2019 Women's World Cup - Do It Back to Back

[Huckleberry 33163]

It's also because the opposition was targeting her repeatedly (i.e., Deion Sanders didn't have many pass breakups). The duels won percentage is definitely straight up good.

I 100% agree that she played hard and should be commended for busting her ass while out of position.

[tokamak 6444]

I've seen a lot of praise for Dahlkemper but I thought she was downright bad at points.

[ztejas 43605]

Dunn is a really, really good player. I'm not sure she's a natural left back but her play in the attacking and mid third of the pitch was about all you can ask for from that position. 

[Hagbard Celine 10967]

18 hours ago, Deej said:

The mens game is faster, once you factor out Michael Bradley.

The gravity well equation in the unified field theory was finally solved Sunday night in Chicago, Illinois.

[ATLLonghorn 857]

47 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Dunn is a really, really good player. I'm not sure she's a natural left back but her play in the attacking and mid third of the pitch was about all you can ask for from that position. 

She's a winger. Ellis played her at fullback to get her on the field. She's been an attacking player her whole career.

[tantric superman 4668]

18 hours ago, 'stache said:

On the equal pay debate, I will say that watching women's soccer at this level is just as entertaining as the men. Probably moreso, this year at least, because the personalities on this team were just fun to follow. Also they are dominant while the men's team will always be huge underdogs in later rounds. Point being, it's not like basketball where the women's game is completely different and subjectively less entertaining, or baseball where the women's equivalent is literally a different game. From a layfans perspective, I can hardly tell the difference in speed or skill level when watching women on TV vs men. It's probably there if I paid closer attention to the details, but it's not as obvious as the other examples. 

My daughter played from age 5 through DIII soccer.  I watched so much girls soccer, and I enjoyed it.  But when I went to tournaments (or when the guys were playing at college) and I had a chance to mosey on down to watch the boys play, I just got the biggest grin on my face every time I watched, because the boys just turned it up to 11 or 12 or 13 depending on how pissed they were. 

You really see the difference if you go directly, in person, standing right on the field. 

Some of the runs that Lavelle had made me rethink my stance that the girls just didn't have the gear the boys have.  This team was pretty spectacular, but that 11th gear -- still hard to find a woman's team that has it 11 deep.

 

 

 

[Hagbard Celine 10967]

17 hours ago, Okie State said:

Which revenues are you referring to? Because it makes a difference in the argument.

https://globaledge.msu.edu/blog/post/22946/soccers-impact-on-the-global-economy

During the four year World Cup cycle from 2011-2014, FIFA generated a record $5.72 billion of revenue, 70% of which came from the sale of marketing and television rights to the 2014 World Cup in Brazil. FIFA (in 2015 held) cash reserves of approximately $1.52 billion.

+++

https://www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2019/07/07/fifa-earns-a-red-card-for-poor-event-management-at-the-2019-womens-world-cup/#3c2e748e3d6d

https://www.textise.net/showText.aspx?strURL=https%3A//www.forbes.com/sites/prishe/2019/07/07/fifa-earns-a-red-card-for-poor-event-management-at-the-2019-womens-world-cup/%233c2e748e3d6d

"FIFA MUST OPERATE ITS EVENTS AS IF TITLE IX APPLIES TO THEM"

According to a June 2018 piece in the New York Times, the 2018 World Cup in Russia generated an estimated $6.1 billion in revenue (including $3 billion-plus in TV rights and approximately $1.5 billion in sponsorship deals).

Conversely, as my Forbes colleague Mike Ozanian noted in a March 2019 piece, the 2019 Women's World Cup was projected to earn $131 million for the full four-year cycle (2019-22).

+++

I appreciate Forbes actually doing some journalism on the revenue numbers which were a bitch to dig out of the intertrons. Google and Bing DO NOT want to return accurate results right now while the pussyhat crowd is in a frenzy ZOMG! WIMMENS BESTER THAN MENNS!!!!

The women's game is basically a rounding error on the men's game.  It's practically irrelevant.  2/3rds of countries around the planet refused to pay broadcast rights fees for the Women's World Cup in 2019.  As stated above, the 2019 women's world cup is worth 2.15% of the 2018 men's world cup.

The US Women have an incredible case of American Exceptionalism, but they're in good company with The Cabal.  They deserve each other.

It was announced this morning that the Women and The Cabal are going to arbitration.  Smart move on both their parts.  The Women's position is a dutch dike waiting to burst (yes I see what i did there) and The Cabal once again avoids discovery.  Parade tomorrow.  Nothing to see here.

Move along.

Move along.

