impeachment inquiry hearings thread

[Underdog 28868]

2 hours ago, triplehorn said:

Not a lawyer, but I gather it's pretty far along.  We're at SCOTUS level for Trump's tax returns for the parallel cases involving Mazars and the Manhattan DA.

Happening today:

should know more Monday.  but keep an eye out for another caravan to Walter Reed this weekend.

Let us all hope that Melania snuck in a DNR on his paperwork. 

[HenryJames 66277]

41 minutes ago, Tuco said:

That WSJ article is a clear demonstration of how far a fine newspaper has fallen under Murdoch.  What complete horseshit.  

The WSJ editorial page has always been complete bonkers. I don't think they even read their own paper's reporting.

Edited November 22, 2019 by HenryJames

[cactusflinthead 27615]

2 hours ago, Mo Horn said:

Nah, this would gain him votes.

 

2 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

Wouldn’t move the needle.

What’s a dead Russian hooker to a bunch of mobsters? Garbage.

True. I just liked the headline. One of those newsy things that makes me think about this place. 

 

[DixonHur 11596]

2 hours ago, triplehorn said:

Not a lawyer, but I gather it's pretty far along.  We're at SCOTUS level for Trump's tax returns for the parallel cases involving Mazars and the Manhattan DA.

Happening today:

should know more Monday.  but keep an eye out for another caravan to Walter Reed this weekend.

Live look at Maxine Waters...

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

37 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

WSJ editorial.

On that score, readers who have lives to lead can save time by reading Senator Ron Johnson’s account. The Wisconsin Republican has taken a personal interest in Ukraine since he joined the Senate in 2011, and in a Nov. 18 letter to House Intelligence Members he explains what he saw and heard at the White House and on visits to Ukraine. Of course Senator Ron Johnson has taken a personal interest in Ukraine. After all, the NRA has been cozy with Russian banker Alexander Torshin since then. Torshin is the bloke who attended all those NRA conventions oh, what's that timeline? Yeah, 2011 through 2016. Torshin is pals with Maria Butina. Gee, where is she now? Enjoying her ticker tape parade in Moscow? Who was number three on the NRA donor recipient list in 2016? Ron Johnson. How quickly we forget that Ron Johnson was alleged to have coordinated with the NRA and a shell corporation called Starboard to illegally funnel money from Russia. Russia and Ukraine are on such good terms you know. Mr. Johnson, is very fond of the "both sides have very good people." In Ukraine's case, some of those very good people are pro-Russia and happen to be very rich. I'm sure they are good people, though. 

Mr. Johnson relates how he returned from Mr. Zelensky’s inaugural to brief Mr. Trump and discovered how hostile the President was to Ukraine. Mr. Johnson supported military aid and thought Mr. Zelensky, as a newly elected President, could do much to reduce corruption. The Senator spent the next months working with others, inside and outside the Administration, to change the President’s mind. I cannot for the life of me understand why the President would be hostile to Ukraine. I'm sure that attempts that had thus far been unsuccessful to place his own guy on Naftogaz had nothing to do with it, never mind the whole obsession with the Bidens. I mean the fellow they were trying to oust from the board was known for his anti-corruption stance and after all the President is so, like, anti-corruption, right?

Eventually he prevailed, and the aid was released on Sept. 11. Mr. Johnson says Mr. Trump called him on Aug. 31 and told him, “Ron, I understand your position. We’re reviewing it now, and you’ll probably like my final decision.” This matters because Democrats claim Mr. Trump released the aid only because they were on the impeachment trail. I'm not even. Ron Johnson is so believable here. The whistleblower initially filed the complaint on the 12 of August and heaven knows that all of Washington has ears, so sure Ron. We understand.

“To my knowledge, most members of the administration and Congress dealing with the issues involving Ukraine disagreed with President Trump’s attitude and approach toward Ukraine,” Mr. Johnson writes. “Many who had the opportunity and ability to influence the president attempted to change his mind. I see nothing wrong with U.S. officials working with Ukrainian officials to demonstrate Ukraine’s commitment to reform in order to change President Trump’s attitude and gain his support.” That's not quite what was going on here now was it?

