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impeachment inquiry hearings thread

henrygandorf

By henrygandorf
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TexasEd
TexasEd

I voted for Trump/Against Hilary Clinton.   He should be impeached for: Extortion of a foreign government by withholding military assistance to an ally (and benefitting Russia) in exchange

Paul Wesley
Paul Wesley

I'm a couple pages back in this fast-moving thread, but I wanted to respond to this.   I'm pretty close to you in demographics, and I was also a child who echoed his parents' pro-Reagan stance, a

Tailgate
Tailgate

Unreal. Biden’s son can take home $1m a year from a Ukrainian company he knows nothing about...but our president acts like the CEO of a company with leverage in cutting deals and this shit happens?

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cactusflinthead

cactusflinthead 27601

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, triplehorn said:

Being reported today that Paul Ryan has told Lachlan (Fox) to plan for a post-Trump future.

I wonder if that's based on what he's seen happen in the last 8 days, or based on his knowledge of things that helped nudge him to abandon Congress and the Speakership a year ago that soon will be news.  [whynotboth.gif]

I'm wondering if this is why Chris Wallace is trending. I read that too. Had to tell Shep to quit picking on Tucker. 

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Longhorn_Fan68

Longhorn_Fan68 33881

Posted
Posted
Just now, Aqua Buddha said:

In theory, the only motivation he'd have to resign is if he was promised a full blanket pardon by Pence.  If he loses the election, a Democratic president wouldn't promise that.  Trump only cares about himself and if the Senate GOP makes that offer, he'd take that.

I'd go further to say he would ask for immunity for his family. he might even forgo a pardon to get that

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
Just now, cactusflinthead said:

And then what? 

He calls Turtle's bluff.

It's all about the base. He runs off Trump and they are going to be a problem. 

Where are they going to go?  What are they going to do? Vote democrat?  Nah, they will be looking for Trumpy replacement candidates.  

The Republicans also stand to gain some of the never-Trumpers they ran off.  They’re still out there.  

Look at what is currently happening, republicans are increasingly coming around to the idea of impeachment.  The Republican Party is starting to crack.  At some point they will have to stop the bleeding and re-brand themselves.

I don’t know what is going to happen but I think it’s more ignorant to rule out possibilities just because you’re certain Trump will never resign.  Trump always runs away and takes the plea deal in the end. It’s how he’s managed to survive all this time.  He’s a coward.

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Jiggy-Z

Jiggy-Z 3433

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Nah, that’s bullshit.  No one thought OJ Simpson was innocent after he was found not guilty. 

Impeaching Trump cripples him politically no matter how hard they try to spin it. 

Yes but....

OJ is brown and what is he wearing in this picture?... I thought so.

spacer.png

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105181

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

And then what? 

He calls Turtle's bluff.

It's all about the base. He runs off Trump and they are going to be a problem. 

Correct.

5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Where are they going to go?  What are they going to do? Vote democrat?  Nah, they will be looking for Trumpy replacement candidates.  

The Republicans also stand to gain some of the never-Trumpers they ran off.  They’re still out there.  

Look at what is currently happening, republicans are increasingly coming around to the idea of impeachment.  The Republican Party is starting to crack.  At some point they will have to stop the bleeding and re-brand themselves.

I don’t know what is going to happen but I think it’s more ignorant to rule out possibilities just because you’re certain Trump will never resign.  Trump always runs away and takes the plea deal in the end. It’s how he’s managed to survive all this time.  He’s a coward.

Not correct.

There MAY be no viable GOP with Trump as president.

There's DEFINITELY no viable GOP without him, because the party is a cult now.

Turtle ain't stupid.  He'll never even play that hand, because his bluff would be called.  There is no negotiation here, there is no surrender.  This doesn't end without a Hiroshima.

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cactusflinthead

cactusflinthead 27601

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Where are they going to go?  What are they going to do? Vote democrat?  Nah, they will be looking for Trumpy replacement candidates.  

The Republicans also stand to gain some of the never-Trumpers they ran off.  They’re still out there.  

Look at what is currently happening, republicans are increasingly coming around to the idea of impeachment.  The Republican Party is starting to crack.  At some point they will have to stop the bleeding and re-brand themselves.