/jmt

 

[Hagbard Celine 10967]

apologies, it was actually announced back on june 22nd

https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-us-soccer-uswnt-pay-dispute-mediation-20190622-story.html

It was a talking point on multiple mid-day news broadcasts

[Pato del Muerto 52664]

Trying to make title IX a global initiative.  Best of luck in that noble endeavor. 

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

Soccer still considered a business or an altruistic endeavor? 

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

1. Is USA soccer supposed to cover the revenue gap caused by the lack of revenue generated by the woman’s game compared to the men’s? 131 million vs 6 billion in revenues?  

2. Or is the USA soccer fed supposed to force FIFA to greater subsidize the woman's game? 

Women will already be the highest paid soccer players this year. What’s the end game?

[HtownHorn 14795]

2 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Trying to make title IX a global initiative.  Best of luck in that noble endeavor. 

How many countries have women's teams? My guess is FIFA would tell the ladies to pound sand, no one gives a shit about your tournament, hold it yourselves.

[Knoxtnhorn 6072]

3 hours ago, tantric superman said:

My daughter played from age 5 through DIII soccer.  I watched so much girls soccer, and I enjoyed it.  But when I went to tournaments (or when the guys were playing at college) and I had a chance to mosey on down to watch the boys play, I just got the biggest grin on my face every time I watched, because the boys just turned it up to 11 or 12 or 13 depending on how pissed they were. 

You really see the difference if you go directly, in person, standing right on the field. 

Some of the runs that Lavelle had made me rethink my stance that the girls just didn't have the gear the boys have.  This team was pretty spectacular, but that 11th gear -- still hard to find a woman's team that has it 11 deep.

 

 

 

There really is a difference.  I wonder if the difference is less noticeable due to the size of the field and/or the fact that the ball is far more often apart from the player.  Sorry.  Just got back from a long trip.  I know my grammar/communication skills suck right now.  What I mean is that, in basketball, you see the ball in the player's hand(s) making the skill differential easier to see.  In soccer, the ball is more often traveling between players.  The skill differential is only noticeable via foot speed or 50/50 balls.  I coached high school girls soccer.  Neither team was very good; however, the boys would have won at least 20-0.  

I was always a bit better at basketball than soccer.  That being said, I've had the opportunity to play against both a former Lady Vol all-American basketball player and a former starting right back for the Lady Vol basketball team.  The talent level compared to my own was pretty even.

[SimonBolivar 10961]

28 minutes ago, HtownHorn said:

How many countries have women's teams? My guess is FIFA would tell the ladies to pound sand, no one gives a shit about your tournament, hold it yourselves.

I'm not sure they can tell them that. If the West plus Japan, ROK, and China view them as sexist assholes they'd have a hard time finding sponsors willing to sponsor that image and the vast majority of their money comes from those regions. The mass of countries that don't care still really like money. I think it depends on how much of a fight the women put up and if they set demands where everyone still makes a ton of money.

Edited July 9, 2019 by SimonBolivar

[alincoln 2385]

The market will dictate what the women are worth once FIFA unbundles the women's sponsorships and tv rights from the men's.  

[TonyTexas 10537]

11 year old Rose

 

['stache 21895]

 

There really is a difference.  I wonder if the difference is less noticeable due to the size of the field and/or the fact that the ball is far more often apart from the player.  Sorry.  Just got back from a long trip.  I know my grammar/communication skills suck right now.  What I mean is that, in basketball, you see the ball in the player's hand(s) making the skill differential easier to see.  In soccer, the ball is more often traveling between players.  The skill differential is only noticeable via foot speed or 50/50 balls.

I think this is what I was trying to say. Watching on TV, it's just plain entertaining, and the speed difference is hard to notice unless comparing side by side, in my opinion at least. As opposed to basketball, where NBA players (especially if watching in person from the lower level) is mind boggling to me how fast they are going and how in a split second it seems they can make it from the three point line to the basket. The women's game is obviously much slower and more fundamental. I'm not even all that concerned with dunking, but it's just completely different.

[achooloco 1086]

Nice, just heard an announcement at my stop advising people where to get off if they are celebrating the World Cup parade. Wish I could go

[achooloco 1086]

Gf got stuck in the parade on the way to work, got to see rapinoe, lavelle, and took some videos too. Looks like a pretty bad ass turnout

[JimmyHoffa 1188]

16 hours ago, alincoln said:

The market will dictate what the women are worth once FIFA unbundles the women's sponsorships and tv rights from the men's.  

 

I agree but the other side of the argument is that the men's game should subsidies the women's game to give them time to have a chance to catch up. The WNBA wouldn't be around if it wasn't for the money they were given by the NBA. The problem with any women's soccer league is there isn't enough revenue with the MLS to ever consider that option when it comes to soccer in the US. 

