Europe has too many Tourists - Bloomberg

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.

On the Yosemite Valley floor a few years ago...must have been 10k Chinese tourists in various buses. 20 years ago, not that many Chinese could afford to travel. Now...they are fully involved in the conspicuous consumption phase of early capitalism. Hell, we were in a “First Nations” shop in Montreal, and a group of probably 40-50 Chinese tourists were grabbing literal armloads of furs, and jamming them I to wooden crates to ship home.

And in Europe, newly “wealthy” Russians are part of the mix. Seeing more and more of them.

When more of the world can afford to travel, more of the world travels. And it doesn’t take a lot to overwhelm some places.

Nuke Russa and place tarrifs on Chinese travelers...  Problem solved and European travel is back just for the ugly American.   

[Jack Straw 2954]

12 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

A couple more for places like Venice and Dubrovnik, tax the shit out of day trippers.  Not staying in the place overnight.  $100.  Eliminate cruise ships in these places.  

BAN FUCKING SELFIE STICKS.  

 

All of this.  Better yet, ban all tourists from Asian countries. All problems solved. 

[Bateshorn 9928]

I adored Croatia, and found plenty of space, and relaxing environments in Zadar, Split, and Istria, but holy fuck Dubrovnik was a beating between 10-4.  After the cruise ship people returned to their boats, it was lovely at night.  

I read somewhere that only 100-200 people actually habitat permanently in the old city.  It's essentially a living museum.  I'm sure Venice is the same way.

[Bateshorn 9928]

34 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.

On the Yosemite Valley floor a few years ago...must have been 10k Chinese tourists in various buses. 20 years ago, not that many Chinese could afford to travel. Now...they are fully involved in the conspicuous consumption phase of early capitalism. Hell, we were in a “First Nations” shop in Montreal, and a group of probably 40-50 Chinese tourists were grabbing literal armloads of furs, and jamming them I to wooden crates to ship home.

And in Europe, newly “wealthy” Russians are part of the mix. Seeing more and more of them.

When more of the world can afford to travel, more of the world travels. And it doesn’t take a lot to overwhelm some places.

My wife and I were in a bar in the Hue Airport a couple of years ago and a large chinese family just took over the place: Shots, beer, running the wait staff ragged.  They had money to spend and they spent it.  It was both impressive in it's consumption and it made me realize how America is old world now.  Also, the Chinese we experienced traveling were fly over country fat.

[52-80 19205]

46 minutes ago, Nueces River Rat said:

To a point you are correct.   But it depends on the cruise line as well.   I've pretty much sworn off wanting to ever do another cruise on one of these companies (like Carnival) which are basically floating amusement parks on the water and with that,  clientele who act like  they are spending a day at one of those amusement parks.    But here in the future when my wife and I start doing our empty nest travel plans in few years from now ,  I wouldn't mind doing a few on some of the smaller cruise lines which cater to what will be our age group and are intended for cultural experiences vs the stop at Señor Frogs or Margarita Ville at a Caribbean tourist trap.   Something like Ponant , Seaborne,  or Viking where they can take you to places that are easier to get my boat vs land or air and might stay up to two days in port.   And because they try to maximize port time, the less time you have a sea.    So I can see us doing a few in Asia, maybe in Europe (Scandnavia) and maybe South America.  

 

https://us.ponant.com

Thats exactly what I expect a ponant salesperson to say

[Loco 3753]

24 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

All of this.  Better yet, ban all tourists from Asian countries. All problems solved. 

Wow.   That's some small minded racist shit right there.

[Brisketexan 105170]

It was both impressive in it's consumption and it made me realize how America is old world now. 

After our experience in the store in Montreal, we had that exact conversation.  They were consuming with the gluttony of brand new money.  It was so overwhelming in the shop that my wife looked at me and said "I can't be in here with this, let's go."  It was consumption for the sake of consumption -- they weren't looking at a fur coat that they really liked, deciding to buy it, then carefully packing it for travel back home.  They were literally grabbing armfuls of coats off of racks and shoving them into crates quickly - it almost looked like some sort of game show prize of "you get to keep all the shit you can cram in a box in 90 seconds."

Oh, and as for the Russians....here's some grabs from a couple of years ago.  A comfortable outfit to hike around rocky trails at an Armenian monastary, and the obligatory 5 minutes in front of the Mona Lisa, trying to get the perfect selfie angle:

 

 

[Ted Lange 16110]

Wonder what a ban on taking pictures inside  would do to crowds at some of the museums and cathedrals....

