Unwritten rules - break up no hitter with bunt

[TexasMan 10989]

17 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

if it's 8-0 then it's weak as fuck. if it's 3-0 then the game is still in hand and it's 100% fine, and whining about that makes you a giant baby. being on your fourth different pitcher AND it's still a 3-0 game means that a bunt base hit shouldn't even move the needle, but baseball players are even more sensitive than soccer players, so what are you gonna do?

 

Damn this is a pretty spot on take...

 

 

17 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

the hard truth that a lot of baseball guys don't want to accept- baseball's unwritten rules and traditions are almost exclusively cared about/enforced by white, american players, many of whom (especially these days) come from privileged and entitled backgrounds. the whole "respect the game" stuff is a fucking joke, and so are the douchebag baseball players who crow about this crap.

these are the same guys who walk, talk, dress, and act like they're trying to win the "world's biggest douchebag" contest, with their goofy, stupid facial hair, and a big ole fat chaw in their lip. these are the same guys who interrupt in-game interviews by throwing seeds and gum on their teammate, they put bubble gum on a teammates' hat, or they light his foot on fire in the dugout, and that's all super respectful and kosher, but then some black guy from an island nation wearing three gold chains stares at his HR for two seconds and these clowns empty the benches because, "respect for the game hurr durr." give me a break. 

 

Oh no...

 

 

 

15 hours ago, Goo Punch said:

ooh, looks like i hit a nerve. "the brotherhood and respect that baseball is about.." lol okay. all i got from your super mature response is that you wear oakleys and a tilted-sideways hurley hat to complement your sweet chin beard, replete with copenhagen juice. sorry my posts sting so bad, but the truth hurts, and american baseball players are by and large as douchey as it gets in the world of sports. but more importantly than that, they are the absolute worst at falling back on tired cliches about unwritten rules and "respect for the game" every time they get upset. it's just a whole bunch of BS.

OH JESUS CHRIST NO 

[Hank Chinaski 6322]

23 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Total pussy SJW bullshit. If you don’t want someone to pimp their home run, be good enough to not let them homer in the first place. Don’t get your feelings hurt & try to physically hurt someone like a bitch because of your own failure. 

“If you don’t like us dancing then don’t let us get in the endzone.”

Interesting. I feel that whining about getting hit by a pitch after you act like a fucking clown is "total pussy bullshit." I feel like peacokcing and self-celebration is "total pussy bullshit."

If a pitcher hits a guy only because he hit a HR, yeah it's a bitch move. If the guy acts like a jackass and shows the pitcher up...not feeling too bad for the hitter. 

You know who had the best "endzone" dances? Earl Campbell and Barry Sanders. 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Hank Chinaski

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Nah, it’s a sport. Have some fun and show some personality in a sport where you rarely see personality. If the manager is going to get butt hurt and tell the pitcher to hit the batter, that’s on the manager. Plus, it’s just more entertainment for the fans. Don’t take that shit out of the sport. All of it, from the bat flipping, the showing up the pitcher, the intentionally getting hit with the baseball, to the fight, is good for the sport.

But what about the kids that look up to you? I don’t know, fucking be better parents. Explain that major leaguers are allowed to do certain things that you won’t ever be able to do until you get to the majors. And obviously don’t hit someone above the back.

Edited June 8, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[formermav43 4606]

48 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

And that demographic is Brian McCann.

Any ethical system that results in Carlos Gomez getting punched in the face is ok in my book.

[Helobious 9467]

22 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

Interesting. I feel that whining about getting hit by a pitch after you act like a fucking clown is "total pussy bullshit." I feel like peacokcing and self-celebration is "total pussy bullshit."

If a pitcher hits a guy only because he hit a HR, yeah it's a bitch move. If the guy acts like a jackass and shows the pitcher up...not feeling too bad for the hitter. 

You know who had the best "endzone" dances? Earl Campbell and Barry Sanders. 

I just think you’re pretty mentally weak if you let someone get in your head & offend you that easy. “Damn this asshole just spent 1 entire second standing there watching the 480 foot homer he just hit off me, let me throw a 99 mph fastball at his rib cage next time.”