It seems the same argument happened the last couple of world cups after the buzz of the women's game at it's peaks. A league gets formed games are played and attendance is OK for awhile and then drops off, without a large TV partner like ESPN to drop a shit ton of money for rights a new women's league has no shot of ever having enough time to show profitability. 

However people will say look at  women's and men's tennis as an example where they are about as close to equal pay and viewership as any men's/women's sport could be. 

Like a lot of things everybody thinks the answer is super easy when in reality it's complex as fuck and has a million different factors that Mr. or Mrs. Twitter fingers never thinks about for a second. 

Edited July 10, 2019 by JimmyHoffa

[ztejas 43605]

16 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

There really is a difference.  I wonder if the difference is less noticeable due to the size of the field and/or the fact that the ball is far more often apart from the player.  Sorry.  Just got back from a long trip.  I know my grammar/communication skills suck right now.  What I mean is that, in basketball, you see the ball in the player's hand(s) making the skill differential easier to see.  In soccer, the ball is more often traveling between players.  The skill differential is only noticeable via foot speed or 50/50 balls.  I coached high school girls soccer.  Neither team was very good; however, the boys would have won at least 20-0.  

I was always a bit better at basketball than soccer.  That being said, I've had the opportunity to play against both a former Lady Vol all-American basketball player and a former starting right back for the Lady Vol basketball team.  The talent level compared to my own was pretty even.

Men are also just naturally much better at basketball in general, and every aspect of basketball. Having longer arms, bigger hands, broader shoulders, a much stronger upper body, higher vertical reach and jumping ability, are such huge advantages in basketball - it really is a sport designed for men to excel at compared to women.

Soccer doesn't rely as much on athleticism or physical build and is through and through a sport based mostly on technique. There is nothing getting in the way of girls having great dribbling, passing, or shooting skills in soccer - and those skills are about 80% if not more of what your total ability on the pitch is going to be. Whereas, on the basketball court, if you're 6'7" with soft hands and a decent touch from inside 5 feet you can show up at almost any pick-up gym in the country and instantly be one of the best players on the court. With like... 2 or 3 decent skills. You can't do that in soccer. 

[Pato del Muerto 52664]

Maradona 5’5

messi 5’7

pele 5’8

women can be this size and very athletic. There are roles where height or strength are useful but there are also roles where quickness, athleticism, and coordination are most important. 

[ATLLonghorn 857]

 

[Napoleon 8709]

1 hour ago, Pato del Muerto said:

Maradona 5’5

messi 5’7

pele 5’8

women can be this size and very athletic. There are roles where height or strength are useful but there are also roles where quickness, athleticism, and coordination are most important. 

Real Heights:

Maradona 5’3”

Messi 5’6” (Maybe... after HGH)

Pele 5’6”-ish

 

But Maradona’s speed, strength, and ball control could never be matched by a woman  

Messi’s ability to stop, change direction, and be going full speed can’t be matched by a woman  

Pele’s speed can’t be matched by a woman  

You start with one or more + physical traits AND THEN add technique to get a pro player  That’s why 14 & 15 year-old boys can beat top women’s teams. Physical superiority AND skill.

 

[hayden_horn 11365]

15 minutes ago, ATLLonghorn said:

 

this is like senator geary intentionally mispronouncing the corleone surname and calling kay pat on the stage, and then later min the study, over prounouncing is "cor-lee-onee." this guy knows what he is doing, and he's trying to make a power play on her name. it's shitty.

[Hagbard Celine 10967]

boom

west virginia senator just scored a direct topedo hit on the cabal's prime directive

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-manchin-equal-pay-womens-soccer-world-cup_n_5d24d66ee4b0cfb595fcef07

 

Joe Manchin: No Federal Money For 2026 World Cup Until Women’s Team Gets Equal Pay

The Democratic senator introduced a bill that would cut off all federal funding when the U.S. hosts the men’s international soccer tournament.

 

 

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

lol.  How does he feel about the NBA paying out the men over a billion plus in free agent contracts this month vs the WNBA wages.  How are the situations different? This is pathetic pandering.  Let FIFA sell split off the two soccer programs and let them run themselves.  It's a damn business, not some altruistic human right. 

It's economics, the woman should easily attract investment and sponsorship knowing that the product is viable and profitable.  They are not "owed" more money because a rival business is more successful. 

Imagine if all of the virtue signaling was replaced with marketing and growing the game to increase the revenue they want.  Instead, just give it to me, its the right thing to do....

