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henrygandorf

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 10958

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So the talking point is that it's odd that a foreign policy expert cared about a potential NATO ally that is currently being invaded by Russia? It's stupid, but it'll work because I doubt the average citizen could find Ukraine on a map, much less understand the finer points between NATO/Ukraine/Russian relations.

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TexasEd
TexasEd

I voted for Trump/Against Hilary Clinton.   He should be impeached for: Extortion of a foreign government by withholding military assistance to an ally (and benefitting Russia) in exchange

Paul Wesley
Paul Wesley

I'm a couple pages back in this fast-moving thread, but I wanted to respond to this.   I'm pretty close to you in demographics, and I was also a child who echoed his parents' pro-Reagan stance, a

Tailgate
Tailgate

Unreal. Biden’s son can take home $1m a year from a Ukrainian company he knows nothing about...but our president acts like the CEO of a company with leverage in cutting deals and this shit happens?

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sachick

sachick 1189

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2 minutes ago, SimonBolivar said:

So the talking point is that it's odd that a foreign policy expert cared about a potential NATO ally that is currently being invaded by Russia? It's stupid, but it'll work because I doubt the average citizen could find Ukraine on a map, much less understand the finer points between NATO/Ukraine/Russian relations.

This foreign policy expert also happens to be foreign born and we know they're feelings on immigrants.

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Js1

Js1 85336

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6 minutes ago, sachick said:

This foreign policy expert also happens to be foreign born and we know they're feelings on immigrants.

Yes, such as Ted Cruz or Elaine Chao, neither of which served in the military or received Purple Hearts. 

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89665

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7 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

The only Ukrainians you can trust:

spacer.png

The thing that always struck me about this photo, is that Don Jr seems like he knows this photo is a bad idea.   He probably couldn’t articulate why it was a bad idea, but deep down, he had an uneasy sense that it was a bad idea. 

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horn4life

horn4life 3760

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Each step further down the rabbit hole the GOP takes amazes me.  As I honestly used to believe there was a point where duty to country usurped devotion to party.  

Now about the only real question is whether the GOP strategy to pretend that what they are seeing and hearing is NOT what they are seeing and hearing will hold day after day of public hearings?  While I am certain that Trump has no shame, and that there are a great many other elected GOP representatives have also shown they have no shame, are there some that do have shame? 

Right now Sunderland is desperately wishing he could turn state witness, retract his prior testimony and tell the truth about everything and say he was just following orders.  Sunderland is completely and totally fucked at this point, as clearly he was less than completely honest in his prior testimony from what his been gleaned simply from witness opening statements.  The real problem for the GOP is that the more evidence that comes out it consistently represents the same reality, the President used the leverage of holding back military aid in order to induce a foreign country to investigate his presumed 2020 election rival's son for personal political gain.

Will the truth be enough?  Will the obvious fact that the President abused his power in a corrupt and illegal way make a dent on the shame monitor? The answer is NO it will not.  What very well may happen is that Fox new will be unable to simply reprogram away from impeachment coverage to the lies and conspiracy theories.  So the messages will not be distilled and manipulated by foreigners, and instead an unfiltered stream of repetitive confirmation of corruption and abuse of power will simply drone on.  Slowly but surely the polls will begin to shift, more and more in favor of removal.  At the same time the ever shrinking base of the GOP will be even more fervently devoted to the President as no amount of proof of guilt would ever penetrate.  

I do not think there will ultimately be enough votes in the Senate to convict Trump and remove him.  I do however believe that the obvious Hypocrisy and corruption of the Republican Party as a whole will be on full display to the American Public.  Ultimately I do not believe there is enough shame nor honor to convince elected Republicans to put country before party. I do however, believe that many of those with stronger morals and principles will not support the GOP in 2020.  I think you are going to see a sea change in down ballot elections in states that have been more red than blue.  The House is going to go strongly to the Dems, Senate moves (barely)to the Dems and President moves to the Dems side as well. Then the Dems try to clean up the usual fucked up mess the GOP hands off before Republicans then begin insisting on budget austerity because their beloved tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires blew a hole in the budget and accumlated massive deficits in a time of plenty.  

Wish I had a more optimistic outlook, but the serial way Republicans  (elected and unelected) can pretend the truth is not the truth is not going to be something fixed anytime soon.

 

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Dnaguy

Dnaguy 11964

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15 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

yes, who is married to the chick from rw: san francisco that hooked up with puck.

And I guess she also works for Fox News.... which makes now 2 MTV personalities (Kennedy being the 1st) that work for it.

