Gibson's Bakery v. Oberlin College

[wildcat09 29258]

4 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

I agree.  (smirk)

 

Seriously, I have other colleagues who are professors and staff who are conservatives/right leaning.  But I also teach college in Houston. 

From my experience, you don't see a lot of conservatives in higher education because they choose not to get into that profession.  This is why I don't understand conservatives who bitch and complain like 3 year olds over "liberal professors" in college.  Well guess what, those are the people who want to make a living in that profession.  

It's the same with journalism. The journalism industry is mostly liberal not due to a liberal conspiracy to keep conservatives out but because conservative kids aren't interested in careers in journalism.

[lemonlime 5503]

It's an excuse to be racist.  Point to some stupid college kids, and use it as license to be as racist, sexist, and xenophobic as you want.  The same people who are gleeful on here about this $ 11 million verdict, are absolutely silent about the Pulse nightclub shooting, shooting up synagogues and mosques, the huge rise in hate crimes since trump became president, locking up brown children, the Muslim ban, etc.  But, hey, some 19-year-old libtards did something dumb, so I can be as un-PC (read: racist) as I want.  And hey, you libtards who don't like the president saying there were good Nazis, well you're just hysterical, like these 19-year-old college students who are clearly representative of everyone who's not a trump kool-aid drinker in the country.

[alincoln 2364]

7 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

It's an excuse to be racist.  Point to some stupid college kids, and use it as license to be as racist, sexist, and xenophobic as you want.  The same people who are gleeful on here about this $ 11 million verdict, are absolutely silent about the Pulse nightclub shooting, shooting up synagogues and mosques, the huge rise in hate crimes since trump became president, locking up brown children, the Muslim ban, etc.  But, hey, some 19-year-old libtards did something dumb, so I can be as un-PC (read: racist) as I want.  And hey, you libtards who don't like the president saying there were good Nazis, well you're just hysterical, like these 19-year-old college students who are clearly representative of everyone who's not a trump kool-aid drinker in the country.

Well, you are clearly hysterical.  Not sure of the reason though.

[Zavala 1384]

 

[RomaVicta 29794]

[Incredulity 11555]

24 minutes ago, alincoln said:

Well, you are clearly hysterical.  Not sure of the reason though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_derangement_syndrome

[David Dennison 18661]

The funny thing about professor Zhou's position is that illegal immigrants are a net positive for the economy. 

[lemonlime 5503]

The people who are pissed that twitter blocks racists because Mah-Free-Speech rights, are gleefully celebrating an $11 million defamation verdict against a college. But it's the libtards who are hysterical snowflakes.  Gotcha.

[David Dennison 18661]

I expect an update when the case is reversed on appeal or settled for a much lower amount.

[ChiTownDoc 21102]

56 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

It's an excuse to be racist.  Point to some stupid college kids, and use it as license to be as racist, sexist, and xenophobic as you want.  The same people who are gleeful on here about this $ 11 million verdict, are absolutely silent about the Pulse nightclub shooting, shooting up synagogues and mosques, the huge rise in hate crimes since trump became president, locking up brown children, the Muslim ban, etc.  But, hey, some 19-year-old libtards did something dumb, so I can be as un-PC (read: racist) as I want.  And hey, you libtards who don't like the president saying there were good Nazis, well you're just hysterical, like these 19-year-old college students who are clearly representative of everyone who's not a trump kool-aid drinker in the country.

This is 100% truth.  Show me where Zavala and Tahoe show up in those other threads.  You won’t see it.  

[Zavala 1384]

40 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_derangement_syndrome

https://encyclopediadramatica.rs/Liberal_Butthurt_Syndrome

17 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

This is 100% truth.  Show me where Zavala and Tahoe show up in those other threads.  You won’t see it.  

I'm in the gun control and immigration threads, just not on the same side as you. I love how this lemonlime sock frames it though, everything is about these specific news talking points. 

Quote

Great Minds Discuss Ideas; Average Minds Discuss Events; Small Minds Discuss People.

 

[FondrenRoad 4378]

I hope the precedent sticks. It will be nice when aggy is sued out of existence for the dumb shit their students do. 

[Zavala 1384]

47 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The funny thing about professor Zhou's position is that illegal immigrants are a net positive for the economy. 

[citation needed]

https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 hours ago, David Dennison said:

College is not a vocational school. You shouldn't be there to learn a trade.

