impeachment inquiry hearings thread

[Pig Bellmont 8738]

1 minute ago, Theo Huxtable said:

For fuck sake, go arrest Rudy already. He's done enough to warrant an arrest. Nothing would set off this hand grenade more and quicker than putting him in cuffs. Or subpoena him today and arrest him when he declines to show up. Again, let's get this grenade to go off already. Quit sitting the fuck around and moving so slowly. Make a big fucking move.

While SDNY acts independently, it’s still under the AG. Do you think Barr will allow the DOJ to arrest and indict Trump’s attorney?

[Huckleberry 33095]

17 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Yep. John Bolton will go down in history as having more integrity than almost all of the trump administration, save a few of the generals such as Mattis. 

Just ponder that one for a moment. 

Agreed. The man is a villain and an asshole but he believes in exactly what he says he believes in. He stands for something, even if that something is terrible.

[Dnaguy 12058]

32 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Yep. John Bolton will go down in history as having more integrity than almost all of the trump administration, save a few of the generals such as Mattis. 

Just ponder that one for a moment. 

 

Tallest midget, most gentle rapist, smartest microcephalic .... etc. 

[Goredho 17419]

14 hours ago, Party_Taco said:

Hoo boy, that quote...

It’s like we have a Walter White as President.  Well, a Walter White with Down’s syndrome.  I guess that makes Rudy his Jesse Pinkman.

[Goredho 17419]

5 hours ago, SuingToGetAMessageBoard? said:

Also, I feel like there’s a little bit of tension between “I have the right to face my accusers” and “I refuse to participate in this unconstitutional impeachment inquiry.”

What he’s really saying is, “Come on, guys!  Why won’t you let me obstruct?!  It was cool when I did it with Mueller’s investigation.  What’s the big deal now?”

Which is reason enough to eject his YUUUGE fat ass from the White House.

[Asithappens 974]

56 minutes ago, Captainant said:

maybe, just maybe, Rudy isn't the big fish they're trying to fry? 

So arrest him anyway and get him to squirm like the worm he is.

[Ghost of LL 15539]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Agreed. The man is a villain and an asshole but he believes in exactly what he says he believes in. He stands for something, even if that something is terrible.

And let me observe that it wasn't that long ago that I (and plenty of other people on this board) agreed with him.  I thought Iraq was a good idea.  I was wrong.  Maybe.  Perhaps it was just the way in which we carried it out that was in error.

But that is a discussion for another day.

What is pertinent here today is that Bolton has a worldview that he isn't going to change out of political expediency, like the rest of the GOP.  And he's been at it a long time.  He's been a high-ranking bureaucrat for more than 30 years.

He knows how to cover his ass.  He knows how to document shit.  And he knows how to leak.  He's not somebody you want to fuck with.

I think he naively went into this administration expecting that Trump was a moron (he is) who could be bent to Bolton's views (he isn't).  That was as foolish as going into Iraq with too few allies and too few troops.  And Bolton's not the kind of guy who's going to admit that he made a mistake with that; he's going to fight that fight to the bitter end.

[Brisketexan 105329]

21 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

And Bolton's not the kind of guy who's going to admit that he made a mistake with that; he's going to fight that fight to the bitter end.

You're goddamned right....

[SimonBolivar 10959]

 

[SimonBolivar 10959]

Looking good Rudy

 

[Biff Tannen 45734]

 

[SimonBolivar 10959]

3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

 

If he does ignore the subpoena and nothing happens then we've officially ceased to be a 3 branch government.

[Francisco 2.0 32428]

5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

 

 

Give me a  P, give me a A, give me a R......

[Longhorn_Fan68 33899]

3 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

Give me a  P, give me a A, give me a R......

parliamentarian?

[jimmyjazz 46130]

10 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

 

That's not actually true.  She served 18 months for contempt, because she refused to answer questions posed by the grand jury.  Then she served more prison time on earlier convictions.

[Biff Tannen 45734]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

That's not actually true.  She served 18 months for contempt, because she refused to answer questions posed by the grand jury.  Then she served more prison time on earlier convictions.

