Oberlin College hit with $11M judgement in libel/defamation lawsuit

[TwiceHorn 31472]

1 minute ago, BurntEyes said:

Whoosh... Confirmed I knew what Levant was.. still missing it...

Aggy in Qatar or whatever.  UAE.

[Parliament 14260]

1 hour ago, ajax said:

They should just double the tuition, but only for white students.

And cis-genders.

[utee94 15823]

1 hour ago, Parliament said:

And cis-genders.

I don't even know that this means.

I am comfortable with that.

And you better believe I am NOT looking it up on the googletrons.

[TahoeHorn 107]

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/o-oberlin-my-oberlin/

[Trey3216 15346]

51 minutes ago, TahoeHorn said:

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/o-oberlin-my-oberlin/

Saw the title of the article and now I can't get Glen Campbell out of my head.  

[Chewbacca 7779]

https://www.commentarymagazine.com/articles/o-oberlin-my-oberlin/

That is a good read.

[ajax 2617]

Quote

When Officer Victor Ortiz got there, he later testified, “We saw two young ladies standing over [Gibson] and throwing haymakers…The two women would stand over him and kick him, and then crouch down and throw punches. As we got closer, we could see [Gibson] on his back, with the male [Aladin] on top of him and punching him.”

Here's what the flyer said:

Quote

A member of our community was assaulted by the owner of this establishment yesterday. A nineteen y/o young man was apprehended and choked by Allyn Gibson…. The young man, who was accompanied by 2 friends was choked until the 2 forced Allyn to let go. After The young man was free, Allyn chased him. . . tackled him and restrained him again until Oberlin police arrived. The 3 were racially profiled on the scene. They were arrested without being questioned, asked their names, or read their rights.

lol

 

But you know what? Gibson is still white so...he's a Nazi.

[alincoln 2371]

The most stunning revelation of the article is that a black male student who graduated from Phillips Andover had to go to fucking Oberlin for college.

[clapclapclap 9000]

25 minutes ago, ajax said:

But you know what? Gibson is still white so...he's a Nazi.

Impressive, you've learned to speak fluent Cloak Room.  

[phdhorn 6224]

1 hour ago, clapclapclap said:

Impressive, you've learned to speak fluent Cloak Room.  

Well, mostly... all he needs now is the idiotic, fucktard ad hominem to anyone who disagrees with his opinion.

[BabaYaga 15298]

Obligatory:

"get woke, go broke"

[ShaggyBevo RIP 3868]

5 hours ago, alincoln said:

The most stunning revelation of the article is that a black male student who graduated from Phillips Andover had to go to fucking Oberlin for college.

You do know it is a highly respected music college? You have to have talent to get in. Every orchestral/symphonic piece you've every heard performed by an American orchestra/symphony has Oberlin graduates playing.

Edited August 29, 2019 by ShaggyBevo RIP

[Beau Vine 54230]

1 hour ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

You do know it is a highly respected music college? You have to have talent to get in. Every orchestral/symphonic piece you've every heard performed by an American orchestra/symphony has Oberlin graduates playing.

Are any of the Foo Fighters from Oberlin?  No?  Well, then fuck Oberlin.

[TwiceHorn 31472]

6 hours ago, alincoln said:

The most stunning revelation of the article is that a black male student who graduated from Phillips Andover had to go to fucking Oberlin for college.

No wonder he was angry.  Must be dumb as a stump too.

[TwiceHorn 31472]

1 hour ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

You do know it is a highly respected music college? You have to have talent to get in. Every orchestral/symphonic piece you've every heard performed by an American orchestra/symphony has Oberlin graduates playing.

While true, there's no reason to believe that Mr. Aladin is a music student.

[RDCanecutter 26443]

Why didn't Mr. Aladin just ask the genie for wine.

[phdhorn 6224]

2 hours ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

You do know it is a highly respected music college? You have to have talent to get in. Every orchestral/symphonic piece you've every heard performed by an American orchestra/symphony has Oberlin graduates playing.

Technically it's its own conservatory, with a separate application process (except for the Double Degree Program - I'm not shitting you - Double Degree major, probably thought up by Dean Wormer, since Knowledge is Good), although it belongs to the college as a whole.