Democrats might have advanced that cause with hearings and a censure resolution. Instead, they have opted for revealing the truth. Heaven help the Republic, if we choose to ignore it.

 

Bolds mine.

[wildcat09 29453]

27 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The WSJ opinion article seems to define the impeachment being over whether the president has the right to incompetently shape foreign policy or not. That is exactly what isn't being argued by the Dems.  Trump has a right to shape foreign policy whether he's right, wrong, competent, incompetent, whatever. There are political consequences for his policy but not impeachment itself.

But somehow, his administration got into their head that if the Ukrainians wanted that aid AND an Oval Office photoshoot, then they had to specifically investigate Hunter Biden and Burisma.  We don't know if Trump personally demanded this.  It's also possible that someone else on his staff/team made this decision based on what they assumed Trump wanted. 

We just don't know because the people that do, won't talk. 

A personal, political favor/demand isn't a foreign policy decision. It's abuse of power which is open to impeachment.

 

 

Yes we do, it was in the memorandum of his call with Zelinsky that his own White House released.

[Paul Wesley 3299]

16 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

I am in the same boat.

Ronny was a God to me.  Although, at the time he was first elected President, I was only in 8th grade and by November of '84 I was not yet able to vote. I was young impressionable and manipulated by my parents.

But more than that, at the time, we had just gotten out of 'nam ('75), had been through 2 gas shortages, 20% interest rates, hostages in Iran, and Manhattan was burning nightly.  Carter was a good guy and a smart guy but seemed powerless in light of the conditions.

Reagan came along with his slick speech, down home letters,  and his balanced California budget, and it seemed like the second coming of FDR except as a Republican.

Really, without saying it, his slogan was MAGA. Except that he was actually somewhat competent, although lazy, and despite his other flaws, was a leader. His administrations still reverberate today for better or worse. 

So aside from the "deplorables" , there is still a sizable number of people my age and mostly older, that cannot shake this influence. It is like a religion they were taught as children that still holds sway over them.  Despite having the entirety of world history at their fingertips and more than enough time to explore they chose to be lazy and have their thoughts dictated to them.  

 

I'm a couple pages back in this fast-moving thread, but I wanted to respond to this.  

I'm pretty close to you in demographics, and I was also a child who echoed his parents' pro-Reagan stance, and who witnessed the release of the hostages on the day of Reagan's inauguration.  It really did feel like America suddenly was great again - no longer a literal hostage to a small Middle East theocracy.

The older I get, though, the more I see Reagan's poisonous influence on American thinking.  Specifically, his repeated refrains of "Government IS the problem!"

That belief promotes cynicism toward our government and encourages voter apathy.  And voter apathy allows interested parties (i.e. big Pharma, the banks, insurance companies, energy companies) to have completely bought and paid for the legislative branch of government.  And that corporate takeover of Congress has promoted the astounding success of the richest 1% while the middle class withers away.  Such inequality is unsustainable.  

"Government IS the problem" leads people to generally support the idea that ALL regulation is bad.  It ignores the fundamental fact that government regulation is what prevents wholesale financial fraud with companies like Enron and WorldCom.  Government regulation is what keeps companies from dumping mercury into the rivers and spewing poisons into the air.  Government regulation is the only thing that keeps insurance companies from denying your cancer treatment. 

And now, under Trump, we see "Government IS the problem" taken to its most extreme.  We have an executive branch who has appointed leadership that is hostile to the very mission of each department.  We have the utterly unqualified child of a pyramid-scheme billionaire who is hostile to the idea of public education -- now SHE is who's in charge of education.  We have a similarly unqualified HUD secretary hostile to the idea of helping low-income families get housing.  We have a buffoon as energy secretary - someone who was too fucking stupid to remember the name of the department that he recently thought a good idea to eliminate.  I could go on.  

Finally, this government-hostile executive branch is appointing judges who are friendly to the ideas and beliefs of a hyper-religious minority, and friendly to the ideas of the same big corporations that have taken over the legislative branch.

