impeachment inquiry hearings thread

[jimmyjazz 46111]

2 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

Step 1) Put Trump's shit on blast in the House over Ukraine.

Step 2) Impeach him.

Step 3) Send it over to Mitch.

Step 4) While the Senate is conducting their show trial, put Trump's shit on blast over Turkey/Emoluments/Obstruction of the Russia investigation/Pick any of the others.

Step 5) Impeach him again.

Step 6) Send it over to Mitch. 

Repeat until public outcry forces Mitch's hand or every citizen in the county is aware that the GOP is keeping a criminal in office and every citizen has taken a side. 

That's a worse idea than Schiff's "paraphrase" of Trump's phone call (which has generated the exact outcome some of us predicted).

The last thing the Dems need to do is to appear to be playing petty games.  Draft the articles of impeachment, vote, and send it to the Senate.  Done.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

The Republicans are playing petty games by not removing Trump. 

Edited October 26, 2019 by Hugo Stiglitz

[suddenly shaggy 929]

4 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That's a worse idea than Schiff's "paraphrase" of Trump's phone call (which has generated the exact outcome some of us predicted).

The last thing the Dems need to do is to appear to be playing petty games.  Draft the articles of impeachment, vote, and send it to the Senate.  Done.

How the fuck is that a game? That's their fucking job. They took an oath and it doesn't have an out clause for the Senate not doing their job.

Trump keeps committing crimes, keep impeaching him. His behavior has already been normalized FAR more than it should have been. 

[TwiceHorn 31533]

12 minutes ago, elfenix said:

You could win your case but appeal the damage award as being too small.

 

Technically mandamus isn't an appeal, it's an original proceeding. Basically it's when a government agent who has no discretion on whether or how to act (so, statute says "shall") doesn't do what they're supposed to. You then file suit against that agent. For clerks or anyone but courts the case is filed in trial court. If it's against a court, it's filed in an appellate court.

 

Sometimes a writ of mandamus is filed (like an appeal) before there is a winner or loser in a case, on something like an attorney-client privilege ruling, for example.

But, it does mean that the applicant for the writ lost on something.  Someone's ox is getting gored or there's little reason for the writ.

And, weirdly enough, when the loser appeals, the winner frequently cross-appeals, raising its own issues for appeal, like damages, or some other ruling that was disadvantageous.

(more for gandorf than el fenix, he knows whats up).

[elfenix 34331]

yeah i lost my motion pointing out that the court had lost jurisdiction, so had to mandamus the judge.  won that.  weird situation. 

[Jameslaw121 4448]

go on..

[jimmyjazz 46111]

10 minutes ago, suddenly shaggy said:

How the fuck is that a game? That's their fucking job. They took an oath and it doesn't have an out clause for the Senate not doing their job.

Trump keeps committing crimes, keep impeaching him. His behavior has already been normalized FAR more than it should have been. 

Sure, if he commits new crimes after the articles are drafted.  But you're proposing they repeat the cycle on malfeasance that is already known.  Sorry, that's playing games, and it will backfire.  It will cement the already common idea that this is nothing but a circus.

[deech 2291]

For those clowns like Gaetz and Gohmert...............

 

 

[suddenly shaggy 929]

15 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

Sure, if he commits new crimes after the articles are drafted.  But you're proposing they repeat the cycle on malfeasance that is already known.  Sorry, that's playing games, and it will backfire.  It will cement the already common idea that this is nothing but a circus.

Disagree.

He commits Emoluments violations numerous times every day. That is a current event.

Trump just sold the Kurds up the river and established conclusively and very publicly that no one should ever trust us long-term as an ally.  Trump let our allies get slaughtered and gave Putin what the Russians have wanted forever, an expanded, secure footprint in the Middle East. That's a current event. 

The reason I mentioned Russia is because new shit is coming to light. The House is finally finding out that McGahn and Jr. never testified to the Grand Jury and gaining the authority to compel their testimony. As triplehorn has pointed out, Roger Stone's trial is about to begin. 

