2019 Women's World Cup - Do It Back to Back

[MagicSoccerSpray 1,732]

?

[austingirl 2,192]

 

2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

 

I believe these two are engaged.

[Pato del Muerto 52,600]

Is that O’Hara?

[bonnieblue 542]

Yep, O’hara

[UpperWestside 6,190]

The American women are just pretty damned awesome. They aren't just good at soccer. They regularly kick ass in damn near every sport in the Summer Olympics and now they go back-to-back at the World Cup. This amazing group of women deserve nothing but respect and admiration for this accomplishment. 

[austingirl 2,192]

33 minutes ago, bonnieblue said:

Yep, O’hara

 

42 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Is that O’Hara?

I guess it's not beyond belief that O'Hara would be macking on her teammate, but I believe she's straight. I thought the two above are Ali Krieger and Ashlyn Harris, who are engaged.

[bonnieblue 542]

confirmed by twitter that it was O’Hara, but looks like just macking on a random girlfriend, not a teammate

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

23 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

The American women are just pretty damned awesome. They aren't just good at soccer. They regularly kick ass in damn near every sport in the Summer Olympics and now they go back-to-back at the World Cup. 

Title IX was one of the best things we ever did for women’s athletics and it shows every other year in the olympics. 

Under the Nixon Administration oddly enough. 

[Guest Lobo]

Wisdom Fists?  

Welp, I know the name of my women's pro league fantasy team.  

[Michael Knight 12,995]

1 hour ago, UpperWestside said:

The American women are just pretty damned awesome. They aren't just good at soccer. They regularly kick ass in damn near every sport in the Summer Olympics and now they go back-to-back at the World Cup. This amazing group of women deserve nothing but respect and admiration for this accomplishment. 

It's all the hormones they put in the milk

[TheStoicPaisano 9,939]

10 hours ago, Ichabod said:

What are our odds to repeat in 2023?

6 of 7 forwards will be 34+ in ‘23, so how they age in the next four years will be a thing to watch. I have to assume Lloyd and Rapinoe are done, with Pugh taking on more responsibility.

GK could get dicey if Naeher retires, since Harris is likely gone. Franch and Johnston are the other two who have been on the senior team at all.

Elsewhere, Sauerbrunn is the only likely retirement. Tierna Davidson is a likely replacement there.

I don’t recall many huge prospects on the expanded friendly roster or injured list, but am going off memory. Obviously some kids from U-20 and the Olympics will earn spots as they mature.

They carried over 12 players from 2015 to 2019. Expect similar turnover.

[deadshank 24,653]

In the spirit of sportsmanship and compassion, I selflessly volunteer to console Danielle van de Donk of the Netherlands team.

 

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

12 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Title IX was one of the best things we ever did for women’s athletics and it shows every other year in the olympics. 

Under the Nixon Administration oddly enough. 

 

Agreed, great for the women not so great for men who don't play Basketball or Football. 

 

 

[Rimbo 26,111]

"Now that America has won the World Cup, it's officially called Soccer until someone beats us."

-- hover text for this comic

[HenryJames 66,171]

[sushihorn 3,233]

10 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

That's a MUCH better version of 2 girls, 1 cup.

['stache 21,866]

23 hours ago, kingkoopa6 said:

Lol. Love it

 

 

Alex Morgan shaking that ass will stay in my brain for many decades. God damn. Also, they deserve better than fucking Budweiser.

[Jive Turkey 12,644]

Rose is drunk AF.

 

[Drew 2,522]

What's really amazing is this was the most talented field they've every had, with teams like the Dutch and England coming strong to make it tougher than any other WC...and the USWNT still just flat dominated.

And that's with us bitching about lineups, Ellis in general, and lackluster play, the defense being suspect, so on, and so forth...

[ChickenSandwich 9,853]

On 7/7/2019 at 12:24 PM, GSU&UT said:

 

What is the main point of their argument?

on paper the men and woman seem to be paid equally. Since 2008 12 US soccer players have earned 1 million or more. 6 men. 6 women. 