Edited June 8, 2019 by Helobious

[Beau Vine 54471]

I'm still trying to figure out how:

1.  Bunting with a no-hitter is not OK, but...

2.  Giving an IBB to a hitter who has hit three homers is OK.

Someone needs to write down these unwritten rules, because there's no logical consistency to some of them.

[jimmyjazz 46266]

This entire thread went exactly as I expected it would.

 

[petscii 1189]

14 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

This entire thread went exactly as I expected it would.

 

full derka?

[Goo Punch 4275]

6 minutes ago, petscii said:

full derka?

calmer than they are.

[Pato del Muerto 52625]

8 minutes ago, Goo Punch said:

calmer than they are.

You’re the only one making it a race issue though 

[Hank Chinaski 6322]

4 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Nah, it’s a sport. Have some fun and show some personality in a sport where you rarely see personality. If the manager is going to get butt hurt and tell the pitcher to hit the batter, that’s on the manager. Plus, it’s just more entertainment for the fans. Don’t take that shit out of the sport. All of it, from the bat flipping, the showing up the pitcher, the intentionally getting hit with the baseball, to the fight, is good for the sport.

Meh, if I wanted to watch pro wrestling, I would.

Emotion is fine...if you get a game-winning hit to clinch the pennant or win a postseason game, flip your bat or jump up and down or whatever (nobody begrudges Carlton Fisk or Kirk Gibson or Joe Carter). If you're Derek Dietrich and you strut around the bases because you hit a HR in a lopsided game against Pittsburgh in June, show a little goddamn humility (because you make outs 70% of the time) and act like an adult who is doing his job. Don't bring that contrived/choreographed, self-congratulatory NFL bullshit to baseball. 

Now, get off my goddamn lawn; and yes, I'm old, white and further along the spectrum than most of you and don't really understand most people's idea of "fun."

[petscii 1189]

I dunno, If you fight in college you are out the game and the next.  Seems to stop most of it.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

But that’s the thing. Derek Dietrich isn’t going to act like he’s been there, because he’s never been there. He’s never been this type of slugger. He’s already tied or passed his career high of 17. It’s all new to him, and he has like half of those hrs against the Pirates. I get what you’re saying, but if he wants to twist the knife a little bit, I get it. And if Pittsburgh is like “fuck this guy, I’m hitting him next AB” I get that too. I’m probably in the minority, but that dynamic is part of what makes baseball fun to watch. I don’t need it to have an enjoyable baseball watching experience, but I’m always going to enjoy watching a little baseball drama because even in a blowout, it’s entertaining to me.

[Goo Punch 4275]

42 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

You’re the only one making it a race issue though 

no I am not making it a race issue, i'm pointing out the truth of the matter and there are several other posters who've stated that im not wrong when i say so. the "respect the game" crowd is a bunch of Dallas Braden's and Jonathan Papelbon's, while the guys they rage on are largely black and latin players. that's just the way it is.

so, from the fact that i out and out stated that i don't believe that race is the driving force behind the issue, and the fact that there *is* a noticeable racial divide on the two sides of the issue, i'm not "making it" about anything other than what it is. 

Edited June 8, 2019 by Goo Punch

[Goo Punch 4275]

@housious if you're going to neg literally every single post i make you should at least join in the conversation. 

[TexArcher 38080]

I'm a baseball purist on most things and I like a lot of the unwritten rules, but this is silly.

It's a 3-0 game and he's a professional who plays for the other team.  Get him out.  Maybe expect that a team down three runs might try anything to get a guy on to start a rally and position your defense accordingly.

The whole notion that a bunt single isn't a "real hit" is fucking absurd, too.  Henry Aaron was one of the greatest bunters of all time.

The whole point of a no-hitter is that it's really hard to get professional hitters out 27 times.  Now they're trying too hard against you?  Get the fuck out.

