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impeachment inquiry hearings thread

henrygandorf

By henrygandorf
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TexasEd
TexasEd

I voted for Trump/Against Hilary Clinton.   He should be impeached for: Extortion of a foreign government by withholding military assistance to an ally (and benefitting Russia) in exchange

Paul Wesley
Paul Wesley

I'm a couple pages back in this fast-moving thread, but I wanted to respond to this.   I'm pretty close to you in demographics, and I was also a child who echoed his parents' pro-Reagan stance, a

Tailgate
Tailgate

Unreal. Biden’s son can take home $1m a year from a Ukrainian company he knows nothing about...but our president acts like the CEO of a company with leverage in cutting deals and this shit happens?

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bad_teammate

bad_teammate 13195

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Still waiting on word from a horses mouth why impeachment guarantees a Trump victory

cs,b Facebook interaction this morning.

NPR Sister: "I know you made fun of the Russia stuff not working, but there's no way Trump gets away with this."

Me: "..."

NPR Sister: "I hate you."

Me: "You are not alone."

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horn4life

horn4life 3760

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Too bad I am not a political operative.  I would simply understanding questions.  As I was typing Castro hit on the point.  The President IS in the intelligence community.  I would have asked simply is there ANY member of the intelligence community that can release classified information.  And let him swing knowing that eventually he will figure out to say, The President.  

Just plod forward.  Interview Guliani, put Barr back under oath, and ask about the progress of the investigation into himself, Guliani and the President? 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105112

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

 

That won't last the day.  If you want to read their internal narrative, Matt Mackowiak wrote literally the entire thing down: 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/sep/25/after-failing-on-russia-democrats-try-a-new-hoax/

Quote

There was no “quid pro quo.” We were promised that Mr. Trump was explicit. The transcript shows no evidence of that.

The president did not mention defense aid even once. We were promised that Mr. Trump withheld defensive foreign aid as a bribe to secure an investigation of the Bidens. He did not mention the subject of defensive aid once during the call.

The only investigation that Mr. Trump brought up himself, unprompted, was an investigation into foreign meddling in the 2016 election, as it related to the hacking of the Democratic National Committee email server. Democrats used to care deeply about this subject.

The Ukrainian president was the first to mention Mr. Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani and he asked that Mr. Giuliani travel to Ukraine.

Despite news reports that Mr. Trump urged an investigation of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden and his son Hunter as many as eight times on the call, the transcript shows he mentioned them only once. The Ukrainian president specifically said Wednesday he did not feel pressured by Mr. Trump.

This is far too thin for the extreme constitutional remedy of impeachment.

And it goes on.  It's the whole thing, and every one of them is thinking and saying the same thing.

Hoping for a Republican to see the light is as silly as hoping a member of a cult wakes up one day and says "holy smokes, I'm in a cult, I oughta leave."  One in a million will, maybe.

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

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This feels like the Kavanaugh thing.  Hearing starts out with Blasey-Ford testifying credibly.  All sorts of reports Kav is done.  Then Leningrad Lindsey goes out there and gives an obviously fake outrage performance, and the tide entirely shifts into what a victim Kav is.

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Dahobbs

Dahobbs 17534

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Just now, lemonlime said:

This feels like the Kavanaugh thing.  Hearing starts out with Blasey-Ford testifying credibly.  All sorts of reports Kav is done.  Then Leningrad Lindsey goes out there and gives an obviously fake outrage performance, and the tide entirely shifts into what a victim Kav is.

In what way?

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Js1

Js1 85319

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

This feels like the Kavanaugh thing.  Hearing starts out with Blasey-Ford testifying credibly.  All sorts of reports Kav is done.  Then Leningrad Lindsey goes out there and gives an obviously fake outrage performance, and the tide entirely shifts into what a victim Kav is.

God, I do not need to see Miss Lindsey throw another hissy fit on national TV. 

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SuingToGetAMessageBoard?

SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861

Posted
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3 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

This feels like the Kavanaugh thing.  Hearing starts out with Blasey-Ford testifying credibly.  All sorts of reports Kav is done.  Then Leningrad Lindsey goes out there and gives an obviously fake outrage performance, and the tide entirely shifts into what a victim Kav is.

agree on the feel, but scale and receipts are very different here.  when you just had the word of one lady and it was a teenager-type crime, there are a lot of viable plays in defense.  

