impeachment inquiry hearings thread

[Bama Chick 28,596]

But of course!

I want off this ride.

[Celery Man 20,949]

2 hours ago, Foosters said:

It's pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain...

did... Kavanaugh play football?

[bolverk 29,672]

2 hours ago, Foosters said:

It's pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain...

Comin' down the mountain
One of many children
Everybody has
Their own opinion
Everybody has
Their own opinion
Holding it back
Hurts so bad
Jumping out of my flesh
And I said

Cash in!
Cash in now honey
Cash in now
Cash in now
Cash in now honey
Cash in miss smith
Cash in now!

I was comin down the mountain
Met a child she had pin eyes
We had the same opinion
Had the same opinion
She was holding it back
It hurts do bad
Jumping out of her flesh
And I said

Cash in!
Cash in now honey
Cash in now
Cash in now
Cash in now honey
Cash in miss smith
Cash in now!

[notre dame joe 187]

4 hours ago, Jack Straw said:

Can someone provide a list of a Republicans who have spoken up and stated that the President of the United States inviting foreign interference in our election process, and committing treason, is wrong?  Republicans on this board? Or in the House, or in the Senate?  Or any Republican elected official at any level, anywhere in the country?  Or on the planet earth? 

Oh, that’s right, there are none.  There is no list.  

are the DS still denying the Obama administration colluded with foreign powers against the Trump campaign or do you now say it was justified?

[4th&Five 41,551]

BUT OBAMA!!!!!!!

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

1 minute ago, notre dame joe said:

are the DS still denying the Obama administration colluded with foreign powers against the Trump campaign or do you now say it was justified?

the whatabout board is at texags.com

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

It's more than a "what about", it's a fucking complete misunderstanding of reality.

[suddenly shaggy 929]

So, like he said, Texags.

[Bama Chick 28,596]

[Mdhorn 5,949]

6 hours ago, tantric superman said:

I would be so pro-Ross Perot if he were born 25 years later and ready to run as an independent in this shit show election.

the thing with Ross Perot was that people thought he was crazy.  Hard to believe in today's context but back then, he was deemed crazy even though he was a real billionaire.

 

5 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

Chuck Todd actually getting something right. 

 

why do they keep saying our democracy is under attack by just the president when it's being attacked by the entire Republican Party?  Broaden the scope, they're obstructing justice this very moment.  

[notre dame joe 187]

2 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

the thing with Ross Perot was that people thought he was crazy.  Hard to believe in today's context but back then, he was deemed crazy even though he was a real billionaire.

 

Perot said that NAFTA would cause industry to move to Mexico en masse, and was thus dismissed as an old coot. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21,199]

5 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

are the DS still denying the Obama administration colluded with foreign powers against the Trump campaign or do you now say it was justified?

Is Obama the current POTUS, you mushroom sucking sycophant?

[Dahobbs 17,534]

53 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Is Obama the current POTUS, you mushroom sucking sycophant?

Well, and none of that happened. Like, at all. 

[hookemATL 11,734]

7 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

are the DS still denying the Obama administration colluded with foreign powers against the Trump campaign or do you now say it was justified?

Doesn’t post in trump thread for ages, then drops in with a “but Obama!!!#%%&$!”

Par for the course for you and your ilk.  Fucking. Pussies. 

[horncyclist 1,387]

With these latest developments, think about how if the whistleblower doesn't complain, then Ukraine probably issues that statement announcing an investigation of Hunter Biden in some form.The public would only have seen that and all we would be talking about is Biden's corruption. Regarless of if Ukraine actually investigated or if there was anything there, that statement from Ukraine and the fallout would have significantly hurt Biden. And the President would have compelled it using our foreign and diplomatic power.

How is that not impeachable? Holy shit.

And if thats wrong but not impeachable (looking at you GOP) them where's the line?How are the actions above any different than promising sanction relief to Russia in exchange for a 2016 effort again? (Oh, which by the way, probably happened and we don't know because Trump OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE 10 times). This is insane.