[Homesickhorn 2208]

no I am not making it a race issue, i'm pointing out the truth of the matter and there are several other posters who've stated that im not wrong when i say so. the "respect the game" crowd is a bunch of Dallas Braden's and Jonathan Papelbon's, while the guys they rage on are largely black and latin players. that's just the way it is.
so, from the fact that i out and out stated that i don't believe that race is the driving force behind the issue, and the fact that there *is* a noticeable racial divide on the two sides of the issue, i'm not "making it" about anything other than what it is. 

If race isn’t the issue, take ‘white’ and ‘black’ out of your initial posts. I think it’ll actually help your argument. Even though I still dislike your broad stereotype, if you remove race, then your posts have more clout imo.

[jimmyjazz 46266]

This never would have been an issue if it weren't for that darned Jackie Robinson.

[F250 28826]

6 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

I'm still trying to figure out how:

1.  Bunting with a no-hitter is not OK, but...

2.  Giving an IBB to a hitter who has hit three homers is OK.

Someone needs to write down these unwritten rules, because there's no logical consistency to some of them.

I've always thought of the unwritten rules as more of a guideline for behavior that promotes sportsmanship rather than an actual set of rules that must be followed to the letter.

In the case of the OP's story there was no unsportsmanlike behavior since the game was still winnable.

[dcar00 14381]

14 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Odor didn’t go after the bat flipper. That wasn’t how that situation played out. Matt Bush hit Bautista. It was Bautista’s last AB against the Rangers all year so he tried to find a way to seek revenge. He decided he would slide into 2nd with a little bit of intent, considering Odor is 5’8” 185. What could possibly go wrong. Odor tried to essentially hit him in the face with the baseball, and Bautista didn’t like that. He got up with the idea that he was going to get into a fake baseball fight. Odor pushed him (universal warning that this could get ugly if this continues), and Bautista raises his hand, again, as if this is going to be a fake baseball fight. He quickly learned the hard way that it wasn’t a fake baseball fight. 

You can say he was out to get Bautista all you want, but that never happens if Bautista doesn’t slide into 2nd base aggressively. You can say Odor maybe thought to himself “I wish this dude would try me so I can put my hands on him” and I’ll buy that. But Odor had nothing to do with Bautista getting hit. He tried to take his frustration out on the wrong guy. Had he just charged the mound and gone after the person that actually hit him with the baseball, I don’t think he turns into a meme/gif the way he did. Unless Matt bush decks him, of course.

right, he went after batflipper by low bridging him because he knew he was going to come in hot to second base after getting plunked..  there are all kinds of indications of what is coming in these situations.  Bautista knew he was going to get plunked.  charging the mound gets you ejected.  coming in hot at second against a player that likely all the BJ's hate anyway might not get you ejected.   Odor was ready and wasn't going to hold back.

The payback on these unwritten rules can be games, months, seasons in between as everyone knows.

my point is that there is no "race" situation in the unwrittend rules at all.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

37 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

right, he went after batflipper by low bridging him because he knew he was going to come in hot to second base after getting plunked..  there are all kinds of indications of what is coming in these situations.  Bautista knew he was going to get plunked.  charging the mound gets you ejected.  coming in hot at second against a player that likely all the BJ's hate anyway might not get you ejected.   Odor was ready and wasn't going to hold back.

The payback on these unwritten rules can be games, months, seasons in between as everyone knows.

my point is that there is no "race" situation in the unwrittend rules at all.

Nobody on the blue jays really had a reason to hate Odor at that time. At least not in terms of how he played or acted towards Toronto up until that point. Bautista was frustrated that Bush didn’t get thrown out. If he was mad, he should’ve charged the mound and got into a shoving match with Bush (since that’s ultimately all he was looking for). Or he could’ve just worn it, and known that he won the “war” the year before by hitting a 3 run hr to send us home.

But he tried to pick a fight with the smallest guy on the team. Classic move of someone who doesn’t really want to fight anyone. He just happened to pick a fight with someone that would actually fight him. Maybe the only dude on the team that would actually fight him. No way Bautista slides like that if he knows that about Odor. Odor doesn’t try to “low bridge” Bautista if he just slides into 2nd base like the new rules state you should. He shouldn’t have got hit, but everything that happened after was self inflicted.

Edited June 9, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[Johnny Sack 8397]

20 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

This never would have been an issue if it weren't for that darned Jackie Robinson.