Put Trump/GOP shit on blast and keep it there. 

[jimmyjazz 46111]

But your proposal was to send no emoluments or Russia articles to the Senate at first, even though we currently know plenty of impeachable offenses that have occurred.  I agree, if new testimony reveals major bombshells, send them over too.

[TwiceHorn 31533]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

But your proposal was to send no emoluments or Russia articles to the Senate at first, even though we currently know plenty of impeachable offenses that have occurred.  I agree, if new testimony reveals major bombshells, send them over too.

I think that's pretty astute.  There's nothing in the impeachment law or rules that says you can't do it serially, over and over again.  No compulsory joinder of claims or res judicata, etc.

But I think normal notions of due process and justice are that at a given time, you bring what "charges" or articles you have or want to bring and don't bring it again unless there are new facts or acts, hopefully of a different character or quality than the prior charges.

To do it serially is kind of suspect and vulnerable to legitimate criticism.

[suddenly shaggy 929]

23 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

But your proposal was to send no emoluments or Russia articles to the Senate at first, even though we currently know plenty of impeachable offenses that have occurred.  I agree, if new testimony reveals major bombshells, send them over too.

I personally think they should hit a broad impeachment, but that's not what's going to happen. Pelosi has made it crystal clear that she wants a narrow impeachment, preferably only Ukraine. The only reason that isn't happening is because the Russian and Ukrainian crime sprees are so tightly entwined. To a sense, she's right, if you impeach Trump for everything he's done/doing, you will never get a vote, because he will continue committing crimes until the day he dies. Probably as a corporate entity for a while longer.

However, that normalizes everything else and lets Mitch pretend this is a political witch hunt, which makes it politically palatable for him to hold a quick vote and wash his hands of it. The only way to guarantee public hearings on this, is for the House to hold them. 

What I was proposing was a way to do both. It gives Pelosi her narrow and quick impeachment, while not normalizing his actions. It also gives the Senate the ability to end the insanity and national security threats as quickly as possible, should they decide to start pretending to be patriotic adults again for re-election purposes. 

Edited October 26, 2019 by suddenly shaggy

[triplehorn 2664]

1 hour ago, deech said:

 

 

Keep in mind ----> McGahn is the top of the pyramid of high value witnesses from the Mueller report on Trump serial obstruction of justice, and arguably the hardest to compel to testify to Congress.  If the former WH counsel has to testify, the compelled testimonies of all the other Mueller witnesses defying Congress should rapidly follow suit.

If not mistaken, judge Beryl Howell rules on McGahn testimony to the House in six days. 

Marcy Wheeler thinks it's likely we'll see McGahn testify to Congress:

Edited October 26, 2019 by triplehorn

[henrygandorf 29194]

1 hour ago, suddenly shaggy said:

I personally think they should hit a broad impeachment, but that's not what's going to happen. Pelosi has made it crystal clear that she wants a narrow impeachment, preferably only Ukraine. The only reason that isn't happening is because the Russian and Ukrainian crime sprees are so tightly entwined. To a sense, she's right, if you impeach Trump for everything he's done/doing, you will never get a vote, because he will continue committing crimes until the day he dies. Probably as a corporate entity for a while longer.

However, that normalizes everything else and lets Mitch pretend this is a political witch hunt, which makes it politically palatable for him to hold a quick vote and wash his hands of it. The only way to guarantee public hearings on this, is for the House to hold them. 

What I was proposing was a way to do both. It gives Pelosi her narrow and quick impeachment, while not normalizing his actions. It also gives the Senate the ability to end the insanity and national security threats as quickly as possible, should they decide to start pretending to be patriotic adults again for re-election purposes. 

chatter is that they're starting to compile the articles.  not sure exactly how that process works, but the gop is definitely bitching and whining about speeding up the process, at least to get it out in the open before the holidays.

if i was schiff, i would make a statement every few days with an update.  and every update would be about how there are so many witnesses because people are just tired of the corruption, and they want to give everyone an opportunity to come forward. 

and when they bitch that the articles are taking too long, come out and say that with this much corruption, it takes a long time.  this isn't simple like johnson, nixon, and clinton.  this type of constant systematic corruption requires extra attention.  and that it's too important for the future of our republic to make sure america gets to the truth.