[hookemATL 11,734]

Just now, hookemATL said:

 

 

Edited October 4, 2019 by hookemATL
Derp

[Dbeasy 15,051]

In today’s world, Nixon would never have resigned. All he did were a few “dirty tricks”. The public back then didn’t even really understand what was and wasn’t illegal. Representatives of the government had to educate them.

Same thing today. The people who govern have to be responsible enough to ensure this country is run in accordance with the rule of law. When they don’t, we have the current shit show we are now seeing. It’s really sad.

[horncyclist 1,387]

4 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

In today’s world, Nixon would never have resigned. All he did were a few “dirty tricks”. The public back then didn’t even really understand what was and wasn’t illegal. Representatives of the government had to educate them.

Same thing today. The people who govern have to be responsible enough to ensure this country is run in accordance with the rule of law. When they don’t, we have the current shit show we are now seeing. It’s really sad.

And the media in Nixon's day was much more concentrated. It's far easier today to spin a false narrative through social media and partisan outlets like Fox news.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

This is an important detail and thread that gets lost in the shuffle.

It has always been the Trump-Russia scandal  and the keystone has always been Paul Manafort.  

There are other players like Stone, Flynn, Gates, Prince but none square the circle like Paul Manafort. 

[Pig Bellmont 8,718]

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

2 minutes ago, Pig Bellmont said:

 

China is full of shit.  They are going to work in their interests but they’ll do it less overtly. 

[DigglerontheHoof 21,199]

2 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

China is full of shit.  They are going to work in their interests but they’ll do it less overtly. 

yep, anyone who doesn't think China is going to exploit a stupid, corrupt US president, is crazy.  I guarantee they want as many years w/ Trump as POTUS, as possible. 

[HOOK'EMHOOAH 1,610]

15 hours ago, Foosters said:

It's pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain...

I don't mind the sun sometimes, the images it shows I can taste you on my lips and smell you in my clothes Cinnamon and sugary and softly spoken lies You never know just how you look through other people's eyes

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,367]

 

[jimmyjazz 45,952]

I know the evidence will fall on nothing but deaf ears throughout the modern right, but anyone who actually possesses critical thinking skills above those of a 5th-grader should recognize that this is about the impending election, not corruption, given that Trump is now targeting Joe Biden AND ELIZABETH WARREN.

Damn, our country is shot through with idiots.

[Red Five 40,858]

I know the evidence will fall on nothing but deaf ears throughout the modern right, but anyone who actually possesses critical thinking skills above those of a 5th-grader should recognize that this is about the impending election, not corruption, given that Trump is now targeting Joe Biden AND ELIZABETH WARREN.
Damn, our country is shot through with idiots.

Probably just a coincidence.

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Damn, our country is shot through with idiots.

This really is the problem.  Collectively, we are so much dumber than I think any of us could have imagined.

[Mdhorn 5,949]

For those too dumb to understand, selling your rights won't stop with the elections. And then dipshits will wonder how we got here.  

[Mdhorn 5,949]

Dp

Edited October 4, 2019 by Mdhorn

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

We are also intellectually lazy. Heck, I try and read around but many of you are light years beyond me in keeping up with current events. It is also hard for me to determine when I am Dunning-Krugering (is that a word?) and must force myself to be honest when I am misinformed or rationalizing. So, given that many Americans are busy trying to put food on the table, busy looking for the next turn-up, busy trying to get ahead, or are retired and focused on keeping the retirement checks as full as possible it shouldn't come as a surprise that going with what is easy is more expedient than critically examining the country at large and one's place in it.

[SquishMitten 10,406]

37 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Damn, our country is shot through with idiots. intellectually lazy people who choose to listen to idiots in lieu of thinking for themselves. 

FIFY. The real problem is that we are dumber as a whole than we are individually. 