And trust me as a former music major, the worst fucking thing you can do as a young, strapping heterosexual male is go to a music conservatory.  You'll kill yourself within a week.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

Late jumping into this story but I don’t understand the logic that even ruining this bakery is worth tens of millions of dollars. And I don’t see how the school is liable outside of an employee stepping outside her job duties.

I get that a college or corporation has some level of responsibility for an employee’s action but that responsibility isn’t infinite. 

And anger at “woke” students and school admins doesn’t justify $44m.  I don’t even see how this will teach anyone a lesson. Or I guess the lesson will be that every college employee across the nation will to attend a session about how to avoid this situation and sign a statement absolving the college if they do.

[ChickenSandwich 9836]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Late jumping into this story but I don’t understand the logic that even ruining this bakery is worth tens of millions of dollars. And I don’t see how the school is liable outside of an employee stepping outside her job duties.

I get that a college or corporation has some level of responsibility for an employee’s action but that responsibility isn’t infinite. 

And anger at “woke” students and school admins doesn’t justify $44m.  I don’t even see how this will teach anyone a lesson. Or I guess the lesson will be that every college employee across the nation will to attend a session about how to avoid this situation and sign a statement absolving the college if they do.

Funny. That was the school’s defense. This business isn’t worth shit so who cares. 

Provided employment for generations of family, students and townies. 

The school administrators acted like B Movie villains and deserve every penny of that judgement. Limousine liberals just dying for a chance to right an injustice even if completely made up. Just like our current media. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by ChickenSandwich

[AUS-97HORN 11763]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Late jumping into this story but I don’t understand the logic that even ruining this bakery is worth tens of millions of dollars. And I don’t see how the school is liable outside of an employee stepping outside her job duties.

I get that a college or corporation has some level of responsibility for an employee’s action but that responsibility isn’t infinite. 

And anger at “woke” students and school admins doesn’t justify $44m.  I don’t even see how this will teach anyone a lesson. Or I guess the lesson will be that every college employee across the nation will to attend a session about how to avoid this situation and sign a statement absolving the college if they do.

Im glad you werent on the jury

 

how about you start on page one, and read the fucking thread from page 1 and then read all the linked articles.  I mean i know thats probably too much time for you to invest yourself into reading about a horrible situation, but you really need to do that before coming on here and acting like you dont understand why the verdict was just. 

 

This isnt a case of ONE employee of the school going after the school.  its a case of the entire senior management team of the school punishing a small business for having the temerity of denying an underage black kid to buy alcohol, combined with then shoplifting, and then sponsoring a Dean-led jihad against the bakery encouraging students to protest a fake-news racist problem.   They literally have emails and texts from school officials asking each other how they can hurt the bakery the most by cancelling their 100-year old relationship on providing baked goods to the school.    That is so far out of their jurisdiction as a school administrator to handle a petty arrest (which btw, police records show that something like a 3 year period around 40 white people were arrested for shoplifting, 6 black and 2 asian.   which matches the racial makeup of the whole city almost to the percentage). 

[BabaYaga 15298]

Oberlin orchestrated a campaign to smear a private enterprise because they were so enamored with their own righteousness, snuffing out some tiny vestige of oppression within their midst, even if they had to fabricate that vestige. 

This is the M.O. of lynch mobs. Launch an accusation, evidence completely optional, that fits into a narrative that reinforces the moral superiority of those in power and keeps minority opinion squelched out of fear.

Jury awards that hurt are going to be the only thing that stops made up grievances that damage ordinary people just going about their lives.

I can't imagine the nightmare of a family going about its business, stewarding a 130 year old family legacy, only to become the target of a SJW social media mob of students and then have the largest institution your business has served for that 130 years to side with that mob of 18-22 year olds. 

[SDG 3319]

2 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Late jumping into this story but I don’t understand the logic that even ruining this bakery is worth tens of millions of dollars. And I don’t see how the school is liable outside of an employee stepping outside her job duties.

I get that a college or corporation has some level of responsibility for an employee’s action but that responsibility isn’t infinite. 