Now the World Cup bonus is a different animal. Men’s total WC payout (all teams) about $400 million vs $30 million to divide among the players/teams. If this is what they are focusing it off of that seems wrong as total revenue is $6 billion vs $130 million. 

Where are they getting screwed in pay?  Benefits?  Per game payouts?  Or are they just using the World Cup payouts make up their numbers?

Edited July 8, 2019 by ChickenSandwich

[WBT 20,669]

19 minutes ago, Drew said:

What's really amazing is this was the most talented field they've every had, with teams like the Dutch and England coming strong to make it tougher than any other WC...and the USWNT still just flat dominated.

And that's with us bitching about lineups, Ellis in general, and lackluster play, the defense being suspect, so on, and so forth...

Not really.  2-1, 2-1, 2-1, and 2-0 in the knockouts.  4 years ago it was 2-0, 1-0, 2-0, 5-2.

[HenryJames 66,171]

 

[Drew 2,522]

That's kind of my point WBT...the competition this World Cup was tougher, and they still had similar success, and I'd say, with all of our griping about the little issues they had, they could have done even better with different linups/subs and such.

Basically it feels like the world is getting closer, but the Americans still got better.

Edited July 8, 2019 by Drew

[HenryJames 66,171]

 

[deadshank 24,653]

3 hours ago, 'stache said:

 Also, they deserve better than fucking Budweiser.

Face it,, they’re tougher than you. 

[LonghornJudas 1,102]

Oh my...

[sushihorn 3,233]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

What's really amazing is this was the most talented field they've every had, with teams like the Dutch and England coming strong to make it tougher than any other WC...and the USWNT still just flat dominated.

And that's with us bitching about lineups, Ellis in general, and lackluster play, the defense being suspect, so on, and so forth...

The Dutch had a whole ONE shot on goal in 90+ minutes.  Let that sink in for a second.  Did any opponent manage a shot on goal with a chance to tie the game late?  Obviously not the Netherlands.  England basically fell apart after the penalty save.  I don't think they got a shot of any kind after that.  Not the Spanish; they also only got one shot on goal.  Definitely no one in group play was in that position so maybe France?

[Voldemort86 2,259]

5 minutes ago, sushihorn said:

The Dutch had a whole ONE shot on goal in 90+ minutes.  Let that sink in for a second.  Did any opponent manage a shot on goal with a chance to tie the game late?  Obviously not the Netherlands.  England basically fell apart after the penalty save.  I don't think they got a shot of any kind after that.  Not the Spanish; they also only got one shot on goal.  Definitely no one in group play was in that position so maybe France?

France seemed the most threatening. They had the ball on our end for seemingly most of the game.

['stache 21,866]

On the equal pay debate, I will say that watching women's soccer at this level is just as entertaining as the men. Probably moreso, this year at least, because the personalities on this team were just fun to follow. Also they are dominant while the men's team will always be huge underdogs in later rounds. Point being, it's not like basketball where the women's game is completely different and subjectively less entertaining, or baseball where the women's equivalent is literally a different game. From a layfans perspective, I can hardly tell the difference in speed or skill level when watching women on TV vs men. It's probably there if I paid closer attention to the details, but it's not as obvious as the other examples. 

[Surly Bevo 25,152]

These ladies are great. Simply the best

But the pay argument is ridiculous when you look at the revenues and consider that the easiest way for woman soccer players to earn more money for what they do is.....

IF A WHOLE LOT MORE FUCKING WOMEN WATCHED IT.

[Deej 76,922]

The mens game is faster, once you factor out Michael Bradley.

[Ollie Slatt 289]

21 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Point being, it's not like basketball where the women's game is completely different and subjectively less entertaining, or baseball where the women's equivalent is literally a different game. From a layfans perspective, I can hardly tell the difference in speed or skill level when watching women on TV vs men. It's probably there if I paid closer attention to the details, but it's not as obvious as the other examples. 

If you watched more soccer it would become pretty obvious.   There are stories out there of the USWNT losing scrimmages to u15 and u17 boys teams.   