And I know this sounds really crazy -- but I want safe transportation, I want public schools that educate children, I want low- and middle-income families to work with dignity and afford housing, I want a stock market that isn't completely rigged, I want the Department of Energy to safeguard nuclear weapons and nuclear waste, I want rivers that aren't filled with carcinogens, I want healthcare that isn't impossibly expensive.  

If you really, actually want America to be great, then you ought to be taking actions that promote effective and efficient government. 

If Reagan thought government was the problem, I wonder what he'd think now about the thoroughly incompetent and profoundly corrupt millionaires and billionaires who are systematically dismantling it, all with the GOP's enthusiastic blessing.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Paul Wesley

[Tuco 5084]

41 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

The WSJ opinion article seems to define the impeachment being over whether the president has the right to incompetently shape foreign policy or not. That is exactly what isn't being argued by the Dems.  Trump has a right to shape foreign policy whether he's right, wrong, competent, incompetent, whatever. There are political consequences for his policy but not impeachment itself.

....

A personal, political favor/demand isn't a foreign policy decision. It's abuse of power which is open to impeachment.

 

The whole "The President can remove an Ambassador for any reason" and "the President can set any foreign policy for any reason" need huge blinking, neon, asterisks.   He can do either of these for any reason within the bounds of his professional duties. These are official acts.  He can not do them for personal gain.  Taking those basic concepts out of that context excuses literally anything.  Under the current law, the President can bomb a foreign country.  Because Congress has long abdicated their duties, he pretty much has that right.  But he can't go bomb London because Biden is visiting the Queen. He can pardon anyone he wants.  But he can't do it because they offer him a million dollars. Even when the President is given great flexibility to execute his duties, he still needs to work within in the bounds of what those duties are.  

[Biff Tannen 45763]

7 minutes ago, Tuco said:

The whole "The President can remove an Ambassador for any reason" and "the President can set any foreign policy for any reason" need huge blinking, neon, asterisks.   He can do either of these for any reason within the bounds of his professional duties. These are official acts.  He can not do them for personal gain.  Taking those basic concepts out of that context excuses literally anything.  Under the current law, the President can bomb a foreign country.  Because Congress has long abdicated their duties, he pretty much has that right.  But he can't go bomb London because Biden is visiting the Queen. He can pardon anyone he wants.  But he can't do it because they offer him a million dollars. Even when the President is given great flexibility to execute his duties, he still needs to work within in the bounds of what those duties are.  

R voters don't give a fuck.  Which is the problem.  They are traitors.

[wildcat09 29453]

9 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

I'm a couple pages back in this fast-moving thread, but I wanted to respond to this.  

I'm pretty close to you in demographics, and I was also a child who echoed his parents' pro-Reagan stance, and who witnessed the release of the hostages on the day of Reagan's inauguration.  It really did feel like America suddenly was great again - no longer a literal hostage to a small Middle East theocracy.

The older I get, though, the more I see Reagan's poisonous influence on American thinking.  Specifically, his repeated refrains of "Government IS the problem!"

That belief promotes cynicism toward our government and encourages voter apathy.  And voter apathy allows interested parties (i.e. big Pharma, the banks, insurance companies, energy companies) to have completely bought and paid for the legislative branch of government.  And that corporate takeover of Congress has promoted the astounding success of the richest 1% while the middle class withers away.  Such inequality is unsustainable.  

"Government IS the problem" leads people to generally support the idea that ALL regulation is bad.  It ignores the fundamental fact that government regulation is what prevents wholesale financial fraud with companies like Enron and WorldCom.  Government regulation is what keeps companies from dumping mercury into the rivers and spewing poisons into the air.  Government regulation is the only thing that keeps insurance companies from denying your cancer treatment. 

And now, under Trump, we see "Government IS the problem" taken to its most extreme.  We have an executive branch who has appointed leadership that is hostile to the very mission of each department.  We have the utterly unqualified child of a pyramid-scheme billionaire who is hostile to the idea of public education -- now SHE is who's in charge of education.  We have a similarly unqualified HUD secretary hostile to the idea of helping low-income families get housing.  We have a buffoon as energy secretary - someone who was too fucking stupid to remember the name of the department that he recently thought a good idea to eliminate.  I could go on.  