You know how you know that you’re old? Folks from the channel that captured the zeitgeist of your youth are now figures on conservative propaganda TV.

n2qrrdx9z0n01.jpg

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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

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1 hour ago, sachick said:

These republicans are going to be sore from all the twisting and turning they have to do to discredit every person that speaks against Trump.

 

ok, we're gonna call ukraine, who should listen in?

well, the protocol is to have everyone on the ukraine desk.

...3 months later...

i find it particularly odd that this person who had a specific interest and knowledge of ukraine just happened to be listening in on the ukraine call.  whose side is he on??!  what is he hiding?!?

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mdmost

mdmost 43001

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That's a really long play for Russia/Ukraine to send over a 3 year old, force him to go be an Iraq War veteran, get a job at the highest levels of the US government, and then wait till just the right moment to affect US politics. Well played Russia/Ukraine. 

Edited by mdmost
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henrygandorf

henrygandorf 29191

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9 minutes ago, mdmost said:

That's a really long play for Russia/Ukraine to send over a 3 year old, force him to go by an Iraq War veteran, get a job at the highest levels of the US government, and then wait till moment to affect US politics. Well played Russia/Ukraine. 

in soviet russia, sacrifice makes you.

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lemonlime

lemonlime 5503

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24 minutes ago, mdmost said:

That's a really long play for Russia/Ukraine to send over a 3 year old, force him to go be an Iraq War veteran, get a job at the highest levels of the US government, and then wait till just the right moment to affect US politics. Well played Russia/Ukraine. 

As a refugee first.  So they mistreated him for the first 3 years of his life, to get his family to flee the USSR, all in a giant game of 400 D chess.

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RomaVicta

RomaVicta 29907

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35 minutes ago, sachick said:

I do appreciate Vindman arriving in full uniform. Reminding everyone who he is.

92eacd914f065ce16e97f03f73245357.jpg

My father who served during WWII (never left Texas, though) told me about that blue Combat Infantryman Badge which is the pride of any soldier no matter how high up they go. Shows you were in the shit and distinguishes you as a fighting soldier. The war ended before Dad could get his.

I'm glad I learned that from someone who served as I never have myself. Respect to any person wearing that badge. They pay prices we can only imagine.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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There’s also a big reason why it’s sewn in permanently in combat fatigues/digital camo, while almost all other medals or honors are left to dress uniforms.  
 

I am only confident of two things with regard to this testimony.  One is that Trump will not hesitate to attack a veteran and combat hero, and soon after his base will begin turning on the military and questioning its command structure.  And second because he keeps bringing up the Colonels birthplace, and hasn’t seem to be working very much lately according to his official schedule—-The other thing I’m confident in is that Trump has been binge watching the Americans.  And I actually don’t hold that part against him Especially because you get to see Carrie Russell’s ass a few times

 

 

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45948

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4 minutes ago, Lobo said:

One is that Trump will not hesitate to attack a veteran and combat hero, and soon after his base will begin turning on the military and questioning its command structure.

He's probably stupid enough to do it, too.  If his long game is as vile as many have suggested, he's probably gonna wish he had the military's full support, regardless of what chain of command dictates.

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 25938

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43 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

My father who served during WWII (never left Texas, though) told me about that blue Combat Infantryman Badge which is the pride of any soldier no matter how high up they go. Shows you were in the shit and distinguishes you as a fighting soldier. The war ended before Dad could get his.

I'm glad I learned that from someone who served as I never have myself. Respect to any person wearing that badge. They pay prices we can only imagine.

Yep, dad always wore his with his Jumpmaster and pathfinder badges on his dress uniforms. He has some pretty bad ass other ones but those were rotated. Never the CIB.  

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InkaUtexas

InkaUtexas 25938

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3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

He's probably stupid enough to do it, too.  If his long game is as vile as many have suggested, he's probably gonna wish he had the military's full support, regardless of what chain of command dictates.

he will piss off the brass. Just wait to see when units from Bragg are redeploying up I95. 

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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6 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

He's probably stupid enough to do it, too.  If his long game is as vile as many have suggested, he's probably gonna wish he had the military's full support, regardless of what chain of command dictates.

They deported the *Marine with PTSD recently, so it''s not like they won't find a way to send Vindman back, discredit him, whatever. They don't care. The most obvious play in their manual is called Save Your Skin. The second most obvious play in their manual is WIIFM. What's in it for me. They have a lot of plays, most of them are garbage because in real life, 'winning' is about more than just yourself, or even some fictional 'team.'