I guess you missed the part where he stated or get into a trade...  But hey massage that agenda.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[David Dennison 18661]

5 minutes ago, Zavala said:

[citation needed]

https://www.fairus.org/issue/publications-resources/fiscal-burden-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

Care to cite a non-biased source?

[Zavala 1384]

26 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Care to cite a non-biased source?

Care to make an argument the points presented at the link or post your own source? Everything has bias.  

This is just a collection of data, all sourced in the end notes:

https://www.fairus.org/sites/default/files/2017-09/Fiscal-Burden-of-Illegal-Immigration-2017.pdf

[Brian Fantana 6668]

I miss the days when Tahoe just tried to spark discussion about how black people are genetically inferior.

[Ghost of LL 15492]

Of course it would be racist donuts that draw Tahoe out of his long slumber.

[BLKNSTY 289]

3 hours ago, Foosters said:

lol, zavala didn't go to college

sure as shit not Texas engineering either lmao

he's EMAW, Crusher, Tahoe level regarded.

I'm like 99% sure dude's a Russian bot.

[David Dennison 18661]

1 hour ago, Zavala said:

Care to make an argument the points presented at the link or post your own source? Everything has bias.  

This is just a collection of data, all sourced in the end notes:

https://www.fairus.org/sites/default/files/2017-09/Fiscal-Burden-of-Illegal-Immigration-2017.pdf

https://www.epi.org/publication/immigration-facts/#epi-toc-11

Scroll down to 9 if you want to read up on undocumented immigrants.

 

[Asithappens 974]

2 hours ago, Zavala said:

 

And by "reward" you mean having the US consumer pay less for tomatoes and lettuce?

Gotcha.

[Zavala 1384]

7 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

https://www.epi.org/publication/immigration-facts/#epi-toc-11

Scroll down to 9 if you want to read up on undocumented immigrants.

 

Having trouble tracking down the data that supports the facts from your link, since it only references other secondary sources.

Scrolled down to 9...

15. National Resource Council, “The Future Fiscal Impacts of Current Immigrants,” Chapter 7 in James P. Smith and Barry Edmonston [editors], The New Americans, National Academy Press, Washington, D.C., 1997,  http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic803549.files/Week%209-November%203/Smith_Future.pdf

isites platform has been retired

16. Jordan Rau, “Immigrants Contribute More To Medicare Than They Take Out, Study Finds,” Kaiser Health News, May 29, 2013, http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/May/29/immigrants-Medicare-health-costs.aspx

17. Eduardo Porter, “Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions,” New York Times, April 5, 2005, http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&

18. Eduardo Porter, “Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions,” New York Times, April 5, 2005, http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&

19. Tax Policy Center, “T11-0176 – Baseline Distribution of Tax Units with No Income Tax Liability by Cash Income Percentile; Current Law, 2011,” July 13, 2011, http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?DocID=3057

Oops, this page doesn't exist

20. Nina Bernstein, “Tax Returns Rise for Immigrants in U.S. Illegally,” New York Times, April 16, 2007, http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/nyregion/16immig.html?pagewanted=print

Interesting read though.

Quote

The long-run fiscal impact at the federal level is strongly positive; however, the impact at the state and local levels is negative.

 Are taxpayers in states with illegal immigrants subsidizing the wealth of the nation?

[jimmyjazz 45560]

"Nuh-goo-yen".  Jesus.  

Note that this gallant professor likes to use phrases like "libtards" and "ghetto thugs" in his lectures.  Gosh, I can't imagine why anyone might doubt his objectivity.  I hope Georgia Gwinett College can weather the storm.  Maybe they should team up with Oberlin, like a sugar daddy relationship.

[David Dennison 18661]

2 minutes ago, Zavala said:

Having trouble tracking down the data that supports the facts from your link, since it only references other secondary sources.

Scrolled down to 9...

15. National Resource Council, “The Future Fiscal Impacts of Current Immigrants,” Chapter 7 in James P. Smith and Barry Edmonston [editors], The New Americans, National Academy Press, Washington, D.C., 1997,  http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic803549.files/Week%209-November%203/Smith_Future.pdf

isites platform has been retired

16. Jordan Rau, “Immigrants Contribute More To Medicare Than They Take Out, Study Finds,” Kaiser Health News, May 29, 2013, http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/May/29/immigrants-Medicare-health-costs.aspx

17. Eduardo Porter, “Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions,” New York Times, April 5, 2005, http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&

18. Eduardo Porter, “Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions,” New York Times, April 5, 2005, http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&

19. Tax Policy Center, “T11-0176 – Baseline Distribution of Tax Units with No Income Tax Liability by Cash Income Percentile; Current Law, 2011,” July 13, 2011, http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?DocID=3057

Oops, this page doesn't exist

20. Nina Bernstein, “Tax Returns Rise for Immigrants in U.S. Illegally,” New York Times, April 16, 2007, http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/16/nyregion/16immig.html?pagewanted=print

Interesting read though.

