands weren't as good last year and would have contributed to him having a lot better year.  I legitimately don't understand why this is controversial at this point.

Did you see the gif up above of Magic Johnson saying “stop it”?
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UncleBuck

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2 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

 

 

Well, it wasn't called.  And both of our other two starting wide receivers last year make that catch. 

So, yeah, I think it's fair to say Duvernay's hands weren't as good last year and would have contributed to him having a lot better year.  I legitimately don't understand why this is controversial at this point.

Not sure how it goes in college, but I believe when ELIAS sports compiles stats for the NFL, if they see a "drop" where there was an uncalled PI that resulted in it, they won't rule it a drop. 

 

I am now the ELIAS of NCAAFB and I say that wasn't a drop...

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Bodacious Bevo

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2 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

 

 

Well, it wasn't called.  And both of our other two starting wide receivers last year make that catch. 

So, yeah, I think it's fair to say Duvernay's hands weren't as good last year and would have contributed to him having a lot better year.  I legitimately don't understand why this is controversial at this point.

Lol that last one is on Sam. Sure, LJH and Collin make that catch but it should be pretty obvious that they are very different players than Duvernay and balls should be thrown to them differently. It would have been a spectacular catch if he had made it. Not making a spectacular catch ≠ bad hands.

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SydneyCarton

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7 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

Can't stop. Won't stop.

xRVCCR.gif

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Listen, I'm actually going to start taking this shit seriously at this point. A badly thrown ball and a guy was blanketed. So you're still at one. 

Also, I'm still waiting for you define a number of drops that you would consider "Bad Hands." Because the statisticians had it at zero before Georiga. Perhaps you should be composing a massive post pillorying the statisticians? 

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Katfid54

Katfid54 8591

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Just now, Bodacious Bevo said:

You said bad hands before editing your comment after getting called on it  

I didn't edit it.  It still says that.  So fuck you.

Just now, SydneyCarton said:

You said "bad hands." Specifically. 

Right.  Not drops.  Bad hands.

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Burt Macklin

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4 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

I don't think I ever said Duvernay had or didn't have "drops."  I said that I don't think his hands are very good.

Eh. I’d say he has good hands, but he’s poor at tracking the ball and body control. He’s a weird player. Great straight line speed, but poor agility. Pretty solid hands but poor positioning and adjusting to the ball. Sam needs to be more accurate on his deep balls for Duvernay to succeed, but I also hope we utilize Duvernay a bit more in the short passing game. He runs extremely hard and DBs have trouble bringing him down.

Unforutnatley for Duv, the Baylor offense was a great fit for him. I’m not sure many other offenses are. 

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Katfid54

Katfid54 8591

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8 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Listen, I'm actually going to start taking this shit seriously at this point. A badly thrown ball and a guy was blanketed. So you're still at one.  

Also, I'm still waiting for you define a number of drops that you would consider "Bad Hands." Because the statisticians had it at zero before Georiga. Perhaps you should be composing a massive post pillorying the statisticians? 

The OU and USC gifs are pretty similar. I guess I think a guy should bring those down (or at least come close to bringing them down, instead of letting them doink off their chestbone).  In my mind, that shows hands that are not great.

Frankly, I've popped through some other clips this morning, too, and the other thing that's so frustrating about Duvernay is he's just so rarely around the football when it's thrown to him. (I really don't want to start gif-ing those.)  I know some of those were on Sam last year, but a lot of them were on Duvernay running sloppy or imprecise routes or cutting off his route thinking the ball wouldn't be coming to him.  So then Sam starts compensating by throwing the ball behind him to slow Duvernay down and make sure the he is around the ball when it's thrown to him.  That means that when the ball is in his vicinity, there's more traffic.  But it becomes even more important he bring it down, and he misses that more than our other guys did last year.

Did I go too by saying his hands were bad?  Probably.  His diving catch against Maryland was fantastic.  Maybe it's not a hands issue and it really is more of a body control issue and not being able to adjust to get to the ball when he's making catches in traffic?  In any event, let's not all pretend Duvernay is the second coming of Odell Beckham, because he's not, and a Z receiver with his physical skills plus better route running, body control, and, yeah, hands, would make our offense more potent.

Edited by Katfid54
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SydneyCarton

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10 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

I didn't edit it.  It still says that.  So fuck you.

Right.  Not drops.  Bad hands.

You still haven't answered the question I've asked twice. I mean, it's obvious why you haven't answered the question, but nonetheless I wouldn't that a man of your glee for locution would be eager to add "Non Reading Fuck" to his resume. 

Edited by SydneyCarton
Just Pointing out he DID finally answer the question.
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SydneyCarton

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3 minutes ago, Katfid54 said:

The OU and USC gifs are pretty similar. I guess I think a guy should bring those down (or at least come close to bringing them down, instead of letting them doink off their chestbone).  In my mind, that shows hands that are not great.

Frankly, I've popped through some other clips this morning, too, and the other thing that's so frustrating about Duvernay is he's just so rarely around the football when it's thrown to him. (I really don't want to start gif-ing those.)  I know some of those were on Sam last year, but a lot of them were on Duvernay running sloppy or imprecise routes or cutting off his route thinking the ball wouldn't be coming to him.  So then Sam starts compensating by throwing the ball behind him to slow Duvernay down and make sure the he is around the ball when it's thrown to him.  That means that when the ball is in his vicinity, there's more traffic.  But it becomes even more important he bring it down, and he misses that more than our other guys did last year.

Did I go too by saying his hands were bad?  Probably.  His diving catch against Maryland was fantastic.  Maybe it's not a hands issue and it really is more of a body control issue and not being able to adjust to get to the ball when he's making catches in traffic?  In any event, let's not all pretend Duvernay is the second coming of Odell Beckham, because he's not, and a Z receiver with his physical skills plus better route running, body control, and, yeah, hands, would make our offense more potent.

Outstanding. I'm glad we're all on the same page now. 

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