Yeah, he was known for prancing around like a Kansas City faggit after a long ball.  

[JimmyJames 12271]

How in the hell did this get somehow made into a race issue? 

The fact that it was the fourth pitcher in the game makes it a complete non issue. Who gives a fuk. 

The fact that it was a 3-0 game and therefore still competitive makes it an even bigger non issue. The game wasn’t even close to out of hand.

What in the hell was the pitching team bitching about? Those guys should all be suspended for a couple games for being bitch asses. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by JimmyJames

[dcar00 14381]

23 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Nobody on the blue jays really had a reason to hate Odor at that time. At least not in terms of how he played or acted towards Toronto up until that point. Bautista was frustrated that Bush didn’t get thrown out. If he was mad, he should’ve charged the mound and got into a shoving match with Bush (since that’s ultimately all he was looking for). Or he could’ve just worn it, and known that he won the “war” the year before by hitting a 3 run hr to send us home.

But he tried to pick a fight with the smallest guy on the team. Classic move of someone who doesn’t really want to fight anyone. He just happened to pick a fight with someone that would actually fight him. Maybe the only dude on the team that would actually fight him. No way Bautista slides like that if he knows that about Odor. Odor doesn’t try to “low bridge” Bautista if he just slides into 2nd base like the new rules state you should. He shouldn’t have got hit, but everything that happened after was self inflicted.

we can all agree Bautista is a bitch. again my point is the unwritten rules are known by all and enforced regardless of race.  the "respect the game" thing is about showing up an opponent.  you used to not do anything when you got a double or big hit or homer.  now everyone does something towards their dugout when the do that. Why?  because you can't throw at the next guy and shut it down without potentially getting ejected.  its not a coincidence the examples used were pitchers. 

To be clear, I really don't give a shit that throwing at a guy for payback has been limited and yeah I'm an old traditional guy.

[jimmyjazz 46266]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

How in the hell did this get somehow made into a race issue? 

Well, you see, Derka started in about white douchebags and island-born black dudes and . . .

[maninblack 7974]

Anyone that thinks this was busch is wrong and probably never played baseball.

[Beau Vine 54471]

On 6/9/2019 at 9:45 PM, maninblack said:

Anyone that thinks this was busch is wrong and probably never played baseball.

[Helobious 9467]

Had to chime in again & say that Bautista is an effeminate prima-dona bitch that’s definitely never been in a real fight in his life. Never been more happy to see someone get punched in the face. He had absolutely no idea what to do and was waiting for his teammates to save him from a 5’8” man.

[Guest]

On 6/8/2019 at 10:50 AM, formermav43 said:

Any ethical system that results in Carlos Gomez getting punched in the face is ok in my book.

Rougned Odor will always have a smidgen of redeeming qualities about him for the Joey Bats thingy.  Other than that, I wish his sulking, brooding bitchass self would burst into flames.

 

And those calling the showboating entertainment are wrong.  The player doesn't need to tell me they made a play.  I'm cool with them getting pumped up and excited in the moment; but it is not necessary to put it in the opponent's face.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

1 hour ago, slorch said:

Rougned Odor will always have a smidgen of redeeming qualities about him for the Joey Bats thingy.  Other than that, I wish his sulking, brooding bitchass self would burst into flames.

 

And those calling the showboating entertainment are wrong.  The player doesn't need to tell me they made a play.  I'm cool with them getting pumped up and excited in the moment; but it is not necessary to put it in the opponent's face.

There really is no difference between the getting pumped up and putting it in the opponents face. Unless a guy is just staring you down as he rounds the bases or says something directly to you or your team, it’s all about how you take it. If you wanna he a wet blanket and complain about a guy strutting a little bit around the bases as he’s hit his 3rd hr against your team, you need to understand that YOU are the one being a wet blanket. A big part of sports is showing emotion. Baseball is the only sport that tries to scrub that shit out. But I don’t mind that either. It’s always been an interesting/entertaining part of baseball to me. 

[Guest]

Dude hitting 3HRs against your team doesn't need to say shit.