[achooloco 1083]

15 hours ago, horncyclist said:

President Pelosi would be a political disaster. 

Eh... after this presidency, can you claim some one was a failure if they don’t admit it? A racist shit goblin raper who tortures children and fantasies about fucking his daughter after paying off a porn star (while the wife was pregnant) gets support from 35% of the country. There is no political disaster anymore. New paradigm, new rules. 

even if our country  can recover, I’m not sure people can adhere to the unwritten and explicit rules trump and his retarded supporters have broken

[Bookman 4639]

4 hours ago, achooloco said:

Eh... after this presidency, can you claim some one was a failure if they don’t admit it? A racist shit goblin raper who tortures children and fantasies about fucking his daughter after paying off a porn star (while the wife was pregnant) gets support from 35% of the country. There is no political disaster anymore. New paradigm, new rules. 

even if our country  can recover, I’m not sure people can adhere to the unwritten and explicit rules trump and his retarded supporters have broken

All you need is to research what people want to hear, and then have a charismatic say those things.

[achooloco 1083]

Yeah this is new territory that in a way the founders anticipated but also didn’t. Now sure how to get people to feel shame if they are hearing what they want to hear from a politician. I know it’s one of the reasons for the EC but people hate that so not sure what’s the answer...or even if that’s for a different thread. 

[kevwun 15863]

The founders anticipated having to remove a President who was treasonously plotting with foreign countries.  They were worried someone would do it in their own lifetimes with England.  They never anticipated a President who was also a grifting moron and had an attorney general that behaved like a mob consiglierie. 

[triplehorn 2664]

Witnesses scheduled to appear as part of impeachment inquiry:

 

Saturday - Philip Reeker, the acting assistant secretary of European and Eurasian affairs at the State Department.

Monday - Charles M. Kupperman, who served until last month as the deputy national security adviser at the White House.

Tuesday - Alexander Vindman, the director for European affairs at the N.S.C.

Wednesday - Kathryn Wheelbarger, the acting assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs

Thursday - Timothy Morrison, senior director for Europe and Russia on the National Security Council (replaced Fiona Hill)

Sunday 11/5 - Michael Duffy, Office of Management and Budget official

Monday 11/6 - Russell Vought Office of Management and Budget official

Subpoena to appear Monday 11/6 - Ulrich Brechbuhl, Department of State Counselor

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

8 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

chatter is that they're starting to compile the articles.  not sure exactly how that process works, but the gop is definitely bitching and whining about speeding up the process, at least to get it out in the open before the holidays.

if i was schiff, i would make a statement every few days with an update.  and every update would be about how there are so many witnesses because people are just tired of the corruption, and they want to give everyone an opportunity to come forward. 

and when they bitch that the articles are taking too long, come out and say that with this much corruption, it takes a long time.  this isn't simple like johnson, nixon, and clinton.  this type of constant systematic corruption requires extra attention.  and that it's too important for the future of our republic to make sure america gets to the truth.

I like this take. With the budget deadline casting its shadow, the timing will be dicey. On a related note, isn't there a thread in Daily Texan about the holidays? In homes all across America, this Thanksgiving will be uh ... interesting.

[bolverk 29717]

7 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I like this take. With the budget deadline casting its shadow, the timing will be dicey. On a related note, isn't there a thread in Daily Texan about the holidays? In homes all across America, this Thanksgiving will be uh ... interesting.

Oh, Thanksgiving will be a joy -- what with the fact that my parents will have just returned from their RV trip to Kentucky to see both the creationism museum and that replica of Noah's Ark while passing through Branson to enjoy a few shows on their way home to West Texas. I'm sure they'll be ready and willing to discuss all the new evidence of their "chosen one" president being a fucking fraudster by then.