BUT THE INTERNET SAID SO

[softlynow 1826]

Just now, jimmyjazz said:

That's not actually true.  She served 18 months for contempt, because she refused to answer questions posed by the grand jury.  Then she served more prison time on earlier convictions.

But it's in meme format, it must be true! /everyone on facebook

[atomheartbevo 89792]

1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

What is pertinent here today is that Bolton has a worldview that he isn't going to change out of political expediency, like the rest of the GOP.  And he's been at it a long time.  He's been a high-ranking bureaucrat for more than 30 years.

He knows how to cover his ass.  He knows how to document shit.  And he knows how to leak.  He's not somebody you want to fuck with

A part of me wonders if he’s been leaking to the press already.  Because he is the person who he is, there’s no way he’s going down because of Trump and Rudy.  

Hell, I could see him stashing away a ton of documents and emails just for this exact scenario.  

[atomheartbevo 89792]

3 hours ago, Pig Bellmont said:

While SDNY acts independently, it’s still under the AG. Do you think Barr will allow the DOJ to arrest and indict Trump’s attorney?

Is Barr willing to throw everything he’s worked for away, in order to protect Rudy and Trump?

I get his mercenary act, but plenty of mercenary types tend to bail on bosses who are going down 

And is Barr, Trump, and Rudy willing to roll the dice with the Senate if Barr uses his power to bail Rudy out of trouble?

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

33 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

Looking good Rudy

 

Rudy isn't exactly beloved in NYC, got booed at the Yankees game IIRC so just get two yewts to come and bring him in.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33899]

 

[RomaVicta 30016]

18 hours ago, 4th&Five said:

“And in a sign the impeachment inquiry is widening, investigators were discussing whether to question John Bolton, Trump’s former national security adviser, according to people familiar with the matter. Bolton was Hill’s direct superior at the NSC.”

Remember Jared Kush's innocent mistake of trying to set up a "back channel" to the Russians? I believe a reasonable can conclude that his early administration "faux pas" is another link in the chain of Trump nefarious activities that extends from the Trump Tower meeting through whatever Manafort and Flynn were up to and now Rudy.

This is an ongoing conspiracy that Trump may successfully boil down to a single "perfect" phone call with no spoken quid pro quo upon which his base can hang their MAGA hats. 

It still astonishes me that the republic has got to a place where 60 million people support a clearly corrupt president just like they do their favorite NFL team through thick and thin. Their team ownership (remaining GOP establishment) can't afford to do the right thing or they won't be able to sell out the games.

Defense, Intelligence, and State professionals come forward likely destroying their careers and so very few of us even take notice.

Insane Idiot World

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Just now, atomheartbevo said:

Is Barr willing to throw everything he’s worked for away, in order to protect Rudy and Trump?

I get his mercenary act, but plenty of mercenary types tend to bail on bosses who are going down 

And is Barr, Trump, and Rudy willing to roll the dice with the Senate if Barr uses his power to bail Rudy out of trouble?

I would love to be proven wrong, but the Republican senators have been so extraordinarily quiet that I believe they have their game plan and it is to wait everything out no matter how dark it looks. The have the Senate and that is all they need. They weather that and throw all those millions at any swing states and they've got this. That doesn't include cheating.

This is what is left of the GOP and I don't know that there is one left who is not cravenly and cowardly addicted to the power and their agenda. You heard the speech Barr gave at Notre Dame Law. They are going to grab the evangelicals and all the others in the Trump crowd and keep full speed ahead. The only derailment I can see is if DJ has a health emergency. That's it. The HIC has so much info and is getting more, but unless Barr thinks he can stay on w/o getting pinned for something himself, I think they will roll the dice.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Rep to you @RomaVicta. You said that better than I ever could.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33899]

5 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I would love to be proven wrong, but the Republican senators have been so extraordinarily quiet that I believe they have their game plan and it is to wait everything out no matter how dark it looks. The have the Senate and that is all they need. They weather that and throw all those millions at any swing states and they've got this. That doesn't include cheating.