 

He already did it.

 

I'll be honest, that's one of the things I love about hockey and why i think fighting should always be allowed.  Yeah, you serve your penalty, but there are certain liberties and horseshit that ain't gonna fly.

Edited June 14, 2019 by slorch

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

37 minutes ago, slorch said:

Dude hitting 3HRs against your team doesn't need to say shit.

 

He already did it.

 

I'll be honest, that's one of the things I love about hockey and why i think fighting should always be allowed.  Yeah, you serve your penalty, but there are certain liberties and horseshit that ain't gonna fly.

Lol you probably don’t like TD celebrations either. “Barry Sanders would just hand the ball to the ref. Act like you’ve been there”. Fuck that. I actually don’t think Derka is as far off base as you guys are making it seem, but I think it’s more a generational thing than it is a race specific thing. Have some fun. Quit being a god damn wet blanket old people lol. It’s sports, it isn’t something that should be taken so seriously. If I hit a 460ft hr, I’m going to watch that shit until it hits the seats because I know I fucking crushed that one. I wanna see where it lands. If I score a big TD, I’m celebrating with my teammates like I just scored a goal in soccer. Sports, man... the shit ain’t that serious. Your line of thinking will be phased out by 2030, if not sooner. 

 

I agree with you on the hockey take though. It would get rid of a lot of bitchassness

Edited June 14, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[Guest]

I’m cool as hell with team celebrations, big moments, etc.

Beat your opponent during the play, not after it.

[Hank Chinaski 6322]

35 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Lol you probably don’t like TD celebrations either. “Barry Sanders would just hand the ball to the ref. Act like you’ve been there”. Fuck that. I actually don’t think Derka is as far off base as you guys are making it seem, but I think it’s more a generational thing than it is a race specific thing. Have some fun. Quit being a god damn wet blanket old people lol. It’s sports, it isn’t something that should be taken so seriously. If I hit a 460ft hr, I’m going to watch that shit until it hits the seats because I know I fucking crushed that one. I wanna see where it lands. If I score a big TD, I’m celebrating with my teammates like I just scored a goal in soccer. Sports, man... the shit ain’t that serious. Your line of thinking will be phased out by 2030, if not sooner. 

I agree with you on the hockey take though. It would get rid of a lot of bitchassness

Again, there is a difference between emotion and inane choreographed celebrations that are intended to be clever and/or funny and never are. That's professional wrestling shit. I guess I am missing how it is "fun." Agreed that it is generational, though. 

That's cool, watch your HR, flip your bat, draw attention to yourself. Just don't get mad when you get hit in the ass next time up, or act like you didn't bring it on yourself. 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Hank Chinaski

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

12 minutes ago, Hank Chinaski said:

Again, there is a difference between emotion and inane choreographed celebrations that are intended to be clever and/or funny and never are. That's professional wrestling shit. I guess I am missing how it is "fun." 

That's cool, watch your HR, flip your bat, draw attention to yourself. Just don't get mad when you get hit in the ass next time up, or act like you didn't bring it on yourself. 

That’s been my stance from day one. I’m ok with both sides, and how they view celebrations. But if you’re aiming for my back, you better not miss high or we’re going to have a serious problem. If someone gets hit in the ass or in the back, they aren’t getting hurt. At that point quit being a baby, put some ice on your bruise, and keep it moving.

Edited June 14, 2019 by youdunnf'dup

[gsoda3 3283]

On 6/8/2019 at 10:09 PM, youdunnf'dup said:

But he tried to pick a fight with the smallest guy on the team. Classic move of someone who doesn’t really want to fight anyone. He just happened to pick a fight with someone that would actually fight him. Maybe the only dude on the team that would actually fight him. No way Bautista slides like that if he knows that about Odor.

there's a reason he didn't charge the mound.  matt bush was in prison for 3+ years before he joined the rangers.  i wish the benches would've cleared.  would love to see how bush/keone kela would have reacted.