[Okie State 3,848]

These ladies are great. Simply the best

But the pay argument is ridiculous when you look at the revenues and consider that the easiest way for woman soccer players to earn more money for what they do is.....

IF A WHOLE LOT MORE FUCKING WOMEN WATCHED IT.

Which revenues are you referring to? Because it makes a difference in the argument.

[Deej 76,922]

28 minutes ago, Ollie Slatt said:

If you watched more soccer it would become pretty obvious.   There are stories out there of the USWNT losing scrimmages to u15 and u17 boys teams.   

https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-beat-the-u-s-womens-national-team-in-a-scrimmage/

[sushihorn 3,233]

Just rewatched the 2nd half of the final.  Netherlands was pretty much done less than 25 minutes in when Lavelle scored the second goal.  They basically had 3 attempts in the last 25+ minutes, none a real threat.  Free kick was deflected wide, contested shot that went straight to Naher for an easy save and another that was blocked by a defender.

[LonghornJudas 1,102]

Not directly related to the USSF, but if we dig into the available numbers from the World Cup seasons, the men's World Cup in Russia generated over $6 billion in revenue, with the participating teams sharing $400 million, less than 7% of revenue. The Women's World Cup is expected to earn $131 million for the full four-year cycle 2019-22 and dole out $30 million to the participating teams, which is 13%. If we go back even further, the Women's World Cup in Vancouver brought in almost $73 million and players got 13%. The men's World Cup in South Africa made almost $4 billion, of which 9% went to the players.

That's just to lay out some of the numbers for each WC season. Obviously, we can all do math and know that in pure dollar amounts, they're not equally paid, but the revenue is very much different.

I'm too lazy to get Firefox and the paywall extension, so if someone can see WSJ article, I think it breaks down the revenues. https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-womens-soccer-games-out-earned-mens-games-11560765600

Edited July 9, 2019 by LonghornJudas

[conVINCEd 21,469]

3 hours ago, Deej said:

The mens game is faster, once you factor out Michael Bradley.

The men’s game is faster, but for some reason, it doesn’t render the women’s game unwatchable,  like say, basketball.   It probably because no matter the speed, the goals are basically scored the same way as the men’s game.  Some headers, some set pieces, some pks, some moments of individual brilliance, it basically looks the same if you aren’t watching them side by side.  As a former keeper, the biggest difference between the sexes as that the keepers in the women’s game by and large suck and there are very few women that can really strike the ball hard from outside the box.

As to the economics, I fully support the national federation paying the men and women equally, and the free market can determine what their services are worth at the club level/endorsements.

[sushihorn 3,233]

47 minutes ago, conVINCEd said:

The men’s game is faster, but for some reason, it doesn’t render the women’s game unwatchable,  like say, basketball.   It probably because no matter the speed, the goals are basically scored the same way as the men’s game.  Some headers, some set pieces, some pks, some moments of individual brilliance, it basically looks the same if you aren’t watching them side by side.  As a former keeper, the biggest difference between the sexes as that the keepers in the women’s game by and large suck and there are very few women that can really strike the ball hard from outside the box.

Keepers in the women's game are smaller and less athletic which effectively makes the goal larger.  It seems to me that the men spend a lot more time trying to fool the defense, getting it moving side to side and then attacking against the grain to combat the keepers ability to cover so much of the goal.  The women seem to spend more time creating open shots and aiming for the post or upper corner where the keeper can rarely reach.  But I'm no expert on soccer.  Does that seem reasonably correct?

[Napoleon 8,700]

On 7/7/2019 at 9:40 AM, FondrenRoad said:

Rapinoe is an old looking 34. Her twin sister looks 5 to 10 years younger than her. 

...UNDEFEATED...

 

 

On 7/7/2019 at 9:03 PM, TheStoicPaisano said:

6 of 7 forwards will be 34+ in ‘23, so how they age in the next four years will be a thing to watch.

...Obviously some kids from U-20 and the Olympics will earn spots as they mature...

I don't think that you understand how the Women's game works.