[phdhorn 6224]

Nobody goes to Europe any more... it's always too crowded. [/Thanks, Yogi!]

Actually I've gone to Europe about as much as I want to (except for skiing, and that's rarely in a city).  It's nice and all, but never wanted to get back to the States more with each trip.

Only thing left on my Euro bucket list is the Mediterranean coast of Spain and into NW Africa (which, well, to tell the truth, isn't in Europe unless the plates merge in the next year).  My pipe dream is to travel the northern rim of Africa over to Egypt.  Perhaps I can enlist as a for-hour-hire fake terrorist or something.

[TornACL 7722]

3 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

After our experience in the store in Montreal, we had that exact conversation.  They were consuming with the gluttony of brand new money.  It was so overwhelming in the shop that my wife looked at me and said "I can't be in here with this, let's go."  It was consumption for the sake of consumption -- they weren't looking at a fur coat that they really liked, deciding to buy it, then carefully packing it for travel back home.  They were literally grabbing armfuls of coats off of racks and shoving them into crates quickly - it almost looked like some sort of game show prize of "you get to keep all the shit you can cram in a box in 90 seconds."

Oh, and as for the Russians....here's some grabs from a couple of years ago.  A comfortable outfit to hike around rocky trails at an Armenian monastary, and the obligatory 5 minutes in front of the Mona Lisa, trying to get the perfect selfie angle:

 

 

 

These stupid assholes do this standing right in the middle of main thoroughfares, too. Their boyfriend/friend/etc. will stand 15 feet away with the phone/camera and then the budding supermodel will stand there for 10 minutes waiting for the perfect light, perfect hair, perfect pose. And they expect the growing crowd of people to just stand there and wait until they get their picture just right. In that case, it's fun to just walk right in between camera and model. Fuck off, you're not that pretty anyway. You want to be oblivious to the world around you, I'll be oblivious to you. 

Of course this is harder to do when someone is taking a selfie, in that case you just walk behind them and stop and stand to either photobomb them or ruin their moment. 

Edited June 11, 2019 by TornACL

[gecko 1104]

23 hours ago, DaysOff said:

Why would anyone go to Europe in the summer.

Business is the only reason...I'm paying for premium business class on United next week. 

You're welcome.

[DaysOff 7959]

Thank you.

And if it's okay with my wife I'd like to knock the bottom out of selfie mona lisa Russian chick.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19126]

2 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

Wonder what a ban on taking pictures inside  would do to crowds at some of the museums and cathedrals....

Not a lot.  There is a ban on taking pictures in the Sistine Chapel, and it is absolutely packed.  I like that Versailles banned selfie sticks inside the Chateau.  

I think some of it is also a difference in social norms.  I almost had my nose broken in the Louvre by a Chinese lady pushing her way to the front to get a photo of the Mona Lisa. I was waiting patiently just to be able to see it (I was in no hurry), and they do not think twice about invading personal space.  

And those that talked about conspicuous consumption are right. 

[Telegraph_it 3358]

Portugal did not have that many Asian tourists and as a result did not seem too crowded. 

When your country has a billion odd people you are going to saturate areas. 

When of my small joys in life is watching the Asian tour groups in Yellowstone. They act like the national park is an amusement park. 

[Asithappens 974]

On 6/10/2019 at 10:03 AM, Ted Lange said:

 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-06-09/europe-s-top-vacation-sites-need-options-to-fight-overcrowding

Hey Bloomberg, there's this thing called "economics", you know pricing and shit?

Supply and demand? 

Check it out. If a resource is in danger of being over-exposed, then, just maybe, charge more for it? 

Yeah, life sucks. 

[Jack Straw 2954]

4 hours ago, Loco said:

Wow.   That's some small minded racist shit right there.

is it? the universal commonality I have experienced in the 25+ countries I have traveled to for pleasure in the last 8 years or so is how awful the tourists from Asian countries behave, particularly the Chinese.  Others have touched on it here, but they will straight up push an old lady out of the way to get to what they want to see, cut in clearly demarcated lines to go straight to the front, ram a stroller into you without saying a word, jam their selfie sticks straight in your face, hop fences to get in prohibited areas to get pictures of themselves taken, take videos and pictures where there are signs prohibiting it everywhere,  it goes on and on. the first experience I have with one who has any courtesy, manners, or sense of self-awareness, their surroundings, or local customs, will be my first.  what I also find bizarre is how they walk up to a painting or piece of art, snap a picture with their phone or iPad and move on to the next one without even looking at the piece itself, even for a second, ad infinitum.  couldn’t they just ... buy a book, or look at it on the internet? wtf.  