[triplehorn 2664]

More validation House Dems approached this the right way from the start - allowing the WH to demonstrate more heavy handed approaches are required, even if it has taken longer to get the desired results via the Courts:

 

 

[henrygandorf 29194]

the rumor was always that stonewalling would start to cost them if and when they moved to an actual inquiry phase.  those chickens have finally come home to roost. 

[TwiceHorn 31533]

Yep, he's gone beyond the pale of "strong executive" into abuse of power.  It's been abusive for a long time, but was semi-defensible as strong executive.

Frankly, I think the fucker needs impeaching worse than Nixon did.  The sum total of his abuses exceeds Nixon's in my mind.

Edited October 26, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[henrygandorf 29194]

10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Frankly, I think the fucker needs impeaching worse than Nixon did.  The sum total of his abuses exceeds Nixon's in my mind.

shit, people were saying this before the ukraine stuff broke. 

[HenryJames 66164]

 

[horncyclist 1391]

2 minutes ago, henrygandorf said:

shit, people were saying this before the ukraine stuff broke. 

This will come down to a political calculation for Senate republicans. It's clear they don't give a shit about their country so it's just going to be what makes it more likely they can hold on to power--or limit the losses of power. I think we're getting close to a tipping point there. In addition to Romney and some other moderates, we should keep an eye on republicans up for election in 2020 in possibly competitive states. If those Senators start publicly hedging their support for Trump, we're edging closer to a forced resignation/removal situation.

https://cookpolitical.com/ratings/senate-race-ratings

[atomheartbevo 89783]

1 hour ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I like this take. With the budget deadline casting its shadow, the timing will be dicey. On a related note, isn't there a thread in Daily Texan about the holidays? In homes all across America, this Thanksgiving will be uh ... interesting.

If Trump tries another shutdown, it will be another reminder to a shit-ton of federal employees, their families, and friends, of the previous one, it'll be coming during the holidays, which will really piss these people people off even more, and it'll again  piss of a shitload of government contractors.  

The lobbyists will make their anger known to Congress - lest we forget, he didn't get his precious wall before.  

This time though, for him, it'll be personal if it at all affects the impeachment process.  And you just know that if it impacts the House inquiries, Dumb-fuck Donnie will not be able to resist shouting from the rooftops (twitter) than he's found a way to stick it to Schifty Schitty Schiff, and you know he will keep it going.

And if that happens, Republicans in Congress can't really ignore him shutting down the government to try and protect himself.  They don't need all of those lobbyists looking at tossing money to their their primary and general election challengers, not to mention really pissed-off voters looking to take it out on the GOP.

[atomheartbevo 89783]

20 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Must be driving Trump nuts, knowing he hasn't been able to stop these people from testifying.   He ran into a process he really couldn't stop simply by refusing to cooperate.

[tantric superman 4667]

4 hours ago, bolverk said:

Oh, Thanksgiving will be a joy -- what with the fact that my parents will have just returned from their RV trip to Kentucky to see both the creationism museum and that replica of Noah's Ark while passing through Branson to enjoy a few shows on their way home to West Texas. I'm sure they'll be ready and willing to discuss all the new evidence of their "chosen one" president being a fucking fraudster by then.

Don't get any turducken juice on your shirt.

[Degenerate Gardner 4085]

2 hours ago, HenryJames said:

 

The Trump machine is unapologetically stuck in Permanent Obstruct mode. It's quite a thing to behold, like a mushroom cloud. 

[bolverk 29717]

11 minutes ago, tantric superman said:

Don't get any turducken juice on your shirt.

If I could still fit in it, I'd wear this gotdam t-shirt I bought 25-something years ago. I know it's crammed somewhere in the back of my closet...