The real thing is that the women play about 50 "friendlies" together to raise funds, spread awareness, and keep the top players in shape, because the US Women's season isn't very long. (I didn't even know that it existed.)

The USWNT is basically a club team that gets to play in International Tournaments together. The biggest hurdle for more national teams (men & women of all ages) is cohesion, because they so rarely play together. Not so with the USWNT. They probably have twice as much time together as the next team (women or men) in the world. They are like the Soviet Hockey Team during the Cold War.

In the old days Germany had something similar with a team called Bayern Munich, but even Germans have moved on to other countries. Most of the Dutch team has spent some time in the Ajax system, but that doesn't mean that they played together. 

Anyway, there is more talent than ever before in the US women's pipeline. I watched some of the NCAA women's soccer tournament last fall and it was already exciting in the early rounds. Good players will replace retiring legends and the team should cruise through the 2024 Olympics before finally meeting their match from some Euro nation in 2027. 

[Pato del Muerto 52,600]

So would giving the men’s and women’s teams an equal % of tournament payout be considered equal pay?  Or does it need to be equal dollars?

[ChickenSandwich 9,853]

25 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

...UNDEFEATED...

 

 

I don't think that you understand how the Women's game works.

The real thing is that the women play about 50 "friendlies" together to raise funds, spread awareness, and keep the top players in shape, because the US Women's season isn't very long. (I didn't even know that it existed.)

The USWNT is basically a club team that gets to play in International Tournaments together. The biggest hurdle for more national teams (men & women of all ages) is cohesion, because they so rarely play together. Not so with the USWNT. They probably have twice as much time together as the next team (women or men) in the world. They are like the Soviet Hockey Team during the Cold War.

In the old days Germany had something similar with a team called Bayern Munich, but even Germans have moved on to other countries. Most of the Dutch team has spent some time in the Ajax system, but that doesn't mean that they played together. 

Anyway, there is more talent than ever before in the US women's pipeline. I watched some of the NCAA women's soccer tournament last fall and it was already exciting in the early rounds. Good players will replace retiring legends and the team should cruise through the 2024 Olympics before finally meeting their match from some Euro nation in 2027. 

Interesting question, do the older players hold their spots longer due to the nature of it being a full time (as opposed to men) gig at the expense of younger talented players?  Will we run back the same 30 somethings for better PR at the next cup as well?

[TheStoicPaisano 9,939]

1 hour ago, Napoleon said:

I don't think that you understand how the Women's game works.

The real thing is that the women play about 50 "friendlies" together to raise funds, spread awareness, and keep the top players in shape, because the US Women's season isn't very long. (I didn't even know that it existed.)

The USWNT is basically a club team that gets to play in International Tournaments together. The biggest hurdle for more national teams (men & women of all ages) is cohesion, because they so rarely play together. Not so with the USWNT. They probably have twice as much time together as the next team (women or men) in the world. They are like the Soviet Hockey Team during the Cold War.

In the old days Germany had something similar with a team called Bayern Munich, but even Germans have moved on to other countries. Most of the Dutch team has spent some time in the Ajax system, but that doesn't mean that they played together. 

Anyway, there is more talent than ever before in the US women's pipeline. I watched some of the NCAA women's soccer tournament last fall and it was already exciting in the early rounds. Good players will replace retiring legends and the team should cruise through the 2024 Olympics before finally meeting their match from some Euro nation in 2027. 

My point is, everyone is “known” at different points, especially to casual fans who don’t closely follow age-level squads, Americans abroad or NWSL. I would posit that the 2016 Olympics were the first time people were exposed to Pugh, Dunn and Horan. College kids like Lavelle or Davidson were even more obscure. 

My bigger issue is, you have a aging core of seven players with three WC/2 Olympics behind them.  Until we see more kids getting senior team experience (friendlies, Olympics, CONCACAF) it’s hard to tell what the confidence level should be, let alone their names.