This is what is left of the GOP and I don't know that there is one left who is not cravenly and cowardly addicted to the power and their agenda. You heard the speech Barr gave at Notre Dame Law. They are going to grab the evangelicals and all the others in the Trump crowd and keep full speed ahead. The only derailment I can see is if DJ has a health emergency. That's it. The HIC has so much info and is getting more, but unless Barr thinks he can stay on w/o getting pinned for something himself, I think they will roll the dice.

nah, they'll jump when trump is no longer politically advantageous to them. it's already starting to happen

[Longhorn_Fan68 33899]

think this might have just gone up to 11:

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

5 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

nah, they'll jump when trump is no longer politically advantageous to them. it's already starting to happen

Do you really think so? I just hear a lot of "concern" commentary from Senators. The ones who have spoken at all, for the most part, are senators whose terms run past 2020. John Cornyn doubled down the last I read but I haven't kept up with him since I called his office. If the RNC calls again, some poor phone bank person is going to get an earful. I suppose a lot of courting goes on behind the scenes, but we haven't reached the vote yet and unless that is what they are waiting for, I am not optimistic.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33899]

1 minute ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Do you really think so? I just hear a lot of "concern" commentary from Senators. The ones who have spoken at all, for the most part, are senators whose terms run past 2020. John Cornyn doubled down the last I read but I haven't kept up with him since I called his office. If the RNC calls again, some poor phone bank person is going to get an earful. I suppose a lot of courting goes on behind the scenes, but we haven't reached the vote yet and unless that is what they are waiting for, I am not optimistic.

I mean, Congress did just return today. Also aunt Nancy is making an announcement at 6:30est today.

[deech 2291]

4 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

think this might have just gone up to 11:

 

So much for oaths of office....it's all about teams now.  Who is joining us on Brisket's' ledge?

[Longhorn_Fan68 33899]

now the fact that Pence and Pompeo are scheduled to be in Turkey, I think it was, tomorrow or Wed, seems a little more important. wonder if they try to defect

[RomaVicta 30016]

This is serious shit stone walling here.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

I'm bringing gin and tonic to the lanai. If anyone else is going to testify as long as Fiona Hill did, I want chaise lounges, not a ledge. I'm saving the ledge for the actual Impeachment. At least right now I am.

Edited October 15, 2019 by Mrs Whiggins
grammar

[Brisketexan 105329]

4 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

think this might have just gone up to 11:

 

Maybe.  Maybe not.

This is where we are.  The Admin will simply refuse to cooperate with any subpoena.  Congress can't make them comply  The courts can't make them comply. 

See, this is the fatal flaw in the rule of law: it only works if people are willing to comply with the orders and judgments of the courts.  Once they say "fuck you," then we're in a position where the only way to enforce compliance is literally with force.  US Marshals show up.  With badges and guns.  And Pence still says "no, you can't have them."  Then what?  US Marshals, squared off against the Secret Service, and perhaps private armed security (don't rule that out).  Do you want a gunfight between dueling US government forces?  Because....that's really, really fucking bad. At that point, we no longer have a legal issue.  We have an actual violent fight for supremacy of power.  No matter who wins, we the people have lost.  We are now officially a banana republic.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

This has got to be Barr. He knows exactly what to do, he has gone through this before. William Barr is a traitor to the oath and a disgrace. Change my mind.

[deech 2291]

1 minute ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

This has got to be Barr. He knows exactly what to do, he has gone through this before. William Barr is a traitor to the oath and a disgrace. Change my mind.

In fairness, the entire administration seems to be eering on the traitor side of the equation.  

The other side is the disgrace in letting Barr get confirmed.  Everyone should have voted no on both sides.

[RomaVicta 30016]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Maybe.  Maybe not.

This is where we are.  The Admin will simply refuse to cooperate with any subpoena.  Congress can't make them comply  The courts can't make them comply. 

See, this is the fatal flaw in the rule of law: it only works if people are willing to comply with the orders and judgments of the courts.  Once they say "fuck you," then we're in a position where the only way to enforce compliance is literally with force.  US Marshals show up.  With badges and guns.  And Pence still says "no, you can't have them."  Then what?  US Marshals, squared off against the Secret Service, and perhaps private armed security (don't rule that out).  Do you want a gunfight between dueling US government forces?  Because....that's really, really fucking bad. At that point, we no longer have a legal issue.  We have an actual violent fight for supremacy of power.  No matter who wins, we the people have lost.  We are now officially a banana republic.