I don’t know what is going to happen but I think it’s more ignorant to rule out possibilities just because you’re certain Trump will never resign.  Trump always runs away and takes the plea deal in the end. It’s how he’s managed to survive all this time.  He’s a coward.

You're missing it. Trump is where he is because of the GOP base. They are not going to vote for Hurd. Brisket has said here when I asked him if he was going to try to fix things in his old party, the one that applauds cruelty, and if I remember the gist of it, they were not ready to hear him. They don't want to hear from R. Wilson or J. Rubin or any other human that is not ready to go whole hog at Punishment. Of every opponent at every opportunity. They are ready to cut 500k kids off of free school lunch. They spent more money to bail out soybeans than cars and nobody gives a shit. 

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14599

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Where are they going to go?  What are they going to do? Vote democrat?  Nah, they will be looking for Trumpy replacement candidates.  

The Republicans also stand to gain some of the never-trumpets they ran off.  They’re still out there.  

Look at what is currently happening, republicans are increasingly coming around to the idea of impeachment.  The Republican Party is starting to crack.  At some point they will have to stop the bleeding and re-brand themselves.

I don’t know what is going to happen but I think it’s more ignorant to rule out possibilities just because you’re certain Trump will never resign.  Trump always runs away and takes the plea deal in the end. It’s how he’s managed to survive all this time.  He’s a coward.

He's completely toxic with the white college educated women block and they're a fucking millstone around the GOP's neck in these congressional districts.  They were all drawn counting on those precincts.  They're not there anymore and he's why.  The GOP will do their damnedest to erase Trump from their existence.  Run some non rapey normal Republican and some of them will come back.

As far as the base, they'll do whatever they're told.  The preachers will tell them Pence is a godly man Fox will whip up the right amount of hysteria.  

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Irwin F Fletcher

Irwin F Fletcher 3550

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Posted

This is the scenario I hope that transpires, it would be epic. If it comes to this it will be because there's been a change in the tide. The public support for impeachment will reflect it and the republicans in the Senate who are up for election will be feeling the heat at home. Turtle and the rest of the cronies will lookout for themselves and throw Donald to the wolves, it's the only thing they know.

The mud slinging would be beyond anything I could imagine. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105181

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Aqua Buddha said:

You guys are completely overrating the autonomy of the GOP base.  Especially with the evangelicals, they're the most pliable and morally flexible voting block in all of American politics.  

Everyone thinks they control the monster, till the day comes that they realize that the monster controls them.

The base is an awakened beast of anger, cruelty, and irrationality.  The second that someone like Falwell Jr. came out and said "nevermind, Trump was bad -- Pence is the way to go," he'd be cast out as an apostate libtard.  The beast is sentient and self-determining.  It feeds on anger and pain.  And Trump has a bottomless feed bucket full of both.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

There's DEFINITELY no viable GOP without him, because the party is a cult now.

Turtle ain't stupid.  He'll never even play that hand, because his bluff would be called.  There is no negotiation here, there is no surrender.  This doesn't end without a Hiroshima.

I think you underestimate how easily the cult can be manipulated into going along with whatever McConnell and his propaganda machines want.  This is the guy that made taking away healthcare from millions of people politically popular.  They can spin ALMOST anything.  

Trump’s cult isn’t as strong as you think either.  They’re mostly nihilists that deep down don’t give a shit about anything except seeing other people suffer. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
Almost
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tantric superman

tantric superman 4667

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Posted
1 hour ago, cactusflinthead said:

He'd need a complete personality transplant to resign. Malignant narcissism means you are never wrong. Resigning means he admits to being wrong. That's not happening. 

 

I don't know.  Isn't there a "take my ball and go home" reaction that is compatible with malignant narcissism.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11364

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6 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

That's a good thing to try, but first you have to get past Stephen Miller. And he's not anywhere close to satisfied with his cruelty campaign. 

See him get jettisoned and then there's a chance. Until then I'm not convinced that there is a way to dispel the myth of invulnerability in his head. 

7-things-trump-henchman-stephen-miller-h

seriously though. just look at this cretin.