Edited October 4, 2019 by SquishMitten

[hobbes2702 13,033]

11 hours ago, notre dame joe said:

are the DS still denying the Obama administration colluded with foreign powers against the Trump campaign or do you now say it was justified?

That didn’t happen so try again.

[immamac 42,850]

Why is this taking so long

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

That didn’t happen so try again.

don't encourage him.

[yoladu 4,094]

the story is wild and getting more difficult to follow.

So, how about this exercise? Trying to sum this up in a tidy manner (10 bullet points or less):

1. The POTUS directed State Department officials to put pressure on the government of Ukraine to investigate a political rival's son for corruption. The POTUS also personally asked the Ukranian President to investigate, not only Biden, but Ukraine's supposed involvement in the 2016 US presidential Election (Crowdstrike).

2. the basis of said Biden corruption investigation is built on conspiracy theories and already de-bunked accusations. The basis of said Ukraine's involvement in the 2016 US Presidential Election is also widely considered a fringe theory.

3. The political rival is currently the leading the field of candidates to be the Democratic Nominee for President in 2020.

4. The Ukraine government was a) not sold there was anything credible to investigate & b) reluctant to get involved in American politics.

5. The POTUS held up payment of promised military aid, approved by Congress, to twist the arm of the Ukraine govt.

6.the Ukraine desperate for military aid, fed Rudy Giuliani, the President's "personal lawyer" and a private citizen, bogus intel on Biden (apparently) in a desperate attempt  to curry favor with the president.

7. Meanwhile, the POTUS publicly suggested that our main geo-political rival China, an authoritarian government, should investigate Joe Biden (a political rival) and Hunter Biden.

8.

9.

10.

I left 3 spaces open for the Unwashed Surly to add. Also, highlighted edits to points 1 - 7 are very much encouraged. Try keep all points fact-based, no personal comments.

Edited October 4, 2019 by yoladu

[yoladu 4,094]

stupid double post

Edited October 4, 2019 by yoladu

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3,861]

Quote

the story is wild and getting more difficult to follow.

So, how about this exercise? Trying to sum this up in a tidy manner (10 bullet points or less):

1. The POTUS directed State Department officials to put pressure on the government of Ukraine to investigate a political rival's son for corruption. The POTUS also personally asked the Ukranian President to investigate, not only Biden, but Ukraine's supposed involvement in the 2016 US presidential Election (Crowdstrike).

2. the basis of said Biden corruption investigation is built on conspiracy theories and already de-bunked accusations. The basis of said Ukraine's involvement in the 2016 US Presidential Election is also widely considered a fringe theory.

3. The political rival is currently the leading the field of candidates to be the Democratic Nominee for President in 2020.

4. The Ukraine government was a) not sold there was anything credible to investigate & b) reluctant to get involved in American politics.

5. The POTUS held up payment of promised military aid, approved by Congress, to twist the arm of the Ukraine govt.

6.the Ukraine desperate for military aid, fed Rudy Giuliani, the President's "personal lawyer" and a private citizen, bogus intel on Biden (apparently) in a desperate attempt  to curry favor with the president.

7. Meanwhile, the POTUS said publicly suggested that our main geo-political rival China, an authoritarian government, should investigate Joe Biden (a political rival) and Hunter Biden.

8. The Ukraine pressure was so clearly criminal that two people involved have a mini-war over creating written records, one trying to say 'I think this is wrong to do quid pro quo' while the other creating the record of 'what quid pro quo stop texting'

9.

10.

I left 3 spaces open for the Unwashed Surly to add. Also, highlighted edits to points 1 - 7 are very much encouraged. Try keep all points fact-based, no personal comments.

 

[HOOK'EMHOOAH 1,610]

7 minutes ago, immamac said:

Why is this taking so long

Because people are stupid.