[TornACL 7722]

4 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

is it? the universal commonality I have experienced in the 25+ countries I have traveled to for pleasure in the last 8 years or so is how awful the tourists from Asian countries behave, particularly the Chinese.  Others have touched on it here, but they will straight up push an old lady out of the way to get to what they want to see, cut in clearly demarcated lines to go straight to the front, ram a stroller into you without saying a word, jam their selfie sticks straight in your face, hop fences to get in prohibited areas to get pictures of themselves taken, take videos and pictures where there are signs prohibiting it everywhere,  it goes on and on. the first experience I have with one who has any courtesy, manners, or sense of self-awareness, their surroundings, or local customs, will be my first.  what I also find bizarre is how they walk up to a painting or piece of art, snap a picture with their phone or iPad and move on to the next one without even looking at the piece itself, even for a second, ad infinitum.  couldn’t they just ... buy a book, or look at it on the internet? wtf.  

To be fair, most tourists are completely oblivious fucking morons.

My favorite time killer at the airport is to watch couples having public meltdowns. When people watching, you'll often see people struggling with tasks at the airport that even an 8 year old should be able to manage. It makes you wonder how these people successfully navigate a trip to the grocery store when back home in Podunk, Kentucky.

A lot of people can't handle the break in routine that a vacation provides, and they become completely useless beings once out of their element.

 

[texasdago 7575]

Yup.  Greeks keep telling me that Santorini is overrun with Chinese tour groups.  Its apparently an issue now.  It was an issue many years ago in Rome - probably still is but I avoid my family in Rome like the plague.  Sorry... not sorry.

[Bateshorn 9928]

The line cutting is not unique to the Chinese.  There are plenty of cultures that do the "clueless" line cut, playing on English politeness not to object. 

I saw a German woman literally stop a group of Indian tourists who where attempting to cut the que, hold out a hand and bark "Nein!"  It was glorious.

[texasdago 7575]

3 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

The line cutting is not unique to the Chinese.  There are plenty of cultures that do the "clueless" line cut, playing on English politeness not to object. 

I saw a German woman literally stop a group of Indian tourists who where attempting to cut the que, hold out a hand and bark "Nein!"  It was glorious.

She would be handy to have in some of lift lines in Val Gardena... I've seen some interesting behavior from German skiers.

[Bateshorn 9928]

Well, I almost commented that it was ironic, because Germans in groups will cut a line with no fucks given. They don't even do the clueless bit, just straight up "I'm next".  Italians bum rushing literally everything is always fun.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Bateshorn

[Loco 3753]

16 minutes ago, Jack Straw said:

is it? the universal commonality I have experienced in the 25+ countries I have traveled to for pleasure in the last 8 years or so is how awful the tourists from Asian countries behave, particularly the Chinese.  Others have touched on it here, but they will straight up push an old lady out of the way to get to what they want to see, cut in clearly demarcated lines to go straight to the front, ram a stroller into you without saying a word, jam their selfie sticks straight in your face, hop fences to get in prohibited areas to get pictures of themselves taken, take videos and pictures where there are signs prohibiting it everywhere,  it goes on and on. the first experience I have with one who has any courtesy, manners, or sense of self-awareness, their surroundings, or local customs, will be my first.  what I also find bizarre is how they walk up to a painting or piece of art, snap a picture with their phone or iPad and move on to the next one without even looking at the piece itself, even for a second, ad infinitum.  couldn’t they just ... buy a book, or look at it on the internet? wtf.  

Yes, Yes it is.  I could literally write the same generic shit about Germans, Dutch, French and American tourists and anyone under 30.    

[Loco 3753]

2 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Well, I almost commented that it was ironic, because Germans in groups will cut a line with no fucks given. They don't even do the clueless bit, just straight up "I'm next".  Italians bum rushing literally everything is always fun.

I had a young Italian priest elbow me out of line at an Autogrill outside Florence.  I sat there with a what the fuck attitude, but what are you going to do, fight a priest?