Finally, this government-hostile executive branch is appointing judges who are friendly to the ideas and beliefs of a hyper-religious minority, and friendly to the ideas of the same big corporations that have taken over the legislative branch.

And I know this sounds really crazy -- but I want safe transportation, I want public schools that educate children, I want low- and middle-income families to work with dignity and afford housing, I want a stock market that isn't completely rigged, I want the Department of Energy to safeguard nuclear weapons and nuclear waste, I want rivers that aren't filled with carcinogens, I want healthcare that isn't impossibly expensive.  

If you really, actually want America to be great, then you ought to be taking actions that promote effective and efficient government. 

If Reagan thought government was the problem, I wonder what he'd think now about the thoroughly incompetent and profoundly corrupt millionaires and billionaires who are systematically dismantling it, all with the GOP's enthusiastic blessing.

I'm pretty sure he'd happily support it. The dirty secret about Reagan is that he was actually a stupid asshole who was really awful in nearly every possible way. Carter's White House got the hostages released, and would have sooner if Reagan's campaign hadn't ratfucked them so he could take credit for it.

The only difference between Reagan and Trump is that Reagan had the good sense to read some feel good speeches sometimes and Twitter didn't exist yet so it was a lot easier for his White House to hide his racism, stupidity, and increasing dementia from the public. 

[Dbeasy 15225]

and in a completely different alternate universe....
https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3077687
 
 
You all are naive to think people dug in are going to change

This is stunning and depressing all at the same time.

[David Dennison 19117]

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

4 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

 

I touched upon that in parts of the WSJ article above.  Money. A whole lot of it. #WhatHappenedGOP

[Eastwood 4394]

12 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

 

Occam's Razor: Lindsey is a full of shit psychopath. He soaked up the spotlight as McCain's best buddy after McCain died then left Trump piss on McCain's grave.

[Captainant 27970]

Just now, Eastwood said:

Occam's Razor: Lindsey is a full of shit psychopath. He soaked up the spotlight as McCain's best buddy after McCain died then left Trump piss on McCain's grave.

Don't forget his 2016 Daily Show interview in which he was actually charming and appealing as a senator

He's a completely different person after a few short years of mainlining trump

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

12 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

 

This is stunning and depressing all at the same time.

 

That board is bad enough that I've decided I can't let my kids go there.  I try to excuse it any way I can -- it is not representative, it is an echo chamber, you know good Aggies right now so don't use that as a baseline, whatever -- but none of my own arguments are very persuasive to me.  There are just so damn many people on there that knowingly and intentionally are willing to lie and distort the truth.  Either that or they just continue to ride the dark green line with no curiosity at all why anyone else that has demonstrated the ability to think has been jumping ship.

 

 

 

[Jiggy-Z 3467]

14 minutes ago, Paul Wesley said:

I'm a couple pages back in this fast-moving thread, but I wanted to respond to this.  

I'm pretty close to you in demographics, and I was also a child who echoed his parents' pro-Reagan stance, and who witnessed the release of the hostages on the day of Reagan's inauguration.  It really did feel like America suddenly was great again - no longer a literal hostage to a small Middle East theocracy.

The older I get, though, the more I see Reagan's poisonous influence on American thinking.  Specifically, his repeated refrains of "Government IS the problem!"

That belief promotes cynicism toward our government and encourages voter apathy.  And voter apathy allows interested parties (i.e. big Pharma, the banks, insurance companies, energy companies) to have completely bought and paid for the legislative branch of government.  And that corporate takeover of Congress has promoted the astounding success of the richest 1% while the middle class withers away.  Such inequality is unsustainable.  

"Government IS the problem" leads people to generally support the idea that ALL regulation is bad.  It ignores the fundamental fact that government regulation is what prevents wholesale financial fraud with companies like Enron and WorldCom.  Government regulation is what keeps companies from dumping mercury into the rivers and spewing poisons into the air.  Government regulation is the only thing that keeps insurance companies from denying your cancer treatment. 