[Napoleon 8,700]

3 minutes ago, TheStoicPaisano said:

My point is, everyone is “known” at different points, especially to casual fans who don’t closely follow age-level squads, Americans abroad or NWSL. I would posit that the 2016 Olympics were the first time people were exposed to Pugh, Dunn and Horan. College kids like Lavelle or Davidson were even more obscure. 

My bigger issue is, you have a aging core of seven players with three WC/2 Olympics behind them.  Until we see more kids getting senior team experience (friendlies, Olympics, CONCACAF) it’s hard to tell what the confidence level should be, let alone their names.

This team doesn't shuffle players in-and-out like the men do. They go with their selected team and go and go and go. There are probably (though I don't know) players that would be just as good as some of the players on this team if they had been played in 30+ friendlies over the last two years, but they weren't selected. When the next great players are selected, they'll get ass-loads of games WITH the stars and will function together like a professional team.

They are out there. It isn't like we are witnessing a "Golden Generation". We're witnessing the vanguard of the fruits of 1999. There are hordes coming behind them.

[alincoln 2,385]

The 30+ players are the fruits of the 99 team.  The younger players are the product of the restructuring of girls club soccer following the 2007 World Cup.  

The player pool is indeed very deep but there is a valid concern that too many of the older players will try to stick around for the 2023 World Cup.  It will be tough for players to leave because the USWNT is both their platform and the source of their income, directly and indirectly.  That said, I expect many of the 30+ players will retire after the 2020 Olympics and only a couple will make it to 2023.  

[PittsburghTiger 6,197]

Some of the reporting on the pay gap has been just awful. This morning in the Pittsburgh Tribune/Valley News Dispatch a woman wrote a story supporting the equal pay. She interviewed various soccer people from around Pittsburgh. But then she got one major piece of information incorrect.

The women won a record fourth World Cup on Sunday, bringing in a $30 million prize, according to CNN. The winner of the 2018 men’s World Cup got $400 million.

 

 

According to this story, written before the WWC began……..

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/06/07/the-2019-womens-world-cup-prize-money-is-30-million.html

For the next month, 552 players representing 24 countries will compete to be named World Cup champions and for prize money — more than ever before. In October 2018, FIFA president Gianni Infantino announced that FIFA would raise the total prize money for the Women’s World Cup from $15 million to $30 million. The champions will take home $4 millionof those funds.

“It’s a very important message for women’s football. It will certainly boost this World Cup even more,” said Infantino at a news conference.

But critics unimpressed, including global footballers’ union FIFPRO.

“Despite these changes football remains even further from the goal of equality for all World Cup players regardless of gender,” said FIFPRO in a statement. “In reality, the changes actually signify an increase in the gap between men’s and women’s prize money. This regressive trend appears to contravene FIFA’s statutory commitment to gender equality.”

During the 2018 FIFA Men’s World Cup in Russia, 32 teams competed for $400 million in prize money. The champions, France, took home $38 million — more than all 24 women’s teams will compete for in 2019. This year, the women’s teams will split 7.5% of the total prize money that the men enjoy.

 

Throw in this from Rich Lowry’s story in the New York Post and the demand for equal money gets even more muddled

 

https://nypost.com/2019/07/08/us-womens-soccer-team-equal-pay-gripe-is-less-than-it-seems/

This seems blatantly unfair, until you take into account the vastly different viewership and revenue from the two events. FIFA raked in more than $6 billion from the 2018 men’s World Cup. The women’s 2019 World Cup has been projected, when all is said and done, to make about $130 million.

 

[PittsburghTiger 6,197]

20 minutes ago, alincoln said:

The 30+ players are the fruits of the 99 team.  The younger players are the product of the restructuring of girls club soccer following the 2007 World Cup.  

The player pool is indeed very deep but there is a valid concern that too many of the older players will try to stick around for the 2023 World Cup.  It will be tough for players to leave because the USWNT is both their platform and the source of their income, directly and indirectly.  That said, I expect many of the 30+ players will retire after the 2020 Olympics and only a couple will make it to 2023.  

I hope you are correct. Not because I don't like them, but the page has to turn at some point.