[Brisketexan 105170]

I had a young Italian priest elbow me out of line at an Autogrill outside Florence.  I sat there with a what the fuck attitude, but what are you going to do, fight a priest?

Yes. Absolutely. Because then you’re the guy who beat up a priest, and nobody fucks with that guy.

[Loco 3753]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes. Absolutely. Because then you’re the guy who beat up a priest, and nobody fucks with that guy.

maybe, but I was in shock, what just happened?  What's a priest doing in robes doing at an Autogrill?  I guess they do drive, do they wear different clothes on their days off?  Maybe he's working?  It was all very strange.

Also, what if you lose?

 

[Jack Straw 2954]

22 minutes ago, Loco said:

Yes, Yes it is.  I could literally write the same generic shit about Germans, Dutch, French and American tourists and anyone under 30.    

No, no it isn’t.  I suppose you could “literally write” whatever you wanted to, but that does not mean that it would be true, or that it would match my experience, which is far from isolated, and ...  is actually true.  They are the worst group of tourists and travelers, by far.   (Not) sorry if you don’t like that.  

[Bateshorn 9928]

Meh, The Chinese tend to travel in groups, I find that annoying.  And they can be incredibly consumptive.  Having said that, compared to the prick attitude, aggressive physicality, and lack of respect for personal space that Germans generally show,  or completely hammered, obnoxious, chain smoking Russians, the Chinese are fine. 

Sometimes you realize whatever you came to see is overrun by a giant Chinese tour group, so you move on.  Ive got a photo from Ta Prom (the Tomb Raider Tree near Angkor Wat) where the area is a sea of Chinese taking pictures.  We went around the corner to the back side and were literally alone.  They rarely stray from the tour path, so they are easy to work around.  They aren't off the beaten path travelers, so if you are, it's not much of a problem. 

But, if you are at the Louvre to see the Mona Lisa, we probably don't travel the same way.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Bateshorn

[Brisketexan 105170]

25 minutes ago, Loco said:

maybe, but I was in shock, what just happened?  What's a priest doing in robes doing at an Autogrill?  I guess they do drive, do they wear different clothes on their days off?  Maybe he's working?  It was all very strange.

Also, what if you lose?

 

Fair question.  I took freshman algebra from a jesuit priest who was 6 foot 8, about 240 and built like a rock.  He'da kicked ALL our asses.

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

4 hours ago, Ted Lange said:

Wonder what a ban on taking pictures inside  would do to crowds at some of the museums and cathedrals....

I love this.  Start banning the use of unlicensed photography, which would have to include cellular devices.  If they see it, they confiscate it until you leave.

[babysdaddy 2725]

Was in Italy last Spring and the driver we had said he and the other drivers used to joke that they get 1 point for running over tourists in Florence and bonus points for running over Chinese tourists.  Specifically blamed it on cruise ships bringing them in.  

 

[Brisketexan 105170]

Just now, babysdaddy said:

Specifically blamed it on cruise ships bringing them in. 

That's how my fatass father in law "traveled the world" - various cruises where they'd disembark, get on a bus to famous site X, get out, take a picture, head back to boat.  He'd "been all over the world," but hadn't actually been anywhere.  Didn't get out and move among the people, experience life outside of the sanitized "excursions" to a handful of places.  Worthless fatass approach to travel.  

[gsoda3 3273]

6 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

They were consuming with the gluttony of brand new money.  It was so overwhelming in the shop that my wife looked at me and said "I can't be in here with this, let's go."  It was consumption for the sake of consumption -- they weren't looking at a fur coat that they really liked, deciding to buy it, then carefully packing it for travel back home.  They were literally grabbing armfuls of coats off of racks and shoving them into crates quickly - it almost looked like some sort of game show prize of "you get to keep all the shit you can cram in a box in 90 seconds."

 

 

believe it or not there's actually a rather large industry in purchasing luxury goods abroad in any quantity allowed and shipping it back to china (to reproduce and then to upsell).  they'll pay (or more often conscript) people already going overseas into buying store allowed limits at prada, LV, gucci, etc and then bringing them back to the mainland.  been going on for decades.  the first time i personally encountered anyone in the industry was the early 2000s.  still happens today.

[Brisketexan 105170]

7 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

 

believe it or not there's actually a rather large industry in purchasing luxury goods abroad in any quantity allowed and shipping it back to china (to reproduce and then to upsell).  they'll pay (or more often conscript) people already going overseas into buying store allowed limits at prada, LV, gucci, etc and then bringing them back to the mainland.  been going on for decades.  the first time i personally encountered anyone in the industry was the early 2000s.  still happens today.