And now, under Trump, we see "Government IS the problem" taken to its most extreme.  We have an executive branch who has appointed leadership that is hostile to the very mission of each department.  We have the utterly unqualified child of a pyramid-scheme billionaire who is hostile to the idea of public education -- now SHE is who's in charge of education.  We have a similarly unqualified HUD secretary hostile to the idea of helping low-income families get housing.  We have a buffoon as energy secretary - someone who was too fucking stupid to remember the name of the department that he recently thought a good idea to eliminate.  I could go on.  

Finally, this government-hostile executive branch is appointing judges who are friendly to the ideas and beliefs of a hyper-religious minority, and friendly to the ideas of the same big corporations that have taken over the legislative branch.

And I know this sounds really crazy -- but I want safe transportation, I want public schools that educate children, I want low- and middle-income families to work with dignity and afford housing, I want a stock market that isn't completely rigged, I want the Department of Energy to safeguard nuclear weapons and nuclear waste, I want rivers that aren't filled with carcinogens, I want healthcare that isn't impossibly expensive.  

If you really, actually want America to be great, then you ought to be taking actions that promote effective and efficient government. 

If Reagan thought government was the problem, I wonder what he'd think now about the thoroughly incompetent and profoundly corrupt millionaires and billionaires who are systematically dismantling it, all with the GOP's enthusiastic blessing.

Right.  ...and like any effective message, there was some truth to it at the time and always, it is not perfect. 

I get extremely irritated at civil employees on occasion.  Not because I think they are corrupt, but because they are being lazy or apathetic or place a burden on me that is their responsibility. So that is something I think most people can identify with and it drives home the notion that "Government is the problem".

Likewise we have all heard the story of the $400 DOD hammer or toilet.  We all shake our heads and criticize those in govt that allowed this to happen mostly because it makes us feel better about ourselves.  But in reality, the awarded contractor (ie big defense contractor) is equally responsible.  Also, if you are not  intimately involved with the production of such items or government work in general you have a poor frame of reference for the costs of these items, especially if you are comparing them to what you would pay at a hardware store.

Many a head has been shaken at the cost of Federal construction projects, most notably buildings.  We shake our heads at buildings costing $1000/sqft when compare them to a tract home costing less than $100/sqft without any regard for the permanence, quality of construction, civic pride, useful life,  and unique functions such a structure offers.  I could go on.

My point is that we are generally receptive to the idea if we chose to look no further than our own interests or limited experiences.

[DixonHur 11596]

So Lev Parnas' attorney is on Twitter to saying Lev has "hard evidence" against Trump.  Can't figure out how to attach Tweets, so here's a link

https://twitter.com/josephabondy/status/1197758060607000576

 

[Bruh Man 3160]

Despicable....

 

 

[Biff Tannen 45763]

20 minutes ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

I touched upon that in parts of the WSJ article above.  Money. A whole lot of it. #WhatHappenedGOP

Specifically foreign money funneled through the NRA.  

[Horn Dog 10026]

20 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

 

The human mind in flawed, especially as it ages.  It is a flawed computer that has absolutely no reference point and therefore no concept of how out of spec it is as time goes on.   It is designed to protect the self concept/ego  at any costs.  To this end it will distort any input to fit the needed narrative.   It thinks it knows what it see's, hears, and feels, but it is all through an extensive subconscious filter designed to protect it's own self worth.  It is susceptible to manipulation and has extremely strong primal triggers such as 'fear', 'threat' and 'tribe' which make it even less able to process or accept unexpected data...therefore that data is discarded.  Fox News is what happened.  It strategically targeted every flaw in the human brain.  It short-circuited people like Graham, and the GOP is general, from what was once a reasonable thinking pattern into where they are now, full of fear and desperately trying to preserve the self.

[4th&Five 41701]

Just now, Bruh Man said:

Despicable....

 

 

That probably would have been all over the news before Trump.  Now it's the least offensive thing the GOP will do today.

[Biff Tannen 45763]

4 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Despicable....