[ATLLonghorn 857]

16 minutes ago, PittsburghTiger said:

I hope you are correct. Not because I don't like them, but the page has to turn at some point.

I think a gold medal in 2020 would be a send off for Rapinoe, Lloyd, Sauerbrunn and Krieger. If Heath's club form stays sharp over the next couple of years I could see her coming back in 2023. Press may stick around because if Rapinoe retires she becomes a starter until someone younger unseats her. US Soccer is going to try and keep Alex Morgan around as long as they can. They will try to keep her playing until she's 40.

[tokamak 6,441]

Can't find a good link right now, but IIRC part of the argument that the women have been making is that men's and women's soccer draw similar TV ratings in the US. Fox bought the rights to the men's and women's tournaments together as a package, so no one knows the true breakdown of their relative values.

[alincoln 2,385]

46 minutes ago, ATLLonghorn said:

I think a gold medal in 2020 would be a send off for Rapinoe, Lloyd, Sauerbrunn and Krieger. If Heath's club form stays sharp over the next couple of years I could see her coming back in 2023. Press may stick around because if Rapinoe retires she becomes a starter until someone younger unseats her. US Soccer is going to try and keep Alex Morgan around as long as they can. They will try to keep her playing until she's 40.

Agreed.  Morgan will make millions over the next 4 years if she keeps playing.  

Megan Rapinoe: 
- Led team w/ 20 chances created and 14 from open play 
- 4th player & 1st American to win WWC Golden Ball & Golden Boot (Sawa, Marta, Prinz)
- 2nd player to start 3 WWC finals (Prinz)

Alex Morgan:
- Led team with 21 shots (19 inside the box)
- Fouled 13 times, five more than any other teammate and fourth-most in the tournament 
- Committed a team-high 9 fouls

Tobin Heath:
- Led team with 25 take-ons, successful at a 52% clip (about average)

Rose Lavelle:
- 17 take-ons, successful at a 71% clip (avg was 55%)
- 12 successful take-ons, one behind Heath for most on the team 
- 11 tackles, third-most on the team

Sam Mewis:
- 11 chances created from open play, second-most on team 
- 14 tackles, second-most on the team 
- 7 interceptions, most on team 
- 43 recoveries, third-most on team 
- Won a team-high 15 aerial duels in the defensive half

Julie Ertz:
- Won possession in the middle third most often on the team (28) 
- 44 recoveries, second-most on team
- Won a team-high 15 aerial duels in the defensive half 

Kelley O'Hara:
- 45% of her touches were in the attacking half 
- Team-high 80% completion rate on passes to the attacking third 
- Third-highest expected assists on the team (1.2) 
- My vote for the USWNT player you least want to face in a Death Match 

Becky Sauerbrunn:
- Led the team with 21 clearances 
- Won 72% of her duels, second-best rate on the team 

Abby Dahlkemper:
- Played 622 of 630 minutes, most of any U.S. field player 
- Stretched the field by completing 14 forward passes of 30+ meters (no other U.S. field player had more than 8), at a 33% clip that was right about average

Crystal Dunn:
- Led the team with 477 touches 
- 80 touches per 90 minutes were most among the top 11 players in minutes 
- Team-high 28 tackles, double any other player 
- Team high 45 recoveries 
- Won a team-high 73% of her duels (50-50 balls)

Alyssa Naeher:
- 12 saves in 7 games, including 4 saves vs France and 3 vs England 
- Saved almost two goals above expected based on shots on target

[ATLLonghorn 857]

10 minutes ago, alincoln said:

Tobin Heath:
- Led team with 25 take-ons, successful at a 52% clip (about average)

This is going to be the subtitle of Tobin Heath's autobiography.

Quote

Crystal Dunn:
- Led the team with 477 touches 
- 80 touches per 90 minutes were most among the top 11 players in minutes 
- Team-high 28 tackles, double any other player 
- Team high 45 recoveries 
- Won a team-high 73% of her duels (50-50 balls)

These numbers are absolutely stunning considering she was playing out of position. What a baller.