 

 

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14595

Posted
Posted (edited)

There seems to be a bit of a historical re-write going on in the comparison between impeaching Trump compared to the Clinton impeachment.  The GOP's conventional wisdom (and Dem leadership to a lesser degree) is that this will help Trump like it helped Clinton.  There are some things they're missing:

1.  Clinton was a relatively popular president before the impeachment.  (Link below for historical approval ratings for each president compared to Trump.  Great site, BTW.)  Despite never getting above 50% of the vote in two elections, Clinton had a 55-60% approval rating, which is remarkable if you think about it.  People generally liked him flaws and all.  The GOP thought everyone hated him like they did and they tried impeaching a rather popular president.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

Trump's ratings are almost 15 points lower than Clinton's and Trump's "strongly unfavorable" numbers are historically high.  The Democrats would be impeaching a wildly unpopular president compared to what happened to Clinton.

2.  There's a belief the GOP paid a high price.  True, they lost some seats in the 1998 mid term but you could make the case they held too many seats coming out of the 94 landslide.  They still controlled Congress, though.  A mere two years later they controlled the White House, the Senate, and the House for the first time in something like 80 years.  They essentially paid no political price for impeaching Clinton.

 

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
44 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

There seems to be a bit of a historical re-write going on in the comparison between impeaching Trump compared to the Clinton impeachment.  The GOP's conventional wisdom (and Dem leadership to a lesser degree) is that this will help Trump like it helped Clinton.  There are some things they're missing:

1.  Clinton was a relatively popular president before the impeachment.  (Link below for historical approval ratings for each president compared to Trump.  Great site, BTW.)  Despite never getting above 50% of the vote in two elections, Clinton had a 55-60% approval rating, which is remarkable if you think about it.  People generally liked him flaws and all.  The GOP thought everyone hated him like they did and they tried impeaching a rather popular president.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

Trump's ratings are almost 15 points lower than Clinton's and Trump's "strongly unfavorable" numbers are historically high.  The Democrats would be impeaching a wildly unpopular president compared to what happened to Clinton.

2.  There's a belief the GOP paid a high price.  True, they lost some seats in the 1998 mid term but you could make the case they held too many seats coming out of the 94 landslide.  They still controlled Congress, though.  A mere two years later they controlled the White House, the Senate, and the House for the first time in something like 80 years.  They essentially paid no political price for impeaching Clinton.

 

And I think the scandal was instrumental in getting W elected.   I remember him running on "restoring honor and integrity to the White House."  The message was that he was a decent family man who we needed to counteract the tawdry Clinton sex scandals.   Gore was so spooked that, despite Clinton's popularity, he kept him at arm's length during the campaign. 

In an election decided by 537 votes, I think the impeachment was enough to tank what should have been an easy win for the VP of a popular incumbent. 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
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There is a big debate on the scope of the articles of impeachment.

One camp thinks the democrats should impeach on everything (Mueller, Emoluments, Obstruction of Congress, Abuse of Power).

The other camp thinks the democrats should focus the articles centrally on this whistleblower scandal.  

For me, it depends on how you define success.  Do you want to make a statement or do you want to remove Trump with the quickness.   

If you want to remove Trump, the focus on the whistleblower is the way to go IMO.   A line was crossed that should never be crossed. Focusing on that line crossing makes it clear cut both for the public and the Senate.  You can do this quicker with a sense of urgency. The messaging is easier. 

 

If you stack all the other crimes in the impeachment it neutralizes the egregiousness of the whistleblower because it puts it on the same level as emoluments and the obstruction in the Mueller Report.  It will take longer to go this way and the Republicans can just claim it’s all partisan nonsense and give them an opportunity to stall and try to ride it out until the 2020 election.  Going for everything might cripple Trump’s re-election prospects but it has less of a chance of removing Trump IMO. 

If the democrats want to win, impeach on the whistleblower.  

If the democrats want make the more righteous political statement, impeach on everything.