[triplehorn 2,664]

9. Had Zelensky played ball with Trump/Rudy/Barr, in principle it would have led to a rationale for Trump to lift sanctions on Russia for their 2016 election attack (the same sanctions Flynn discussed with Kislyak and lied about discussing when questioned by the FBI).

10.  Had Zelensky played ball, Trump/Putin would have then held compromise over Zelensky for his corrupt dealings.  This would give further leverage for Putin to encroach on Ukraine and use it to undermine Ukraine's candidacy to join NATO.

[yoladu 4,094]

 

1a. The POTUS directed State Department officials to put pressure on the government of Ukraine to investigate a political rival's son for corruption.

1b. The POTUS also personally asked the Ukranian President to investigate, not only Biden, but Ukraine's supposed involvement in the 2016 US presidential Election (Crowdstrike). Recorded communications between the POTUS and world leaders related to requests to investigate Joe Biden were considered so toxic by White House officials that they abandoned normal archiving procedures and stored the info on a independent secured computer/server

2. the basis of said Biden corruption investigation is built on conspiracy theories and already de-bunked accusations. The basis of said Ukraine's involvement in the 2016 US Presidential Election is also widely considered a fringe theory.

3. The political rival is currently the leading the field of candidates to be the Democratic Nominee for President in 2020.

4. The Ukraine government was a) not sold there was anything credible to investigate & b) reluctant to get involved in American politics.

5. The POTUS held up payment of promised military aid, approved by Congress, to twist the arm of the Ukraine govt.

6.the Ukraine desperate for military aid, fed Rudy Giuliani, the President's "personal lawyer" and a private citizen, bogus intel on Biden (apparently) in a desperate attempt  to curry favor with the president.

7. Meanwhile, the POTUS said publicly suggested that our main geo-political rival China, an authoritarian government, should investigate Joe Biden (a political rival) and Hunter Biden.

8. The Ukraine pressure was so clearly criminal that two people involved have a mini-war over creating written records, one trying to say 'I think this is wrong to do quid pro quo' while the other creating the record of 'what quid pro quo stop texting'

9. Had Zelensky played ball with Trump/Rudy/Barr, in principle it would have led to a rationale for Trump to lift sanctions on Russia for their 2016 election attack (the same sanctions Flynn discussed with Kislyak and lied about discussing when questioned by the FBI).

10.  Had Zelensky played ball, Trump/Putin would have then held compromise over Zelensky for his corrupt dealings.  This would give further leverage for Putin to encroach on Ukraine and use it to undermine Ukraine's candidacy to join NATO.

see bolded -  i felt the need to add the cover up which is pretty damn important)

Edited October 4, 2019 by yoladu

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

2 minutes ago, yoladu said:

9. Recorded communications between the POTUS and world leaders related to requests to investigate Joe Biden were considered so toxic by White House officials that they abandoned normal archiving procedures and stored the info on a independent secured computer/server. 

among other previous communications that were already stored on that server, abusing the classification power of the US govt

[zork 629]

50 minutes ago, immamac said:

Why is this taking so long

 

42 minutes ago, HOOK'EMHOOAH said:

Because people are stupid.

Can't Pelosi bring it to a vote?

[Bama Chick 28,596]

Why is this taking so long

It’s been literally one week since this blew up and the majority of Congress is on a two week recess?

[Mrs Whiggins 13,050]

4 minutes ago, zork said:

 

Can't Pelosi bring it to a vote?

Why would you want to do that before they are finished with their committee investigations? Do you vote on items on an agenda that you know nothing about? If so, can you come live in my neighborhood so I can raise your taxes for a pool I'd like in my backyard?

[Biff Tannen 45,685]

Are we still of the opinion that the Dem's best bet is to stretch this thing out so the public has the chance to see the malfeasance in a digestible way?

[triplehorn 2,664]

7 minutes ago, zork said:

 

Can't Pelosi bring it to a vote?