 Are taxpayers in states with illegal immigrants subsidizing the wealth of the nation?

You should go through all of those secondary sources and report back. 

Get to reading.

[Zavala 1384]

Just now, David Dennison said:

You should go through all of those secondary sources and report back. 

Get to reading.

I would, but the links are broken, the first one is a Harvard study from 1997...

The others are new york times articles without sources. Also behind a paywall. 

Where is the data gathered to come to the conclusions you present as facts? 

[David Dennison 18661]

Just now, Zavala said:

I would, but the links are broken, the first one is a Harvard study from 1997...

The others are new york times articles without sources. Also behind a paywall. 

Where is the data gathered to come to the conclusions you present as facts? 

It sounds like you've already found the data, you just disagree with it.

 

[Zavala 1384]

1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

It sounds like you've already found the data, you just disagree with it.

 

What data? Post the link and I'll read it. I'm sure there's some out there but what you posted sourced broken links and other secondary sources. 

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

8 hours ago, Zavala said:

Texas. Engineering school so I didn't run into professors that were political. 

Your anecdotal evidence isn't really relevant to the point, neither is mine.

 

Right, so you were just parroting a tired old right-wing trope. The fact that educators and the educated tend to be more liberal isn't the same as educators and admin being "far-left political activists." A city like Austin, TX isn't more liberal than a lot of other parts of Texas because of the left-wing activism of the professors and administrators at UT. It's a center of education and diversity, and it's the education and exposure to diversity itself that tends to make one more liberal.

There's a reason why Trump's base is dominated by uneducated white males, and why Republicans always look to cut funding for education in order to pay for their tax cuts for the rich. They attack teachers, saying "They're teaching Marxism in the schools!" Well, yeah, but they're teaching fascism too. They're not advocating for either. They're simply educating their students to help them understand history and prepare them to navigate the real world. Sadly, not everyone gets the lesson. 

[Zavala 1384]

1 minute ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Right, so you were just parroting a tired old right-wing trope. The fact that educators and the educated tend to be more liberal isn't the same as educators and admin being "far-left political activists." A city like Austin, TX isn't more liberal than a lot of other parts of Texas because of the left-wing activism of the professors and administrators at UT. It's a center of education and diversity, and it's the education and exposure to diversity itself that tends to make one more liberal.

There's a reason why Trump's base is dominated by uneducated white males, and why Republicans always look to cut funding for education in order to pay for their tax cuts for the rich. They attack teachers, saying "They're teaching Marxism in the schools!" Well, yeah, but they're teaching fascism too. They're not advocating for either. They're simply educating their students to help them understand history and prepare them to navigate the real world. Sadly, not everyone gets the lesson. 

Read the links I've posted. They have seen growth in self admitted far left professors just from 2008 to 2010. 

Here are the data for the new survey and the prior survey:

	2010-11	2007-8
Far left	12.4%	8.8%
Liberal	50.3%	47.0%
Middle of the road	25.4%	28.4%
Conservative	11.5%	15.2%
Far right	0.4%	0.7%

https://econjwatch.org/articles/faculty-voter-registration-in-economics-history-journalism-communications-law-and-psychology

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/10/24/survey-finds-professors-already-liberal-have-moved-further-left

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-09-17/colleges-have-way-too-many-liberal-professors

https://www.dailysignal.com/2016/01/14/liberal-professors-outnumber-conservative-faculty-5-to-1-academics-explain-why-this-matters/

You can put me on ignore since I'm just an uneducated Russian bot. Thanks.

[FondrenRoad 4378]

1 minute ago, Zavala said:

Read the links I've posted. They have seen growth in self admitted far left professors just from 2008 to 2010. 

Here are the data for the new survey and the prior survey:

	2010-11	2007-8
Far left	12.4%	8.8%
Liberal	50.3%	47.0%
Middle of the road	25.4%	28.4%
Conservative	11.5%	15.2%
Far right	0.4%	0.7%

https://econjwatch.org/articles/faculty-voter-registration-in-economics-history-journalism-communications-law-and-psychology

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/10/24/survey-finds-professors-already-liberal-have-moved-further-left

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-09-17/colleges-have-way-too-many-liberal-professors

https://www.dailysignal.com/2016/01/14/liberal-professors-outnumber-conservative-faculty-5-to-1-academics-explain-why-this-matters/

You can put me on ignore since I'm just an uneducated Russian bot. Thanks.