And anger at “woke” students and school admins doesn’t justify $44m.  I don’t even see how this will teach anyone a lesson. Or I guess the lesson will be that every college employee across the nation will to attend a session about how to avoid this situation and sign a statement absolving the college if they do.

This is probably where you should have quit typing...  Read the rest of the thread and look up the definition of punitive damages then comeback with your thoughts. 

[TwiceHorn 31472]

The compensatory award was 11 million, the rest was punitives.  When you consider a business that had existed for a century, with continuous, ongoing family involvement to the present, and consider a loss of business into the unknown future, $11 million isn't so unreasonable.

You can quibble about the effectiveness of punitive damages, but they are always a multiple of compensatory damages.  They got trimmed to $14 million because of limits.

As I recall, and there's a very solid FAQ linked above, Oberlin wasn't vicariously liable for the actions of their students, they were found directly liable as having published the defamatory communications (in that case, vicariously liable for the acts of employees).

[Brisketexan 105142]

9 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Oberlin orchestrated a campaign to smear a private enterprise because they were so enamored with their own righteousness, snuffing out some tiny vestige of oppression within their midst, even if they had to fabricate that vestige. 

This is the M.O. of lynch mobs. Launch an accusation, evidence completely optional, that fits into a narrative that reinforces the moral superiority of those in power and keeps minority opinion squelched out of fear.

Jury awards that hurt are going to be the only thing that stops made up grievances that damage ordinary people just going about their lives.

I can't imagine the nightmare of a family going about its business, stewarding a 130 year old family legacy, only to become the target of a SJW social media mob of students and then have the largest institution your business has served for that 130 years to side with that mob of 18-22 year olds. 

I don't disagree with this take.  It's kind of what jury awards, and exemplary damages, are made for.  A civil penalty, enforced as a function of due process and a verdict rendered by a jury, is an essential part of our social and governmental mechanism for punishing bad behavior.

What I DO wonder is how many of y'all happily crowing about Oberlin getting popped for a jillion dollars ALSO regularly bitch about "runaway juries" and "lawsuit abuse" and such?

[TwiceHorn 31472]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

I get that a college or corporation has some level of responsibility for an employee’s action but that responsibility isn’t infinite. 

 

Actually, yes it is.  An employer is liable for the torts of its employee acting within the scope of his/her employment to the full extent of the damage.  That is pretty generally the law of most states, at least as pertains to non-intentional torts. Defamation is an oddball there, though, as to whether it is an "intentional tort" or not.

And I don't see much of an argument that those employees encouraging the students were acting outside the scope of their employment.  They did it all "on the clock," using university facilities, etc.  Had they acted to restrain the students, rather than encourage, aid, and abet them, I don't believe anyone would argue that that was outside the scope of their employment.

Using lawsuits to regulate behavior like this can be a clumsy device.  However, I think it's preferable in a lot of cases like this one, to trying to legislate some solution.

Edited August 30, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[AUS-97HORN 11763]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't disagree with this take.  It's kind of what jury awards, and exemplary damages, are made for.  A civil penalty, enforced as a function of due process and a verdict rendered by a jury, is an essential part of our social and governmental mechanism for punishing bad behavior.

What I DO wonder is how many of y'all happily crowing about Oberlin getting popped for a jillion dollars ALSO regularly bitch about "runaway juries" and "lawsuit abuse" and such?

 

Bullshit Brisket.  and you fucking know it.    you also know why a lot of people are crowing about the verdict, and the cloak room is over there and you know that too.

did you read the article posted yesterday by the retired professor? his was a pretty interesting take showing that the school on multiple occasions refused to listen to their longer tenured professors telling them that going after the bakery was a bad idea.

Now is it worth $14M.... not sure, but considering that a 100+ year old business was basically destroyed because the school admins decided that this was a good time to deflect from their own internal issues and vent student anger over the election to something other than the school itself is absolutely a reason to punish the school when the testimony by multiple people, including multiple people of a race other than white indicating most of the protests were being led by the Dean of students- off campus mind you, and the Dean literally handed one of the School-published fliers that they printed to a fucking reporter. 