 

*His story, like most stories, is complicated but covered elsewhere in other threads.

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SimonBolivar

SimonBolivar 10958

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Regardless of quid pro quo and all the legality of this. Trump should lose the next election based solely on the fact that he can tweet all morning and watch Fox News, but doesn't have the time to meet with the president of a potential ally that lies in a buffer zone between NATO and Russia unless they do him a favor.

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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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Posted
Patriotism
Fiscal spending
Family values
Republicans can't be taken seriously about any of these issues moving forward. Hypocrites...


Hint - this current behavior, while blatant, isn’t new. They’ve always been two-faced, mealy mouthed, do as I say, not as I do fuckholes.
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Mdhorn

Mdhorn 5949

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, horn4life said:

Each step further down the rabbit hole the GOP takes amazes me.  As I honestly used to believe there was a point where duty to country usurped devotion to party.  

Now about the only real question is whether the GOP strategy to pretend that what they are seeing and hearing is NOT what they are seeing and hearing will hold day after day of public hearings?  While I am certain that Trump has no shame, and that there are a great many other elected GOP representatives have also shown they have no shame, are there some that do have shame? 

Right now Sunderland is desperately wishing he could turn state witness, retract his prior testimony and tell the truth about everything and say he was just following orders.  Sunderland is completely and totally fucked at this point, as clearly he was less than completely honest in his prior testimony from what his been gleaned simply from witness opening statements.  The real problem for the GOP is that the more evidence that comes out it consistently represents the same reality, the President used the leverage of holding back military aid in order to induce a foreign country to investigate his presumed 2020 election rival's son for personal political gain.

Will the truth be enough?  Will the obvious fact that the President abused his power in a corrupt and illegal way make a dent on the shame monitor? The answer is NO it will not.  What very well may happen is that Fox new will be unable to simply reprogram away from impeachment coverage to the lies and conspiracy theories.  So the messages will not be distilled and manipulated by foreigners, and instead an unfiltered stream of repetitive confirmation of corruption and abuse of power will simply drone on.  Slowly but surely the polls will begin to shift, more and more in favor of removal.  At the same time the ever shrinking base of the GOP will be even more fervently devoted to the President as no amount of proof of guilt would ever penetrate.  

I do not think there will ultimately be enough votes in the Senate to convict Trump and remove him.  I do however believe that the obvious Hypocrisy and corruption of the Republican Party as a whole will be on full display to the American Public.  Ultimately I do not believe there is enough shame nor honor to convince elected Republicans to put country before party. I do however, believe that many of those with stronger morals and principles will not support the GOP in 2020.  I think you are going to see a sea change in down ballot elections in states that have been more red than blue.  The House is going to go strongly to the Dems, Senate moves (barely)to the Dems and President moves to the Dems side as well. Then the Dems try to clean up the usual fucked up mess the GOP hands off before Republicans then begin insisting on budget austerity because their beloved tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires blew a hole in the budget and accumlated massive deficits in a time of plenty.  

Wish I had a more optimistic outlook, but the serial way Republicans  (elected and unelected) can pretend the truth is not the truth is not going to be something fixed anytime soon.

 

I wish I shared in your optimism but I simply can't believe that polling stations aren't rigged in some way.  They'll just shut down more stations, discredit ballots or purge voters but by hook or crook, it will not be a fair election.

Edited by Mdhorn
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Irwin F Fletcher

Irwin F Fletcher 3550

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Link to the resolution on moving forward with the impeachment inquiry in the House. 

-Authorizes House Intel to make deposition transcripts public -Creates process for committees to transmit their evidence to Judiciary Committee -Provides additional time for staffers to question witnesses (45 mins per side)

-Gives minority same rights as majority to question witnesses -Allows WH counsel to participate when process moves to Judiciary -Directs Judiciary to review evidence and potentially report articles of impeachment to the House -Does *not lay out a timeline for next steps

 

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1189256704766201857

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Mrs Whiggins

Mrs Whiggins 13050

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9 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

I wish I shared in your optimism but I simply can't believe that polling stations aren't rigged in some way.  They'll just shut down more stations, discredit ballots or purge voters but by hook or crook, it will not be a fair election.

I agree. A lot of voters are fed up, but the site closures are real, voter purges are real, and election software hacking seems to be way more problematic than voter fraud. I think the reason the GOP trumpets voter fraud is because they do not want you looking too closely at those machines and the software.

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