There were probably more conservative educators back when conservative wasn't synonymous with greed.  Modern American conservatism is practically defined by the statement, "I am going to get mine and fuck everyone else."

So why would you expect people who see value only in wealth accumulation to work in non-profit endeavors?  Especially since those endeavors occur at places they are also actively working to defund.

 

 

[jimmyjazz 45560]

15 minutes ago, Zavala said:

Read the links I've posted. They have seen growth in self admitted far left professors just from 2008 to 2010. 

Here are the data for the new survey and the prior survey:

	2010-11	2007-8
Far left	12.4%	8.8%
Liberal	50.3%	47.0%
Middle of the road	25.4%	28.4%
Conservative	11.5%	15.2%
Far right	0.4%	0.7%

https://econjwatch.org/articles/faculty-voter-registration-in-economics-history-journalism-communications-law-and-psychology

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2012/10/24/survey-finds-professors-already-liberal-have-moved-further-left

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-09-17/colleges-have-way-too-many-liberal-professors

https://www.dailysignal.com/2016/01/14/liberal-professors-outnumber-conservative-faculty-5-to-1-academics-explain-why-this-matters/

You can put me on ignore since I'm just an uneducated Russian bot. Thanks.

The very first thing I'd ask if presented with those results is "can I get a few decades worth of data"?

Honestly, those numbers mean nothing in a vacuum.  They could portend a shift, or they could just be swamped by random noise.

[Nolacycling 893]

7 hours ago, Js1 said:

QFT. 

It's not a vocational school and it shouldn't be a diploma mill.  

It is for engineering. Not referring to diploma mill comment. 

[WhatTheBuck 28713]

When you're on a ship sailing off to sea, it might appear that the shore is moving away from you, but it's not. It's where it's always been. You're the one who's moving. That's what's happening with the GOP as they move farther and farther to the right. To them George Will looks like a socialist now. 

[David Dennison 18661]

1 hour ago, Zavala said:

What data? Post the link and I'll read it. I'm sure there's some out there but what you posted sourced broken links and other secondary sources. 

I did. 

[The People’s Elbow 707]

7 hours ago, Foosters said:

lol, zavala didn't go to college

That’s not true at all as made evident by the fact it’s right there in the name: Austin Community College. 

[Clintonaldo 2571]

Another day and another L for the wackos on Candy Mountain. 

[Nivek 16861]

Nice projection. 
Actually conservatives just take real majors or get into a trade and become productive, avoid and ignore these people. 
You can choose to ignore that it's destroying the colleges reputation.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/09/us/university-of-missouri-enrollment-protests-fallout.html

Engineering apparently is less rigorous than I though. Look at this fucking idiot. He idolizes joe the plumber.

[Nivek 16861]

Fascists are always deeply opposed to education.  In a completely unrelated matter, I wonder what's with all these conservatives suddenly hating colleges so much.

Facts. They hate facts. History already has demonstrated they are frauds and their stupidity of confusing conservative/liberal with a political party is just another data point. Most don’t even understand what socialism, communism, or fascism is, yet that doesn’t stop them from yapping about it.

[Nivek 16861]

Fascists are always deeply opposed to education.  In a completely unrelated matter, I wonder what's with all these conservatives suddenly hating colleges so much.

Facts. They hate facts. History already has demonstrated they are frauds and their stupidity of confusing conservative/liberal with a political party is just another data point. Most don’t even understand what socialism, communism, or fascism is, yet that doesn’t stop them from yapping about it.

[TwiceHorn 31283]

On 6/9/2019 at 11:44 AM, David Dennison said:

No, it won't. They're also insured.

I suppose you can get insurance for negligent defamation, but I'm thinking if it were intentional, no go.  Curiously, the school is probably liable under respondeat superior, which would not apply if intentional by the VP, at least under the common-law rules. So Oberlin may have a choice:  call it intentional and they aren't liable, or call it negligent and have insurance coverage.

Or, I suppose, the actions of a vice president may be imputed to the organization.

[Pancho 44487]

14 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

I agree college shouldn’t be a vocational school (or at least doesn’t have to be if you don’t want it to be), but the trend of core curriculums is going in the wrong direction.  