Could Congress impeach based on this refusal of cooperation with oversight? Seems like it wouldn't take much to argue that this is an abuse of power or even a high crime against the functioning of the state. 

Seems you could also argue that the refusal to cooperate can be taken as evidence of guilt. It's not a court trial. 

If I'm close to being right about this, I think the House should proceed and impeach with whatever evidence they get. There is already damning testimony and likely more to come. Toss it to the Senate and let the GOPs sweat out the political mathematics of whether they should do the right thing.

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm likely way off.

[Brisketexan 105329]

Just now, RomaVicta said:

Could Congress impeach based on this refusal of cooperation with oversight? Seems like it wouldn't take much to argue that this is an abuse of power or even a high crime against the functioning of the state. 

Seems you could also argue that the refusal to cooperate can be taken as evidence of guilt. It's not a court trial. 

If I'm close to being right about this, I think the House should proceed and impeach with whatever evidence they get. There is already damning testimony and likely more to come. Toss it to the Senate and let the GOPs sweat out the political mathematics of whether they should do the right thing.

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm likely way off.

Sure.  See, here's the thing: the House can impeach for ANYTHING.  There is no binding authority otherwise.  Then, it's up to the Senate.

Which, as always, is where this breaks down.  The House could present evidence of the President murdering US soldiers for cash payments from Putin, with the cash handed to him on the same video, and they would acquit.  Because they are nothing without their base.  They are fully committed, beyond the point of no return.

[deech 2291]

4 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Could Congress impeach based on this refusal of cooperation with oversight? Seems like it wouldn't take much to argue that this is an abuse of power or even a high crime against the functioning of the state. 

Seems you could also argue that the refusal to cooperate can be taken as evidence of guilt. It's not a court trial. 

If I'm close to being right about this, I think the House should proceed and impeach with whatever evidence they get. There is already damning testimony and likely more to come. Toss it to the Senate and let the GOPs sweat out the political mathematics of whether they should do the right thing.

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm likely way off.

Might be worth voting to impeach Pence based solely on this than have the Senate vote it down.

[Bama Chick 28596]

I'm bringing gin and tonic to the lanai. If anyone else is going to testify as long as Fiona Hill did, I want chaise lounges, not a ledge. I'm saving the ledge for the actual Impeachment. At least right now I am.

Me and you, Resister Sister.

I’m bringing the Valium and White Claw my Beto merch and my Harry Styles collection.

If we’re going down, I’m gonna go out surrounded by my favorite things.

I’m basic like that.

[lemonlime 5503]

8 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Could Congress impeach based on this refusal of cooperation with oversight? Seems like it wouldn't take much to argue that this is an abuse of power or even a high crime against the functioning of the state. 

Seems you could also argue that the refusal to cooperate can be taken as evidence of guilt. It's not a court trial. 

If I'm close to being right about this, I think the House should proceed and impeach with whatever evidence they get. There is already damning testimony and likely more to come. Toss it to the Senate and let the GOPs sweat out the political mathematics of whether they should do the right thing.

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm likely way off.

Sure.  And not that I think there's much chance of the Senate GOP growing spines and voting to convict under any circumstances.  But assuming Pence is impeached, there's not a snowball's chance of conviction, because President Pelosi.

[RomaVicta 30016]

I know the House can't force the Senate to convict. I just want to confirm that the House is not stalemated by the refusals to testify or otherwise comply with subpoena.

Would the Senate be comfortable saying such subpoenas can be ignored thus diminishing the oversight power of their own house of Congress? Probably. There are likely so many of them dirty with this Eastern European graft that they mainly just care about avoiding or delaying their own perp walks.

I want to impeach for the same reason as before. Let's get a list of who stands where.

[SimonBolivar 10959]

18 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

now the fact that Pence and Pompeo are scheduled to be in Turkey, I think it was, tomorrow or Wed, seems a little more important. wonder if they try to defect

Now that would be fun to watch.