The school published the libelous information, and the dean led the charge on 2 of the protests, and the dean cancelled the 3rd protest because as her own emails show, the bakery was actually being supported MORE than before.    if this was a student led protest, why did they only attend the 2protests that were led by the dean, and not show up on their own for the 3rd when the dean complained that the bakery wasnt being impacted enough?

[BabaYaga 15298]

This sucks for the bakery, I can't imagine being in that situation.  They're probably hating this entire stupid scenario.  This is a 100+yr old generational business that went into the shitter.  

The money will help, but with what? The relationship with one of the biggest customers is over. The reputation with students will never be the same. Regardless of court findings, the campus gossip rumor mill will still put this shadow over them indefinitely.

All because the SJW mob found a cause of the month and went after it with their standard tactics: lie, lie, push the lie, never admit the lie, never back down from the lie. Even the university never came clean, they were forced to.
 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21907]

15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

What I DO wonder is how many of y'all happily crowing about Oberlin getting popped for a jillion dollars ALSO regularly bitch about "runaway juries" and "lawsuit abuse" and such?

Most of the bitching is about some dumb fuck that gets rewarded with millions because of their own stupidity.  The owners of the business didn't fire bomb the school and then sue them because they got burned in the process.

[Brisketexan 105142]

3 minutes ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Most of the bitching is about some dumb fuck that gets rewarded with millions because of their own stupidity.  The owners of the business didn't fire bomb the school and then sue them because they got burned in the process.

"Because of their own stupidity" is a narrative that you choose to believe.  The facts demonstrate that it is rarely the accurate narrative.  And it sure doesn't explain how laws like damages caps for medical malpractice cases are needed because of the patient's "own stupidity."  As just one example of "tort reform."

Tort reform doesn't differentiate between good cases and bad cases.  It caps damages, limits exemplaries, etc., in ALL applicable cases.  That's kind of the point, and the problem.

[Brisketexan 105142]

8 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

This sucks for the bakery, I can't imagine being in that situation.  They're probably hating this entire stupid scenario.  This is a 100+yr old generational business that went into the shitter.  

The money will help, but with what? The relationship with one of the biggest customers is over. The reputation with students will never be the same. Regardless of court findings, the campus gossip rumor mill will still put this shadow over them indefinitely.

All because the SJW mob found a cause of the month and went after it with their standard tactics: lie, lie, push the lie, never admit the lie, never back down from the lie. Even the university never came clean, they were forced to.
 

100% on board with your first two paras.  That's the hell of the thing -- even in the event of a huge damages award, it still doesn't make everything right.  Destroy my business and relationship with a community I've been part of my whole life, no amount of money makes that "right."  Commit a tort that kills my family -- no amount of money makes that 'right.'

And as for your last paragraph, this case stands as a good warning against the danger of echo chambers, regardless of flavor.  When these folks sit around their fair-trade coffee and whip themselves up into a frenzy about a "racist bakery owner," they're little different than Fox News viewers who, when they see a brown person going into the 7-11, think "MS-13!"  Socially, we would all benefit from everyone inserting into all of their thinking processes, a pause to ponder "but what if I'm wrong?"

[TwiceHorn 31472]

20 minutes ago, AUS-97HORN said:

 

Bullshit Brisket.  and you fucking know it.    you also know why a lot of people are crowing about the verdict, and the cloak room is over there and you know that too.

did you read the article posted yesterday by the retired professor? his was a pretty interesting take showing that the school on multiple occasions refused to listen to their longer tenured professors telling them that going after the bakery was a bad idea.

Now is it worth $14M.... not sure, but considering that a 100+ year old business was basically destroyed because the school admins decided that this was a good time to deflect from their own internal issues and vent student anger over the election to something other than the school itself is absolutely a reason to punish the school when the testimony by multiple people, including multiple people of a race other than white indicating most of the protests were being led by the Dean of students- off campus mind you, and the Dean literally handed one of the School-published fliers that they printed to a fucking reporter. 