There is way too much remedial English composition you should have learned in high school, no true requirement for philosophy, statistics, and logic courses that you can’t get around with bullshit substitutes, no real humanities/western civ requirement that you can’t get around, history courses that are obscurely specialized and narrowly focused, blow off math and science for non-STEM majors, and a whole catalog of bullshit newfangled soft science courses that students are permitted to use to replace traditional core courses.

Look at UT’s “core” curriculum, which includes a million different options and combinations and countless ways for a student to avoid traditional core courses.  Just as one example, core mathematics  requirements can apparently be satisfied by Advertising, African and African Diaspora Studies, Sociology, and other similar non-math courses.

https://catalog.utexas.edu/general-information/academic-policies-and-procedures/core-curriculum/

 

By all means, universities should give students a well-rounded education.  But that means a more standard curriculum and harder courses, not letting in everyone with a pulse who can get a student loan, babysitting them for 4 years, and letting them take whatever worthless nonsense they want so they can be processed through with a diploma. 

Well those African Studies and Sociology classes are dealing with Stats and Quantitative Data.  The math in that alone is annoying as fuck, so if you're taking Stats to fulfill your math requirement then you are fucked up.  

As far as remedial and developmental classes, those are needed because students aren't learning what they should in middle and high schools.  

core curriculum in college in Texas is fucked up because they (THECB and leg) don't give colleges and universities a bigger say in what should be in the curriculum.  

[Zavala 1384]

https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/06/oberlin-college-mass-email-criticizing-jurors-could-influence-punitive-damages-hearing-in-gibsons-bakery-case/

Quote

Oberlin College mass email criticizing Jurors could influence Punitive Damages Hearing in Gibson’s Bakery case

 

[Asithappens 974]

There are raging dipshits on both sides of the political aisle, and these buffoons at Oberlin appear to have the dipshit tag down quite well.

And some will use these dipshits to excuse/validate/justify Trump.

They're doing it wrong, imo.

[Zavala 1384]

Just now, Asithappens said:

There are raging dipshits on both sides of the political aisle, and these buffoons at Oberlin appear to have the dipshit tag down quite well.

And some will use these dipshits to excuse/validate/justify Trump.

They're doing it wrong, imo.

There's 50 other threads for your Trump derangement syndrome, go play in those.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

34 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Well those African Studies and Sociology classes are dealing with Stats and Quantitative Data.  The math in that alone is annoying as fuck, so if you're taking Stats to fulfill your math requirement then you are fucked up.  

As far as remedial and developmental classes, those are needed because students aren't learning what they should in middle and high schools.  

core curriculum in college in Texas is fucked up because they (THECB and leg) don't give colleges and universities a bigger say in what should be in the curriculum.  

If you need remedial courses how are you even getting in college ?  If I'm on a college admissions board, any school system that's sending kids who need remedial courses would see their acceptance rates drop precipitously.

[Pancho 44487]

2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

If you need remedial courses how are you even getting in college ?  If I'm on a college admissions board, any school system that's sending kids who need remedial courses would see their acceptance rates drop precipitously.

I teach at a community college.  We have an open-door policy when it comes to admissions. 

And I've seen plenty of students who start off in Developmental classes end up with great GPAs and get into good 4-year universities. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

7 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I teach at a community college.  We have an open-door policy when it comes to admissions. 

And I've seen plenty of students who start off in Developmental classes end up with great GPAs and get into good 4-year universities. 

Yeah community college I can see that, but when you're dropping $25-$50K, and you need remedial courses your dollars are not being spent wisely.  That's exactly a role CC's should fill.  

We have a neighborhood family that's home schooled their 7 kids, and they were all in the CC program by their sophomore years of HS.  They all finished at 4 year state schools with engineersing degrees, nursing degrees, etc., and saved boat loads of cash thru that route.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Onboard 2.0

[Johnny Sack 8397]

19 hours ago, WhatTheBuck said:

When you're on a ship sailing off to sea, it might appear that the shore is moving away from you, but it's not. It's where it's always been. You're the one who's moving. That's what's happening with the GOP as they move farther and farther to the right. To them George Will looks like a socialist now. 

Where do you guys come up with this bullshit?

[Asithappens 974]

On 6/10/2019 at 11:08 AM, Foosters said:

lol, zavala didn't go to college

Water is wet.

I didn't mean to insult water....

[David Dennison 18661]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Where do you guys come up with this bullshit?

This is excellent news for progressives.