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Horn Dog said:

The human mind in flawed, especially as it ages.  It is a flawed computer that has absolutely no reference point and therefore no concept of how out of spec it is as time goes on.   It is designed to protect the self concept/ego  at any costs.  To this end it will distort any input to fit the needed narrative.   It thinks it knows what it see's, hears, and feels, but it is all through an extensive subconscious filter designed to protect it's own self worth.  It is susceptible to manipulation and has extremely strong primal triggers such as 'fear', 'threat' and 'tribe' which make it even less able to process or accept unexpected data...therefore that data is discarded.  Fox News is what happened.  It strategically targeted every flaw in the human brain.  It short-circuited people like Graham, and the GOP is general, from what was once a reasonable thinking pattern into where they are now, full of fear and desperately trying to preserve the self.

The above video proves to me that Graham is not short-circuited by Fox News, et al.  If he were, he would have stayed and tried to defend himself.  Instead he ran away because he knows he is wrong.  He is beholden to power and his fear of losing that power.  There is something that someone has on him and many other Rs in congress.  

[RomaVicta 30072]

4 hours ago, cactusflinthead said:

 

It took me a moment to understand this, but it's apt. Kompromat and criminality are likely rife in the GOP.

[DixonHur 11596]

7 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Despicable....

 

 

To be fair, Jeff Key's bio says he's a "queer civil rights activist"...perhaps Lindsey recognized him from The Manhole and was afraid of being outed.

[shnsajax 3592]

40 minutes ago, Dbeasy said:

 

This is stunning and depressing all at the same time.

 

Deplorables was putting it nicely 3+ years ago. 

[JFKFC 4942]

Republican's in congress have sold their souls. I have no optimism. The Republic is lost.

 

Trump will get re-elected. 

 

Don Jr will win the Presidency in 2024 (I'm not kidding).

 

Things will get so much worse. Enjoy today. You will miss days like today.

[Mapache 1117]

 

[atomheartbevo 90041]

Lev wanting to talk to Schiff.

 

[atomheartbevo 90041]

6 minutes ago, Mapache said:

 

Bolton not happy with the White House.

 

[Mapache 1117]

1 minute ago, atomheartbevo said:

Bolton not happy with the White House.

 

 

[Bruh Man 3160]

Putin is toying with our country right now. 

 

[triplehorn 2664]

4 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Lev wanting to talk to Schiff.

 

Right now, I’m more interested to know what Parnas can testify to about his business with Nunes than Trump/Giuliani.

So much of what is helping prop up the GOP cover-up illusion is the tenuous firewall between the WH and Congress re Russia matters.  There are multiple potential points of breach into Congress related to Russian cash and coordination.  Having the indicted mob-linked Ukrainian Parnas finger Devin would be big and shift the scales of R credibility during impeachment.

[4th&Five 41701]

He literally says "it was trending number one!" as some sort of proof.  

[wildcat09 29453]

38 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

It took me a moment to understand this, but it's apt. Kompromat and criminality are likely rife in the GOP.

Nicole Wallace thinks the GOP would give a shit about a dead Russian hooker? They're the ones that would kill the Russian hooker.

[Chad Fuck 17839]

3 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

Putin is toying with our country right now. 

 

If we get out of this mess, job #1 for new POTUS has to be to take this kind of shit out.  

[SmokeyTheBear 5569]

6 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

If we get out of this mess, job #1 for new POTUS has to be to take this kind of shit out.  

Rebuild the international coalition to unify the world against Russia and China. They are running largely unchecked right now and it will take decades to recoup the gains they have made during the past 3 years.  

[RomaVicta 30072]

6 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Nicole Wallace thinks the GOP would give a shit about a dead Russian hooker? They're the ones that would kill the Russian hooker.

I take it to mean that Putin used Russian hookers to get kompromat on the GOPs. The drowned hooker serves as metonymy for the hold that Russia has on the GOPs. At first, I was puzzled because I thought like you do.

I didn't see the original context, so maybe I'm wrong. My experience of Wallace is that she is sharper than I am, so I give her the benefit of the doubt.