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cactusflinthead

cactusflinthead 27601

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I'd really rather not. Of all the people that have gone through the meat grinder of the WH, he's as ensconced as ever. He's a perfect match for Trump. No empathy and smart. He's not a fool. He's capable of squelching any deal. He's not done. There are still brown people in America. He's shooting for negative immigration rates. And that's not happening if he's not at Trump's ear.

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hayden_horn

hayden_horn 11364

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, cactusflinthead said:

I'd really rather not. Of all the people that have gone through the meat grinder of the WH, he's as ensconced as ever. He's a perfect match for Trump. No empathy and smart. He's not a fool. He's capable of squelching any deal. He's not done. There are still brown people in America. He's shooting for negative immigration rates. And that's not happening if he's not at Trump's ear.

180813stephenmillermaggettyimages-633576

someone (i really wish i could remember who) captioned this one with "that spider over there is almost big enough to eat."

makes me lol to this day, every time i see this picture

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29194

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3 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

i'm telling you, mitch mcconnell is brutus to trump's caesar.

or he's whispering in trump's ear, "don't worry, i'm gonna encourage this thing to go quickly so we can vote it down, claim victory, and ride that wave for a year until the voting starts."

 

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Fudge Nuggets

Fudge Nuggets 19209

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Posted
19 hours ago, suddenly shaggy said:

I agree with this.

First, loudly tell anyone who will listen that the Senate has sold their souls and will not remove Trump, no matter the offense. Regardless of this, the House will do it's constitutional duty and lawfully impeach a criminal president.  

Next, impeach him for his conduct over Ukraine and send it to the Senate. While the Senate is discussing and voting on it, impeach Trump for another heinous act (some of the NRA/Russia stuff would be perfect), keeping the GOP and Trump on the defensive. This sucks all the air out of the room and the media will follow the shiny new toy, dominating media coverage. 

Repeat 3-4 times on the worst stuff and drag it out for the next 6 months or so. 

Then, publicly announce that the current Senate refuses to hold a criminal president in charge, making them accomplices to Trump's crimes. The american people must vote in both a Democrat as president and a Democrat controlled Senate to restore dignity to the country. 

You have my vote for DNC chair.

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Aqua Buddha

Aqua Buddha 14599

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Posted
33 minutes ago, ndawg said:

I mean, David Miscavige slid right into the big boy seat at the Church Scientology after L Ron Hubbard died. Cult populations can be transplanted over to a new leader. It's not easy, but there is historical precedent.

Cultists are easy to manipulate.  GOP base is no different.

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wildcat09

wildcat09 29360

Posted
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2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I think you underestimate how easily the cult can be manipulated into going along with whatever McConnell and his propaganda machines want.  This is the guy that made taking away healthcare from millions of people politically popular.  They can spin ALMOST anything.  

Trump’s cult isn’t as strong as you think either.  They’re mostly nihilists that deep down don’t give a shit about anything except seeing other people suffer. 

Cults follow bellicose authoritarian strongmen.  Mitch ain't that.

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29194

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7 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

That base.

He says it better than I can. 

 

yep.

if you come after him, you're full of shit, because you're doing it for partisan political purposes, and cannot be taken seriously.

doesn't matter if you have democratic or republican ties - you're not credible, because you just don't like him, and you're making it personal.  he's successfully painted everything with that brush, because his base laps it up.

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bolverk

bolverk 29696

Posted
Posted

New poll on impeachment:

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/463408-support-for-impeachment-rises-12-points-in-new-poll

For the data wonks, there are some interesting nuggets in the cross-tabs. My takeaway is that Dems need to targeting women (especially women of color under 50). They seem the most uncertain and should be easy to convince if they pay attention. Also, opposition among Gen Z is a little disconcerting.