Edited July 10, 2019 by ChickenSandwich

[Hagbard Celine 10967]

3 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

It's a damn business, not some altruistic human right.

Well, not in this country.  It's a 501(c)3 non-profit.  Except there are problems for The Cabal.  The entire construct has morphed from a hat-in-hand shoestring operation to a massive ten billion mash-up with an LLC (MLS) and another LLC (SUM), all 3 of which now control the rights to the Confederation; and.... AND .... FIFA bylaws expressly prohibit any intervention by the civil government of a country in to the dealings of it's Federation, which if the rest of the world wanted to triple-down on, could cause FIFA to have an excuse to pull 2026 from the US.

And I don't blame the wimmens for this at all.  I think they are delusional, but the the pussyhat crowd has taken over this topic and they are poking a hornet's nest of privelege and power.  In the sporting world, this is akin to driving up to the guard station at Area 51, poking one foot past the orange poles, and telling the cammo dudes: "i double-dog dare-ya".

[Hagbard Celine 10967]

14 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Imagine if all of the virtue signaling was replaced with marketing and growing the game to increase the revenue they want.  Instead, just give it to me, its the right thing to do....

wanted to make this a separate post / separate topic....

if the wimmens have a problem with the current set-up, they need to go to St. Louis and Portland, march in, and declare they want a meeting with the C-suite, and they're not leaving till they get it.

if budweiser or nike wanted to pay equally for sponsorship, then the wimmens could have an argument with The Cabal.

budweiser's spontaneous sponsorship of the NWSL last week is noted.

[Spankytoes 1743]

6 hours ago, achooloco said:

Gf got stuck in the parade on the way to work, got to see rapinoe, lavelle, and took some videos too. Looks like a pretty bad ass turnout

Route went right in front of my office and I got some pretty nice pictures. Awaiting the return on Tapatalk to post them

[FondrenRoad 4378]

5 hours ago, ztejas said:

Men are also just naturally much better at basketball in general, and every aspect of basketball. Having longer arms, bigger hands, broader shoulders, a much stronger upper body, higher vertical reach and jumping ability, are such huge advantages in basketball - it really is a sport designed for men to excel at compared to women.

Soccer doesn't rely as much on athleticism or physical build and is through and through a sport based mostly on technique. There is nothing getting in the way of girls having great dribbling, passing, or shooting skills in soccer - and those skills are about 80% if not more of what your total ability on the pitch is going to be. Whereas, on the basketball court, if you're 6'7" with soft hands and a decent touch from inside 5 feet you can show up at almost any pick-up gym in the country and instantly be one of the best players on the court. With like... 2 or 3 decent skills. You can't do that in soccer. 

Stephanie Labbe, Canadian national team goalkeeper, tried out for and made a men's MLS feeder league team.  The league itself nixed her being on the roster.

And I wouldn't expect goalkeeper to be a position where a world class female player could compete with semi-pro men.  I would think they would have a better chance at midfielder or forward.  If you look at Rose Lavelle's world cup final goal, there are probably only 1 or 2 players on the USMNT roster that can switch to the left foot and score a pinpoint goal like that.  Jozy Altidore fucked a similar shot up that very same night.  To be fair though, her pace is slower than everyone on the USMNT except Altidore and Bradley, and the Netherlands women's defenders weren't keeping pace with her.  Had she been playing the Mexico men's team, they would have cheap shot her by tripping her or kicking her in the face before she had gotten the shot off, whereas Altidore can power through illegal contact.  If the refs called it clean though, she'd have a good chance of contributing to a men's team.

[alincoln 2385]

Good lord.  Professional men and women soccer players aren't comparable at all.  The female GK making a feeder team was a publicity stunt.  Every current D-1 men's GK is better than Hope Solo in her prime.  It has been beaten to death, but the best women in the world can't compete with regionally elite 15-16 year old boys.  The differences in strength, speed and agility are massive.  Girls can and do play with boys until around 12.  My 10 year old is currently at a camp where the elite girls and boys are playing together and the best girls can hold their own in almost every respect.  Once the testosterone hits though, its fucking over.

[Rimbo 26173]

I disagree that the women should be paid the same as the men.

They should be paid more than the men.

When the men's team wins a World Cup, then they can get paid the same as the women.

[Deej 77003]

27 minutes ago, alincoln said:

Good lord.  Professional men and women soccer players aren't comparable at all.  The female GK making a feeder team was a publicity stunt.  Every current D-1 men's GK is better than Hope Solo in her prime.  It has been beaten to death, but the best women in the world can't compete with regionally elite 15-16 year old boys.  The differences in strength, speed and agility are massive.  Girls can and do play with boys until around 12.  My 10 year old is currently at a camp where the elite girls and boys are playing together and the best girls can hold their own in almost every respect.  Once the testosterone hits though, its fucking over.