JMO

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triplehorn

triplehorn 2664

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The thing about this whistleblower case is that while it can be narrow on the face of it, it already has direct ties to so many key individuals, and separate but related matters.  Individuals, at a minimum, include a bullseye with Trump, AG Barr, Pence, Giuliani, Pompeo, and WH lawyers.  Matters, apart from Trump extortion of a foreign leader to rig an attack on a political opponent, include direct Trump ties to efforts to undermine Mueller cases against Russian responsibility for the 2016 election attack, and by extension Roger Stone's indictments, and separately Manafort's.  

To the extent the public may find it hard to accept Mueller's findings, this whistleblower case DIRECTLY substantiates all of it regarding Trump.  all.of.it.  Same conduct - the underlying crime - that motivated all those cases of Trump's obstruction of justice. 

So develop the WB case to its fullest and use it to then bolster all the previous conduct Mueller detailed to form the Articles of Impeachment.

If the money laundering, bank fraud, and tax evasion surface in the next two months, all the worse for that mobbed up piece of shit.  And on the transnational crime financial piece, if we're lucky, the baton can get passed to a president Warren to bring some serious and essential reform to big banks and the global financial system that sustains it all.

 

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horncyclist

horncyclist 1387

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6 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

The thing about this whistleblower case is that while it can be narrow on the face of it, it already has direct ties to so many key individuals, and separate but related matters.  Individuals, at a minimum, include a bullseye with Trump, AG Barr, Pence, Giuliani, Pompeo, and WH lawyers.  Matters, apart from Trump extortion of a foreign leader to rig an attack on a political opponent, include direct Trump ties to efforts to undermine Mueller cases against Russian responsibility for the 2016 election attack, and by extension Roger Stone's indictments, and separately Manafort's.  

To the extent the public may find it hard to accept Mueller's findings, this whistleblower case DIRECTLY substantiates all of it regarding Trump.  all.of.it.  Same conduct - the underlying crime - that motivated all those cases of Trump's obstruction of justice. 

So develop the WB case to its fullest and use it to then bolster all the previous conduct Mueller detailed to form the Articles of Impeachment.

If the money laundering, bank fraud, and tax evasion surface in the next two months, all the worse for that mobbed up piece of shit.  And on the transnational crime financial piece, if we're lucky, the baton can get passed to a president Warren to bring some serious and essential reform to big banks and global financial system that sustain it all.

 

More whistleblowers coming forward would be real cool. Like from the Barr Justice department. This guy is guilty as Fuck. No matter what alternative facts they spin.

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suddenly shaggy

suddenly shaggy 929

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Lurch said:

Line them up in parallel processes and just keep firing them one at a time

I agree with this.

First, loudly tell anyone who will listen that the Senate has sold their souls and will not remove Trump, no matter the offense. Regardless of this, the House will do it's constitutional duty and lawfully impeach a criminal president.  

Next, impeach him for his conduct over Ukraine and send it to the Senate. While the Senate is discussing and voting on it, impeach Trump for another heinous act (some of the NRA/Russia stuff would be perfect), keeping the GOP and Trump on the defensive. This sucks all the air out of the room and the media will follow the shiny new toy, dominating media coverage. 

Repeat 3-4 times on the worst stuff and drag it out for the next 6 months or so. 

Then, publicly announce that the current Senate refuses to hold a criminal president in charge, making them accomplices to Trump's crimes. The american people must vote in both a Democrat as president and a Democrat controlled Senate to restore dignity to the country. 

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bolverk

bolverk 29671

Posted
Posted (edited)

One thing to keep in mind: Voting. Fucking. Matters.

Imagine an alternative timeline where Republicans had kept the House last fall and how the Whistle-Blower's report would've been received, not just by Congress, but also the press.

Thank God for that blue wave. 🌊

Edited by bolverk
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29190

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13 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

I agree with this.

First, loudly tell anyone who will listen that the Senate has sold their souls and will not remove Trump, no matter the offense. Regardless of this, the House will do it's constitutional duty and lawfully impeach a criminal president.  

Next, impeach him for his conduct over Ukraine and send it to the Senate. While the Senate is discussing and voting on it, impeach Trump for another heinous act (some of the NRA/Russia stuff would be perfect), keeping the GOP and Trump on the defensive. This sucks all the air out of the room and the media will follow the shiny new toy, dominating media coverage. 

Repeat 3-4 times on the worst stuff and drag it out for the next 6 months or so. 