[Chad Fuck 17839]

1 minute ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Rebuild the international coalition to unify the world against Russia and China. They are running largely unchecked right now and it will take decades to recoup the gains they have made during the past 3 years.  

[Bruh Man 3160]

5 minutes ago, SmokeyTheBear said:

Rebuild the international coalition to unify the world against Russia and China. They are running largely unchecked right now and it will take decades to recoup the gains they have made during the past 3 years.  

This right here, destroying decades of Pax Americana, is why I'm a little shocked the guys in black suits from the "deep state" haven't run a sweep on this administration yet. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Bruh Man

[Tuco 5084]

34 minutes ago, triplehorn said:

Right now, I’m more interested to know what Parnas can testify to about his business with Nunes than Trump/Giuliani.

So much of what is helping prop up the GOP cover-up illusion is the tenuous firewall between the WH and Congress re Russia matters.  There are multiple potential points of breach into Congress related to Russian cash and coordination.  Having the indicted mob-linked Ukrainian Parnas finger Devin would be big and shift the scales of R credibility during impeachment.

I am way more interested in learning about Lev's relationship with Giuliani and Trump.  With Nunes, I think it is likely that he was working with Giuliani on chasing down the imaginary Ukrainian interference, and so Rudy pointed him to people that could help.  I think Nunes is a grade-A moron, but I haven't read anything that makes me think there is something more sinister than that.  It does show that Nunes was engaged in the same bullshit that Rudy was, and that Rudy was directing him.  But it seems like Rudy was the focal point. With Rudy, there is cash flow.  There is access to the President.  There is the interference and direction of official acts. 

That being said, I don't think for a minute that Lev has really flipped.  If he was flipping, he'd be doing it quietly and looking for witness protection. He has way too much to lose in Ukraine to play rat to Firtash. It's not like Lev is staring at 30 years for a murder charge.  I think Firtash might be rattling Trump's cage, looking for the goods he has already made considerable payments on.  It's even possible Firtash has decided to fuck Trump after being stiffed. But, it's possible that Lev could be looking to provide misleading information to muddy the waters.  A couple of fake documents could do a lot to unwind public trust in the impeachment.  The Dems need to move forward with extreme caution. 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Tuco

[DigglerontheHoof 21273]

I predict Lev finds himself committing involuntary suicide in the very near future. 

[DixonHur 11596]

1 minute ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I predict Lev finds himself committing involuntary suicide in the very near future. 

Stay away from the grape kool-aid, Lev

[Nice Guy Eddie 13540]

If the Dems want to get the most of the impeachment hearings for either actual impeachment or poltiical gain in 2020, they need to distill their accusation/judgement to a handful of sentences. Then find a way to get on all of the networks and news channels including Fox News for a few minutes.

• The President was worried about Biden's #s in the polls
• He demanded a favor from Zelensky, and also ordered Giuliani and Sondland to continue these demands to Ukraine make up a damaging story about Biden via his son
• He illegally withheld $400m of US taxpayer money that both GOP and Dems in Congress wanted to go to Ukraine
• The Ukrainians knew the money was withheld and what was needed to be done to get it.
• Trump only released the funds when he was caught.

If there case has to be explained to the US public in 30+ minutes, people won't listen. Hell, my 5 bullet points might be too much.

[Chooky 13321]

11 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

Stay away from the grape kool-aid, Lev

Lev is the kool aid. He's safe. I'm sure he has a doozy of a dead man's first letter. 

Even if Parnas testified, it'd mean nothing. The defense would be that you can't trust people close to the President and his lawyer because they're all criminals. They would say that with a straight face. And it would work. 

[Mrs Whiggins 13050]

I’m torn because I have been advocating for Parnas, et al to be summoned, but you all raise some solid counter arguments for why that could be ill-advised. 

Same with Bolton, though. Like the rest, am pretty sure he’s got the skinny but a) he’s not nonpartisan and b) he’s got his PAC endorsing some sketchy candidates on his PAC website. 

Lying under oath means something to me but I’m not sure it does to them. 