Interesting.  The fact that they had multiple large, pre-marked wooden shipping crates sitting out ready to be filled seems consistent with that.  It was fucking obscene.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19126]

1 hour ago, Bateshorn said:

 

But, if you are at the Louvre to see the Mona Lisa, we probably don't travel the same way.

I feel like if you are in the Louvre for the first, time, you almost have to stop and see it at least once.  But now, I go to the Louvre and try and get lost in other sections of the museum.  I have been to the Louvre a number of times and tend to only go for the special exhibits now.  The Delacroix one was great, but then again, I love Delacroix.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19126]

12 minutes ago, gsoda3 said:

 

believe it or not there's actually a rather large industry in purchasing luxury goods abroad in any quantity allowed and shipping it back to china (to reproduce and then to upsell).  they'll pay (or more often conscript) people already going overseas into buying store allowed limits at prada, LV, gucci, etc and then bringing them back to the mainland.  been going on for decades.  the first time i personally encountered anyone in the industry was the early 2000s.  still happens today.

Oh I believe it.  But there has also been substantial crack down on that.  

[lemonlime 5503]

9 hours ago, Loco said:

Fucking cruise lines are the worst.  Cattle call for morons..  I'd like to "travel" in my own American consumer bubble and have "unique" manufactured experiences.  I don't want to learn the language or walk too much.  Can you have a big air conditioned bus wheel my fat ass from one tourist trap to another?  Awesome!  When's the buffet?  Wall-E

This.  I've been to Italy in July.  And it was crowded, but manageable.  Had to book things ahead of time, but didn't have any real problems due to crowds. On the other hand, I've been to Dubrovnik and Santorini in September, off season, but cruises go there.  Had to get the hell out during the day because it was wall to wall people.  Couldn't walk a few steps.  If they limited the number of people who could enter at ports from cruises for the day, it would make a huge difference.

[Abogado Peligroso 89]

8 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

To a point you are correct.   But it depends on the cruise line as well.   I've pretty much sworn off wanting to ever do another cruise on one of these companies (like Carnival) which are basically floating amusement parks on the water and with that,  clientele who act like  they are spending a day at one of those amusement parks.    But here in the future when my wife and I start doing our empty nest travel plans in few years from now ,  I wouldn't mind doing a few on some of the smaller cruise lines which cater to what will be our age group and are intended for cultural experiences vs the stop at Señor Frogs or Margarita Ville at a Caribbean tourist trap.   Something like Ponant , Seaborne,  or Viking where they can take you to places that are easier to get my boat vs land or air and might stay up to two days in port.   And because they try to maximize port time, the less time you have a sea.    So I can see us doing a few in Asia, maybe in Europe (Scandnavia) and maybe South America.  

 

https://us.ponant.com

You can’t go wrong with a Seabourn Mediterranean or Adriatic cruise.   I took my kids on the Encore in 2017 on a cruise from Rome to Barcelona and just the wife on one from Athens to Venice in 2018 and both were amazing.   Definitely not floating hotels filled with fat Americans.   

[DoobieWah 1451]

[Bateshorn 9928]

21 hours ago, PenelopeWitherspoon said:

I feel like if you are in the Louvre for the first, time, you almost have to stop and see it at least once.  But now, I go to the Louvre and try and get lost in other sections of the museum.  I have been to the Louvre a number of times and tend to only go for the special exhibits now.  The Delacroix one was great, but then again, I love Delacroix.

The Met is the same way.  I'll go up to NYC for something I really want to see, but I haven't been in the European section in ages.  But that's true of a lot of museums.  I've seen enough Monet for 5 lifetimes.  I'm usually more interested in the weird shit that nobody bothers to go see.

[SimonBolivar 10958]

The Chinese are absolutely the best at forcing their way in. I worked at Disney in college and there is an international program as well that live in the same complex as the American students. The buses back to our apartments at park closing time was a madhouse. You'd usually be left with a bus full of the Chinese who had seats and standing Japanese who were just good at getting on the bus without fighting. The ones who were usually left out were the students from the Southern US and the French who were too busy smoking to worry about catching the bus (I wish I had pics).