The school published the libelous information, and the dean led the charge on 2 of the protests, and the dean cancelled the 3rd protest because as her own emails show, the bakery was actually being supported MORE than before.    if this was a student led protest, why did they only attend the 2protests that were led by the dean, and not show up on their own for the 3rd when the dean complained that the bakery wasnt being impacted enough?

Not sure why you're calling bullshit on Brisket.  He didn't disagree with any of it.

From a larger perspective, I can see some value, educationally, to assisting students with a legitimate protest, but probably in a less "hands on" manner, meaning Dean of Students attends and advises meetings, supervises perhaps from a distance. That assistance should probably include some guidance on whether the protest is legitimate or not, as well as mostly keeping the protest "on target" and within the bounds of the law.

Getting intimately and emotionally involved, as did Raimondo and Tita, is not such a good idea, pedagogically.

Edited August 30, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[BabaYaga 15298]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Socially, we would all benefit from everyone inserting into all of their thinking processes, a pause to ponder "but what if I'm wrong?"

I take it you've never spent time in the cloak room.....;)

[Brisketexan 105142]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I take it you've never spent time in the cloak room.....;)

A fair amount.

If you haven't, you've missed a significant number of posters talking just recently about how they were definitely wrong about their political stances and allegiance in years past.  I don't think you'd like the direction they've headed since then, but it's refreshing to see real-world examples of folks who have changed their minds about things.

I mean, we all still think that OU sucks, though....some things don't require introspection to confirm.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

I tell ya one thing, the left sure hates the fuck out of some bakeries that won't bake em a cake. 

[Brisketexan 105142]

3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

I tell ya one thing, the left sure hates the fuck out of some bakeries that won't bake em a cake. 

The left spends a lotta time thinking about cake, the right spends a lotta time thinking about cock...

We all have our cross to bear.

[Nice Guy Eddie 13512]

1 hour ago, SDG said:

This is probably where you should have quit typing...  Read the rest of the thread and look up the definition of punitive damages then comeback with your thoughts. 

 

1 hour ago, AUS-97HORN said:

Im glad you werent on the jury

 

how about you start on page one, and read the fucking thread from page 1 and then read all the linked articles.  I mean i know thats probably too much time for you to invest yourself into reading about a horrible situation, but you really need to do that before coming on here and acting like you dont understand why the verdict was just. 

 

This isnt a case of ONE employee of the school going after the school.  its a case of the entire senior management team of the school punishing a small business for having the temerity of denying an underage black kid to buy alcohol, combined with then shoplifting, and then sponsoring a Dean-led jihad against the bakery encouraging students to protest a fake-news racist problem.   They literally have emails and texts from school officials asking each other how they can hurt the bakery the most by cancelling their 100-year old relationship on providing baked goods to the school.    That is so far out of their jurisdiction as a school administrator to handle a petty arrest (which btw, police records show that something like a 3 year period around 40 white people were arrested for shoplifting, 6 black and 2 asian.   which matches the racial makeup of the whole city almost to the percentage). 

some of you get triggered fairly easily if someone disagrees with you. I didn't say the business wasn't entitled to damages but I didn't see any description that proved 44m in damages or even $11m. 

That guy over there dented my car, I want $5B to cover my emotional damages. Doesn't matter if the damages were actually $500.

 

[David Dennison 18860]

So is Oberlin having classes this fall or did it have to shut down?

[SDG 3319]

25 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

some of you get triggered fairly easily if someone disagrees with you. I didn't say the business wasn't entitled to damages but I didn't see any description that proved 44m in damages or even $11m. 

That guy over there dented my car, I want $5B to cover my emotional damages. Doesn't matter if the damages were actually $500.

 

It’s not that you disagreed; it’s that, by your own admission, you did exactly zero research before blessing us with your conclusion...

Edited August 30, 2019 by SDG

[Longhorn94 2448]

18 hours ago, ShaggyBevo RIP said:

You do know it is a highly respected music college? You have to have talent to get in. Every orchestral/symphonic piece you've every heard performed by an American orchestra/symphony has Oberlin graduates playing.

my son's girlfriend is a music major at oberlin. she is incredibly talented and could have gone almost anywhere. 