 

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2687]

2 hours ago, DixonHur said:

So Lev Parnas' attorney is on Twitter to saying Lev has "hard evidence" against Trump.  Can't figure out how to attach Tweets, so here's a link

https://twitter.com/josephabondy/status/1197758060607000576

 

https://twitter.com/DevinCojones/status/1197919422595424256?s=20

I hope he doesn't get transferred to the Metropolitan Correctional Facility's Epstein Suite.

Edited November 22, 2019 by ChuckNorrisActionJeans

[bad_teammate 13299]

Lev frantically searching "hyoid bone support" on Google.

[cactusflinthead 27615]

Hmm. I wonder where @GRHorn with this WSJ piece?

 

[Brisketexan 105569]

4 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

But somehow, his administration got into their head that if the Ukrainians wanted that aid AND an Oval Office photoshoot, then they had to specifically investigate Hunter Biden and Burisma.

The bolded is false.  And the thing that makes it false is what makes it important.

Ukraine didn't have to investigate Biden and Burisma.  They only had to ANNOUNCE the investigation.  The verb matters.  That verb distinction tells us that in no way was this about corruption.  Rather it was ONLY about public perception, which is a political goal.

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's a very disassociated feeling.  A "stateless person."

You're not stateless.  You are aligned against a hostile power called Trumpism.  There's a shitload of us.  Get on board.  Fight hard. Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?

3 hours ago, Paul Wesley said:

"Government IS the problem" leads people to generally support the idea that ALL regulation is bad.  It ignores the fundamental fact that government regulation is what prevents wholesale financial fraud with companies like Enron and WorldCom.  Government regulation is what keeps companies from dumping mercury into the rivers and spewing poisons into the air.  Government regulation is the only thing that keeps insurance companies from denying your cancer treatment. 

And now, under Trump, we see "Government IS the problem" taken to its most extreme.  We have an executive branch who has appointed leadership that is hostile to the very mission of each department.  We have the utterly unqualified child of a pyramid-scheme billionaire who is hostile to the idea of public education -- now SHE is who's in charge of education.  We have a similarly unqualified HUD secretary hostile to the idea of helping low-income families get housing.  We have a buffoon as energy secretary - someone who was too fucking stupid to remember the name of the department that he recently thought a good idea to eliminate.  I could go on.  

Finally, this government-hostile executive branch is appointing judges who are friendly to the ideas and beliefs of a hyper-religious minority, and friendly to the ideas of the same big corporations that have taken over the legislative branch.

And I know this sounds really crazy -- but I want safe transportation, I want public schools that educate children, I want low- and middle-income families to work with dignity and afford housing, I want a stock market that isn't completely rigged, I want the Department of Energy to safeguard nuclear weapons and nuclear waste, I want rivers that aren't filled with carcinogens, I want healthcare that isn't impossibly expensive.  

Bravo.

3 hours ago, Tuco said:

The whole "The President can remove an Ambassador for any reason" and "the President can set any foreign policy for any reason" need huge blinking, neon, asterisks.   He can do either of these for any reason within the bounds of his professional duties. These are official acts.  He can not do them for personal gain.

Here's an easy way to think about it -- say this out loud, Republicans:

"The President can remove an Ambassador because:

1) the Ambassador won't make a personal gift to him of $1,000,000

2) the Ambassador refused to appoint the President's daughter as "Assistant Ambassador for handbags"

3) the Ambassador refused to solicit payments from a foreign country to the president

4) the Ambassador refused to ask a foreign power to kill an American who insulted the president next time that American visited the country

5) the Ambassador refused to solicit a foreign country's sabotage of an American political party's computer system

6) the Ambassador refused to solicit the statement of a foreign country that it was investigating the opposing political party's nominee

We can do this all day.  There's fucking PLENTY of circumstances where the president's action would constitute an illegal act.  It might be bribery.  It might be a campaign violation.  IT might be murder.  All are laws.  All are broken by the listed actions.

What we know is....the GOP doesn't care.  Make no mistake, there is only one law in the mind of the GOP: if the GOP does it, it's legal.