[Huckleberry 33115]

Are there any reports on whether the infield was playing a little deeper because of the no-hitter and assuming nobody would bunt? That's the kind of bullshit that pisses me off. When Schilling whined like a little bitch his infield had backed up because they thought the stupid unwritten rules meant the opponent wouldn't bunt. That cheapens a no-hitter. If the defense is trying to take advantage of the unwritten rules to achieve a rigged result then the opponent should shove those rules right up their ass with a bunt base hit. Just like Lipka did.

The reason that no-hitters and even moreso perfect games are so revered is because the concept is that you got 27 outs where the opponent was 100% trying to get a hit (or get on base) every single plate appearance. So when people say that the unwritten rules mean you can't bunt your way on after the 6th or 7th inning in a no-hitter or perfect game they're full of shit. Why the fuck would I be as impressed by a no-hitter or perfect game in a situation where the batters have willingly taken away one of their weapons in trying to get on base? I wouldn't, because that's not as impressive.

And no, I don't care if the score is 9-0 with 2 outs in the 9th. If the batter is sacrificing one of his weapons in getting on base then he's an idiot. If the defense is not playing it straight because of those unwritten rules and he doesn't take advantage then he's even more of an idiot. I'm waiting for the day where a dead pull left-handed hitter comes up in the 9th inning of a no-hitter and the defense plays a major shift. Fuck you, I'm bunting in that situation.

Edited June 14, 2019 by Huckleberry

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

Haha I forgot about Kela. I take back what I said. Kela was absolutely the first person on the team that would’ve fought him, if the opportunity presented itself lol. 

[Beau Vine 54471]

23 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Haha I forgot about Kela. I take back what I said. Kela was absolutely the first person on the team that would’ve fought him, if the opportunity presented itself lol. 

One of my best friends coached football at Kela's HS.  He said he flipped on a Rangers game one day and couldn't believe Kela was pitching.  He said he could believe he was in the majors, but couldn't believe he wasn't in jail.  

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

10 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

One of my best friends coached football at Kela's HS.  He said he flipped on a Rangers game one day and couldn't believe Kela was pitching.  He said he could believe he was in the majors, but couldn't believe he wasn't in jail.  

If I remember correctly, the ”beef” started with bitch boy Josh Donaldson staring down Kela after he threw a fastball that Donaldson barely missed. I want to say Donaldson then said something, and kela almost charged home plate haha. Yeah, there are hot heads, and then there’s keone kela. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13528]

On 6/8/2019 at 10:31 AM, youdunnf'dup said:

I was only referring to a minor league setting where your overall goal is to develop...

Disagree that minor leagues is where the overall goal is to develop. You should then argue the same then for college, high school and every youth baseball league. Don't worry about winning, just worry about developing so that you can play MLB one day.

Every single baseball game should be played to win. Otherwise don't keep score.

Now in every sport there is a point that the game is out of hand and the result is 99.999% locked in. In that situation, I think it's fair to back off.  But if you think about it, a no-hitter while up 15-0 then isn't as impressive as a 1-0 no-hitter.   The 1-0 no-hitter had batters actually trying to get a hit until the end.  The 15-0 guy may have had it handed to him for the last few innings.

[youdunnf'dup 2147]

2 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Disagree that minor leagues is where the overall goal is to develop. You should then argue the same then for college, high school and every youth baseball league. Don't worry about winning, just worry about developing so that you can play MLB one day.

Every single baseball game should be played to win. Otherwise don't keep score.

Now in every sport there is a point that the game is out of hand and the result is 99.999% locked in. In that situation, I think it's fair to back off.  But if you think about it, a no-hitter while up 15-0 then isn't as impressive as a 1-0 no-hitter.   The 1-0 no-hitter had batters actually trying to get a hit until the end.  The 15-0 guy may have had it handed to him for the last few innings.

If each high school and college were run by a specific major league organization (like the minors) than your argument would make more sense. I don’t necessarily disagree with what you’re saying. You obviously want to win, and you want to teach your players how to win. But ultimately, if you have a losing record in the minors for whatever reason, yet your players are coming to the show ready to produce at a high level, are you going to fire the manager for having a losing record, or are you going to praise him for doing a great job at developing players. That’s the difference. If a high school coach is producing a ton of division 1 talent, but he can’t even make the playoffs, he’s getting fired. If a college is a factory for major league talent, but you can’t make it to regionals, your ass is getting fired.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13528]

I agree to some extent but I would assume that MiLB owners also care about fans in the stands. If the team is going 40-100 but continuing to send up MLB prospects, I would think the stands are relatively empty.   