[BabaYaga 15298]

The award is for years of lost business. After more reading, they also own property rentals and sued for lost rental income for 30 years. They brought in an expert witness that went over their accounting and basically made the case for what they got. Oberlin's accounting guy says the bakery's lost profit was only $35k and the rest was irrelevant or unprovable. That's just laughable. $11 million isn't out of the question.

That testimony provided that the school administrators clearly gave material support to the libelous protests in the use of college facilities and materials. Raimondo was also very clearly an active and aggressive participant.

[52-80 19159]

LMAO, this is really happening on liberal arts colleges' campuses?

 

 

 

 

[ChickenSandwich 9836]

2 hours ago, AUS-97HORN said:

Im glad you werent on the jury

 

how about you start on page one, and read the fucking thread from page 1 and then read all the linked articles.  I mean i know thats probably too much time for you to invest yourself into reading about a horrible situation, but you really need to do that before coming on here and acting like you dont understand why the verdict was just. 

 

This isnt a case of ONE employee of the school going after the school.  its a case of the entire senior management team of the school punishing a small business for having the temerity of denying an underage black kid to buy alcohol, combined with then shoplifting, and then sponsoring a Dean-led jihad against the bakery encouraging students to protest a fake-news racist problem.   They literally have emails and texts from school officials asking each other how they can hurt the bakery the most by cancelling their 100-year old relationship on providing baked goods to the school.    That is so far out of their jurisdiction as a school administrator to handle a petty arrest (which btw, police records show that something like a 3 year period around 40 white people were arrested for shoplifting, 6 black and 2 asian.   which matches the racial makeup of the whole city almost to the percentage). 

“We should unleash the students on him” - woke white professor commenting on African American professor’s opposition the the witch hunt 

[52-80 19159]

37 minutes ago, Longhorn94 said:

my son's girlfriend is a music major at oberlin. she is incredibly talented and could have gone almost anywhere. 

yeap.  after graduation, she's going to have her choice of:  starbucks, peet's coffee, or blue bottle company

[Longhorn94 2448]

12 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

yeap.  after graduation, she's going to have her choice of:  starbucks, peet's coffee, or blue bottle company

or she will accept the offers that she already has to play for a symphony/orchestra. 

[RDCanecutter 26443]

28 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

LMAO, this is really happening on liberal arts colleges' campuses?

 

 

 

 

Looks like that was half the bakery's business right there.

[zork 629]

47 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

LMAO, this is really happening on liberal arts colleges' campuses?

 

 

 

 

 it'sMAAM.gif (/ducks)

[C-Man 27227]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

 

some of you get triggered fairly easily if someone disagrees with you. I didn't say the business wasn't entitled to damages but I didn't see any description that proved 44m in damages or even $11m. 

That guy over there dented my car, I want $5B to cover my emotional damages. Doesn't matter if the damages were actually $500.

 

Your dented car comparison?

[phdhorn 6224]

4 hours ago, Longhorn94 said:

or she will accept the offers that she already has to play for a symphony/orchestra. 

She'd probably make more at those other places <runs, but I know what I'm talkin' about>

anyway, as I posted above, the music conservatory is somewhat detached from the rest of the college. It's true that undergrads have to take about one-fifth of their curriculum credit hours through the college and not the conservatory, but for the most part they never leave the buildings much. all the stuff with the bakery is probably lost on most of them, they were in some practice room 8 hours a day, say whatever else one wants to about music students, they work their asses off.

[ChickenSandwich 9836]

6 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

The award is for years of lost business. After more reading, they also own property rentals and sued for lost rental income for 30 years. They brought in an expert witness that went over their accounting and basically made the case for what they got. Oberlin's accounting guy says the bakery's lost profit was only $35k and the rest was irrelevant or unprovable. That's just laughable. $11 million isn't out of the question.

That testimony provided that the school administrators clearly gave material support to the libelous protests in the use of college facilities and materials. Raimondo was also very clearly an active and aggressive participant.

Keep reading the name as Rambo

[Deej 76793]

58 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Keep reading the name as Rambo

I keep reading it as Rapinoe.