Then, publicly announce that the current Senate refuses to hold a criminal president in charge, making them accomplices to Trump's crimes. The american people must vote in both a Democrat as president and a Democrat controlled Senate to restore dignity to the country. 

i still think the emoluments/financials/tax return shitstorm is one of the clearest and easiest for the public to understand.

i'm actually shocked it doesn't get more daily attention.  i guess when you break the law 15x a day, a couple breaches of the constitution can skate through relatively unnoticed.

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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

you won’t get it, because it’s a false assumption based on speculative nonsense. 

he’s gonna lose huge. 

I appear to have/had the same opinioin as Nancy Pelosi. Why don't you ask her why she was opposed to it?

10 hours ago, Homercles said:

Still waiting on word from a horses mouth why impeachment guarantees a Trump victory

You have an entire internet worth of information at your fingertips. Why don't you do the research and form your own opinion? Doesn't it show poor judgment to seek the counsel of a dumb as a bag of hammers lying racist?

I am so excited. We get to have an impeachment. This is just amazing and wonderful stuff. I think it was a necessary step really.

Edited by Thetexashammer
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29190

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3 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

I appear to have/had the same opinioin as Nancy Pelosi. Why don't you ask her why she was opposed to it?

she was opposed to it because sitting on her hands ensured the inevitable trump drubbing at the ballot box.  but now he's gone too far.

he does some illegal shit, he looks bad.  he continues doing illegal shit, the house starts to look bad.  it won't affect the election, but she had to make a move.

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14595

Posted
Posted

Another mistake people are making with conventional wisdom now is from the Republican standpoint.  They think if they ditch Trump their base will leave them.  They won't.  Their base is the most pliable in all of American political history.  The Sunday after he leaves office, the Baptist preachers will be telling their flock how godly of a man Mike Pence is and how god chose him for this special time in history.  The base will then be whipped into a frenzy of talk of socialism and what not.  They won't lose one base vote.

There is only upside to them ditching Trump.  They can start from scratch like he never even happened.

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Homercles

Homercles 10205

Posted
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

I appear to have/had the same opinioin as Nancy Pelosi. Why don't you ask her why she was opposed to it?

You have an entire internet worth of information at your fingertips. Why don't you do the research and form your own opinion? Doesn't it show poor judgment to seek the counsel of a dumb as a bag of hammers lying racist?

I am so excited. We get to have an impeachment. This is just amazing and wonderful stuff. I think it was a necessary step really.

This is like reply #5 where I ask someone to give me a straight answer why a Trumpkin thinks impeachment proceedings will directly lead to Trump winning again without a direct response.

Tell me why you feel it’s so straight forward.  Tell me ‘in your own opinion’.  I’m a Poke fan. I have lots of patience 

Edited by Homercles
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Thetexashammer

Thetexashammer 1062

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Homercles said:

This is like reply #5 where I ask someone to give me a straight answer why a Trumpkin thinks impeachment proceedings will directly lead to Trump winning again without a direct response.

Tell me why you feel it’s so straight forward.  Tell me ‘in your own opinion’.  I’m a Poke fan. I have lots of patience 

What was Bill Clinton's approval rating after he got impeached?

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Homercles

Homercles 10205

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Thetexashammer said:

What was Bill Clinton's approval rating after he got impeached?

Give me a straight answer.  Why do you think impeachment determines a guaranteed Trump win?

its like y’all can’t read.  Tell me why in your own words without another ‘but Obama/Clinton’

Edited by Homercles
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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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Posted
Democrats about to fuck this up, they will go on vacation for 2 weeks and trump will do a twitter war with Elmo and media will focus on that.

if anybody can mess up a wet dream, it’s the Democrats 

 

Schiff announced today they’re working through the break.

 

(No clarification if “they” is the entire HoR or just the his committee.)

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Gengs1

Gengs1 2583

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

Schiff announced today they’re working through the break.

 

(No clarification if “they” is the entire HoR or just the his committee.)

He did and i am betting that most of them go on vacation and the committee stays back and nothing happens. There is no all of the ds stay behind.

 

They will fuck this up one way or another. 

Fox News is gearing how to spin this right now as he didn’t mean it or he was talking about something  else   

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