[atomheartbevo 89792]

44 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Do you really think so? I just hear a lot of "concern" commentary from Senators. The ones who have spoken at all, for the most part, are senators whose terms run past 2020. John Cornyn doubled down the last I read but I haven't kept up with him since I called his office. If the RNC calls again, some poor phone bank person is going to get an earful. I suppose a lot of courting goes on behind the scenes, but we haven't reached the vote yet and unless that is what they are waiting for, I am not optimistic.

Cornyn knows he could find himself in a tight race if Trump hurts the Rs and the rural can't come through.  I'm thinking he's decided that he can't win without Trumpkins, and his polling probably shows them bailing on him if he doesn't go down with the ship.

[atomheartbevo 89792]

17 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I know the House can't force the Senate to convict. I just want to confirm that the House is not stalemated by the refusals to testify or otherwise comply with subpoena.

Would the Senate be comfortable saying such subpoenas can be ignored thus diminishing the oversight power of their own house of Congress? Probably. There are likely so many of them dirty with this Eastern European graft that they mainly just care about avoiding or delaying their own perp walks.

I want to impeach for the same reason as before. Let's get a list of who stands where.

I could be wrong, but in this instance, Moscow Mitch cannot stop a Senate vote, and a Senate vote would, once and for all, force the Republicans to put their names down as being okay with this.

[WhatTheBuck 28798]

1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

Remember Jared Kush's innocent mistake of trying to set up a "back channel" to the Russians?

I'm not entirely convinced he wasn't successful in doing so. 

[Asithappens 974]

37 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

See, this is the fatal flaw in the rule of law: it only works if people are willing to comply with the orders and judgments of the courts. 

Not so fast, imo. 

We've been here before in our nation's history. The political arc is long and it bends toward the rule of law and all that. There are bumps in the road but the electorate (mostly) acts as a force to restore order. Let's see if that happens next election cycle.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

24 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

Sure.  And not that I think there's much chance of the Senate GOP growing spines and voting to convict under any circumstances.  But assuming Pence is impeached, there's not a snowball's chance of conviction, because President Pelosi.

Maybe that is their play then with the document stall? Keep Pence as safe as possible, get everything to the Senate and depending upon how the wind blows either impeach DJ and pardon or clear DJ and keep the criminal enterprise rolling.

 

@WhatTheBuck and/or @RomaVictais there a good source for where I can read more about that? The Kushner game, I mean?

[Brisketexan 105329]

9 minutes ago, Asithappens said:

Not so fast, imo. 

We've been here before in our nation's history. The political arc is long and it bends toward the rule of law and all that. There are bumps in the road but the electorate (mostly) acts as a force to restore order. Let's see if that happens next election cycle.

It bends....until it breaks.  History is built on the ashes of once powerful and functioning governments.  We aren't special.  There it is, the Great American Scandalous Truth -- we aren't exceptional, we aren't special.  We're just as susceptible to being brought down from within as any other historical power.  And continuing to believe that we''re NOT at risk is exactly how it all comes down.

 

[4th&Five 41589]

 

[TwiceHorn 31535]

3 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

And let me observe that it wasn't that long ago that I (and plenty of other people on this board) agreed with him.  I thought Iraq was a good idea.  I was wrong.  Maybe.  Perhaps it was just the way in which we carried it out that was in error.

But that is a discussion for another day.

What is pertinent here today is that Bolton has a worldview that he isn't going to change out of political expediency, like the rest of the GOP.  And he's been at it a long time.  He's been a high-ranking bureaucrat for more than 30 years.

He knows how to cover his ass.  He knows how to document shit.  And he knows how to leak.  He's not somebody you want to fuck with.

I think he naively went into this administration expecting that Trump was a moron (he is) who could be bent to Bolton's views (he isn't).  That was as foolish as going into Iraq with too few allies and too few troops.  And Bolton's not the kind of guy who's going to admit that he made a mistake with that; he's going to fight that fight to the bitter end.

Yep.   A zealot.  A lunatic.  An asshole.  But lacking integrity, no.

And a longtime civil servant and government pro.