[Continental Op 3934]

4 hours ago, SimonBolivar said:

The Chinese are absolutely the best at forcing their way in. I worked at Disney in college and there is an international program as well that live in the same complex as the American students. The buses back to our apartments at park closing time was a madhouse. You'd usually be left with a bus full of the Chinese who had seats and standing Japanese who were just good at getting on the bus without fighting. The ones who were usually left out were the students from the Southern US and the French who were too busy smoking to worry about catching the bus (I wish I had pics).

You're supposed to take a car so you can give the Norway girls a ride home.  

[SimonBolivar 10958]

4 minutes ago, Continental Op said:

You're supposed to take a car so you can give the Norway girls a ride home.  

They were the golden standard. Seemed pretty open to anything too. There was a rumor that a few of them were turning tricks. Ahhh CP days.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19126]

8 hours ago, Bateshorn said:

The Met is the same way.  I'll go up to NYC for something I really want to see, but I haven't been in the European section in ages.  But that's true of a lot of museums.  I've seen enough Monet for 5 lifetimes.  I'm usually more interested in the weird shit that nobody bothers to go see.

I go to the Met for the Costume Institute Exhibit, or some of their other special exhibits, but you are right.  The rest of it is a beating.  

[52-80 19205]

how is anyone supposed to "see" the mona lisa anyway.  its a relatively tiny painting, behind a glass case, separate from viewer by a big barrier

 

just google the motherfucker to view it in higher definition

[gecko 1104]

Back in March the Chinese hordes my wife and I observed at the Blue Mountains west of Sydney (because there isn't that much east of Sydney) was so annoying it became comical to watch.

[Nueces River Rat 5539]

30 minutes ago, gecko said:

Back in March the Chinese hordes my wife and I observed at the Blue Mountains west of Sydney (because there isn't that much east of Sydney) was so annoying it became comical to watch.

So tell me.   Are the Chinese tourists sort of like the Japanese were back in the 70's and 80's with their 35mm cameras and all that jazz?   I haven't traveled much internationally in the last few years other than Mexico nor have I visted some better known USA tourist areas like DC or NYC.  

 

[Larry T. Spider 1746]

Ran across this on CNN:

Local newspaper Het Nieuwsblad reports that Bruges will no longer advertise or promote day trips to the city, and measures will be taken to cut back the number of cruise ships able to dock at Zeebrugge port. 

Currently, the port has room for five cruise ships at a time, but the number will be capped at two per day. Cruise companies will also be asked to dock during the week instead of on weekends, which will help spread the crowds out among more days.

[gecko 1104]

2 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

So tell me.   Are the Chinese tourists sort of like the Japanese were back in the 70's and 80's with their 35mm cameras and all that jazz?   I haven't traveled much internationally in the last few years other than Mexico nor have I visted some better known USA tourist areas like DC or NYC.  

 

It's the same issue - my wife and I have encountered them from Utah to Ireland to Australia:

1.  They travel in large groups and have no courtesy of others.  They will step into your photo shot without remorse
2.  They will walk in packs (sometimes 3-4 abreast) and take up a whole trail.  They are completely unprepared for the trail conditions therefore walk slowly and awkwardly
3.  They never stop talking...I've seen groups of 8 or more people and they are all talking at the same time.
 

[SimonBolivar 10958]

2 minutes ago, gecko said:

It's the same issue - my wife and I have encountered them from Utah to Ireland to Australia:

1.  They travel in large groups and have no courtesy of others.  They will step into your photo shot without remorse
2.  They will walk in packs (sometimes 3-4 abreast) and take up a whole trail.  They are completely unprepared for the trail conditions therefore walk slowly and awkwardly
3.  They never stop talking...I've seen groups of 8 or more people and they are all talking at the same time.
 

I saw this exact group in The Great Smoky Mountains a few months ago. They were not dressed for the hike at all, but they did smile at us which was nice.

[Js1 85449]

20 minutes ago, gecko said:

It's the same issue - my wife and I have encountered them from Utah to Ireland to Australia:

1.  They travel in large groups and have no courtesy of others.  They will step into your photo shot without remorse
2.  They will walk in packs (sometimes 3-4 abreast) and take up a whole trail.  They are completely unprepared for the trail conditions therefore walk slowly and awkwardly
3.  They never stop talking...I've seen groups of 8 or more people and they are all talking at the same time.
 

Last December, a giant group of Chinakids on the Charles Bridge, parents were on a boat on the Vltava .

Sustained 15 min of like 60 kids screaming at the parents.