Women will just have to sue Mother Nature.

[HtownHorn 14795]

1 hour ago, Rimbo said:

I disagree that the women should be paid the same as the men.

They should be paid more than the men.

When the men's team wins a World Cup, then they can get paid the same as the women.

The women negotiated their contract with US soccer and signed on. They could have said fuck no to the terms and walked away. You know how many shits would be given had they walked away? The same number of shits Jimbo gave when Kandi was fucking around on him.

Edited July 11, 2019 by HtownHorn

[Rimbo 26173]

So cut the men's pay until the rates are commensurate with their relative on-field success. Easy.

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

Naa. Just cuts the cord and uncouple the two revenue streams and let each stand on their own. 

As is, the women already receive a higher percentage of revenue produced vs them men, so “equality” would mean a pay cut for the girls. 

[Huckleberry 33163]

So we're giving the USMNT credit for the revenue generated by the men's World Cup?

[alincoln 2385]

52 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

So we're giving the USMNT credit for the revenue generated by the men's World Cup?

We are giving them credit for participating in a significantly more popular and competitive sport that generates significantly more revenue than women's soccer.    

[Huckleberry 33163]

We are giving them credit for participating in a significantly more popular and competitive sport that generates significantly more revenue than women's soccer.    

So should the Bahamian men's team make more than the USWNT?

[alincoln 2385]

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

31 minutes ago, alincoln said:

We are giving them credit for participating in a significantly more popular and competitive sport that generates significantly more revenue than women's soccer.    

So should the Bahamian men's team make more than the USWNT?

Obviously, if they make the World Cup.  Since they won't and no one pays shit to watch their games, they make virtually nothing.

[Huckleberry 33163]

1 minute ago, alincoln said:

Obviously, if they make the World Cup.  Since they won't and no one pays shit to watch their games, they make virtually nothing.

I'm sure you probably noticed that the United States men did not participate in the 2018 World Cup. That's why I asked about the Bahamian team. They also participate "in a significantly more popular and competitive sport that generates significantly more revenue than women's soccer." I'm basically asking for you to flesh out your argument with details instead of one-liners. Does the USMNT deserve to be paid more than the USWNT because they play the men's game and the men's game makes more money (this is what you actually said), or do they deserve to be paid more because they specifically generated more revenue than the women's team did?

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

On 7/9/2019 at 4:43 PM, ChickenSandwich said:

1. Is USA soccer supposed to cover the revenue gap caused by the lack of revenue generated by the woman’s game compared to the men’s? 131 million vs 6 billion in revenues?  

2. Or is the USA soccer fed supposed to force FIFA to greater subsidize the woman's game? 

Women will already be the highest paid soccer players this year. What’s the end game?

Yes, it should be subsidized.  Actually, FIFA should split everything across the board globally based on playing time. It's supposedly a non-profit and even the men are woefully underpaid based on the amount of revenue brought in. The World Cup and other national team contests aren't technically professional sporting events. 

[Spankytoes 1743]

Outside my office yesterday

[ChickenSandwich 9856]

3 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Yes, it should be subsidized.  Actually, FIFA should split everything across the board globally based on playing time. It's supposedly a non-profit and even the men are woefully underpaid based on the amount of revenue brought in. The World Cup and other national team contests aren't technically professional sporting events. 

100% for that. 

[hayden_horn 11365]

this is also about more than just equal pay. it's about equal treatment.

the women are made to play at times on field turf. the men never would play on field turf. there are a lot of little things in there as well.

honestly, all it would take is fox partnering with a couple of other large companies, and making up the difference in sponsorship deals. win-win.

[Teamdirtyleg 1062]

"One nation, one team".   Pretty weak slogan.

[TonyTexas 10537]

Typical. Woman using sexuality for economic advancement.

[Patricio Swayze 17058]

Repped for tits.

[Drew 2552]

On ‎7‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 11:45 PM, Pato del Muerto said:

So would giving the men’s and women’s teams an equal % of tournament payout be considered equal pay?  Or does it need to be equal dollars?

That's where the issue is.  People can't figure out if it's dollar for dollar, or percentage of revenue earned.  Figure that out, and explain it properly, and this goes away.

 

19 hours ago, Rimbo said:

I disagree that the women should be paid the same as the men.

They should be paid more than the men.

When the men's team wins a World Cup, then they can get paid the same as the women.

Oh hardy har har...guess the Suns shouldn't be paid a dime while the runner ups in the WNBA should get paid more.