  total male female          
strong support 35 35 35   majority support    
somewhat support 12 14 11   majority oppose    
somewhat oppose 11 11 11   double digit don't knows (opportunity)
strong oppose 31 33 29          
                 
support 47 49 46          
oppose 42 44 40          
don't know 11 7 14          
                 
  white black hisp asian other      
strong support 31 52 37 36 58      
somewhat support 13 11 12 13 5      
somewhat oppose 11 9 15 5 3      
strong oppose 38 11 18 19 25      
                 
support 44 63 49 49 63      
oppose 49 20 33 24 28      
don't know 7 17 18 27 9      
                 
  male       female      
  18-34 35-49 50-64 65+ 18-34 36-49 50-64 65+
strong support 32 37 36 33 39 39 30 33
somewhat support 23 13 8 14 13 10 10 9
somewhat oppose 12 15 10 5 11 17 8 9
strong oppose 22 22 40 47 15 21 38 44
                 
support 55 50 44 47 52 49 40 42
oppose 34 37 50 52 26 38 46 53
don't know 11 13 6 1 22 13 14 5
                 
                 
  gen z millennial gen x boomer silent      
strong support 16 41 36 33 27      
somewhat support 27 15 9 10 19      
somewhat oppose 19 12 12 8 8      
strong oppose 21 18 26 45 43      
                 
support 43 56 45 43 46      
oppose 40 30 38 53 51      
don't know 16 14 17 4 4      
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Jack Straw

Jack Straw 2954

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Posted
5 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

This.  I don't think the Dems can keep this up for a year straight.  Public will lose interest and he will skate and possibly get re-elected.

All of this but change "possibly get re-elected" to "absolutely get re-elected with foreign assistance and interference."

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Pig Bellmont

Pig Bellmont 8719

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Posted
16 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

so in regards to the pompeo subpoenas, the fallout is different if he chooses to stonewall, correct?

if he withholds testimony or documents, can't it be part of the obstruction article of impeachment?

Yes, and there could be jail time for obstruction if I’m not mistaken 

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, bolverk said:

New poll on impeachment:

https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/463408-support-for-impeachment-rises-12-points-in-new-poll

For the data wonks, there are some interesting nuggets in the cross-tabs. My takeaway is that Dems need to targeting women (especially women of color under 50). They seem the most uncertain and should be easy to convince if they pay attention. Also, opposition among Gen Z is a little disconcerting.

  total male female          
strong support 35 35 35   majority support    
somewhat support 12 14 11   majority oppose    
somewhat oppose 11 11 11   double digit don't knows (opportunity)
strong oppose 31 33 29          
                 
support 47 49 46          
oppose 42 44 40          
don't know 11 7 14          
                 
  white black hisp asian other      
strong support 31 52 37 36 58      
somewhat support 13 11 12 13 5      
somewhat oppose 11 9 15 5 3      
strong oppose 38 11 18 19 25      
                 
support 44 63 49 49 63      
oppose 49 20 33 24 28      
don't know 7 17 18 27 9      
                 
  male       female      
  18-34 35-49 50-64 65+ 18-34 36-49 50-64 65+
strong support 32 37 36 33 39 39 30 33
somewhat support 23 13 8 14 13 10 10 9
somewhat oppose 12 15 10 5 11 17 8 9
strong oppose 22 22 40 47 15 21 38 44
                 
support 55 50 44 47 52 49 40 42
oppose 34 37 50 52 26 38 46 53
don't know 11 13 6 1 22 13 14 5
                 
                 
  gen z millennial gen x boomer silent      
strong support 16 41 36 33 27      
somewhat support 27 15 9 10 19      
somewhat oppose 19 12 12 8 8      
strong oppose 21 18 26 45 43      
                 
support 43 56 45 43 46      
oppose 40 30 38 53 51      
don't know 16 14 17 4 4      

To add to this:

 

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29194

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madeline dean was just asked (after ukraine) what articles they would be going after or focusing on, and she said #2 would be obstruction of congress.  as much as the emoluments clause bothers me, and as obvious as it is, i think they have it right as far as threats to the constitution and prioritizing things properly.

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Hugo Stiglitz

Hugo Stiglitz 23367

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 


He’s great. Any shot he could win?

 

He ran in 2018 against Trumpublican douchebag (Clay Higgins) that won without a runoff in a jungle primary. 

If he could take Higgins to a runoff in 2020 he might have a shot but that seat has been GOP since 2011. 

He needs fewer democrats to run in the primary because they split the vote. 

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz
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