 

[atomheartbevo 89783]

10 minutes ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

The Trump machine is unapologetically stuck in Permanent Obstruct mode. It's quite a thing to behold, like a mushroom cloud. 

The beautiful thing is, they keep telling these people not to show up and testify, and these folks keep saying "oops, got a subpoena, gotta testify, LOL!"

Just wait for the Bolton testimony.  Trump will be going through infrastructure week multiple times that day.

[Bama Chick 28596]

They’re working today -

[HenryJames 66164]

 

[henrygandorf 29194]

2 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

trump's "where is the whistleblower" tantrum is gonna be really funny when he eventually comes forward as the absolute hero of this whole circus.

once the information was out there, it essentially gave everyone the "all clear" to come out and tell the truth.  nobody wanted to be the first, and probably put themselves and their families in danger.  but now the dam has broken.  interesting how the stonewalling completely stopped after the complaint came out.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

1 hour ago, henrygandorf said:

trump's "where is the whistleblower" tantrum is gonna be really funny when he eventually comes forward as the absolute hero of this whole circus.

once the information was out there, it essentially gave everyone the "all clear" to come out and tell the truth.  nobody wanted to be the first, and probably put themselves and their families in danger.  but now the dam has broken.  interesting how the stonewalling completely stopped after the complaint came out.

Considering some of the threatening rhetoric coming out of the WH for the entire summer (about journalists, representatives, the controversy surrounding Epstein's death-he died two days before the complaint was filed, etc, etc) I can't blame someone for being a little reluctant for trying to stay out of the limelight.

[atomheartbevo 89783]

2 hours ago, henrygandorf said:

trump's "where is the whistleblower" tantrum is gonna be really funny when he eventually comes forward as the absolute hero of this whole circus.

once the information was out there, it essentially gave everyone the "all clear" to come out and tell the truth.  nobody wanted to be the first, and probably put themselves and their families in danger.  but now the dam has broken.  interesting how the stonewalling completely stopped after the complaint came out.

When you’re playing musical chairs, you don’t want to be left standing when the music stops.   

[HenryJames 66164]

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Nunes serves himself and the GOP before the country. As ranking member on the HIC,  he grandstands about the 'witch hunt' instead of trying to unearth the truth. The person who met with Flynn and had to recuse himself during the previous inquiry is a useful tool for the criminals in the WH.

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

Former deputy national security adviser, Charles Kupperman, filed a lawsuit regarding his subpoena to testify. How long do you think that will take to be decided? He did ask the court to expedite the decision, but for sure it will delay his testimony. Also to come are Alexander Vindman and Tim Morrison from the NSC. Apparently Morrison and Taylor shared phone calls?

The deadline for the grand jury testimony from the Mueller report is this week as well- October 30.

 

[sachick 1189]

[HenryJames 66164]

 

[DixonHur 11364]

House voting on moving forward with impeachment on Thursday.  Wonder what the next GOP talking points will be once the "process" argument is dead.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

is that paper landscape?

[sachick 1189]

7 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Be careful what you wish for, you may get it.

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

i think he's going to be convicted in the senate. 

[jimmyjazz 46111]

20 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

House voting on moving forward with impeachment on Thursday.  Wonder what the next GOP talking points will be once the "process" argument is dead.

First, they will howl that any and all testimony taken prior to Thursday is null and void.  Then, Gym Jordan and Matt Gaetz will don Nancy and Chuck masks and wrestle naked on the steps of the Capitol Building while Trey Gowdy and Lindsey Graham churn butter and recite passages from Leviticus.

[sachick 1189]

52 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

First, they will howl that any and all testimony taken prior to Thursday is null and void.  Then, Gym Jordan and Matt Gaetz will don Nancy and Chuck masks and wrestle naked on the steps of the Capitol Building while Trey Gowdy and Lindsey Graham churn butter and recite passages from Leviticus.

You're correct on the first part, we'll see about the rest.

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by sachick

[atomheartbevo 89783]

Fun seeing the GOP play tic-tac-toe while the Dems play chess.