Above all, the smart play is, at a minimum, to wait for the courts to compel the forwarding of hard receipts to Congress that likely reveal Trump/Trump Org money laundering, bank fraud, and tax evasion (rulings expected Nov/Dec).

[henrygandorf 29,191]

41 minutes ago, yoladu said:

 

1a. The POTUS directed State Department officials to put pressure on the government of Ukraine to investigate a political rival's son for corruption.

1b. The POTUS also personally asked the Ukranian President to investigate, not only Biden, but Ukraine's supposed involvement in the 2016 US presidential Election (Crowdstrike). Recorded communications between the POTUS and world leaders related to requests to investigate Joe Biden were considered so toxic by White House officials that they abandoned normal archiving procedures and stored the info on a independent secured computer/server

2. the basis of said Biden corruption investigation is built on conspiracy theories and already de-bunked accusations. The basis of said Ukraine's involvement in the 2016 US Presidential Election is also widely considered a fringe theory.

3. The political rival is currently the leading the field of candidates to be the Democratic Nominee for President in 2020.

4. The Ukraine government was a) not sold there was anything credible to investigate & b) reluctant to get involved in American politics.

5. The POTUS held up payment of promised military aid, approved by Congress, to twist the arm of the Ukraine govt.

6.the Ukraine desperate for military aid, fed Rudy Giuliani, the President's "personal lawyer" and a private citizen, bogus intel on Biden (apparently) in a desperate attempt  to curry favor with the president.

7. Meanwhile, the POTUS said publicly suggested that our main geo-political rival China, an authoritarian government, should investigate Joe Biden (a political rival) and Hunter Biden.

8. The Ukraine pressure was so clearly criminal that two people involved have a mini-war over creating written records, one trying to say 'I think this is wrong to do quid pro quo' while the other creating the record of 'what quid pro quo stop texting'

9. Had Zelensky played ball with Trump/Rudy/Barr, in principle it would have led to a rationale for Trump to lift sanctions on Russia for their 2016 election attack (the same sanctions Flynn discussed with Kislyak and lied about discussing when questioned by the FBI).

10.  Had Zelensky played ball, Trump/Putin would have then held compromise over Zelensky for his corrupt dealings.  This would give further leverage for Putin to encroach on Ukraine and use it to undermine Ukraine's candidacy to join NATO.

see bolded -  i felt the need to add the cover up which is pretty damn important)

in many cases, the cover-up is worse than the crime.  in this case, they're both pretty fucking terrible, but they're actually aiding each other.

ukraine call -> released summary memo instead of transcript -> comes out that transcript is in codeword server -> calls in question what other "non-national-security" transcripts are in there -> leads to info that calls with saudi, russia, etc are in there -> opens the door to assume and suspect that trump has asked multiple countries for same assistance -> now we're in rise, repeat mode with china.

the ukraine call is bad (the texts are worse) but the existence of the transcript server is going to eventually link this to a much broader trend, and therefore cannot be ever labeled as an "isolated incident" or "off-hand remark on an otherwise benign congratulatory phone call".  i think your list is a good start, but this is going to look more like a cloud extending in different directions than a straightforward numbered list.

[triplehorn 2,664]

With helo loudly whirring in the background today:

Reporter: "Have you asked any foreign governments to investigate any corruption that DOESN'T involve your political opponents?"

Trump: "We'd have to look into that."

 

can't make this shit up.
 

[henrygandorf 29,191]

40 minutes ago, zork said:

Can't Pelosi bring it to a vote?

she can.

but it's my understanding that one of the possible articles of impeachment (possibly #2 with a bullet) will be obstruction of congress.  since subpoenas are still going out for testimony and documents, i would assume they would wait for at least that one to play out.

i also heard that in this stage, there can be some sort of guilt inference made from [lack of] cooperation.  that is to say, if documents are not submitted, or people refuse to testify, that can act almost like probable cause that the documents/testimony is damaging.

someone else can probably clear that up for me, because i don't remember exact details.