Admittedly I've never permanently lived in a minor league town but I assume fans always care about seeing a winning team over one that just produces talent for the major league team.

 

[Beau Vine 54471]

19 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Disagree that minor leagues is where the overall goal is to develop. You should then argue the same then for college, high school and every youth baseball league. Don't worry about winning, just worry about developing so that you can play MLB one day.

Every single baseball game should be played to win. Otherwise don't keep score.

 

This is ridiculous.  Not even ever single major league game is played to win.  If they were, then you'd see the Astros regularly starting Verlander on 3 days' rest.  The goal is to win the war, not win every single battle. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13528]

13 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

This is ridiculous.  Not even ever single major league game is played to win.  If they were, then you'd see the Astros regularly starting Verlander on 3 days' rest.  The goal is to win the war, not win every single battle. 

I don't get your point. I wasn't arguing that the best pitcher should start every game until his arms falls off.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I agree to some extent but I would assume that MiLB owners also care about fans in the stands. If the team is going 40-100 but continuing to send up MLB prospects, I would think the stands are relatively empty.   

Admittedly I've never permanently lived in a minor league town but I assume fans always care about seeing a winning team over one that just produces talent for the major league team.

 

 

 I absolutely look at the prospects on the teams we are playing. If I have a chance to go see the Hooks play Amarillo, or a different squad, I’ll pick the Corpus game all of the time because I want to see Astros prospects play..

 

 I agree that you should play to win and execute to the best of your ability, but the minor leagues are places where guys are working on their swings or pitching techniques and it might not always manifest itself as a win on the field.

Edited June 14, 2019 by slorch

[gsoda3 3283]

the point's moot.  major league teams don't own their minor league affiliates.  

[txhorns 2413]

I was a pitcher.  Had a no hitter going top of the 7th in high school with a 6-0 lead.  Games only go 7 innings in high school.  With 1 out the batter dropped down a bunt.  I fielded and threw to 1st but the batter was inside the line a few feet.  Plunked him in the head and he tripped over 1st base.  The little bitch was out, got hit in the head and looked like an idiot tripping on the bag.  I called him out on it on his long walk back to the 3rd base dugout.

 

If the game is still competitive then who cares if the batter drops down a bunt.  Same with IBB a guy who has hit 3 HRs already that day.  If the game is out of hand then those are just bitch moves.  If a pitcher doesn't like it then he should do some more PFPs.  Being the pitcher doesn't make you exempt from having to field.

[F250 28826]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Disagree that minor leagues is where the overall goal is to develop. You should then argue the same then for college, high school and every youth baseball league. Don't worry about winning, just worry about developing so that you can play MLB one day.

Every single baseball game should be played to win. Otherwise don't keep score.

Now in every sport there is a point that the game is out of hand and the result is 99.999% locked in. In that situation, I think it's fair to back off.  But if you think about it, a no-hitter while up 15-0 then isn't as impressive as a 1-0 no-hitter.   The 1-0 no-hitter had batters actually trying to get a hit until the end.  The 15-0 guy may have had it handed to him for the last few innings.

MiLB is a subsidized developmental league specially developing players for the Majors. Many of the players in MiLB are only there to provide competition for the players that are expected to make it to the Majors.

There is no comparison to college baseball but in high school baseball a similar comparison can be made to the Varsity and Junior Varsity relationship. The coaches don't put much value on the JV win/loss record and will not hesitate to pull one of the best JV players to fill a need for the Varsity because JV is for developing players for Varsity where the wins mean more.

[F250 28826]

1 hour ago, gsoda3 said:

the point's moot.  major league teams don't own their minor league affiliates.  

I believe the MLB teams own the players and coaches contracts. The name, stadium, concessions, etc belong to the minor league franchise. If you control the players and coaches, you essentially own the team.